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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#1801 BernieEc

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 15:43

1. Sergio Pérez / McLaren / 1:21.848 / 174 laps / Soft
2. Fernando Alonso / Ferrari /1:21.875 / 283 laps / Soft
3. Nico Hülkenberg / Sauber / 1:22.160 / 179 laps / Soft
4. Romain Grosjean / Lotus / 1:22.188 / 160 laps / Soft
5. Sebastian Vettel / Red Bull / 1:22.197 / 150 laps / Soft
6. Nico Rosberg / Mercedes / 1:22.611 / 162 laps / Medium
7. Kimi Räikkönen / Lotus / 1:22.623 / 87 laps / Medium
8. Pastor Maldonado / Williams / 1:22.675 / 178 laps / Soft
9. Lewis Hamilton / Mercedes / 1:22.726 / 173 laps / Hard
10. Valtteri Bottas / Williams / 1:22.826 / 189 laps / Soft
11. Jenson Button / McLaren / 1:22.840 / 141 laps / Hard
12. Adrian Sutil / Force India / 1:22.877 / 78 laps / Soft
13. Mark Webber / Red Bull / 1:23.024 / 172 laps / Medium
14. Jean-Éric Vergne / Toro Rosso / 1:23.366 / 186 laps / Medium
15. Daniel Ricciardo / Toro Rosso / 1:23.718 / 143 laps / Medium
16. Paul di Resta / Force India / 1:23.971 / 144 laps / Medium
17. Max Chilton / Marussia / 1:25.115 / 241 laps / Soft
18. Esteban Gutiérrez / Sauber / 1:25.124 / 129 laps / Hard
19. Jules Bianchi / Force India / 1:25.732 / 96 laps / Medium
20. Giedo van der Garde / Caterham / 1:26.177 / 133 laps / Soft
21. Charles Pic / Caterham / 1:26.243 / 151 laps / Medium
22. Felipe Massa / Ferrari / 1:27.553 / 80 laps / Medium

Seems mercedes topped the timesheets in the medium and hard compounds run (I know its not representative). What am worried about is their lack of testing on the soft compound. I would have thought they want to test the car with this like other teams have. Am just slightly worried they haven't . I really hope their tyre eating issues have gone for good and is not part of the reason they didn't do tests with the softs

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#1802 Lokt

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 15:55

1. Sergio Pérez / McLaren / 1:21.848 / 174 laps / Soft
2. Fernando Alonso / Ferrari /1:21.875 / 283 laps / Soft
3. Nico Hülkenberg / Sauber / 1:22.160 / 179 laps / Soft
4. Romain Grosjean / Lotus / 1:22.188 / 160 laps / Soft
5. Sebastian Vettel / Red Bull / 1:22.197 / 150 laps / Soft
6. Nico Rosberg / Mercedes / 1:22.611 / 162 laps / Medium
7. Kimi Räikkönen / Lotus / 1:22.623 / 87 laps / Medium
8. Pastor Maldonado / Williams / 1:22.675 / 178 laps / Soft
9. Lewis Hamilton / Mercedes / 1:22.726 / 173 laps / Hard
10. Valtteri Bottas / Williams / 1:22.826 / 189 laps / Soft
11. Jenson Button / McLaren / 1:22.840 / 141 laps / Hard
12. Adrian Sutil / Force India / 1:22.877 / 78 laps / Soft
13. Mark Webber / Red Bull / 1:23.024 / 172 laps / Medium
14. Jean-Éric Vergne / Toro Rosso / 1:23.366 / 186 laps / Medium
15. Daniel Ricciardo / Toro Rosso / 1:23.718 / 143 laps / Medium
16. Paul di Resta / Force India / 1:23.971 / 144 laps / Medium
17. Max Chilton / Marussia / 1:25.115 / 241 laps / Soft
18. Esteban Gutiérrez / Sauber / 1:25.124 / 129 laps / Hard
19. Jules Bianchi / Force India / 1:25.732 / 96 laps / Medium
20. Giedo van der Garde / Caterham / 1:26.177 / 133 laps / Soft
21. Charles Pic / Caterham / 1:26.243 / 151 laps / Medium
22. Felipe Massa / Ferrari / 1:27.553 / 80 laps / Medium

Seems mercedes topped the timesheets in the medium and hard compounds run (I know its not representative). What am worried about is their lack of testing on the soft compound. I would have thought they want to test the car with this like other teams have. Am just slightly worried they haven't . I really hope their tyre eating issues have gone for good and is not part of the reason they didn't do tests with the softs



I pretty sure Perez did a 1.22.5 on hards before he did the 1.21.8 on softs. The picture will be much clearer next week when hopefully more teams start doing race sims. That has always been the most telling thing in testing of how the teams stack up.

#1803 Seanspeed

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:03

In qualifying, top teams improve with each qualifying session, usually having something in reserve for Q3- Merc seems to wring everything out of the car in Q2. Then they just can't hang in Q3 or, chose not to even try to save tires.

A lot of the time, that comes from Mercedes having to use up extra option tires either in Q1 or in Q2, while the top teams can put in a lap and then be reasonably comfortable about not needing to use another fresh set. This leaves them at a disadvantage come Q3.

I think its also very important to remember that cdc is considered to be one of the tracks in the calinder which is most reliant on downforce- therefore where the gap to the fastest cars should be greatest.
If at this circuit merc are roughly 7 tenths (my estimate) behind the fastest car, then at less aero-dependant tracks they may be 2-3 tenths!
Heck last year rbr was around 7 tenths behind the mclaren here, and we saw how the cars' pace compared and developed throughout the season.

Not sure where you're pulling the 7 tenths number from.

But Barcelona can be weird. Theoretically, downforce is king here, but we saw last year that Williams and Ferrari had cars ahead of the Red Bulls, so its not everything.

Edited by Seanspeed, 23 February 2013 - 16:07.


#1804 1Devil1

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:17

A lot of the time, that comes from Mercedes having to use up extra option tires either in Q1 or in Q2, while the top teams can put in a lap and then be reasonably comfortable about not needing to use another fresh set. This leaves them at a disadvantage come Q3.


Not sure where you're pulling the 7 tenths number from.

But Barcelona can be weird. Theoretically, downforce is king here, but we saw last year that Williams and Ferrari had cars ahead of the Red Bulls, so its not everything.


But that was not the reason the had nothing left in the tanks in Q3. Mercedes often was great on fridays to fall behind in q1. When other teams progressively got better over the weekend, Mercedes went backwards. I remember sometimes they even failed to reach their friday times and other teams pulled one second out of the bag. I don't know what the problem was. Perhaps they drove fast as they could on friday and other teams concentrated on race pace..

#1805 boldhakka

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:27

But that was not the reason the had nothing left in the tanks in Q3. Mercedes often was great on fridays to fall behind in q1. When other teams progressively got better over the weekend, Mercedes went backwards. I remember sometimes they even failed to reach their friday times and other teams pulled one second out of the bag. I don't know what the problem was. Perhaps they drove fast as they could on friday and other teams concentrated on race pace..


Rosberg was known to run some very light qualifying laps on Fridays when he was at Williams, usually topping the Friday time sheets. While other teams held back and ran heavier on Fridays, even on their qualy runs.

Maybe he has continued with that practice. Nothing wrong with it though, except that it can be deceiving.

#1806 kedia990

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:27

I pretty sure Perez did a 1.22.5 on hards before he did the 1.21.8 on softs. The picture will be much clearer next week when hopefully more teams start doing race sims. That has always been the most telling thing in testing of how the teams stack up.


Yep, that's correct, Perez did a 1:22.5 on hards, unfortunately that list presents only the fastest time of each driver.

#1807 BernieEc

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:40

These cars do seem very fast. extremely fast. I mean for example 2010 Q3 was a 1:19.995 by Mark Webber, this in a car with double diffuser, EBD, F-duct and bridgestone tyres. I think Seanspeed might have a point here in that he mentioned that the cold temps could add anything up to a second to lap times. These laptimes are seriously fast and some of them were set at the beginning of 10-12 lap runs. Seems FIA can't really slow these cars down.

I know compounds have changed and limited use of DRS and also KERS but still......the times do seem fast

Edited by BernieEc, 23 February 2013 - 16:41.


#1808 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:43

Rosberg was known to run some very light qualifying laps on Fridays when he was at Williams, usually topping the Friday time sheets. While other teams held back and ran heavier on Fridays, even on their qualy runs.

Maybe he has continued with that practice. Nothing wrong with it though, except that it can be deceiving.


Its not really rosbergs decision to make.

#1809 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 16:45

These cars do seem very fast. extremely fast. I mean for example 2010 Q3 was a 1:19.995 by Mark Webber, this in a car with double diffuser, EBD, F-duct and bridgestone tyres. I think Seanspeed might have a point here in that he mentioned that the cold temps could add anything up to a second to lap times. These laptimes are seriously fast and some of them were set at the beginning of 10-12 lap runs. Seems FIA can't really slow these cars down.

I know compounds have changed and limited use of DRS and also KERS but still......the times do seem fast


It could be that these tires are faster over one lap than their predicessors, in which case our understanding of the pecking order is even more unreliable


#1810 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 17:13

It could be that these tires are faster over one lap than their predicessors, in which case our understanding of the pecking order is even more unreliable


That is a fact. The 2013 zeros are faster on one lap than the the 2012 zeros.


#1811 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 17:20

That is a fact. The 2013 zeros are faster on one lap than the the 2012 zeros.


Have we been told by roughly how much?

#1812 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 17:24

if they really were overheating the tyres already in winter tests then just simply WOW. W03 the Oven. though they couldn't solve it in the end, so probably it was a flaw since W02



They weren't. And it would not be right to say that they generally cooked the tyres last year. The only time that was generally the case, was when they introduced the coanda late last season. THAT was cooking the rears. The problem was that the zero's narrow operating range, a good deficit on DF, and the interlinked suspension did not go well together. They are ok this year with tyre deg it seems. They have enough DF, the zeros are not ambient temp sensitive anymore, and they have a modified suspension with a much wider range of set-up possibilites.


#1813 Szoelloe

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 17:25

Have we been told by roughly how much?


No

edit: at least not that i know of.

Edited by Szoelloe, 23 February 2013 - 17:26.


#1814 slmk

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 18:52

Yep, that's correct, Perez did a 1:22.5 on hards, unfortunately that list presents only the fastest time of each driver.


Think so, but Perez's stint was much shorter. Lewis ran a good 7-8 laps, while Perez ran 3-4 laps, if I am not mistaken.

Either way, if Mercedes can get that close to a McLaren, that's a good sign.

#1815 Masenco

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 19:12

No

edit: at least not that i know of.


Ok, thankyou

#1816 kedia990

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 19:34

Think so, but Perez's stint was much shorter. Lewis ran a good 7-8 laps, while Perez ran 3-4 laps, if I am not mistaken.

Either way, if Mercedes can get that close to a McLaren, that's a good sign.


Thats true too - Hamilton ran 9 to 11 laps (not sure), Perez's was I think a single lap burst (not necessarily on single lap fuel, mind). And Perez set his time after Hamilton, so had better track conditions.
And yeah, it is a decent sign. Assuming McLaren weren't sandbagging any more than Mercedes.

#1817 TomNokoe

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 19:57

Thats true too - Hamilton ran 9 to 11 laps (not sure), Perez's was I think a single lap burst (not necessarily on single lap fuel, mind). And Perez set his time after Hamilton, so had better track conditions.
And yeah, it is a decent sign. Assuming McLaren weren't sandbagging any more than Mercedes.

Hammy did a 1:22.882 on the 1st lap of an 11 lap run on hards.
Also on hards, and I think more impressively, he set a 1:23.2 on the 4th lap of a 13 lap run, he'd already done a flyer (1:23.7) and a slowish (1:33) before that so the tyres were well beyond their best.


#1818 BigCHrome

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 20:24

tyre heating hmm. THey should have problems with heating during Barcelona / Jerez I believe. if they hit here a temperature without a problems wouldn't it mean that in countries like Bahrain they will overheat as f***? it was similar last year, they were good during winter tests and no problem with overheating and then badum tss tyre eater is back

so how they can know already that there are no problems with that?


He's saying that they had problems with the tires heating too much during the season on the W03, something that the W04 has not shown so far.

#1819 SCEPurple

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 20:29

I don't think Lewis was lying when he said the car is not near last year's Mclaren.

If they're there or thereabouts with Lotus it may be a blessing - assuming they are as strong as last year

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#1820 SunnyENTP

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 21:05

Rosberg was known to run some very light qualifying laps on Fridays when he was at Williams, usually topping the Friday time sheets. While other teams held back and ran heavier on Fridays, even on their qualy runs.

Maybe he has continued with that practice. Nothing wrong with it though, except that it can be deceiving.



Drivers don't decide what to run its the team.

#1821 Paa

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 22:06

Everyone is quoting Lewis, that Merc doesn't have the DF level of last year's Mac. However, Button said something similar about the new Mac as well... And Vettel wasn't too excited about the new RB either.

With the new changes (DDRS, flexing FW) it is possible that top teams lost so much performace that they are actually slower or on par with last year's car and they need some more time to regain that performance.
While the other teams had much more room to improve.

I'm not implying anything with this, just trying to put things into perspective.

Edited by Paa, 23 February 2013 - 22:07.


#1822 dans79

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 22:17

Everyone is quoting Lewis, that Merc doesn't have the DF level of last year's Mac. However, Button said something similar about the new Mac as well... And Vettel wasn't too excited about the new RB either.

With the new changes (DDRS, flexing FW) it is possible that top teams lost so much performace that they are actually slower or on par with last year's car and they need some more time to regain that performance.
While the other teams had much more room to improve.


:up:




#1823 akshay380

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 23:30

Everyone is quoting Lewis, that Merc doesn't have the DF level of last year's Mac. However, Button said something similar about the new Mac as well... And Vettel wasn't too excited about the new RB either.

With the new changes (DDRS, flexing FW) it is possible that top teams lost so much performace that they are actually slower or on par with last year's car and they need some more time to regain that performance.
While the other teams had much more room to improve.

I'm not implying anything with this, just trying to put things into perspective.

I said that during Jerez test itself when some whiner boys quoted Lewis's MP4-27s downforce.
Interestingly these whiners have suddenly disappeared!

#1824 NoDivergence

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:19

I truly don't think the Mercedes has the downforce of the McLaren, but the tires are masking everyone's performance. They are so shit that everyone is backing way off so much that the gap between cars is shrinking. More development of the Mercedes and dealing with the tires will possibly close the gap to the front, even if the car is slightly downforce deficient

#1825 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 02:50

Drivers don't decide what to run its the team.


Teams will not ignore a drivers preference to do some qualy sims.

#1826 Seanspeed

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 03:19

Teams will not ignore a drivers preference to do some qualy sims.

How do you know?

#1827 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:07

How do you know?


Same way I know you're not a pink unicorn.

Anyway, here's a brief excerpt from the 2009 press conference in Monaco:

Q. Frank, we have seen the two drivers being very competitive on Friday and Saturday mornings. Is there a certain frustration that those performances are not being translated into results on Sunday?

FW: Yeah, the word is showboating perhaps.

Q. I didn't say that.

FW: Bit too much of that probably. Formula One always finds out the truth pretty quickly. If you are quick the race will tell you that you are quick or the public. In practice, you can fool people including yourself.


I think both Nakajima and Rosberg liked to do low fuel runs, back then. No reason to think Rosberg has lost that preference. If its a team thing, I don't see why they would stop doing it after their driver left.

Edited by boldhakka, 24 February 2013 - 08:08.


#1828 baddog

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:14

The driver's support team make many of those decisions, and Rosberg's side of the garage were VERY keen to do a low fuel run and get a high sheet time at the end of friday 1 and especially 2 sessions throughout the last couple of years. If you don't believe this then well, you can go back and look if you can find that info, because I am saying it is definitely true. It was a notable contrast from the policy of the other side of the garage where often no such run would be made.

Not really a big deal just a difference in focus, some drivers need that, some dont.

#1829 Zava

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:28

These cars do seem very fast. extremely fast. I mean for example 2010 Q3 was a 1:19.995 by Mark Webber, this in a car with double diffuser, EBD, F-duct and bridgestone tyres. I think Seanspeed might have a point here in that he mentioned that the cold temps could add anything up to a second to lap times. These laptimes are seriously fast and some of them were set at the beginning of 10-12 lap runs. Seems FIA can't really slow these cars down.

I know compounds have changed and limited use of DRS and also KERS but still......the times do seem fast

of course he is right, my fav. example of this is mercedes back from 2011, they posted a 1:21.2 on the final day, everyone was in awe and said they couldn't match the laptime, then came the actual barcelona weekend, where both merc drivers posted 1:22.6 laps, even though the car was updated.

#1830 Zava

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:29

Have we been told by roughly how much?

Hembery said something about 5 tenths.

#1831 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:04

Good old Nico:

Q: Speaking of speed, how welcome was your fastest lap on the first day here in Barcelona?
NR: To be honest, it is always a good feeling to be up there, no matter what people say.


:lol:

From the latest F1.com interview.

I would definitely take Nico's laptimes in the W04 with a grain of salt in practice and tests.

#1832 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:30

Teams will not ignore a drivers preference to do some qualy sims.


Yes, they definitely will. A driver has no 'preference' in that matter either.


#1833 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:46

Yes, they definitely will. A driver has no 'preference' in that matter either.


Wach as Rosberg regularly beats Hamilton in practice sessions in the W04 only to be much more closely matched or fall behind come qualifying. He likes seeing his name up there, as he himself says in the quote I provide above. Too bad you don't like hearing it.

Hamilton is a much better baramoter of the W04, for this and other reasons.

Edited by boldhakka, 24 February 2013 - 09:47.


#1834 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 09:52

Wach as Rosberg regularly beats Hamilton in practice sessions in the W04 only to be much more closely matched or fall behind come qualifying. He likes seeing his name up there, as he himself says in the quote I provide above. Too bad you don't like hearing it.

Hamilton is a much better baramoter of the W04, for this and other reasons.


??

what exactly are you talking about? What barometer??? You said a driver can decide to do a qualy sim in testing at his whim. The answer to that is NO.


#1835 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:00

??

what exactly are you talking about? What barometer??? You said a driver can decide to do a qualy sim in testing at his whim. The answer to that is NO.


:lol: I never said that. Hell of a strawman.

No, Szoelloe, you lost the original context. My original point (which wasn't even the one you responded to) was in response to this point (bolder part):

But that was not the reason the had nothing left in the tanks in Q3. Mercedes often was great on fridays to fall behind in q1. When other teams progressively got better over the weekend, Mercedes went backwards. I remember sometimes they even failed to reach their friday times and other teams pulled one second out of the bag. I don't know what the problem was. Perhaps they drove fast as they could on friday and other teams concentrated on race pace..


:wave:

See baddog's point above as well.

Edited by boldhakka, 24 February 2013 - 10:01.


#1836 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:04

Ok. my bad.

#1837 boldhakka

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:05

Ok. my bad.


No worries. We were getting off topic anyway.

It's nice that they seem to have overcome their tyre trouble, with Rosberg calling it a "massive step".

#1838 jj2728

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:43

We hardened fans are used to seeing hope in testing only to face a harsher reality when the season starts. I'll admit I'm a skeptic resisting hopes coaxing. I resist because I've been here before only to be let down, repeatedly. A bitter pill for the uninitiated.


What exactly do you mean by 'hardened fans'? And who are these unitiated?
Just wondering.
Anyhow, people have a tendency to read way too much into test sessions and testing times. It's more akin to reading tea leaves.

#1839 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:28

This thread is about the W04.


So let's talk.

Tell me why this car is going to be any different from the W03 in terms of performance?

They showed no understanding of anything regarding performance from April thru November.

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#1840 Kvothe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:33

So let's talk.

Tell me why this car is going to be any different from the W03 in terms of performance?

They showed no understanding of anything regarding performance from April thru November.


Completely different designer

Different suspension (not interlinked)

Not developed around a technical dead end such as DDRS

60% scale wind tunnel

A better driver?

Any more?



#1841 Szoelloe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:34

So let's talk.

Tell me why this car is going to be any different from the W03 in terms of performance?

They showed no understanding of anything regarding performance from April thru November.


I am not so sure about that. They understood enough not to do anything about it.

#1842 kedia990

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:35

Completely different designer

...

Any more?


+ Designed with coanda integrated, instead of a slap-on

+ Tighter packaging

+ Not very scientific this, but the front wing looks KILLER :lol:

#1843 study

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:37

Completely different designer

Different suspension (not interlinked)

Not developed around a technical dead end such as DDRS


I thought they was still going to have DDRS?

#1844 BernieEc

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:42

I thought they was still going to have DDRS?


DRD you mean. DDRS is banned and they are 2 totally different solutions

Edited by BernieEc, 24 February 2013 - 18:42.


#1845 dans79

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:44

where is all this hate coming from. some bitter posters in here.

I know what you mean, sometimes I wish we had virtual duct tape...

#1846 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 18:50

Completely different designer

Different suspension (not interlinked)

Not developed around a technical dead end such as DDRS

60% scale wind tunnel

A better driver?

Any more?


What does a 60% wind tunnel have to do with anything? Lewis has already made comments about the downforce and what he perceives to be lack of.

What were the technical dead ends that the W01 and W02 chased after?

Also what about the dead end such as tire wear? They never got ahold of the tire wear issue for the entire season last year. I'd wager the W04 has the same problems.

Didn't you notice how they started trying to put focus on the 2014 car?

#1847 D.M.N.

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 19:25

Hamilton vs Rosberg discussion goes here: http://forums.autosp...howtopic=178838

Car talk remains in this thread - it is as simple as that.

#1848 Kvothe

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 19:28

What does a 60% wind tunnel have to do with anything? Lewis has already made comments about the downforce and what he perceives to be lack of.

What were the technical dead ends that the W01 and W02 chased after?

Also what about the dead end such as tire wear? They never got ahold of the tire wear issue for the entire season last year. I'd wager the W04 has the same problems.

Didn't you notice how they started trying to put focus on the 2014 car?


You asked why the WO4 won't go the same way as the WO3 which was one of the fastest cars at the beginning of last season, and to the relatively informed the 60% tunnel is one of the biggest reasons. Not only because the WO3's in season development was severely hampered by the upgrade of the windtunnel during the middle of the season which took a few months and would have slowed any aerodynamic development to a crawl, but also because the 60% model a much more accurate model and they are now on par with teams such as McLaren and Red Bull in terms of developmental equipment which should help with in-season development.

Of course the W04 still lacks downforce compared to the overall fastest car of last season ( according to Button so does the MP4-28) the 60% wind tunnel isn't a magical fix or bullet to suddenly allow them to catch up straightaway with the already refined cars of the bigger teams, but as shown by Rosberg's comments the car is a massive improvement on last year, and even Lewis with his cautious comments has alluded to them being just behind the bigger teams, the fact that unlike most other teams they set a faster time in Barcelona; testing with a car on hard tyres, not yet at Melbourne spec, than they did during Q3 last year, and with at least 7 laps of fuel in is reason to be positive, even with the general chatter about cold weather, also a 60% scale model it is part of a longer term solution accompanied by many organisational changes and its in the long term that it should really bear fruit.

The dead end was partly related to the interlinked suspension which without knowing the real specifics offhand made it very hard to change the car settings to deal with the narrow operating Pirellis, and partly related to the lack of downforce a cause of which was DDRS (which the car was built around), which didn't allow them to pursue philosophies such as flexible front wings, severely compromised set-up ect and the lack of a workable Coanda exhaust system (delayed by the wind tunnel revamp). Button mentioned last year sometime around Silverstone when the MP4-27 had been struggling with the tyres that the car needed more downforce, because downforce can help mask other problems, and the WO3 just didn't have enough of it, and for a significant amount of time didn't have the available capacity to deal with it..

Of course they are placing some focus on 2014 when the new engine regs will come in, of which Mercedes will be one of the biggest beneficiaries; the rules offer the chance to shakeup the field massively, and if Mercedes want to win anything they would be foolish not to pour resources into a year which offers their best chance of winning anything in the short term. especially when the pecking order looks unlikely to change for 2013, however there has been nothing, and I repeat nothing to suggest they have put the focus on the 2014 car. They have two designs teams something which Ferrari another engine manufacturer also now have, and they have Bob Bell currently evaluating design concepts, but I've seen or read nothing that the focus has already shifted onto 2014, especially when considering the pressure on key figures within the team (including Brawn), and on Mercedes to do well in 2013 it wouldn't make any sense to do so.

As for tyre wear we'll have to wait and see, Rosberg seems convinced that the problems with the tyres is gone, and it seems looking at the laptimes that none of the teams really have a hold on them and that Mercedes isn't destroying them faster than the rest, however for now we'll have to wait and see.

Edit: Atrocious grammar, but whatever

Edited by Kvothe, 24 February 2013 - 19:38.


#1849 BoschKurve

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 19:37

Of course the W04 still lacks downforce compared to the overall fastest car of last season ( according to Button so does the MP4-28) the 60% wind tunnel isn't a magical fix or bullet to suddenly allow them to catch up straightaway with the already refined cars of the bigger teams, but as shown by Rosberg's comments the car is a massive improvement on last year, and even Lewis with his cautious comments has alluded to them being just behind the bigger teams, the fact that unlike most other teams they set a faster time in Barcelona; testing with a car on hard tyres, not yet at Melbourne spec, than they did during Q3 last year, and with at least 7 laps of fuel in is reason to be positive, even with the general chatter about cold weather, also a 60% scale model it is part of a longer term solution accompanied by many organisational changes and its in the long term that it should really bear fruit.


Here's the thing about testing whether it be Barcelona or Jerez. Until anyone knows what the specifics are of every stint a team (including Mercedes did) times should be given little credence. There's no way of knowing what the ballast loads were being run on any of the cars. We have no idea who was sandbagging.

The real thing that MGP needs to address with the W04 is how to generate efficient drag over the car. They spend a lot of time studying Red Bull without any real understanding that the efficiency greatly varies from car to car; what makes one car efficient is not necessarily going to work for another. If the car has less downforce than everyone else, they should be good at Monza and Spa along with Monaco.

#1850 dans79

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 19:54

The real thing that MGP needs to address with the W04 is how to generate efficient drag over the car.


Drag? Really......................