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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#151 MaxisOne

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:00

Hiring more staff does not inspire confidence? What a strange thing to say.


It would be to someone who doesn't invest the time to think about why the comment is made. Luckily its quite apparent others took the time to think about why I came to the conclusion I did.


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#152 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:02

I concur, it is late.


Late for what exactly? :lol:


#153 SunnyENTP

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:07

It would be to someone who doesn't invest the time to think about why the comment is made. Luckily its quite apparent others took the time to think about why I came to the conclusion I did.



No you added 1 + 1 and came up with Eleven. So how do you jump into conclusions that they need the staff for the 2013 car and not the 2014 considering they have 2 aero teams?

#154 MaxisOne

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:14

Late for what exactly? :lol:


Common now ... there's at least 5 to 6 aero positions needing to be filled according to the website. From the looks of the descriptions these aren't even management positions ... these are the grunt work people who you need to get the job done. The W04 is being unveiled in a few weeks. Unless most or all those Aero positions are for the W05 ( and I highly doubt it) The fact that SO MANY aero positions are presently open is concerning .. and yes filling them now is a tad late. (Yes I am aware of better late than never).

These are not unreasonable concerns.. Mercedes is not known for good aero development and the recruitment drive to fix this really does appear to be late. Especially if well qualified personnel are hard to find.

Hence the comments made above.

#155 MaxisOne

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:15

No you added 1 + 1 and came up with Eleven. So how do you jump into conclusions that they need the staff for the 2013 car and not the 2014 considering they have 2 aero teams?



No sir .. that's your assumption .. you took my comment and ran with it .. Im not going to entertain a conversation based on that premise.

Please note the follow up comment .. we will see. Which left the option open for me to be proven wrong ... but feel free to pounce on me like you know everything...

Edited by MaxisOne, 18 January 2013 - 18:18.


#156 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:38

Common now ... there's at least 5 to 6 aero positions needing to be filled according to the website. From the looks of the descriptions these aren't even management positions ... these are the grunt work people who you need to get the job done. The W04 is being unveiled in a few weeks. Unless most or all those Aero positions are for the W05 ( and I highly doubt it) The fact that SO MANY aero positions are presently open is concerning .. and yes filling them now is a tad late. (Yes I am aware of better late than never).

These are not unreasonable concerns.. Mercedes is not known for good aero development and the recruitment drive to fix this really does appear to be late. Especially if well qualified personnel are hard to find.

Hence the comments made above.


Its funny you came to that conclusion. You should know(though I doubt that), that there in fact are two teams working in the design department. We know Willis is heading the W05 project. So you seriously think that they are so dumb that they are trying to fill jobs for the W04 project - which is all but finished - and are hiring people with a Jan 31 application deadline? They have said - MS has said that too quite recently - several times that they have a strong structure in place now, and have no restraints whatsoever to keep them from developing in-season. It does not seem to dawn on you that if they have a W05 design in the making, fro which we know they have a separate team, which is not interfering in/with the design and development process of the W04, that they will actually expand that team with extra aero workforce for scale-model production, windtunnel analysis and work, because by mid-season this year, they will actually have to be testing the W05, on which they are working since early last year. Those are exactly the jobs on opening. Its NOT a fix. Its further expansion. Hence my morning comment "nice". this all relates well to the discussion about the 'budget' dummies. This seems to be a pretty committed team to me. Brawn written all over it. Ferrari are in recruitment in similar way, too, by the way. For the exact same reasons and objective. bah...

edited for typos

Edited by Szoelloe, 18 January 2013 - 18:41.


#157 MP422

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:39

Hiring more staff does not inspire confidence? What a strange thing to say.


I'm with you on this.

#158 MaxisOne

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 19:06

I have followed and supported this team from Brawn Gp.. your assumption of me not knowing about the two design teams is way off the mark.
However, since inception Mercdes gp has not demonstrated a capability for top rate development especially in terms of aero. I therefore do not think it unreasonable to have doubts remain regardless of what Ross or anyone for that matter says.

My days of looking at this team with the glass half full ended last season. Ive had way too many excuses levied for poor performance in numerous aspects including development.

if you want to think that these aero postings are exclusively for the remit of the w05 you are entitled to think so. But until I see a complete season of sustained development on the present car I will remain concerned.

not much more to add there.

#159 jjcale

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 19:19

Sorry if I've missed this somewhere but do we know who is going to be Lewis' engineer?


We know nothing ... Merc needs to hire a PR officer while they are at it.

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#160 andrewf1

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 19:20

I have followed and supported this team from Brawn Gp.. your assumption of me not knowing about the two design teams is way off the mark.
However, since inception Mercdes gp has not demonstrated a capability for top rate development especially in terms of aero. I therefore do not think it unreasonable to have doubts remain regardless of what Ross or anyone for that matter says.

My days of looking at this team with the glass half full ended last season. Ive had way too many excuses levied for poor performance in numerous aspects including development.

if you want to think that these aero postings are exclusively for the remit of the w05 you are entitled to think so. But until I see a complete season of sustained development on the present car I will remain concerned.

not much more to add there.


i agree with you that the team has made it's fans pessimistic, but hiring that amount of workforce for the current W04 project would speak of desperation - a situation i don't think they're in. therefore i believe it's a lot more likely that this staff will be used for the W05 project.

Edited by andrewf1, 18 January 2013 - 19:21.


#161 Szoelloe

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 19:31

We know nothing ... Merc needs to hire a PR officer while they are at it.


OMG, wouldn't that be a friggin' miracle. Actually being a little more 'fan-friendly'. Less guesswork, more subjective debate.


#162 Timstr11

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 19:52

It could be a new planned phase of hiring for the aero department.
Quite possible that extra funds only became available with the start of the new financial year. Not uncommon in many companies.

Any extra staff is good for both in-season W04 devlopment as well as W05 development. It simply means more capacity in the aero department so they can have appropriate resources working on both projects simultaneously.

#163 Sakae

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 19:52

Late for what exactly? :lol:

Late for them to have impact on the Start of 2013 season. It will take time for them to be indoctrinated on team's policies and procedures, and then develop some projects to which they can stamp their signature as their own. I thought that you would have known that, but maybe I am giving you too much credit. Possibility also exist, and should not be disregarded, that they might be allocated to developments on 2014 model, thus taking some off-load of the 2013 team.

Edited by Sakae, 18 January 2013 - 20:03.


#164 dans79

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 20:02

How about maybe it's as simple as they just want to grow the staff, so maybe a grunt could take a sick day.... It's always better to have more staff than needed, as it creates a buffer for the unforeseen.

#165 jav

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 20:05

I have followed and supported this team from Brawn Gp.. your assumption of me not knowing about the two design teams is way off the mark.
However, since inception Mercdes gp has not demonstrated a capability for top rate development especially in terms of aero. I therefore do not think it unreasonable to have doubts remain regardless of what Ross or anyone for that matter says.

My days of looking at this team with the glass half full ended last season. Ive had way too many excuses levied for poor performance in numerous aspects including development.

if you want to think that these aero postings are exclusively for the remit of the w05 you are entitled to think so. But until I see a complete season of sustained development on the present car I will remain concerned.

not much more to add there.



+1 !


Hint- some took the Blue pill NEO.

Edited by jav, 18 January 2013 - 20:52.


#166 dans79

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 22:05

Hint- some took the Blue pill NEO.



some are just overly pessimistic by nature....

#167 Boxerevo

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:38

I was looking some races again and my goodness,if Schumacher or Rosberg did get a good qualify position,on the race day they were owned by the competition.

People passing them everywhere every lap.

Pray Lewis. :eek:

Edited by Boxerevo, 19 January 2013 - 09:39.


#168 Masenco

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:35

Just read an interview from pat fry (has its own thread on the forum) where he talks about how the pace of the ferrari was largely dependant on the track suiting the front and rear suspension.

Makes me think that ross might be on a masterstroke with this changable suspension system planned for the w04. Hopefully it works as planned!!

#169 Schumacher7

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:47

Just read an interview from pat fry (has its own thread on the forum) where he talks about how the pace of the ferrari was largely dependant on the track suiting the front and rear suspension.

Makes me think that ross might be on a masterstroke with this changeable suspension system planned for the w04. Hopefully it works as planned!!

Just like he was with the DDRS?

#170 TheSpecialOne

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:54

Just like he was with the DDRS?


Yeah, because when one thing doesn't work, anything else a person ever comes up with is destined to fail? I assume you we're asleep 2000-2004?

Not saying it will work, but sweeping generalisations like this are the bane of this forum.

Edited by TheSpecialOne, 19 January 2013 - 11:56.


#171 Szoelloe

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:59

Just like he was with the DDRS?


I understand you are butthurt because of MS, and the past three seasons. But in that same interview PF said they might have gone for the Merc-type DDRS if they would not have had other priorities with their car development. So the answer to your question is yes.


#172 TF110

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:36

The double DRS was a system that they spent too much time on that didn't give them the gains that other areas could have. Brawn admitted that.

#173 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:40

The double DRS was a system that they spent too much time on that didn't give them the gains that other areas could have. Brawn admitted that.


No shit Sherlock. That wasn"t the debate though.

#174 DS27

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 15:16

Makes me think that ross might be on a masterstroke with this changable suspension system planned for the w04. Hopefully it works as planned!!


Perhaps Merc can spend this year trying to understand their own suspension, rather than the tyres at every race. (sorry, I'm still bitter..)

Edited by DS27, 21 January 2013 - 15:17.


#175 weston

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 15:48

OMG, wouldn't that be a friggin' miracle. Actually being a little more 'fan-friendly'. Less guesswork, more subjective debate.


Toto Wolff likes PR stints. Together with Lauda they will be PR heavy.

(Wolff /30%/ and Lauda /10%/ is about to take stakes in MGP. The Haug - Brawn era is definitely over. I guess Brawn is also on the way to leave the team. )

Edited by weston, 21 January 2013 - 16:14.


#176 Szoelloe

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 16:35

Toto Wolff likes PR stints. Together with Lauda they will be PR heavy.

(Wolff /30%/ and Lauda /10%/ is about to take stakes in MGP. The Haug - Brawn era is definitely over. I guess Brawn is also on the way to leave the team. )


Reasonable. Not so sure about Brawn though, but I'll hold further judgement of my own on this until things unfold. I can't really see clearly as to what they are achieving with this. Change is certainly happening.


#177 Masenco

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 17:46

yeah babyy
https://twitter.com/i/#!/MercedesAMGF1/....com%2FXt2Yhk0T

#178 maxx7

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 19:12

this is a joke :eek: http://sportbild.bil...u-mercedes.html

#179 jrg19

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 19:20

this is a joke :eek: http://sportbild.bil...u-mercedes.html


This is massive if he joins for both Mercedes and McLaren.

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#180 BigCHrome

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:03

Queue our resident management PhD's claiming that there are too many bosses in the team.

Edited by BigCHrome, 21 January 2013 - 22:13.


#181 TheSpecialOne

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:27

Queue our resident management PhD's claiming that there are too many bosses in the team.


Yeah, this always irks me, can never have enough talent, whatever the organisation.

Besides, don't the critics know, throw enough monkeys in a room and you'll create Shakespeare?;)

#182 SR388

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:36

Merc is making it rain, and we are picking up talent from every corner.

#183 Nycco

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:37

How many designers does that team need to make a proper car ? I mean Lowe is like the 6th or 7th star designer they hire...

#184 SR388

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:41

How many designers does that team need to make a proper car ? I mean Lowe is like the 6th or 7th star designer they hire...


They could make it a contest! Each designer makes his own car, then Merc builds one of each, tests them and the fastest gets the nod!

#185 dans79

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:54

They could make it a contest! Each designer makes his own car, then Merc builds one of each, tests them and the fastest gets the nod!



That's how the top aerospace companies do it. planes like the F-22 Raptor and the like come to fruition after internal competitions. The company forms multiple internal design teams, and after a certain point the company takes the best bits of each design and incorporates them into the 'final' design!

#186 TF110

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 23:48

No shit Sherlock. That wasn"t the debate though.

Look kid, I don't know who you are, nor do I care, but lay off the dumb smart aleck replies. It was relevant to the discussion. If you can't realize that there's no reason to comment. :rolleyes:

It was a response to the person who said something along the lines of making gains but pointing to the DDRS as one of them that didn't work. He admitted he made a mistake chasing something that wasn't going to gain them the time they wanted. You learn from your mistakes. Well, at least some of us do. Not sure you will with your useless replies.

Edited by TF110, 21 January 2013 - 23:52.


#187 MP422

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:28

Looks like MB wants to win.

#188 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:40

History reflects that the teams that generally have sustained success over a period of time exhibit stability, as well as a chief designer who dictates where the car goes.

There's a reason we remember Colin Chapman, Adrian Newey, Rory Byrne, Gordon Murray, and John Barnard.

#189 baddog

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:50

That's how the top aerospace companies do it. planes like the F-22 Raptor and the like come to fruition after internal competitions. The company forms multiple internal design teams, and after a certain point the company takes the best bits of each design and incorporates them into the 'final' design!

Yes but they have 20 year timescales, vast budgets and nice fat government contracts. a LITTLE different to a car built in 6 months to be used for 9.

#190 Sakae

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:14

How many designers does that team need to make a proper car ? I mean Lowe is like the 6th or 7th star designer they hire...

My guess is that they are conceptualizing actually several cars. W04 and then variants of W05. You have body, chassis, and powertrain, thus there is a lot of work all around. More of concern is potential clash of individual egos.

#191 Timstr11

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:32

If Lowe comes on board I can see him threaten Bob Bell's TD role.

Other than that I don't understand this ''too many designers'' argument.

Every team has a Team Principal - Brawn
Every team has a Technical Director who's responsibility is more on a higher strategic level rather than overseeing day-to-day design.
I'm sure all leading teams have a Head of Simulation responsible for the technologies used for smulation (WindTunnel, Simulator, CFD etc.) - Geoff Willis
All teams have a Chief Designer role leading the design project of car - Aldo Costa for the W04
All teams have a Head of aero responsible for the shape of the car -Elliott.

The fact that some of these guys had TD roles at other teams is not relevant as their role is different now.
Unless they let their egos get in the way, which would mean they're not doing the job according to their task description.

Edited by Timstr11, 22 January 2013 - 08:33.


#192 Pizdek

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:43

There s always space for great engenires like Paddy. Bring him on Merc!!

Any news about a car?, there were many infos in last few years even before lauch day..

#193 nomi

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:55

I take it at this rate Mercedes is gonna have a monster of a car this season.

#194 Timstr11

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:57

I take it at this rate Mercedes is gonna have a monster of a car this season.

Simply by hiring people who have barely started working for the team, if at all?

#195 Owen

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:02

I take it at this rate Mercedes is gonna have a monster of a car this season.

Maybe next year you could claim that...

#196 ViMaMo

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:14

With split teams working on alternate years, would the hiring make sense?

Edited by ViMaMo, 22 January 2013 - 09:15.


#197 peroa

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:25

With split teams working on alternate years, would the hiring make sense?

Of course it would, and if you can't get Newey you get the man who's cars came nearest to his performance level in the past 3 years.

#198 carbonfibre

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:34

So Mercedes finally starts making changes and investing more money? Too bad they didn't do that a lot earlier then maybe they could have given Schumacher a better farewell...

#199 Pizdek

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:38

Simply by hiring people who have barely started working for the team, if at all?

I dont know who are new people but Costa Willis Bell are more than a whole year working for company and this W04 will be their car...

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#200 Pizdek

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:40

So Mercedes finally starts making changes and investing more money? Too bad they didn't do that a lot earlier then maybe they could have given Schumacher a better farewell...


Why is that, he has victorys more than all of tham...

They can get a right car and give it to Nico and Lewis now!!