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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#1801 BernieEc

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 15:11

I am not a fan of Lewis, but I like his approach and what he said yesterday, there is no room for such an improvement Mercedes needs to close the gap or to be in front of the others at this moment. In a realistic evaluation Mercedes should aim for a position in front of Lotus, that would be great and I think even Lewis would be happy, especially if he wins at least one race this year.But some fans here have to high expectations, and will be disappointed if Mercedes turns out to be slow as the last years. Lewis, like Schumacher , is right to stay hungry and unsatisfied with this situation, not like Rosberg who pies in his pants after one fast lap to find out coming to the first race Mercedes is too slow. I hope Lewis catches one win, perhaps of the randomness of Pirelli in the first races, would be great, for himself to stay motivated and focus for more at 2014. In the end is was not a bad move, everybody knows 2014 will be a game changer

I don't think thats a very fair statement on Rosberg!!!

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#1802 jav

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 15:25

We hardened fans are used to seeing hope in testing only to face a harsher reality when the season starts. I'll admit I'm a skeptic resisting hopes coaxing. I resist because I've been here before only to be let down, repeatedly. A bitter pill for the uninitiated.

This team has a history of looking reasonable but come race day- they (more often than not) just fall back. In qualifying, top teams improve with each qualifying session, usually having something in reserve for Q3- Merc seems to wring everything out of the car in Q2. Then they just can't hang in Q3 or, chose not to even try to save tires. Their in season development rate has never been close to the likes of Ferrari, Mclaren or Redbull. They've come out and admitted this openly.

The harshest reality is that their (design and development) staff hasn't appreciably changed from last season. We can talk reshuffle but neither Haug nor schumacher (the significant personnel changes) had a DIRECT hand in development- they weren't the problem (IMHO).

Is Lewis' going to help the team? Probably- he brings new fans, fresh perspective coming from a top team, even removes some doubt that maybe, just maybe, the drivers have been part of the problem. But if the old driver and old "head" weren't the problem, their replacements won't be the solution.

The facts admitted by the team, their peers and every credible expert, is that Mercedes cars- W01, W02 and W03, were 1) not good enough out of the box to compete with the top 3 teams AND 2) the design and development team/structure, were not good enough to make up for that shortcoming with superior development. The fist problem could be overcome by the second, and if the first deficiency was a great strength, the second would matter less (think Brawn GP 2009). To these 2 main failings, I haven't seen an improvement (yet).

That last tenet of hope is - "well W04 is the first car fully conceived and designed by Costa and the dream team". My response to that is- True BUT- 1) Costa was released by Ferrari and in essence blamed for their design woes so his involvement alone isn't the same as if Newey had designed W04. 2) Costa, and essentially every other main player (Bell,Willis) were on staff last year and their development wasn't good enough.

Sure Toto may drive them harder, they may get luckier, they may be more motivated.... but none of them will suddenly gain 50 IQ points as a result. This is the same design/development staff as last season and I suspect only marginal improvement for this year.

I hope to be proven wrong but the definition of insanity always comes to mind (doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results).

Edited by jav, 23 February 2013 - 15:31.


#1803 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 15:32

I think its also very important to remember that cdc is considered to be one of the tracks in the calinder which is most reliant on downforce- therefore where the gap to the fastest cars should be greatest.
If at this circuit merc are roughly 7 tenths (my estimate) behind the fastest car, then at less aero-dependant tracks they may be 2-3 tenths!
Heck last year rbr was around 7 tenths behind the mclaren here, and we saw how the cars' pace compared and developed throughout the season.


#1804 BernieEc

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 15:43

1. Sergio Pérez / McLaren / 1:21.848 / 174 laps / Soft
2. Fernando Alonso / Ferrari /1:21.875 / 283 laps / Soft
3. Nico Hülkenberg / Sauber / 1:22.160 / 179 laps / Soft
4. Romain Grosjean / Lotus / 1:22.188 / 160 laps / Soft
5. Sebastian Vettel / Red Bull / 1:22.197 / 150 laps / Soft
6. Nico Rosberg / Mercedes / 1:22.611 / 162 laps / Medium
7. Kimi Räikkönen / Lotus / 1:22.623 / 87 laps / Medium
8. Pastor Maldonado / Williams / 1:22.675 / 178 laps / Soft
9. Lewis Hamilton / Mercedes / 1:22.726 / 173 laps / Hard
10. Valtteri Bottas / Williams / 1:22.826 / 189 laps / Soft
11. Jenson Button / McLaren / 1:22.840 / 141 laps / Hard
12. Adrian Sutil / Force India / 1:22.877 / 78 laps / Soft
13. Mark Webber / Red Bull / 1:23.024 / 172 laps / Medium
14. Jean-Éric Vergne / Toro Rosso / 1:23.366 / 186 laps / Medium
15. Daniel Ricciardo / Toro Rosso / 1:23.718 / 143 laps / Medium
16. Paul di Resta / Force India / 1:23.971 / 144 laps / Medium
17. Max Chilton / Marussia / 1:25.115 / 241 laps / Soft
18. Esteban Gutiérrez / Sauber / 1:25.124 / 129 laps / Hard
19. Jules Bianchi / Force India / 1:25.732 / 96 laps / Medium
20. Giedo van der Garde / Caterham / 1:26.177 / 133 laps / Soft
21. Charles Pic / Caterham / 1:26.243 / 151 laps / Medium
22. Felipe Massa / Ferrari / 1:27.553 / 80 laps / Medium

Seems mercedes topped the timesheets in the medium and hard compounds run (I know its not representative). What am worried about is their lack of testing on the soft compound. I would have thought they want to test the car with this like other teams have. Am just slightly worried they haven't . I really hope their tyre eating issues have gone for good and is not part of the reason they didn't do tests with the softs

#1805 Lokt

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 15:55

1. Sergio Pérez / McLaren / 1:21.848 / 174 laps / Soft
2. Fernando Alonso / Ferrari /1:21.875 / 283 laps / Soft
3. Nico Hülkenberg / Sauber / 1:22.160 / 179 laps / Soft
4. Romain Grosjean / Lotus / 1:22.188 / 160 laps / Soft
5. Sebastian Vettel / Red Bull / 1:22.197 / 150 laps / Soft
6. Nico Rosberg / Mercedes / 1:22.611 / 162 laps / Medium
7. Kimi Räikkönen / Lotus / 1:22.623 / 87 laps / Medium
8. Pastor Maldonado / Williams / 1:22.675 / 178 laps / Soft
9. Lewis Hamilton / Mercedes / 1:22.726 / 173 laps / Hard
10. Valtteri Bottas / Williams / 1:22.826 / 189 laps / Soft
11. Jenson Button / McLaren / 1:22.840 / 141 laps / Hard
12. Adrian Sutil / Force India / 1:22.877 / 78 laps / Soft
13. Mark Webber / Red Bull / 1:23.024 / 172 laps / Medium
14. Jean-Éric Vergne / Toro Rosso / 1:23.366 / 186 laps / Medium
15. Daniel Ricciardo / Toro Rosso / 1:23.718 / 143 laps / Medium
16. Paul di Resta / Force India / 1:23.971 / 144 laps / Medium
17. Max Chilton / Marussia / 1:25.115 / 241 laps / Soft
18. Esteban Gutiérrez / Sauber / 1:25.124 / 129 laps / Hard
19. Jules Bianchi / Force India / 1:25.732 / 96 laps / Medium
20. Giedo van der Garde / Caterham / 1:26.177 / 133 laps / Soft
21. Charles Pic / Caterham / 1:26.243 / 151 laps / Medium
22. Felipe Massa / Ferrari / 1:27.553 / 80 laps / Medium

Seems mercedes topped the timesheets in the medium and hard compounds run (I know its not representative). What am worried about is their lack of testing on the soft compound. I would have thought they want to test the car with this like other teams have. Am just slightly worried they haven't . I really hope their tyre eating issues have gone for good and is not part of the reason they didn't do tests with the softs



I pretty sure Perez did a 1.22.5 on hards before he did the 1.21.8 on softs. The picture will be much clearer next week when hopefully more teams start doing race sims. That has always been the most telling thing in testing of how the teams stack up.

#1806 Seanspeed

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:03

In qualifying, top teams improve with each qualifying session, usually having something in reserve for Q3- Merc seems to wring everything out of the car in Q2. Then they just can't hang in Q3 or, chose not to even try to save tires.

A lot of the time, that comes from Mercedes having to use up extra option tires either in Q1 or in Q2, while the top teams can put in a lap and then be reasonably comfortable about not needing to use another fresh set. This leaves them at a disadvantage come Q3.

I think its also very important to remember that cdc is considered to be one of the tracks in the calinder which is most reliant on downforce- therefore where the gap to the fastest cars should be greatest.
If at this circuit merc are roughly 7 tenths (my estimate) behind the fastest car, then at less aero-dependant tracks they may be 2-3 tenths!
Heck last year rbr was around 7 tenths behind the mclaren here, and we saw how the cars' pace compared and developed throughout the season.

Not sure where you're pulling the 7 tenths number from.

But Barcelona can be weird. Theoretically, downforce is king here, but we saw last year that Williams and Ferrari had cars ahead of the Red Bulls, so its not everything.

Edited by Seanspeed, 23 February 2013 - 16:07.


#1807 1Devil1

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:17

A lot of the time, that comes from Mercedes having to use up extra option tires either in Q1 or in Q2, while the top teams can put in a lap and then be reasonably comfortable about not needing to use another fresh set. This leaves them at a disadvantage come Q3.


Not sure where you're pulling the 7 tenths number from.

But Barcelona can be weird. Theoretically, downforce is king here, but we saw last year that Williams and Ferrari had cars ahead of the Red Bulls, so its not everything.


But that was not the reason the had nothing left in the tanks in Q3. Mercedes often was great on fridays to fall behind in q1. When other teams progressively got better over the weekend, Mercedes went backwards. I remember sometimes they even failed to reach their friday times and other teams pulled one second out of the bag. I don't know what the problem was. Perhaps they drove fast as they could on friday and other teams concentrated on race pace..

#1808 boldhakka

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:27

But that was not the reason the had nothing left in the tanks in Q3. Mercedes often was great on fridays to fall behind in q1. When other teams progressively got better over the weekend, Mercedes went backwards. I remember sometimes they even failed to reach their friday times and other teams pulled one second out of the bag. I don't know what the problem was. Perhaps they drove fast as they could on friday and other teams concentrated on race pace..


Rosberg was known to run some very light qualifying laps on Fridays when he was at Williams, usually topping the Friday time sheets. While other teams held back and ran heavier on Fridays, even on their qualy runs.

Maybe he has continued with that practice. Nothing wrong with it though, except that it can be deceiving.

#1809 kedia990

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:27

I pretty sure Perez did a 1.22.5 on hards before he did the 1.21.8 on softs. The picture will be much clearer next week when hopefully more teams start doing race sims. That has always been the most telling thing in testing of how the teams stack up.


Yep, that's correct, Perez did a 1:22.5 on hards, unfortunately that list presents only the fastest time of each driver.

#1810 BernieEc

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:40

These cars do seem very fast. extremely fast. I mean for example 2010 Q3 was a 1:19.995 by Mark Webber, this in a car with double diffuser, EBD, F-duct and bridgestone tyres. I think Seanspeed might have a point here in that he mentioned that the cold temps could add anything up to a second to lap times. These laptimes are seriously fast and some of them were set at the beginning of 10-12 lap runs. Seems FIA can't really slow these cars down.

I know compounds have changed and limited use of DRS and also KERS but still......the times do seem fast

Edited by BernieEc, 23 February 2013 - 16:41.


#1811 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:43

Rosberg was known to run some very light qualifying laps on Fridays when he was at Williams, usually topping the Friday time sheets. While other teams held back and ran heavier on Fridays, even on their qualy runs.

Maybe he has continued with that practice. Nothing wrong with it though, except that it can be deceiving.


Its not really rosbergs decision to make.

#1812 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:45

These cars do seem very fast. extremely fast. I mean for example 2010 Q3 was a 1:19.995 by Mark Webber, this in a car with double diffuser, EBD, F-duct and bridgestone tyres. I think Seanspeed might have a point here in that he mentioned that the cold temps could add anything up to a second to lap times. These laptimes are seriously fast and some of them were set at the beginning of 10-12 lap runs. Seems FIA can't really slow these cars down.

I know compounds have changed and limited use of DRS and also KERS but still......the times do seem fast


It could be that these tires are faster over one lap than their predicessors, in which case our understanding of the pecking order is even more unreliable


#1813 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 17:13

It could be that these tires are faster over one lap than their predicessors, in which case our understanding of the pecking order is even more unreliable


That is a fact. The 2013 zeros are faster on one lap than the the 2012 zeros.


#1814 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 17:20

That is a fact. The 2013 zeros are faster on one lap than the the 2012 zeros.


Have we been told by roughly how much?

#1815 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 17:24

if they really were overheating the tyres already in winter tests then just simply WOW. W03 the Oven. though they couldn't solve it in the end, so probably it was a flaw since W02



They weren't. And it would not be right to say that they generally cooked the tyres last year. The only time that was generally the case, was when they introduced the coanda late last season. THAT was cooking the rears. The problem was that the zero's narrow operating range, a good deficit on DF, and the interlinked suspension did not go well together. They are ok this year with tyre deg it seems. They have enough DF, the zeros are not ambient temp sensitive anymore, and they have a modified suspension with a much wider range of set-up possibilites.


#1816 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 17:25

Have we been told by roughly how much?


No

edit: at least not that i know of.

Edited by Szoelloe, 23 February 2013 - 17:26.


#1817 slmk

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 18:52

Yep, that's correct, Perez did a 1:22.5 on hards, unfortunately that list presents only the fastest time of each driver.


Think so, but Perez's stint was much shorter. Lewis ran a good 7-8 laps, while Perez ran 3-4 laps, if I am not mistaken.

Either way, if Mercedes can get that close to a McLaren, that's a good sign.

#1818 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 19:12

No

edit: at least not that i know of.


Ok, thankyou

#1819 kedia990

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 19:34

Think so, but Perez's stint was much shorter. Lewis ran a good 7-8 laps, while Perez ran 3-4 laps, if I am not mistaken.

Either way, if Mercedes can get that close to a McLaren, that's a good sign.


Thats true too - Hamilton ran 9 to 11 laps (not sure), Perez's was I think a single lap burst (not necessarily on single lap fuel, mind). And Perez set his time after Hamilton, so had better track conditions.
And yeah, it is a decent sign. Assuming McLaren weren't sandbagging any more than Mercedes.

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#1820 TomNokoe

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 19:57

Thats true too - Hamilton ran 9 to 11 laps (not sure), Perez's was I think a single lap burst (not necessarily on single lap fuel, mind). And Perez set his time after Hamilton, so had better track conditions.
And yeah, it is a decent sign. Assuming McLaren weren't sandbagging any more than Mercedes.

Hammy did a 1:22.882 on the 1st lap of an 11 lap run on hards.
Also on hards, and I think more impressively, he set a 1:23.2 on the 4th lap of a 13 lap run, he'd already done a flyer (1:23.7) and a slowish (1:33) before that so the tyres were well beyond their best.


#1821 BigCHrome

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 20:24

tyre heating hmm. THey should have problems with heating during Barcelona / Jerez I believe. if they hit here a temperature without a problems wouldn't it mean that in countries like Bahrain they will overheat as f***? it was similar last year, they were good during winter tests and no problem with overheating and then badum tss tyre eater is back

so how they can know already that there are no problems with that?


He's saying that they had problems with the tires heating too much during the season on the W03, something that the W04 has not shown so far.

#1822 SCEPurple

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 20:29

I don't think Lewis was lying when he said the car is not near last year's Mclaren.

If they're there or thereabouts with Lotus it may be a blessing - assuming they are as strong as last year

#1823 SunnyENTP

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 21:05

Rosberg was known to run some very light qualifying laps on Fridays when he was at Williams, usually topping the Friday time sheets. While other teams held back and ran heavier on Fridays, even on their qualy runs.

Maybe he has continued with that practice. Nothing wrong with it though, except that it can be deceiving.



Drivers don't decide what to run its the team.

#1824 Paa

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 22:06

Everyone is quoting Lewis, that Merc doesn't have the DF level of last year's Mac. However, Button said something similar about the new Mac as well... And Vettel wasn't too excited about the new RB either.

With the new changes (DDRS, flexing FW) it is possible that top teams lost so much performace that they are actually slower or on par with last year's car and they need some more time to regain that performance.
While the other teams had much more room to improve.

I'm not implying anything with this, just trying to put things into perspective.

Edited by Paa, 23 February 2013 - 22:07.


#1825 dans79

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 22:17

Everyone is quoting Lewis, that Merc doesn't have the DF level of last year's Mac. However, Button said something similar about the new Mac as well... And Vettel wasn't too excited about the new RB either.

With the new changes (DDRS, flexing FW) it is possible that top teams lost so much performace that they are actually slower or on par with last year's car and they need some more time to regain that performance.
While the other teams had much more room to improve.


:up:




#1826 akshay380

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 23:30

Everyone is quoting Lewis, that Merc doesn't have the DF level of last year's Mac. However, Button said something similar about the new Mac as well... And Vettel wasn't too excited about the new RB either.

With the new changes (DDRS, flexing FW) it is possible that top teams lost so much performace that they are actually slower or on par with last year's car and they need some more time to regain that performance.
While the other teams had much more room to improve.

I'm not implying anything with this, just trying to put things into perspective.

I said that during Jerez test itself when some whiner boys quoted Lewis's MP4-27s downforce.
Interestingly these whiners have suddenly disappeared!

#1827 NoDivergence

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:19

I truly don't think the Mercedes has the downforce of the McLaren, but the tires are masking everyone's performance. They are so shit that everyone is backing way off so much that the gap between cars is shrinking. More development of the Mercedes and dealing with the tires will possibly close the gap to the front, even if the car is slightly downforce deficient

#1828 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:50

Drivers don't decide what to run its the team.


Teams will not ignore a drivers preference to do some qualy sims.

#1829 Seanspeed

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:19

Teams will not ignore a drivers preference to do some qualy sims.

How do you know?

#1830 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:07

How do you know?


Same way I know you're not a pink unicorn.

Anyway, here's a brief excerpt from the 2009 press conference in Monaco:

Q. Frank, we have seen the two drivers being very competitive on Friday and Saturday mornings. Is there a certain frustration that those performances are not being translated into results on Sunday?

FW: Yeah, the word is showboating perhaps.

Q. I didn't say that.

FW: Bit too much of that probably. Formula One always finds out the truth pretty quickly. If you are quick the race will tell you that you are quick or the public. In practice, you can fool people including yourself.


I think both Nakajima and Rosberg liked to do low fuel runs, back then. No reason to think Rosberg has lost that preference. If its a team thing, I don't see why they would stop doing it after their driver left.

Edited by boldhakka, 24 February 2013 - 08:08.


#1831 baddog

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:14

The driver's support team make many of those decisions, and Rosberg's side of the garage were VERY keen to do a low fuel run and get a high sheet time at the end of friday 1 and especially 2 sessions throughout the last couple of years. If you don't believe this then well, you can go back and look if you can find that info, because I am saying it is definitely true. It was a notable contrast from the policy of the other side of the garage where often no such run would be made.

Not really a big deal just a difference in focus, some drivers need that, some dont.

#1832 Zava

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:28

These cars do seem very fast. extremely fast. I mean for example 2010 Q3 was a 1:19.995 by Mark Webber, this in a car with double diffuser, EBD, F-duct and bridgestone tyres. I think Seanspeed might have a point here in that he mentioned that the cold temps could add anything up to a second to lap times. These laptimes are seriously fast and some of them were set at the beginning of 10-12 lap runs. Seems FIA can't really slow these cars down.

I know compounds have changed and limited use of DRS and also KERS but still......the times do seem fast

of course he is right, my fav. example of this is mercedes back from 2011, they posted a 1:21.2 on the final day, everyone was in awe and said they couldn't match the laptime, then came the actual barcelona weekend, where both merc drivers posted 1:22.6 laps, even though the car was updated.

#1833 Zava

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:29

Have we been told by roughly how much?

Hembery said something about 5 tenths.

#1834 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:04

Good old Nico:

Q: Speaking of speed, how welcome was your fastest lap on the first day here in Barcelona?
NR: To be honest, it is always a good feeling to be up there, no matter what people say.


:lol:

From the latest F1.com interview.

I would definitely take Nico's laptimes in the W04 with a grain of salt in practice and tests.

#1835 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:30

Teams will not ignore a drivers preference to do some qualy sims.


Yes, they definitely will. A driver has no 'preference' in that matter either.


#1836 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:46

Yes, they definitely will. A driver has no 'preference' in that matter either.


Wach as Rosberg regularly beats Hamilton in practice sessions in the W04 only to be much more closely matched or fall behind come qualifying. He likes seeing his name up there, as he himself says in the quote I provide above. Too bad you don't like hearing it.

Hamilton is a much better baramoter of the W04, for this and other reasons.

Edited by boldhakka, 24 February 2013 - 09:47.


#1837 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:52

Wach as Rosberg regularly beats Hamilton in practice sessions in the W04 only to be much more closely matched or fall behind come qualifying. He likes seeing his name up there, as he himself says in the quote I provide above. Too bad you don't like hearing it.

Hamilton is a much better baramoter of the W04, for this and other reasons.


??

what exactly are you talking about? What barometer??? You said a driver can decide to do a qualy sim in testing at his whim. The answer to that is NO.


#1838 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:00

??

what exactly are you talking about? What barometer??? You said a driver can decide to do a qualy sim in testing at his whim. The answer to that is NO.


:lol: I never said that. Hell of a strawman.

No, Szoelloe, you lost the original context. My original point (which wasn't even the one you responded to) was in response to this point (bolder part):

But that was not the reason the had nothing left in the tanks in Q3. Mercedes often was great on fridays to fall behind in q1. When other teams progressively got better over the weekend, Mercedes went backwards. I remember sometimes they even failed to reach their friday times and other teams pulled one second out of the bag. I don't know what the problem was. Perhaps they drove fast as they could on friday and other teams concentrated on race pace..


:wave:

See baddog's point above as well.

Edited by boldhakka, 24 February 2013 - 10:01.


#1839 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:04

Ok. my bad.

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#1840 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:05

Ok. my bad.


No worries. We were getting off topic anyway.

It's nice that they seem to have overcome their tyre trouble, with Rosberg calling it a "massive step".

#1841 jj2728

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:43

We hardened fans are used to seeing hope in testing only to face a harsher reality when the season starts. I'll admit I'm a skeptic resisting hopes coaxing. I resist because I've been here before only to be let down, repeatedly. A bitter pill for the uninitiated.


What exactly do you mean by 'hardened fans'? And who are these unitiated?
Just wondering.
Anyhow, people have a tendency to read way too much into test sessions and testing times. It's more akin to reading tea leaves.

#1842 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:28

This thread is about the W04.


So let's talk.

Tell me why this car is going to be any different from the W03 in terms of performance?

They showed no understanding of anything regarding performance from April thru November.

#1843 Kvothe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:33

So let's talk.

Tell me why this car is going to be any different from the W03 in terms of performance?

They showed no understanding of anything regarding performance from April thru November.


Completely different designer

Different suspension (not interlinked)

Not developed around a technical dead end such as DDRS

60% scale wind tunnel

A better driver?

Any more?



#1844 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:34

So let's talk.

Tell me why this car is going to be any different from the W03 in terms of performance?

They showed no understanding of anything regarding performance from April thru November.


I am not so sure about that. They understood enough not to do anything about it.

#1845 kedia990

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:35

Completely different designer

...

Any more?


+ Designed with coanda integrated, instead of a slap-on

+ Tighter packaging

+ Not very scientific this, but the front wing looks KILLER :lol:

#1846 study

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:37

Completely different designer

Different suspension (not interlinked)

Not developed around a technical dead end such as DDRS


I thought they was still going to have DDRS?

#1847 BernieEc

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:42

I thought they was still going to have DDRS?


DRD you mean. DDRS is banned and they are 2 totally different solutions

Edited by BernieEc, 24 February 2013 - 18:42.


#1848 dans79

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:44

where is all this hate coming from. some bitter posters in here.

I know what you mean, sometimes I wish we had virtual duct tape...

#1849 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:50

Completely different designer

Different suspension (not interlinked)

Not developed around a technical dead end such as DDRS

60% scale wind tunnel

A better driver?

Any more?


What does a 60% wind tunnel have to do with anything? Lewis has already made comments about the downforce and what he perceives to be lack of.

What were the technical dead ends that the W01 and W02 chased after?

Also what about the dead end such as tire wear? They never got ahold of the tire wear issue for the entire season last year. I'd wager the W04 has the same problems.

Didn't you notice how they started trying to put focus on the 2014 car?

#1850 D.M.N.

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 19:25

Hamilton vs Rosberg discussion goes here: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=178838

Car talk remains in this thread - it is as simple as that.