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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#1951 Markn93

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 15:50

Jenson is just trying to put LH/Merc on the spot, play mind games and call their bluff...

Not really, (maybe he is I can't say "no he's not" definitively) he just said from looking at testing times Merc look fast, which they do, (see fuel-adjusted lap time analysis, also NR's stint where times improved :drunk: ).


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#1952 Markn93

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 15:52

Why do people think that everything that people say in F1 has some secret, alternate motive?

Isn't that a law of the F1 world?

:p

#1953 BernieEc

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 15:56

Why do people think that everything that people say in F1 has some secret, alternate motive?

cos its easier to default to that than contain the excitement of your car being named amongst the best and you publicly wetting yourself in anticipation :)

#1954 bonjon1979a

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 16:19

Why do people think that everything that people say in F1 has some secret, alternate motive?

Fair comment but that reeked of a mclaren pr exercise. Why else would they bring in a reporter the day before the test, a day or so after losing their td other than to try and shape the narrative. Jb will have been briefed and the questions would have been agreed before it started. This wasn't a casual, post race interview that the drivers have to do. It will have been instigated by mclaren and organised for a very specific reason. We must therefore take jbs comments with a pinch of salt

#1955 SR388

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 16:34

Why do people think that everything that people say in F1 has some secret, alternate motive?


Because this is a sport where things are just as often decided with lawyers as they are with race cars.

Edited by SR388, 27 February 2013 - 16:34.


#1956 peroa

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 16:41

Why do people think that everything that people say in F1 has some secret, alternate motive?

Oh, that's so cute.

#1957 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 16:44

Fair comment but that reeked of a mclaren pr exercise. Why else would they bring in a reporter the day before the test, a day or so after losing their td other than to try and shape the narrative. Jb will have been briefed and the questions would have been agreed before it started. This wasn't a casual, post race interview that the drivers have to do. It will have been instigated by mclaren and organised for a very specific reason. We must therefore take jbs comments with a pinch of salt

That sounds very paranoid to me.

And I would think PR stuff like this is scheduled ahead of time.

#1958 bonjon1979a

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 17:22

That sounds very paranoid to me.

And I would think PR stuff like this is scheduled ahead of time.

You know me Sean! Still expect merc to be 5th fastest despite jbs words

#1959 mlsnoopy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 19:16

I think that we can all agree that Mercedes closed the gap on the frontrunners. Now if any of them run into problems they should be right there to pick up the points. If we look at Ferrari last year, they almost won the WDC, why couldn't Mercedes do something similar.

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#1960 1Devil1

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 19:25

I think that we can all agree that Mercedes closed the gap on the frontrunners. Now if any of them run into problems they should be right there to pick up the points. If we look at Ferrari last year, they almost won the WDC, why couldn't Mercedes do something similar.

Mercedes closed the gap to the front runners, which team member told you that? I don't where this speculation come from, we only saw some test times, nothing more. Mercedes could be on the same position as last year, we don't know the fuel load, we don't know the test program. Let's wait and see, after ten races you could think about the WDC. :drunk:



#1961 mlsnoopy

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 20:44

Mercedes closed the gap to the front runners, which team member told you that? I don't where this speculation come from, we only saw some test times, nothing more. Mercedes could be on the same position as last year, we don't know the fuel load, we don't know the test program. Let's wait and see, after ten races you could think about the WDC. :drunk:


So what do you think? That we shouldn't discuss what any of us saw in testing, how good or bad the car is. Ok

#1962 1Devil1

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 21:37

So what do you think? That we shouldn't discuss what any of us saw in testing, how good or bad the car is. Ok


Of course you should discuss the what you saw. But you should be careful to state something as fact (you think all agree) that can't be proven till the flag goes down in Melbourne. There is a difference between an assumption - Mercedes could be quite good looking at the test sheet or a fact : Mercedes closed the gap to the front runners - we all know that and agree on that

#1963 Masenco

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 21:50

Of course you should discuss the what you saw. But you should be careful to state something as fact (you think all agree) that can't be proven till the flag goes down in Melbourne. There is a difference between an assumption - Mercedes could be quite good looking at the test sheet or a fact : Mercedes closed the gap to the front runners - we all know that and agree on that



Indeed it is an assumption that the gap between merc and the front runners is smaller than last year, but through everything we've heard and seen from testing, trackside, aero analysis, team quotes ect, it is reasonable to assume.
We will find out by how much come melbourne.

Edited by Masenco, 27 February 2013 - 21:51.


#1964 baddog

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 00:25

Indeed it is an assumption that the gap between merc and the front runners is smaller than last year, but through everything we've heard and seen from testing, trackside, aero analysis, team quotes ect, it is reasonable to assume.


On the contrary, going into the season last year there was a reasonable case that Merc was the fastest car outright. This year that appears most definitely NOT to be the case. Ergo they have most certainly not gained time compared to the same period last year.

#1965 MP422

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 00:34

Of course you should discuss the what you saw. But you should be careful to state something as fact (you think all agree) that can't be proven till the flag goes down in Melbourne. There is a difference between an assumption - Mercedes could be quite good looking at the test sheet or a fact : Mercedes closed the gap to the front runners - we all know that and agree on that



It seems like you can't be sure they have not closed the gap, It goes both ways methinks. I think the final test will show a better picture of what to expect. Mercedes is much improved from the outset so it's not unconventional for someone to believe they may have closed the gap.

This sport has surprised me more then once.

#1966 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:05

On the contrary, going into the season last year there was a reasonable case that Merc was the fastest car outright. This year that appears most definitely NOT to be the case. Ergo they have most certainly not gained time compared to the same period last year.


What?? Merc have looked stronger this preseason than last one.

#1967 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:30

On the contrary, going into the season last year there was a reasonable case that Merc was the fastest car outright.

Not sure you could hire the best lawyer in the world to argue that case.

#1968 baddog

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 01:59

The only car faster outright AT THAT POINT was probably the mac. you forget so soon how lost ferrari, redbull etc were at the start of the season.

#1969 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 02:02

The only car faster outright AT THAT POINT was probably the mac. you forget so soon how lost ferrari, redbull etc were at the start of the season.

I haven't forgotten. I've rewatched the 2012 season the past couple months actually.

I think Red Bull and Lotus were faster overall. And Mclaren, of course. Even the race that Rosberg won, I think Mclaren was the faster car, but Button got caught behind Schumacher for too long in the beginning to challenge for the win.

Edited by Seanspeed, 28 February 2013 - 02:03.


#1970 baddog

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:46

You think that before melbourne lotus and redbull were faster? Lotus were a wildcard, with some real peaks in performance I will grant that, but redbull like ferrari were precisely nowhere at that point, and mac/merc were pretty much even at the top.

#1971 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 03:54

Vettel easily caught up to Schumi even though he was driving pretty badly (going wide all over the place). Merc might have been decent in qualifying but it was overheating the tires all year long which limited their race pace.

#1972 Shiroo

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 05:48

You think that before melbourne lotus and redbull were faster? Lotus were a wildcard, with some real peaks in performance I will grant that, but redbull like ferrari were precisely nowhere at that point, and mac/merc were pretty much even at the top.

are people trying to rewrite history or what? Mercedes sucked and that's the fact. Unless you want to prove that they had brilliant car but their drivers were slow. I still believe that if China wouldn't be as could as it was, they wouldn't win there. And I wonder how you can asume these things just from times [preseason]. With Ferrari, I do agree. But not with Red Bull Racing

Edited by Shiroo, 28 February 2013 - 05:51.


#1973 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:09

Vettel easily caught up to Schumi even though he was driving pretty badly (going wide all over the place). Merc might have been decent in qualifying but it was overheating the tires all year long which limited their race pace.


It wsn't overheating ther tyres all year long.

#1974 MaxisOne

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:47

It wsn't overheating ther tyres all year long.


Ok if you want to be specific... The W03 did not eat the tyres for China and Monaco...

Apart from those two tracks BigChrome is unfortunately spot on about the car overheating its tyres during the races last year. Especially after they started the coanda upgrade... The exhaust was overheating the tyres.. And the chassis suspension was already hard on them from the get go.

Ferrari couldnt get enough heat in the tyre for quali but had superb tyre management for race pace.. The W03 on the other hand could bring the tyres to heat quickly for quali and then rapidly move above of the optimal temp windows in race sim.

Edited by MaxisOne, 28 February 2013 - 06:54.


#1975 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:59

Ok if you want to be specific... The W03 did not eat the tyres for China and Monaco...

Apart from those two tracks BigChrome is unfortunately spot on about the car overheating its tyres during the races last year. Especially after they started the coanda upgrade... The exhaust was overheating the tyres.. And the chassis suspension was already hard on them from the get go.

Ferrari couldnt get enough heat in the tyre for quali but had superb tyre management for race pace.. The W03 on the other hand could bring the tyres to heat quickly for quali and then rapidly move above of the optimal temp windows in race sim.


I didn't say the car was not eating it's tyres all the time. I said it was not always overheating them. Yes, I was trying tobe specific. I have said before, yes, the only time when you could say that the car generally cooked its rear tyres was when they tried the coanda. Otherwise the tyre eating was not specifically an overheating problem. Sometimes it was the lack of heating.


#1976 tomjol

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:09

It seems like you can't be sure they have not closed the gap, It goes both ways methinks. I think the final test will show a better picture of what to expect. Mercedes is much improved from the outset so it's not unconventional for someone to believe they may have closed the gap.

This sport has surprised me more then once.


Yes it goes both ways, but the onus is on the person making the assertion to prove it, not others to prove the opposite.

What?? Merc have looked stronger this preseason than last one.


They have looked OK this pre-season. Last year as I remember they were looking pretty handy, everyone was worried about double DRS.

I haven't forgotten. I've rewatched the 2012 season the past couple months actually.

I think Red Bull and Lotus were faster overall. And Mclaren, of course. Even the race that Rosberg won, I think Mclaren was the faster car, but Button got caught behind Schumacher for too long in the beginning to challenge for the win.


I agree, but this is not following the topic, which is the apparent pace of the cars pre-Melbourne

Ok if you want to be specific... The W03 did not eat the tyres for China and Monaco...

Apart from those two tracks BigChrome is unfortunately spot on about the car overheating its tyres during the races last year. Especially after they started the coanda upgrade... The exhaust was overheating the tyres.. And the chassis suspension was already hard on them from the get go.

Ferrari couldnt get enough heat in the tyre for quali but had superb tyre management for race pace.. The W03 on the other hand could bring the tyres to heat quickly for quali and then rapidly move above of the optimal temp windows in race sim.


During the races, all of which came after testing, and the point of debate is about testing.

are people trying to rewrite history or what? Mercedes sucked and that's the fact. Unless you want to prove that they had brilliant car but their drivers were slow. I still believe that if China wouldn't be as could as it was, they wouldn't win there. And I wonder how you can asume these things just from times [preseason]. With Ferrari, I do agree. But not with Red Bull Racing


Everybody acknowledges that the car last year was flawed. This is about how things looked pre-Melbourne.

Does anybody in this thread actually read the posts they are replying to? :confused:

#1977 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:15

I remember in the preseason MS going to the presses and specifically trying to damage control and say that they weren't having huge tire problems when they most likely did.

I didn't say the car was not eating it's tyres all the time. I said it was not always overheating them. Yes, I was trying tobe specific. I have said before, yes, the only time when you could say that the car generally cooked its rear tyres was when they tried the coanda. Otherwise the tyre eating was not specifically an overheating problem. Sometimes it was the lack of heating.


The only time I recall them not getting enough heat into the tires was in Malaysia's rain. Other than that there were a lot of instances where they were specifically overheating the tires, even before the Coanda exhausts were added. Overheating the tires is just an effect of downforce deficiency.

#1978 dans79

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 07:57

I remember in the preseason MS going to the presses and specifically trying to damage control and say that they weren't having huge tire problems when they most likely did.



The only time I recall them not getting enough heat into the tires was in Malaysia's rain. Other than that there were a lot of instances where they were specifically overheating the tires, even before the Coanda exhausts were added. Overheating the tires is just an effect of downforce deficiency.

No, you are incorrect. early in the season they were using up the tires, because of low down force, and hi slippage angles. Both of witch where related to the ddrs.
Only when they started to mess with a conda exhaust did they cook the tyres.

#1979 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:02

You don't overheat the tires from high slip angles? That's news to me.

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#1980 JimboJones

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:26

Overheating the tires is just an effect of downforce deficiency.


No, you are incorrect. early in the season they were using up the tires, because of low down force, and hi slippage angles. Both of witch where related to the ddrs.
Only when they started to mess with a conda exhaust did they cook the tyres.


You don't overheat the tires from high slip angles? That's news to me.


Clearly, none of you have the slightest clue as to what heats tyres, so why bother arguing?
Caterham had less downforce, but they didn't overheat rear tyres??
DDRS doesn't even enter into it as it's used so rarely in the race
And if you don't think high slip increases temperature, maybe the drivers should attack the GP like a rally stage, that'll help!

#1981 Timstr11

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:32

No, you are incorrect. early in the season they were using up the tires, because of low down force, and hi slippage angles. Both of witch where related to the ddrs.
Only when they started to mess with a conda exhaust did they cook the tyres.

Where did you get this piece of information because it's nonsense.

#1982 Smitla321

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:47

Does anyone know what upgrades are on the car for this test? The W04 will be Melbourne spec now surely?

Can't wait to see some pics!

#1983 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 08:49

http://www.f1fanatic...tures/_mg_0080/

One pic here, but it doesn't show much.

#1984 jrg19

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:09

http://www.sutton-im...ded1328fe01.jpg

Bigger undercut on the side pods, also change in Petronas sponsorship.

#1985 skyform

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:24

Ah no luck for Hamilton, he already lost a day because of rain in the last test and he gets it again today, he really needs more dry testings.

#1986 Xeriks

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:30

Ah no luck for Hamilton, he already lost a day because of rain in the last test and he gets it again today, he really needs more dry testings.

He also lost a day in his first ever test for Mercedes, looks like he's brought over the bad luck he had at Mclaren!

#1987 skyform

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:41

He also lost a day in his first ever test for Mercedes, looks like he's brought over the bad luck he had at Mclaren!


I know but Nico lost it too but he had no problems since then while Lewis really seems to continue with the bad luck from last year. :|


#1988 jrg19

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:44

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

No monkey seat

Maybe new rear wing end plate?



#1989 TF110

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:01

Notice the difference to the bargeboard?
http://www.f1fanatic.../02/MG_0080.jpg

Edited by TF110, 28 February 2013 - 10:02.


#1990 amppatel

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:06

Notice the difference to the bargeboard?
http://www.f1fanatic.../02/MG_0080.jpg


NO, what is different?

#1991 Timstr11

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:14

I read somewhere they will run the melbourne package on sat and sun.

#1992 Markn93

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:15

Don't think the sidepods are new jrg19.

#1993 baddog

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:16

are people trying to rewrite history or what? Mercedes sucked and that's the fact. Unless you want to prove that they had brilliant car but their drivers were slow.

Ermm.. me? Are you sure you meant that?

My point is that they flattered to deceive enormously last year, going from very fast indeed before the start to pretty fast (Schumacher was second only in qualy performance to Hamilton all the way through Monaco) to absolutely dire if you look at the whole season. There is no reason to think they wont be a deck of cards this year again, it has been a pattern.

#1994 Markn93

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:17

I read somewhere they will run the melbourne package on sat and sun.

Expect so :up:

#1995 jrg19

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:38

Don't think the sidepods are new jrg19.


I think its the change in the petronas branding that threw me.

#1996 alframsey

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:39

On the contrary, going into the season last year there was a reasonable case that Merc was the fastest car outright. This year that appears most definitely NOT to be the case. Ergo they have most certainly not gained time compared to the same period last year.

I really don't remember there ever being a case for the Merc being the fastest car this time last year, ever. As far as I can remember everyone was saying the McLaren and RBR looked like they were on rails, the Lotus and Merc just behind with Ferrari floundering. Not once do I remember the Merc being considered the outright fastest car.

#1997 alframsey

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:45

You think that before melbourne lotus and redbull were faster? Lotus were a wildcard, with some real peaks in performance I will grant that, but redbull like ferrari were precisely nowhere at that point, and mac/merc were pretty much even at the top.

Are you just making this up as you go along? Nobody ever considered RBR to be 'nowhere', yes they had lost performance but were considered by most people watching and reading to be the second fastest car behind Macca. I can't find the articles atm because I'm not that great at find older articles.

#1998 SunnyENTP

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 10:58

He also lost a day in his first ever test for Mercedes, looks like he's brought over the bad luck he had at Mclaren!



And what about Nico who suffered mechanical issues on 2 separates days. And oh I guess the heavy rain scheduled for tomorrow affecting Nico does not count too? :rolleyes:

Edited by SunnyENTP, 28 February 2013 - 10:58.


#1999 F1Gui

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:02

I know but Nico lost it too but he had no problems since then while Lewis really seems to continue with the bad luck from last year. :|

All this wet running could prove to be useful to him though as usually we get one or two wet races in the fly away races. If we arrive at Albert Park or Sepang and its wet I can see Hamilton sticking it on the front row

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#2000 Xeriks

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:06

And what about Nico who suffered mechanical issues on 2 separates days. And oh I guess the heavy rain scheduled for tomorrow affecting Nico does not count too? :rolleyes:

I was replying to someone that was talking about Hamilton, of course Rosberg has encountered bad luck too in pre season testing, nowhere did I suggest that it was only effecting Hamilton and not Rosberg.