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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#1701 kedia990

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 14:49

It seems to be the case that Nico has a positive tone because the car is better than the last car he drove, W03; whereas Lewis has a negative tone because it isn't necessarily better than the last car he drove, MP4-27. Simple case of using different benchmarks, really.

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#1702 Markn93

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 14:50

Also the car is probably a lot more to Nicos liking atm, so he can drive it close to the guys at the front.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nico is ahead of Lewis for the first few races.

Maybe, but I see it as them looking at the same point, Lewis from above looking down and Nico from below looking up, based on last years experience.

#1703 Masenco

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 14:52

This bit sounds good, mind you:

Hamilton believes Mercedes' W04 currently holds a respectable position just behind the absolute frontrunners.

"It's a work in progress. We have stuff to add to it, stuff to work on, things that are better than what I have experienced, things that are not as good," he said.

"Downforce is not great but we have some updates. It's probably not fast enough to be the quickest but it's not slow, that's for sure."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105674

About as good as people hoped for before the season, well done Mercedes.


Sounds alot more positive :up:


#1704 sheepgobba

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 15:09

This bit sounds good, mind you:

Hamilton believes Mercedes' W04 currently holds a respectable position just behind the absolute frontrunners.

"It's a work in progress. We have stuff to add to it, stuff to work on, things that are better than what I have experienced, things that are not as good," he said.

"Downforce is not great but we have some updates. It's probably not fast enough to be the quickest but it's not slow, that's for sure."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105674

About as good as people hoped for before the season, well done Mercedes.


I think you summed it up well.

As initailly I found it puzzling that Rosberg was saying positive things about the car where as Lewis not so much but I didn't think of their respective contexts.

Edited by sheepgobba, 22 February 2013 - 15:13.


#1705 oligc94

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 15:18

I think you summed it up well.

As initailly I found it puzzling that Rosberg was saying positive things about the car where as Lewis not so much but I didn't think of their respective contexts.


Remember also that Rosberg hasn't experienced anything other than a Mercedes over the past couple of years, whereas Hamilton is comparing it to arguably the fastest car last season. They no doubt have different points of reference.

#1706 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 15:39

Having Mclaren as a reference is an amazing advantage for the team as the engineers will be given very precise feedback about where where the car is lacking and what parts or adjustments to prioritize.

#1707 Xeriks

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 15:53

Any explanation as to why Hamilton stopped on the track yet?

#1708 Maustinsj

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 15:59

Any explanation as to why Hamilton stopped on the track yet?


Try the testing thread

#1709 SR388

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:00

Any explanation as to why Hamilton stopped on the track yet?


Fuel run out test.

Fuel run out tests are completed by all the teams during testing to get an idea of how low they can go when putting low fuel in the car for qualifying. It's true that you shouldn't do the same in a road car and I suspect teams do it with old engines, but I don't actually know if it damages it. One reason not to run low in a road car is that the pump picks up all the dirt in the bottom of your fuel tank and fires it through the engine, which is not good. In F1 things are a little bit cleaner!



#1710 SmokeScreen

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:02

http://www.formule1....61530153.09.jpg :cool:
many thanks Jrg19


Having Mclaren as a reference is an amazing advantage for the team as the engineers will be given very precise feedback about where where the car is lacking and what parts or adjustments to prioritize.


This but he did mention it would be about 6 months before his feedback ;has an impact on the car.

While the car is getting sorted an opportunity for Race Operations AND Strategy to show their mettle?

Return of the Wily-Fox Brawn perchance but this time with a handful of disciples aka race engineers :smoking: ? Now that would be Awesome!!




#1711 boldhakka

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:02

Remember also that Rosberg hasn't experienced anything other than a Mercedes over the past couple of years, whereas Hamilton is comparing it to arguably the fastest car last season. They no doubt have different points of reference.


This is a great point, Lewis will certainly remember how the McLaren felt last year at CDC. Yes, conditions are different, but he'll be in an excellent position to judge relative differences in downforce.

#1712 SunnyENTP

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:10

:up:

Seemed to do no harm to Alonso's reputation last year. I suspect Hamilton wants to keep expectations down, as he always seems to. He, perhaps more so than JB, was the McLaren driver who was always more cautious about prospects. He'd rather fly under the radar and stick it on pole in Melbourne I bet :D




There are no expectations on check here. When you come from driving the fastest car last year with great down-force to W04 you instantly can tell the difference. I dont think Lewis is the sort of person to bullshit. He and Button are one of the few drivers who would say what exactly they feel about the car good or bad.

#1713 jav

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:13

Hamilton has come out and said that this W04 is not at the same level as his McLaren was last year- and it (MP4-28) will have improved. Downforce is lacking and until they get some more, this car can't compete with the front group.


Could be downplaying but I believe it's the relativity thing. Lewis came from a better car and is conservative, Nico came from a worse car and is positive. I tend to put more stock in Lewis opinion.

Edited by jav, 22 February 2013 - 16:14.


#1714 Szoelloe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:35

Maybe he's just being realistic? Rosberg seems to be saying similar things.



That doesn't contradict anything he said. 'Closer to the top guys' is a pretty vague statement considering how far back they were at the end of last year.


These^^

Really, fabricating theories to back up unrealistic hope by second-guessing what the drivers themselves say will make one fall flat on the face. Atm, however, I take huge pleasure from the fact that they so far seem to operate on the level of a top team. As to how fast they are and the pecking order on the grid, I have no clue yet, apart from thinking that they are not slow either. Way to go.

Edited by Szoelloe, 22 February 2013 - 16:36.


#1715 MeatPopsicle

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:40

Could also be the change in tire compounds skewing hamiltons perception of the difference between cars

#1716 bauss

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:45

Downforce may be lacking but the car may have better mech. grip ...

in any case, Aus is round the corner...we will see

#1717 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:47

I don't care what Lewis says, he did a 1:23.2 on a damp/moist track on mediums with a truck load of fuel this morning.

#1718 BernieEc

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:48

Downforce may be lacking but the car may have better mech. grip ...

in any case, Aus is round the corner...we will see

Out of the holy trinity (downforce, engine power, mechanical grip)........in todays cars, downforce is king

#1719 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:57

Out of the holy trinity (downforce, engine power, mechanical grip)........in todays cars, downforce is king

Is it possible that the Merc and McL simply just feel like completely different cars, and Lewis is just... wrong? Because the way he's talking it is as if the DF on the W04 is really bad, but the times suggest it isn't. It's like he is swimming against the tide slightly, he's confusing.

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#1720 bauss

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:59

Out of the holy trinity (downforce, engine power, mechanical grip)........in todays cars, downforce is king


obviously, still like LH said, the car may lack DF compared to the 27 but superior in other areas which make it close in laptimes overall...

lets not forget that recent McLaren cars have relatively sucked in Mech grip or whatever it is that makes the car underperform in Monaco...and such

#1721 BernieEc

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:01

Is it possible that the Merc and McL simply just feel like completely different cars, and Lewis is just... wrong? Because the way he's talking it is as if the DF on the W04 is really bad, but the times suggest it isn't. It's like he is swimming against the tide slightly, he's confusing.

Or maybe, just maybe.....we are the one's reading too much in to testing laptimes :)

#1722 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:01

Is it possible that the Merc and McL simply just feel like completely different cars, and Lewis is just... wrong? Because the way he's talking it is as if the DF on the W04 is really bad, but the times suggest it isn't. It's like he is swimming against the tide slightly, he's confusing.


Sure cars can have different characteristics but at ehe end of the day, downforce means the same thing regardless of car, the amount of speed you can carry in corners without loosing the car. Thankfully Lewis hasn't said that the car is nervous to drive and that he needs to manhandle it.

#1723 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:04

Or maybe, just maybe.....we are the one's reading too much in to testing laptimes :)

23.2 with 16 laps of fuel is a plain fact though! I'm liking Rosberg's outlook much better

#1724 slmk

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:05

23.2 with 16 laps of fuel is a plain fact though! I'm liking Rosberg's outlook much better


Maybe it's the case of RBR and McLaren sandbagging...

#1725 MaCamZaF1

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:05

Lewis Hamilton has stressed that Mercedes must improve their downforce after the second pre-season test finished at the Circuit de Catalunya.

“Like I said in Jerez, I can feel that we have a good foundation with this car but there is still a lot to learn and we know that the name of the game is to improve our downforce.”

all about downforce...

#1726 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:19

Maybe it's the case of RBR and McLaren sandbagging...

Maybe... but it seems like in this weeks conditions the Merc could break into the 1:20s, which is very fast, and it just seems impossible that anyone could go under 1:20.

#1727 BernieEc

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:25

Maybe... but it seems like in this weeks conditions the Merc could break into the 1:20s, which is very fast, and it just seems impossible that anyone could go under 1:20.

Merc could break in to the 1.20's and do a 1.20.9. And u have a red bull come and do a 1.20 .02.....both are not sub 1.20s but massive difference...bottomline is we don't know. Although I would so love to be surprised

#1728 TomNokoe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:26

Merc could break in to the 1.20's and do a 1.20.9. And u have a red bull come and do a 1.20 .02.....both are not sub 1.20s but massive difference...bottomline is we don't know. Although I would so love to be surprised

Merc can do better than a 1:20.9 I am sure of that. I think the gap is at max half a second.

#1729 Alx09

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 17:55

Good-looking: http://www.formule1....61540390.99.jpg

Edit - another one: http://www.formule1....61540388.87.jpg

Edited by Alx09, 22 February 2013 - 18:01.


#1730 choyothe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:00

Looks like Merc has turned it completely around, what a beast of a car. Props to them though, at this point it looks pretty much certain that come Australia they'll have at least half a second on the field, probably more. :up:

#1731 jrg19

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:01

Good-looking: http://www.formule1....61540390.99.jpg


Old rear wing endplate, hope they introduce some strakes to the bottom on the rear wing and put the damn numbers back on!

#1732 Moore

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:03

http://www.motorspor...ton/0473765.jpg

#1733 ApexMouse

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:19

Looks like Merc has turned it completely around, what a beast of a car. Props to them though, at this point it looks pretty much certain that come Australia they'll have at least half a second on the field, probably more. :up:

:rotfl:

#1734 1Devil1

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:26

Looks like Merc has turned it completely around, what a beast of a car. Props to them though, at this point it looks pretty much certain that come Australia they'll have at least half a second on the field, probably more. :up:


Is this a response to the overhyping here? You definitely joking :lol:

#1735 jrg19

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:28

Looks like Merc has turned it completely around, what a beast of a car. Props to them though, at this point it looks pretty much certain that come Australia they'll have at least half a second on the field, probably more. :up:


Hamophobia out in force.

#1736 ApexMouse

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:42

Hamophobia out in force.


Yes. EVERYTHING IS ABOUT LEWIS. THE ENTIRE WORLD HATES HIM.

Remove chip from shoulder, you will feel better.

#1737 Kerch

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:55

Yes. EVERYTHING IS ABOUT LEWIS. THE ENTIRE WORLD HATES HIM.

Remove chip from shoulder, you will feel better.


But he's dead right in this case.

#1738 mlsnoopy

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:56

Some people are already preparing themselves for a possible successfull season.
It won't take long after Hamilton wins his first race that people will start claiming that Mercedes is a rocketship

#1739 pingu666

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:02

its noticeable theres way more posts in the merc thread than the last years, so yeah thatll be the lewis effect.

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#1740 P123

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:03

Yes. EVERYTHING IS ABOUT LEWIS. THE ENTIRE WORLD HATES HIM.

Remove chip from shoulder, you will feel better.


He is correct though in terms of the source of the OTT message he is replying too. We've already seen the sweating in the 'what if the Mercedes is a good car' topic. People need to relax. Both the hypers who seem to think the Merc is up there with the likes of McLaren, and those getting a little worried that the evil Hamilton may not be destined for a season in the midfield.

#1741 Alx09

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:05

Yeah, calm down people. It has been nice vibe in the Merc thread so far, lets keep it that way :-)

#1742 Shiroo

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:11

I just hope it won't end like every year so far for Mercedes.
But I believe Hamilton is right with expectations. he can easly compare McLaren to Mercedes that's why he can say how inferior the car is, while Rosberg each year was saying how big improvment the car is, Hamilton said straight on, that it lacks downforce compared to McLaren.
They will get into Q3, but I highly doubt that they will fight for wins

#1743 BernieEc

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:11

am not so sure it's the Merc fans causing the fanfare. Seems some supporters from another chrome plated car are in here to spew bile on the "prodigal son"

Edited by BernieEc, 22 February 2013 - 19:12.


#1744 teejay

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:16

I am a long time fan of the other silver car ....

But I am also a believer that Lewis is the fastest guy out there, and I want to see him win.

Going to be a hard season to follow if its close.

#1745 jrg19

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:25

http://www1.skysport...o/24068/8517047
http://www1.skysport...o/28461/8517223 (notebook other stuff on but interview with Ted not Craig)

Think Lewis mentions in both videos, that there are things that are better than what hes had in the past but things that are not as good (downforce)

What elements of the Mercedes would you imagine to be better?

#1746 choyothe

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:30

Hamophobia out in force.


 ;) What can I say, the evidence is undeniable. The team/drivers have to fail massively to not get 1-2 in quali and race.

#1747 jav

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:31

I just hope it won't end like every year so far for Mercedes.
But I believe Hamilton is right with expectations. he can easly compare McLaren to Mercedes that's why he can say how inferior the car is, while Rosberg each year was saying how big improvment the car is, Hamilton said straight on, that it lacks downforce compared to McLaren.
They will get into Q3, but I highly doubt that they will fight for wins



+1

I'll add that I've been a regular on the MGP thread since 2010. It is very different around here this year with so many new names. I think Bernie is right with chrome car contigent and I think it's great.

I read more than I post and can't help smiling at some of the "ignorance is bliss" posts from some the newbies. Of course theirs a chance they're right... but theirs a chance I'll win the lottery too. The difference in recognizing the odds are apparent in what's written.

#1748 windtravels

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:32

http://www1.skysport...o/24068/8517047
http://www1.skysport...o/28461/8517223 (notebook other stuff on but interview with Ted not Craig)

Think Lewis mentions in both videos, that there are things that are better than what hes had in the past but things that are not as good (downforce)

What elements of the Mercedes would you imagine to be better?


mechanical grip?

#1749 KiloWatt

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:41

I read more than I post and can't help smiling at some of the "ignorance is bliss" posts from some the newbies.


:up:

#1750 akshay380

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 20:23

Some people are already preparing themselves for a possible successfull season.
It won't take long after Hamilton wins his first race that people will start claiming that Mercedes is a rocketship

And that it was Schumi who developed the car.