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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#2451 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 20:54

so has the issue with the 1.20.8 run be clarified now. meds or softs???


Does it matter that much? But just going by logic alone, since it was unmarked, and Pirelli confirmed that the unmarked tyres are either softs or hards, it is virtually impossible that LH has done a 1.20.8 on hards. So: it was obviously softs, not mediums, since there are no unmarked mediums, right?


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#2452 Alx09

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:02

Some more positivity:
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#2453 jrg19

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:02

Not Lewis.

#2454 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:03

I hope that was as tongue in cheek as I read it :p

Yea, I'm absolutely useless when it comes to the aerodynamic analysis stuff. I read F1technical and all, but to be completely honest, I just dont understand most of it.

#2455 Alx09

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:03

Not Lewis.


I thought he created a separate account for F1-related stuff. May be wrong. The texts / typing / messages at least seem to be his style... but I guess some no-lifer can imitate.

https://twitter.com/...225435990827008

Edited by Alx09, 02 March 2013 - 21:09.


#2456 Jackmancer

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:03

Sorry to drop in like this;
Is the Mercedes car a good car?
Proof for it, or pure speculation?

I think Rosberg has been saying every year how good the car is, I don't know when to believe him :p

#2457 SR388

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:06

Yea, I'm absolutely useless when it comes to the aerodynamic analysis stuff. I read F1technical and all, but to be completely honest, I just dont understand most of it.



I get the concepts. But my worst fear is that at the end of the season a crazed gunman breaks into my apartment, and has photoshopped all of the cars black. He then places the pistol on my temple and demands that I name off which car is which.


I would be so dead.

Maybe.

Edited by SR388, 02 March 2013 - 21:13.


#2458 bauss

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:07

I'm no more on the fence for sure.... I sense Merc are starting the year with a strong car. Pple should remember though with regards to the actual 20.5 time, cars seem generally around a second faster here than they are in May....and the tires are faster this year.

Nevertheless, I sense the car has even more time in it, and the degradation in long runs looks like it improves in every test day...

Furthermore, I thought the car looked decent after launch, not as refined as the top dogs, but it is looking pretty refined now....signs point to the fact that they've really been systematically improving the car since day one.... that coupled with the restructuring last year and new bigwigs at Merc (+ bigger budget ?) makes me optimistic they could do ok for once in the development battle.

There is still some data to see to know if the car will be good enough for a WDC / WCC fight and like LH, pure highspeed tracks and longruns + how the car looks in super hot weather remain to be seen.... but there is no doubt the signs for the rest look positive. All one could have hoped for at the end of testing season.



#2459 Maustinsj

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:08

I kinda get the concepts. But my worst fear is that at the end of the season a crazed gunman breaks into my apartment, and has photoshopped all of the cars black. He then places the pistol on my temple and demands that I name off which car is which.


I would be so dead.

Maybe.


:clap:

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#2460 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:09

Sorry to drop in like this;
Is the Mercedes car a good car?
Proof for it, or pure speculation?

I think Rosberg has been saying every year how good the car is, I don't know when to believe him :p


Ok, you tell me. I see what you see, and I hear what you hear. On another note, it is good. But if you are asking how good, we are back to square one. Hope dies last.


#2461 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:11

I kinda get the concepts. But my worst fear is that at the end of the season a crazed gunman breaks into my apartment, and has photoshopped all of the cars black. He then places the pistol on my temple and demands that I name off which car is which.


I would be so dead.

Maybe.

:lol:

I hear ya. I think I could recognize a lot of the cars, though, just from looking at them so much. Doesn't mean I understand why any of it works, though. I mean, I get some basic concepts but I could never look at something and be like, "Yea, thats really gonna be a good solution" or anything. I've put some effort into trying to learn, but from everything I read, there's not a lot that works on a basic common sense level.

#2462 SR388

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:15

:lol:

I hear ya. I think I could recognize a lot of the cars, though, just from looking at them so much. Doesn't mean I understand why any of it works, though. I mean, I get some basic concepts but I could never look at something and be like, "Yea, thats really gonna be a good solution" or anything. I've put some effort into trying to learn, but from everything I read, there's not a lot that works on a basic common sense level.



Oh god. I might be on that same level. I just haven't admitted that I don't really have a clue. When someone explains something to me I can say "Yeah, that makes sense, hot air is thin so you want it to go around the ass bits." But maybe I don't know anything.




The world is so cold.

#2463 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:27

The world is so cold.


-The Offspring

#2464 Dzeidzei

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 22:52

I think I could recognize a lot of the cars, though, just from looking at them so much. Doesn't mean I understand why any of it works, though. I mean, I get some basic concepts but I could never look at something and be like, "Yea, thats really gonna be a good solution" or anything. I've put some effort into trying to learn, but from everything I read, there's not a lot that works on a basic common sense level.


So you work at the Marussia aero dept.....



:)

#2465 bonjon1979a

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 23:00

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21643991

Testing times are not to be overestimated but this sounds positive, so far.

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=Y4rigI3FkwE

#2466 otbevo

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 23:02

So you work at the Marussia aero dept.....

:)


More likely Caterham  ;)

#2467 Markn93

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 23:14

Lewis showing particular maturity with this quote - "You hear Jenson saying something, and you hear a couple of the others also before we'd get got to the test talking us up, I think it's important people just realise that when I came to the team, I said it's going to be tough, and it is going to be tough," Hamilton said.

"We're not being fooled by any short, low-fuel times or anything like that. We're working as hard as we can. We've got to improve and bring more downforce and improve certain areas of the car. We just have to keep doing that - I think people shouldn't get excited."

http://www1.skysport...elona-test-pace

#2468 alframsey

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 23:24

Lewis showing particular maturity with this quote - "You hear Jenson saying something, and you hear a couple of the others also before we'd get got to the test talking us up, I think it's important people just realise that when I came to the team, I said it's going to be tough, and it is going to be tough," Hamilton said.

"We're not being fooled by any short, low-fuel times or anything like that. We're working as hard as we can. We've got to improve and bring more downforce and improve certain areas of the car. We just have to keep doing that - I think people shouldn't get excited."

http://www1.skysport...elona-test-pace

I am loving the attitude he is showing currently, I think it bodes well for the season ahead. I am so excited for the new season now!

#2469 Markn93

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 23:38

Just to make sure I haven't missed anything, new bits tested today:

- New floor (or at the very least, wooden heat protective bits removed but Nico may have run this yesterday)
- Different rear suspension layout, with driveshaft now exposed
- New RW
- According to Scarbs slimmer rear bodywork/less cooling, but I think he's catching up from earlier as today it looks the same as it has all week.

Edited by Markn93, 02 March 2013 - 23:40.


#2470 SR388

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 23:51

It's amazing how many stages this team has gone through:

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#2471 Grundle

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:11

Downforce is the weakest aspect.
22.9 first sector for a 1.20.8 is below par.
27.6 final sector I believe is very good.
I am comparing this to 2011 S1 times. Red bull and Alonso did 22.6. back then, with slower overall lap times.(Alonso didn't have off throttle ebd)

Edited by Grundle, 03 March 2013 - 00:13.


#2472 femi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:23

Looks like they're trying to direct air and stuff.

Obviously

#2473 MercPower

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:28

Obviously


Come on Femi, don't be so harsh

#2474 femi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:30

so has the issue with the 1.20.8 run be clarified now. meds or softs???

Merc said they were softs

#2475 slmk

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:33

Downforce is the weakest aspect.
22.9 first sector for a 1.20.8 is below par.
27.6 final sector I believe is very good.
I am comparing this to 2011 S1 times. Red bull and Alonso did 22.6. back then, with slower overall lap times.(Alonso didn't have off throttle ebd)



How do you know sector times?

And yes, 2011 cars had way more aggressive EBDs/engine mapping than in 2012/2013.

Also, McLaren, which had probably the 2nd best car in qualifying and the equal best car in that race, did an awful S1 - Hamilton did 23.1 (half a second down on Alonso / Vettel) - does it mean the 2011 McLaren had bad aero? They had the second fastest S2 and S3.

Compared to 2012, Hamilton did a 22.6 with last year's car. A 27.9 by Hamilton would tie Schumacher's S1 last year. On the other hand, 27.6 in S3 is extremely quick (Hamilton did 28.3 in 2012 and Webber did 27.8 in 2011 with a fully-fledged EBD).


Edited by slmk, 03 March 2013 - 00:41.


#2476 BigCHrome

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:37

Downforce is the weakest aspect.
22.9 first sector for a 1.20.8 is below par.
27.6 final sector I believe is very good.
I am comparing this to 2011 S1 times. Red bull and Alonso did 22.6. back then, with slower overall lap times.(Alonso didn't have off throttle ebd)


They weren't on fumes.

#2477 jjcale

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:37

Its definitely a good car ... I thought today, "should be able to get podiums" ... then I see the times and its even better than I thought.... I think a bit of hype is justified.

#2478 ForzaGTR

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:47

Looks like they're trying to direct air and stuff.

:lol: :up:

#2479 dans79

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:48

since I posted the floor pick I will comment on it, and share what I think.

To me, it looks like the new floor has some kind of depression in it like a "valley" that looks deep close to the exaust exit and then gets shallower as it runs back towards the diffusers trailing edge. The only thing I can think of is that they are trying to use the side wash and down wash from the pods, to try and pull some of the exhaust gases in towards the center of the diffuser. If it worked, like I think it would, that would produce a low pressure area directly above and behind the trailing edge of the diffuser, thus increasing diffuser efficiency.


I see it as a system with 2 modes. at slow speeds the Coanda exhaust just blows directly into the gap between the wheel and the diffuser. as velocity increases, and the side wash and down wash increases in intensity, it should start to pull the exhaust gasses towards the center of the diffuser. It's a complex thermal and fluid dynamic problem to solve, but i think it's at least a possibility.

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#2480 femi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 07:55

Its definitely a good car ... I thought today, "should be able to get podiums" ... then I see the times and its even better than I thought.... I think a bit of hype is justified.


I think if the goal is to fight for 3rd / 4th position, they are well on the way to achieving that and those that are OK with that goal will probably be satisfied. judging from LH comments, that is not his goal and that is not why Merc took him on board. He wants to win championships and against that background, I understand him and agree with him as he is not too compromising as he drives the team forward with his public assessments about the state of the car. He knows how a championship winning car feels, he knows how tough the opposition at the front is and he knows the W04 is not there yet.

The car is great in a lot of areas but the DF is not good enough and I am not too sure how good the car is at looking after her tyres compared to the other "front runners" yet. The good news is this is a new car for Merc. They have plenty of room for development whereas the "evolved" cars are probably peaking in this area. I expect Merc to be making jumps while the others will probably be making steps in gains as the year pans out and for this reason, I expect Mac and Ferrari to be strong during the season as well.

I hope Merc can be competitive in the development war this season as this will give them confidence that they can compete at the very top which is great for 2014 and beyond and of course for LH.

I for one do not buy into the invisibility of RB, Mclaren was the better car last season. They lost out because they were not so great as a team.

#2481 bauss

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 08:19

Downforce is the weakest aspect.
22.9 first sector for a 1.20.8 is below par.
27.6 final sector I believe is very good.
I am comparing this to 2011 S1 times. Red bull and Alonso did 22.6. back then, with slower overall lap times.(Alonso didn't have off throttle ebd)


that could be all due to gear ratios or the fact that they do not use DRS after turn 3 anymore.

Sector 1 is basically just turn 1 n 2 on low fuel, all the good cars take turn 3 flat out....

I actually think its a decent sign of a good car that the overall time is so good even with sector 1 not been great.

The caveat though is cars have more downforce in lower temps so that 2nd n 3rd sector will probably not be doable come May, but still that 3rd sector makes me sense this car should definitely be top 3 at Monaco n a few similar others.

#2482 jrg19

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:57

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#2483 race addicted

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:10

The 22.9 in S1, if anything, only serves to confirm what Hamilton has been saying; the car lacks a little downforce.

#2484 BernieEc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:17

Where do you guys get the sector times for testing??

#2485 femi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:19

The 22.9 in S1, if anything, only serves to confirm what Hamilton has been saying; the car lacks a little downforce.



Very much so. Rosberg was fastest in sectors 2 & 3 but not sector 1 on his way to setting the fastest time of today so far.

#2486 MadYarpen

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:29

Where do you guys get the sector times for testing??

I believe autosport live coverage is the only source.

#2487 smoothcrim

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:35

wow ferrari are doing 1:20.xxx too,looks like merc and ferrari will have to share the wdc and wcc............. :p

#2488 micktosin

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:36

Can someone pm me the Link with the sector times please?

#2489 BernieEc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:42

Johnny Herbert Skysports

What we can read into it is that the Mercedes obviously has raw speed. But I think, as we're all aware here in Barcelona, we don't have the information as to what Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari carry in terms of fuel. Based on Mark Webber's runs yesterday, you could say that Mark could be half a second to six tenths faster than Lewis time - and that's the assumption that Red Bull run 60 kilos of fuel and Lewis was running low fuel.



#2490 mlsnoopy

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:45

But what if RB had 30kg of fuel?

#2491 jrg19

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:46

Didn't Lewis have at least 5 laps extra worth of fuel?

#2492 femi

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:50

Didn't Lewis have at least 5 laps extra worth of fuel?



If you include the out and in laps, he had at least 7 laps of fuel. I reckon he had at least 10 laps of fuel on board which is roughly 25Kg fuel

#2493 BernieEc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:51

Didn't Lewis have at least 5 laps extra worth of fuel?


Yep he did. I actually thought it was 6-7 laps. Which confirms if run in angst it might be possible for merc to do a high 1.19.xx which I believe is good. Worst case scenario the Bulls do a mid 1.19.4 or 5 which is not really bad considering where the mercs were last year. A very decent improvement

Edited by BernieEc, 03 March 2013 - 10:51.


#2494 jrg19

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:52

If this car is half a second off the Q100 in the first 4 fly aways it would be a miracle.

#2495 BigCHrome

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:52

I think they will be half a second off Red Bull at most.

Unless they are running extremely light to please the Merc board of directors.

#2496 BernieEc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:53

If this car is half a second off the Q100 in the first 4 fly aways it would be a miracle.

some have said you can't improve that much in an evolutionary year, but we'll see when we get to Q3 AUS and everyone drops their pants

#2497 Brandz07

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:54

I think they will be half a second off Red Bull at most.

Unless they are running extremely light to please the Merc board of directors.


They had at least 7 laps on board as said above, so that's not the case

#2498 robefc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:57

But what if RB had 30kg of fuel?


And Lewis had 60kg :D

#2499 Szoelloe

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:59

I think they will be half a second off Red Bull at most.

Unless they are running extremely light to please the Merc board of directors.


why would they do that? Some of those are virtually sitting on the pit wall anyway. It makes no difference if they suck in the tests or not. It's merely two weeks to Melbourne. Some dumbass at F1 Technical was trying to stir the sxxt with similar thoughts.


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#2500 amppatel

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:04

If you include the out and in laps, he had at least 7 laps of fuel. I reckon he had at least 10 laps of fuel on board which is roughly 25Kg fuel


Check your logic...