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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#201 SunnyENTP

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:13

So Mercedes finally starts making changes and investing more money? Too bad they didn't do that a lot earlier then maybe they could have given Schumacher a better farewell...



He has the chance to stay but he chose not to. He would have been privy to whatever information convinced Lewis to join.

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#202 Timstr11

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:41

I dont know who are new people but Costa Willis Bell are more than a whole year working for company and this W04 will be their car...

The poster was referring to Wolff and Lowe.

#203 Obi Offiah

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:45

Yes but they have 20 year timescales, vast budgets and nice fat government contracts. a LITTLE different to a car built in 6 months to be used for 9.

+ under resource restrictions.

#204 femi

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:03

yeah babyy
https://twitter.com/i/#!/MercedesAMGF1/....com%2FXt2Yhk0T



This is not surprising really, Pat Fry went to Ferrari and I bet Alonso was crucial to that. He must have given Ferrari which of the Mclaren top guns to poach. Pat Fry then drew a few others away from Mclaren to join him at Ferrari.

We are seeing the pattern unfolding and I bet there will be a few more Mclaren hot shots leaving for Merc.

Edited by femi, 22 January 2013 - 12:06.


#205 carbonfibre

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:06

Why is that, he has victorys more than all of tham...

They can get a right car and give it to Nico and Lewis now!!

Sure but if they had done this right from that start then maybe they would have gotten more victory's then Nico's one now. They just underestimated the job and now after three seasons they finally start spending some money in order to get to the front.

I just think they could have done this a lot sooner and therefore could have made much bigger gains at the start of their project.

#206 Szoelloe

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:26

Why do I have the feeling the Mercedes board went into panic mode? If this is Lauda's first move, there is a real shitstorm coming, and with the noises that were coming from Williams, they are more than happy to see Wolff on the other side of the door. Wolff is effectively TP now, that seems to be quite clear, holding hands with Lauda. That does not bode well for the future. I may be giving Wolff the benefit of doubt, but if Lauda goes berserk, and activates himself as the boss of Wolff, this is not going to work for long, and they could collapse as a team. I do hope this settles down asap. For the moment, this seems to be a mess, and Brawn leaving seems to be inevitable, though not necessarily this season, if not by his own decision sooner. This came out of nowhere, really. It may give a whole new meaning to the Hamilton career mistake thread too. Plus all this 2 weeks before Jerez. Unsettling.

#207 senna da silva

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:01

Why do I have the feeling the Mercedes board went into panic mode? If this is Lauda's first move, there is a real shitstorm coming, and with the noises that were coming from Williams, they are more than happy to see Wolff on the other side of the door. Wolff is effectively TP now, that seems to be quite clear, holding hands with Lauda. That does not bode well for the future. I may be giving Wolff the benefit of doubt, but if Lauda goes berserk, and activates himself as the boss of Wolff, this is not going to work for long, and they could collapse as a team. I do hope this settles down asap. For the moment, this seems to be a mess, and Brawn leaving seems to be inevitable, though not necessarily this season, if not by his own decision sooner. This came out of nowhere, really. It may give a whole new meaning to the Hamilton career mistake thread too. Plus all this 2 weeks before Jerez. Unsettling.


I guess that all depends on whether this is unfolding as we speak or has been in the works for some time.

#208 BernieEc

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:05

I guess that all depends on whether this is unfolding as we speak or has been in the works for some time.

Or just a mere rumour.... :)

#209 Szoelloe

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:14

I guess that all depends on whether this is unfolding as we speak or has been in the works for some time.


It has to have been in the works for some time, at least in Lauda's head. Wolff, by his own words, has not even visited Brackley yet, so it is unfolding as we speak too. he said he has only spoken to Brawn as yet. Brawn himself has not spoken a word, and on paper, he is the TP. Lauda is silent as a fish, and seems to be pulling the strings. I am really curious as to who will show up at Jerez when they present the car, and for the media throughout the tests.


#210 senna da silva

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:14

Or just a mere rumour.... :)


Well you've got to figure the Wolff and Lauda purchase of Aabar shares was in the works for some time. Lauda has been active with Merc for some time now and was instrumental in the negotiation with Lewis.
If the story of Lowe moving with Wolff is true then that move must of been planned for some time as well as the rumour suggests he was going to Williams to work with Toto.
I hope this management team is more effective at steering car development throughout 2013 than has been the case over the last few years at MGP.

#211 senna da silva

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:19

I am really curious as to who will show up at Jerez when they present the car, and for the media throughout the tests.


:up:

#212 Massa_f1

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:21

Just where on earth is all this money coming from for Mercedes to have all these people on the payroll?

Maybe they should of put more effort into there past 2011 and 2012 cars than employing what seems at the moment to be everybody in F1. They will need bigger pit wall to fit all there main staff on.

#213 Szoelloe

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:26

Just where on earth is all this money coming from for Mercedes to have all these people on the payroll?

Maybe they should of put more effort into there past 2011 and 2012 cars than employing what seems at the moment to be everybody in F1. They will need bigger pit wall to fit all there main staff on.


?? Merc has all the money they want to. As you say, they had it 2 years ago too. This is not a question of dough. It is how they spend it. If they do a Toyota, God help us all.

Edited by Szoelloe, 22 January 2013 - 18:27.


#214 DutchCruijff

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:38

?? Merc has all the money they want to. As you say, they had it 2 years ago too. This is not a question of dough. It is how they spend it. If they do a Toyota, God help us all.

Why "God help us all"? We'll lose Mercedes, hardly a big deal, but won't lose their engines, considering their investments and commitments to the new regs.

#215 senna da silva

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:51

Why "God help us all"? We'll lose Mercedes, hardly a big deal, but won't lose their engines, considering their investments and commitments to the new regs.


That didn't stop Honda from pulling out when they had the fastest car on the grid already designed. That didn't stop Toyota from pulling out after investing in the best facilities and wind tunnel in F1. That didn't stop BMW from pulling out. This is always a fear with a major manufacturer. I think it would be a major loss to lose Mercedes in F1, however I believe they're committed to the F1 brand now and are here for the long term, Mercedes is and always has been connected to GP racing, if it hadn't been for the LeMans accident in 1955 they never would have ceased to participate. They have now been a part of the grid since 1993, 20 years.

#216 jav

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:51

..... This came out of nowhere, really. It may give a whole new meaning to the Hamilton career mistake thread too. Plus all this 2 weeks before Jerez. Unsettling.


These are big moves but I don't think they came out of nowhere... some might even say they expected them sooner (me being one of those).

Not that I don't like Brawn- I do... but the fact is that other than the Brawn GP semi season domination and victory in 2009, which could be argued was an anomoly, his recent guidance has under delivered and over excused. They have trended downward as each season has progressed and changes made to reverse the trend have not worked.

Perhaps 2013 will be the turn around year for this team but given their track record, the board seems more confident that a fresh start is more likely to produce better results than the devolution this crew has becomeknown for. I can't fault that logic.

If they don't rework this team now, and they have another bad season in 2013, then 2014 (and the new engine) will likely suffer as well. It's much easier to justify another bad (2013) with a new crew working for the future. If this team does have a great season, despite their conservative estimates, there's certainly grounds to suggest it was too little too late.

#217 Szoelloe

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 18:59

These are big moves but I don't think they came out of nowhere... some might even say they expected them sooner (me being one of those).

Not that I don't like Brawn- I do... but the fact is that other than the Brawn GP semi season domination and victory in 2009, which could be argued was an anomoly, his recent guidance has under delivered and over excused. They have trended downward as each season has progressed and changes made to reverse the trend have not worked.

Perhaps 2013 will be the turn around year for this team but given their track record, the board seems more confident that a fresh start is more likely to produce better results than the devolution this crew has becomeknown for. I can't fault that logic.

If they don't rework this team now, and they have another bad season in 2013, then 2014 (and the new engine) will likely suffer as well. It's much easier to justify another bad (2013) with a new crew working for the future. If this team does have a great season, despite their conservative estimates, there's certainly grounds to suggest it was too little too late.


I agree. For a shake-up, it is the last possible moment too. I don't have a problem with that. It may seem at the moment that the technical structure set up so far may not even suffer, at least not on the short term, and that is the way it should be. What I have a problem with is giving Lauda and Wolff a 40% stake in the F1 team between them. THAT is going to be a huge problem, IMHO.


#218 jav

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 19:18

...What I have a problem with is giving Lauda and Wolff a 40% stake in the F1 team between them. THAT is going to be a huge problem, IMHO.


I have mixed feelings on that one. Merc bought out (supposedly in a planned way) Brawns interest in the team. I figured his was done because either : A) Merc wanted an F1 team and/or sole control or B) Brawn negotiated that and want to divest himself (cash out).

This latest release of shares seems to support that either Mercedes has had a change of heart (if it was option A) OR it was never option A and Brawn wanted out. If it was option B, I have to wonder why they stuck with Brawn given his divestment and lack of results?

Perhaps having some principles with skin in the game is a good thing.

#219 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 19:25

I agree. For a shake-up, it is the last possible moment too. I don't have a problem with that. It may seem at the moment that the technical structure set up so far may not even suffer, at least not on the short term, and that is the way it should be. What I have a problem with is giving Lauda and Wolff a 40% stake in the F1 team between them. THAT is going to be a huge problem, IMHO.


It's not giving. They bought shares.

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#220 DutchCruijff

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 19:28

That didn't stop Honda from pulling out when they had the fastest car on the grid already designed. That didn't stop Toyota from pulling out after investing in the best facilities and wind tunnel in F1. That didn't stop BMW from pulling out. This is always a fear with a major manufacturer. I think it would be a major loss to lose Mercedes in F1, however I believe they're committed to the F1 brand now and are here for the long term, Mercedes is and always has been connected to GP racing, if it hadn't been for the LeMans accident in 1955 they never would have ceased to participate. They have now been a part of the grid since 1993, 20 years.

Major difference, Mercedes are winning with McLaren-Mercedes.

#221 senna da silva

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 19:29

I have mixed feelings on that one. Merc bought out (supposedly in a planned way) Brawns interest in the team. I figured his was done because either : A) Merc wanted an F1 team and/or sole control or B) Brawn negotiated that and want to divest himself (cash out).

This latest release of shares seems to support that either Mercedes has had a change of heart (if it was option A) OR it was never option A and Brawn wanted out. If it was option B, I have to wonder why they stuck with Brawn given his divestment and lack of results?

Perhaps having some principles with skin in the game is a good thing.


I thought Wolff and Lauda bought the Aabar 40%.

#222 jav

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 19:44

News reports suggest both are "stake holders in the (MGP) F1 team"

Edited by jav, 22 January 2013 - 19:47.


#223 senna da silva

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 19:57

Major difference, Mercedes are winning with McLaren-Mercedes.


True.

#224 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 20:26

I thought Wolff and Lauda bought the Aabar 40%.


I think so, too. 30% to Wolff, 10% to Lauda.

#225 r4mses

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 20:28

I think so, too. 30% to Wolff, 10% to Lauda.


That's what happened. According to F.A.Z.

#226 jav

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 20:43

http://www.nicorosberg.com/

Third story down. Seems pretty specific.

#227 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 20:46

I believe the end result is that MGP is going to sell off the F1 team, and what we see here is the groundwork for a sale likely to Toto Wolff and some smaller investors. I suspect whenever he divests of the Williams shares, you'll see him buy another huge chunk of MGP that gives him majority control, as well as a name change to something else obviously.

#228 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 20:47

I thought it was 100% Daimler after the Aabar sale.

#229 Andy35

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 20:50

With consistent rules into 2013 surely you would want a consistent team?

Redbull and Ferrari must be laughing currently.

You have to start the season on a positive foot, what are Mclaren and Mercedes doing in this regard?

:confused:

Andy

#230 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 20:54

I thought it was 100% Daimler after the Aabar sale.


It was for a small period of time.

#231 Szoelloe

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 21:26

It's not giving. They bought shares.


They sold the shares to them. That is what I meant. That actually let them buy it.

#232 r4mses

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 21:29

I think - well, I hope - Lauda's 10% are just there for symbolic reasons. To show the outside he's commited to the team.

#233 pinkypants

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 21:31

With consistent rules into 2013 surely you would want a consistent team?

Redbull and Ferrari must be laughing currently.

You have to start the season on a positive foot, what are Mclaren and Mercedes doing in this regard?

:confused:

Andy



As a fan of McLaren and a supporter of Lewis, this season hasn't started off so well!! Wonder how many more surprises are still to come :/

#234 Szoelloe

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 21:40

Just to tone down a bit: If Wolff takes the everyday non-tech related management tasks off Brawn's shoulders(which he quite obviously lacked in anyway), Lauda stays out of the management, lets them work, and goes into Marko-style barking mode(and licks LH's ass like Marko does to Vettel), while they let Brawn do the rest, this could even end well. Bar for Nico Rosberg, of course. He could find himself in a Webber-like situation. Ideally. which is a tad naive to expect, but still.

#235 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 21:42

I think - well, I hope - Lauda's 10% are just there for symbolic reasons. To show the outside he's commited to the team.


As long as Mercedes has majority ownership, the rest matters very little.

#236 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 21:42

Sometimes words speak volumes when it comes to Lauda.

So when Lauda appeared before the international motor-racing press in a disco-lit hangar in Milton Keynes, it was in his customary of uniform of jeans, V-neck jumper, well-cut jacket and – his own red badge of courage – the Parmalat baseball cap which he wears to hide the scars on his head. He had, unusually, put on a tie (at his wedding he had to borrow one from his best man), and though the effect was undermined by the fact that one of his fly buttons was undone, the discovery is unlikely to have fazed him.


Edited by BoschKurve, 22 January 2013 - 21:43.


#237 slmk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 21:47

Just to tone down a bit: If Wolff takes the everyday non-tech related management tasks off Brawn's shoulders(which he quite obviously lacked in anyway), Lauda stays out of the management, lets them work, and goes into Marko-style barking mode(and licks LH's ass like Marko does to Vettel), while they let Brawn do the rest, this could even end well. Bar for Nico Rosberg, of course. He could find himself in a Webber-like situation. Ideally. which is a tad naive to expect, but still.


Truth is, Nico matters very little in the grand scheme of things. If Mercedes felt the need to approach the big guns, it's probably because they felt Nico isn't up to stuff to lead the team to glory.

#238 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 22:16

Sometimes words speak volumes when it comes to Lauda.


Nit-picking maybe, but Lauda wears the cap because they pay him a lot to do so. He does not care about hiding his scars.

#239 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 22:20

And he looks a complete tool when he wears it in inappropriate settings.

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#240 BigCHrome

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 22:31

Why do I have the feeling the Mercedes board went into panic mode? If this is Lauda's first move, there is a real shitstorm coming, and with the noises that were coming from Williams, they are more than happy to see Wolff on the other side of the door. Wolff is effectively TP now, that seems to be quite clear, holding hands with Lauda. That does not bode well for the future. I may be giving Wolff the benefit of doubt, but if Lauda goes berserk, and activates himself as the boss of Wolff, this is not going to work for long, and they could collapse as a team. I do hope this settles down asap. For the moment, this seems to be a mess, and Brawn leaving seems to be inevitable, though not necessarily this season, if not by his own decision sooner. This came out of nowhere, really. It may give a whole new meaning to the Hamilton career mistake thread too. Plus all this 2 weeks before Jerez. Unsettling.


Sigh.

#241 BoschKurve

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 23:12

Sigh.


As I always say, just ask Bobby Rahal if you want to know how good Lauda is for a F1 team.

#242 senna da silva

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 23:22

As I always say, just ask Bobby Rahal if you want to know how good Lauda is for a F1 team.


You might not say that if Newey hadn't reneged on his Jag contract.

#243 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 23:38

And he looks a complete tool when he wears it in inappropriate settings.


That's another thing he does not care about :)


#244 BigCHrome

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 01:25

As I always say, just ask Bobby Rahal if you want to know how good Lauda is for a F1 team.


You don't seem to understand what Lauda's role is.

#245 BoschKurve

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 02:33

You don't seem to understand what Lauda's role is.


Lauda is not there for any useful reason. In fact the idea of Lauda being useful is an oxymoron in itself.

#246 pinkypants

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:57

Well Joe Saward believes that Ross isn't going to Williams... I can't see him going back to Ferrari. Lotus and Mclaren are the only two real possibilities left...

rossgreen10
Joe,
Do you think that there is a chance to see Ross at Williams?

on January 23, 2013 at 4:04 pm | ReplyJoe Saward
None


http://joesaward.wor...#comment-137156


James Allen thinks it's more likely to be stay at Mercedes or retire for Ross :/

"James Allen Reply:
January 22nd, 2013 at 10:22 pm

I’d imagine he’d be more likely to retire than go back to Maranello, but you never know in this game

BBC Online colleagues are very confident on this one (as they were on Hamilton to Merc story last year). They’ve been working on it for some time and have plenty of back up, so watch this space.."

http://www.jamesalle...brawn/#comments

Edited by pinkypants, 24 January 2013 - 03:07.


#247 Sakae

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:33

Well Joe Saward believes that Ross isn't going to Williams... I can't see him going back to Ferrari. Lotus and Mclaren are the only two real possibilities left...

rossgreen10
Joe,
Do you think that there is a chance to see Ross at Williams?

on January 23, 2013 at 4:04 pm | ReplyJoe Saward
None


http://joesaward.wor...#comment-137156


James Allen thinks it's more likely to be stay at Mercedes or retire for Ross :/

"James Allen Reply:
January 22nd, 2013 at 10:22 pm

I’d imagine he’d be more likely to retire than go back to Maranello, but you never know in this game

BBC Online colleagues are very confident on this one (as they were on Hamilton to Merc story last year). They’ve been working on it for some time and have plenty of back up, so watch this space.."

http://www.jamesalle...brawn/#comments

Pretty messy just a few days before a season starts.

#248 TF110

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:23

Theres no reason to think he's going anywhere. Not yet at least.

#249 Markn93

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 18:54

Nico Rosberg ‏@nico_rosberg
I drove the new car in the simulator the last 2 days. Quick but still some work to do!! Cant wait to try the real thing!!!

#250 jrg19

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 19:00

Quick... guess there is hope for Lewis this year.