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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#1601 SunnyENTP

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:44

Can't believe they haven't used soft tyres yet, (for proper running I mean, I have no idea if they've used them for installation laps).


I think to really understand the car and tyres u need milage and these soft cheese tyres wont help



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#1602 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:54

Can't believe they haven't used soft tyres yet, (for proper running I mean, I have no idea if they've used them for installation laps).


• The morning programme focused on data gathering and set-up adjustments
• This afternoon, Nico concentrated on longer runs with the hard and medium tyres
• Nico ran soft, medium and hard compound tyres during the day's programme
• His fastest lap of 1:22.611 was completed on the medium tyre on lap one of a seven-lap run


"We didn't have a perfect morning and it was tough out there with the low temperatures. They were causing a lot of tyre graining, which made it difficult to do much useful testing. It was a few degrees warmer after the break and that gave a completely different picture.
In general, I'm pleased with what we've achieved this week - I did a lot of mileage and the team has done a good job over the winter. I feel more comfortable in the car and the balance is quite good, but we still need to work in a number of areas. That's why I'm looking forward to testing next week and to see what progress we can make."


http://www.mercedes-...-test-day-three

They still look to be in reasonable shape. The car looks good, they work methodically in a way I haven't seen them so far. That in itself should be a good sign. They are constantly developing a car, no day passes without seeing something added and evaluated. That is another good sign. They seem to be ok with the tyres, some setup changes they made seem to pay off, today we have seen reasonable consistency, on par with any team, at least. Decent speed seems to be there too. They had two steady days, with no obvious problems. personally, I couldn't ask for more, honestly. This is a different team to last season, so far. If they are able to mix it with the front-runners, I will be fascinated. Let's see how it goes.

#1603 akshay380

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:57

Rosberg on today:

"Definitely progress from last year and for sure we are going to be closer to the top guys," he said. "That's important because it's going in the right direction. The team has done a really good job over the winter and it really looks like all their hard work and effort has been worthwhile. It's a pleasure to drive at the moment because the balance is quite good and there are a lot of positives."

"Of course we need to improve reliability because we are having a few issues, but it's nothing major," he added. "What's also looking good is our development rate at the moment. That was our weakness last year and that's what we really have to improve and that's going in the right direction too. There all these factors which are going well at the moment but are not quite there yet."

:up: :up:

#1604 Markn93

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 17:59

Can't argue with that.

Do we know which runs were with the soft tyre then? Pretty sure it would have been this morning, don't recall one this afternoon. And my surprise was predicated more on the fact that I didn't think you could go through 3 days of testing with hardly using a type of tyre as opposed to criticising them for it. Im sure they know what they're doing.

#1605 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 18:06

Can't argue with that.

Do we know which runs were with the soft tyre then? Pretty sure it would have been this morning, don't recall one this afternoon. And my surprise was predicated more on the fact that I didn't think you could go through 3 days of testing with hardly using a type of tyre as opposed to criticising them for it. Im sure they know what they're doing.


I don't think they ran softs on any stint. Webber seems to have run only mediums today, for instance. I see some logic in going through a day with one type of rubber mostly, since they are crucial this season, and testing time is pretty limited. I think the mediums will be the most used rubbers throughout the season?(not sure though). They map the tyres, and map setups/compound this way. Sounds ok to me.

http://f1fullthrottl...elo-2013-dia-3/


#1606 Markn93

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 18:09

That's what I thought but then you posted this,

• Nico ran soft, medium and hard compound tyres during the day's programme

I thought you were saying they had in fact used them.



#1607 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 18:13

That's what I thought but then you posted this,

• Nico ran soft, medium and hard compound tyres during the day's programme

I thought you were saying they had in fact used them.


well, I assume that means that at some point today, presumably before the break, there were softs on the car, since that is Merc's own statement. I really don't know when though.

edit: by 'not on stints' I meant not for more than one-two laps.

Edited by Szoelloe, 21 February 2013 - 18:15.


#1608 mlsnoopy

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 18:56

I think that so far all the correct signals are coming from the team. It's on.

#1609 CHIUNDA

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:51

Can you tell that a football team will win the Champions League by how they train? I guess the same goes for Formula One testing.

#1610 Markn93

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:55

Can you tell that a football team will win the Champions League by how they train? I guess the same goes for Formula One testing.

Awful comparison, for many reasons which would all be very off topic.

#1611 senna da silva

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:08

Continuing to be cautiously optimistic. Another good haul of laps for the Merc and some relative consistency in lap times.

#1612 MP422

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:12

Continuing to be cautiously optimistic. Another good haul of laps for the Merc and some relative consistency in lap times.


So now you believe that Mercedes is gonna win the WCC/WDC ?

#1613 senna da silva

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:26

So now you believe that Mercedes is gonna win the WCC/WDC ?


No way. I'd be extremely happy with a 5th place finish for Lewis or Nico in Oz.
RBR, Mac, Ferrari, and Lotus are all going to be strong.

#1614 bauss

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:38

No way. I'd be extremely happy with a 5th place finish for Lewis or Nico in Oz.
RBR, Mac, Ferrari, and Lotus are all going to be strong.


it depends....no need to sell them short or aim too high.

at the moment, I'm not seeing great pace from anyone (in high fuel runs and race sims, the better judge of competitiveness)... so if the team does a very good job, and knowing how crazy Aus can be.... we might be disappointed not to have a podium when it unfolds.

On the flip side, all those cars could be significantly stronger... its hard to tell.

What is not bad so far though, is that from what we've seen in testing, there continues to be the possibility of hope... which is pretty good.

Edited by bauss, 21 February 2013 - 20:41.


#1615 MP422

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:51

What are peoples opinions on Mercedes pit work ? Have they been working on that too ?

#1616 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:56

What are peoples opinions on Mercedes pit work ? Have they been working on that too ?

We dont really get much information concerning that. I'm sure every team is working on it, though.

#1617 SunnyENTP

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 20:59

it depends....no need to sell them short or aim too high.

at the moment, I'm not seeing great pace from anyone (in high fuel runs and race sims, the better judge of competitiveness)... so if the team does a very good job, and knowing how crazy Aus can be.... we might be disappointed not to have a podium when it unfolds.

On the flip side, all those cars could be significantly stronger... its hard to tell.

What is not bad so far though, is that from what we've seen in testing, there continues to be the possibility of hope... which is pretty good.


The first races would mirror those of last year. Merc need consistencyband if they have this they can stay in the hunt. Whst happens in Europe is another isdue. The one encouraging thing about Merc unlike other seasons is that they now have a good base they can work on unlike other seasons.

#1618 Kvothe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:06

What are peoples opinions on Mercedes pit work ? Have they been working on that too ?


I think this is genuinely one area that LH could actually be of some benefit to Mercedes in 2013. I'm sure he would have been very intimate with the processes and ideas McLaren introduced especially in part because of the disruption to his WDC campaign in the first part of the season caused by various pit issues, and with the gains McLaren made last season and some of the information (ideas, processes ect) I wouldn't be surprised if Merc at the start of the season were operating near enough at the same level. Of course this presupposes that Mercedes may not have already adopted their own solutions to catch up, but with the changes in the organisation, both internally, operationally and with a completely new car, driver its hard to think they could have specialised on this issue as much as already settled and established teams such as McLaren, Red bull ect.

#1619 BigCHrome

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:50

I think overall the tests have went quite well. Looking at lap times, I can't say that they've looked inferior to anyone else at any point this week.

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#1620 Peter Perfect

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:53

No way. I'd be extremely happy with a 5th place finish for Lewis or Nico in Oz.
RBR, Mac, Ferrari, and Lotus are all going to be strong.

Given their consistency of pace during testing so far I think anything other than a podium would be a complete failure for Mercedes and Hamilton. Just IMHO though.

#1621 BernieEc

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:56

Quote : James Allen

Nico Rosberg and Mercedes spent much of the morning gathering data without setting any competitive times, but later used a set of mediums to get within 7/10ths of the overall best. Interestingly, and as like Lewis Hamilton yesterday, it was set at the beginning of a seven lap run with a high fuel load relative to the one-lap runners.

It seems at this point, when comparing long runs on the same tyre, that Mercedes and Lotus are very closely matched. Rosberg looked to be running faster during their stints but Grosjean had a heavier fuel load as he completed his race simulation in the afternoon. When Grosjean came to the final stint of his race sim, and with a lower fuel load, his pace matched that of Rosberg earlier in the day.

That will be pleasing for Mercedes as the W04 has got to grips with this years Pirellis better than it has in the previous two years and they can compete with Lotus, who were particularly good at making their tyres last in 2012.


Edit: forgot to insert the usual caveat (its only testing)

Edited by BernieEc, 21 February 2013 - 21:57.


#1622 Shiroo

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 21:58

Given their consistency of pace during testing so far I think anything other than a podium would be a complete failure for Mercedes and Hamilton. Just IMHO though.

lul. And you asume that from preseason test, while their last race was so horrible that they were battling TR? Sweet jesus, qualifying in Q3 for Mercedes will be a good result considering so competitve grid with RBR, MCLaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Sauber, Williams and even Force India. Don't get that high expectations, Mercedes needed to made a brand new car almost cause their old one was terrible, while top 4 teams were just doing an evolution. also Sauber looks amazing as well, so jumping to guns with podium is a bit overkill.

#1623 Peter Perfect

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:04

lul. And you asume that from preseason test, while their last race was so horrible that they were battling TR? Sweet jesus, qualifying in Q3 for Mercedes will be a good result considering so competitve grid with RBR, MCLaren, Ferrari, Lotus, Sauber, Williams and even Force India. Don't get that high expectations, Mercedes needed to made a brand new car almost cause their old one was terrible, while top 4 teams were just doing an evolution. also Sauber looks amazing as well, so jumping to guns with podium is a bit overkill.

You're quite right. In retrospect it was an utterly ridiculous thing to write.

#1624 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:10

Re: James Allen's analysis:

I did think that Rosberg's long runs looked much like a 'last stint' sort of simulation. Basically, low-to-mid fuel levels, trying to run the tires out as long as possible to see how they last in case of a situation like Red Bull and Ferrari faced in Canada last year, where they tried to run to the end but ended up having to make a very costly last pitstop.

Hard to say, though. There could be anywhere from 25%-75% fuel onboard.



#1625 BernieEc

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:11

Given their consistency of pace during testing so far I think anything other than a podium would be a complete failure for Mercedes and Hamilton. Just IMHO though.


No need to come dump the swingometer in here. if they do well with podiums I will be extremely happy. The expectation is fighting for 4th. Mercedes knew this was a transition year and have not built up any unnecessary expectations beyond that. Yes we all love a fairytale and would want the Merc to blitz the field, one thing I have noticed is that the Merc fans are quite realistic in their targets and are not swayed by testing lap times. they are cautiously optimistic but tempered with a bit of realism from failures the years prior.

A target was set for this season (Toto mentioned 4th) and since its an evolutionary year with limited rule changes no one expected them to make a leap beyond that. if they do exceed expectations am sure the fans will be happy.

and I have seen quotes from you saying testing means nothing (here you base your logic on testing). interesting


#1626 Shiroo

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:12

You're quite right. In retrospect it was an utterly ridiculous thing to write.

well high hopes is good thing as well, but damn non-podium finish a failure is no no :) but still Mercedes (as far as I can see for now with all limited info) progressed well :) eventho not as a Mercedes fan (a bit fo Hamilton one though) it is good to see even more competitve grid

#1627 Peter Perfect

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:14

No need to come dump the swingometer in here. if they do well with podiums I will be extremely happy. The expectation is fighting for 4th. Mercedes knew this was a transition year and have not built up any unnecessary expectations beyond that. Yes we all love a fairytale and would want the Merc to blitz the field, one thing I have noticed is that the Merc fans are quite realistic in their targets and are not swayed by testing lap times. they are cautiously optimistic but tempered with a bit of realism from failures the years prior.

A target was set for this season (Toto mentioned 4th) and since its an evolutionary year with limited rule changes no one expected them to make a leap beyond that. if they do exceed expectations am sure the fans will be happy.

and I have seen quotes from you saying testing means nothing (here you base your logic on testing). interesting


I assume you missed my retraction a couple of posts above yours

You're quite right. In retrospect it was an utterly ridiculous thing to write.



#1628 BernieEc

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:14

Re: James Allen's analysis:

I did think that Rosberg's long runs looked much like a 'last stint' sort of simulation. Basically, low-to-mid fuel levels, trying to run the tires out as long as possible to see how they last in case of a situation like Red Bull and Ferrari faced in Canada last year, where they tried to run to the end but ended up having to make a very costly last pitstop.

Hard to say, though. There could be anywhere from 25%-75% fuel onboard.


you are right. and whenever he went into the pit, sometimes he was in there for 15-20 mins. Not something you would normally see in a race stint

#1629 OO7

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:15

Given their consistency of pace during testing so far I think anything other than a podium would be a complete failure for Mercedes and Hamilton. Just IMHO though.

:lol: By the way what about Rosberg?

#1630 BernieEc

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:15

I assume you missed my retraction a couple of posts above yours


I did.
I started typing before you replied, hence missed it

consider this a retraction from moi.



#1631 Shiroo

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:16

:lol: By the way what about Rosberg?

Still that's not the reason to laugh off someone point of view. it is good to by optimistic, maybe he will be right who knows? it is just, everyone shoudl take times nowdays and pace with a bit of salt

#1632 Kvothe

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:24

Still that's not the reason to laugh off someone point of view. it is good to by optimistic, maybe he will be right who knows? it is just, everyone shoudl take times nowdays and pace with a bit of salt


Woooosh

#1633 MP422

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:29

I think this is genuinely one area that LH could actually be of some benefit to Mercedes in 2013. I'm sure he would have been very intimate with the processes and ideas McLaren introduced especially in part because of the disruption to his WDC campaign in the first part of the season caused by various pit issues, and with the gains McLaren made last season and some of the information (ideas, processes ect) I wouldn't be surprised if Merc at the start of the season were operating near enough at the same level. Of course this presupposes that Mercedes may not have already adopted their own solutions to catch up, but with the changes in the organisation, both internally, operationally and with a completely new car, driver its hard to think they could have specialised on this issue as much as already settled and established teams such as McLaren, Red bull ect.



Good post !

#1634 BigCHrome

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 22:39

you are right. and whenever he went into the pit, sometimes he was in there for 15-20 mins. Not something you would normally see in a race stint


It doesn't really matter.

#1635 BernieEc

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 23:12

It doesn't really matter.


I think it might.

there could be a drop in tyre temp which will affect lap time
they could have changed tyres to another scrubbed set
adjusted a few other things they wouldn't normally do

#1636 BigCHrome

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 23:55

I think it might.

there could be a drop in tyre temp which will affect lap time
they could have changed tyres to another scrubbed set
adjusted a few other things they wouldn't normally do


They'd change the tires.

#1637 BernieEc

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 23:59

They'd change the tires.


you know what I mean.

#1638 eronrules

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 00:01

Can you tell that a football team will win the Champions League by how they train? I guess the same goes for Formula One testing.


that depends if their boots are made by Pirelli ...

#1639 Markn93

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 01:17

Wow, really positive comments from Nico - http://www1.skysport...runners-in-2013

Another vid -

Edited by Markn93, 22 February 2013 - 01:37.


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#1640 BigCHrome

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:09

you know what I mean.


I don't really see what you're trying to say.

If they put 140kg of fuel in the car and do 10 laps, then wheel the car back into the pits. 15 minutes later they go out with new tires but without changing the fuel load. The lap times wouldn't be different if they instead just did a normal simulation without going back into the pits.

#1641 CHIUNDA

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 03:35

I don't really see what you're trying to say.

If they put 140kg of fuel in the car and do 10 laps, then wheel the car back into the pits. 15 minutes later they go out with new tires but without changing the fuel load. The lap times wouldn't be different if they instead just did a normal simulation without going back into the pits.


Wouldn't the tire temperatures change the lap times? Last week IIRC James Allen alluded to a similar scenario where after a hot lap drivers would then slow down to cool the tires before continuing with a stint.

#1642 Sakae

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:15

As predicted...

DW | Business

...Maker of luxury vehicles and trucks, Daimler of Germany, announced on Thursday its supervisory board had extended the contract of the group's CEO, Dieter Zetsche, for three more years...


Edited by Sakae, 22 February 2013 - 08:22.


#1643 meddo

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:28

So, atleast two more years of stability for the F1 team. Which should start generate income or sustain itself.

#1644 BernieEc

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:28

Wouldn't the tire temperatures change the lap times? Last week IIRC James Allen alluded to a similar scenario where after a hot lap drivers would then slow down to cool the tires before continuing with a stint.


Thanks for explaining it :up:

#1645 BigCHrome

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:35

Wouldn't the tire temperatures change the lap times? Last week IIRC James Allen alluded to a similar scenario where after a hot lap drivers would then slow down to cool the tires before continuing with a stint.


They are pitting under both scenarios -> new tires with tire blankets.

#1646 windtravels

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:07

saw this in the testing thread:

AMuS ticker: "Rosberg here. I removed the useless journalist to give you some real infos." "Many teams are very close. We had a good long run yesterday. We are closer to the top than last year, but still not where we want to be as there is still a gap to the fastest cars."

#1647 SunnyENTP

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:13

saw this in the testing thread:

AMuS ticker: "Rosberg here. I removed the useless journalist to give you some real infos." "Many teams are very close. We had a good long run yesterday. We are closer to the top than last year, but still not where we want to be as there is still a gap to the fastest cars."



This makes perfect sense Please dont tell me people here were thinking Mercedes are a top 3 already. I would compare them to Lotus though. But not RB, McLaren and Ferrari.

#1648 femi

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:21

This makes perfect sense Please dont tell me people here were thinking Mercedes are a top 3 already. I would compare them to Lotus though. But not RB, McLaren and Ferrari.



I think people have reasons to be skeptic based on years of experience with the team. I am certainly not going to bet with a cent that even if Mclaren do have the fastest car, they will somehow still contrive to lose the war.

The Merc looks good and fast. The team had said they are looking to be at least the 4th best team this year and if you believe what you read, see and hear, they on course to achieving that.

This car is far undeveloped compared to the fastest cars but even in this state, they have clawed back a huge chunk of the gap that existed at the end of last season. They have a good base to develop the car into a front row challenger this year and I am looking forward to see how they do that.

It will be an entertaining season, the caveat is them damn cheessy tyres... :)

#1649 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:52

I think it's entirely possible that we are closer to the top then we are letting on, because I think the team doesn't want to lead into the season with a heap of expectation, similar to that of early last year after China, to then be crushed again if things don't work out.

#1650 micktosin

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 11:42

These medium sized stints with what looks like medium fuel loads are a real tease! Looks like we won't see a proper race sim from them until the final test. It's tempting to get over-excited by stints like that but I'm waiting until I can stack up an obvious race sim against one on the same day by a top-three team.

At least it's now clear after some Barca running that this year's car is no dog and has some real promise. :clap:

:up: Massive relieve! Hopefully we can challenge the top teams this year.