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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#2651 slmk

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 13:59

Word twistin' much?


What do you mean?

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#2652 Wingnut

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 14:25

Put it another way then - do you think if any of the teams were asked if they needed more downforce, they'd say "no"?


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Oh wait, should be downforce!  ;)

#2653 Jejking

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 14:33

Well, he rarely misses, at least concerning the informations he provides. USF1 is whole another story altogether. That was a miss of epic proportions.

And you happen to know this guy? 'Some guy' is not a source.

#2654 femi

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 15:33

Don't get carried away - Wolff

#2655 bauss

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 15:37

Don't get carried away - Wolff


the good part is while they are not ruling anything in, they are no more ruling anything out.



#2656 pRy

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 15:41

the good part is while they are not ruling anything in, they are no more ruling anything out.


They're just shaking it all about?

#2657 akshay380

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 15:48

Strange silence from Ross Brawn or Lewis, Lauda and Toto to handle media snippets and briefings?

Also funnily enough, the perpetual Mercedes hater in 'Kurved' yellow helmet has disappeared :cool:


#2658 OO7

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 16:31

The part Costa saying they need more DF or something to that effect.:

But we have known this since early testing. Everyone should remember what Mercedes 'officially stated' goals are this season. There seems to be a surge of high expectation after the Barcelona tests that Mercedes will head the field and this is not likely.

#2659 MaxisOne

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 16:50

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Oh wait, should be downforce! ;)



Shakes head .... i just knew that meme was coming... :lol:

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#2660 mlsnoopy

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 17:00

Mercedes closed the gap to the frontrunners. Do they have the best car. No. But if any of the teams did't do their homework over the winter Mercedes is in a position to overtake them.

#2661 femi

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 17:25

But we have known this since early testing. Everyone should remember what Mercedes 'officially stated' goals are this season. There seems to be a surge of high expectation after the Barcelona tests that Mercedes will head the field and this is not likely.


True Obi, but I think even they have exceeded their own expectations...

Edited by femi, 04 March 2013 - 17:26.


#2662 BigCHrome

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 17:46

Mercedes needs to act fast and secure Williams as an engine partner for 2014+.

#2663 SirT

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 17:56

Mercedes needs to act fast and secure Williams as an engine partner for 2014+.


Could well happen with Wolff's links and amicable depature.

#2664 study

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:17

And you happen to know this guy? 'Some guy' is not a source.


Some guy is the F1 studo arnalyst guy for Croatia not exactly just some guy

#2665 SR388

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:49

Anyone disappointed in the offerings in Merc GP's official store.


$64.99 for a so-so t-shirt is a bit much.

#2666 300KPh

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:56

Anyone disappointed in the offerings in Merc GP's official store.


$64.99 for a so-so t-shirt is a bit much.


we r in the start of the season , new designs and all that give some time it will come down, i bought a caterham t-shirt + cap in the middle of last season for 30 ponunds only

#2667 jjcale

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:14

Anyone disappointed in the offerings in Merc GP's official store.


$64.99 for a so-so t-shirt is a bit much.


Is that all they would pay me for being their walking billboard??

#2668 SR388

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:23

Is that all they would pay me for being their walking billboard??


That's the problem with motorsports apparel. If you are lucky, in the US you get NASCAR stuff which usually looks terrible but is associated with the driver's #.

With F1 though you get some overpriced hat or shirt with a team sponsor that doesn't do anything in your country. I have a Vodafone McLaren hat, it looks stupid as hell. No one knows what McLaren is and they have no idea what Vodafone is. Same would apply to a shirt that says PETRONAS on it.

AMLS and Indy do a decent job.

#2669 Masenco

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:24

we r in the start of the season , new designs and all that give some time it will come down, i bought a caterham t-shirt + cap in the middle of last season for 30 ponunds only


Why on earth would you do that? Lol

#2670 Rosberg

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:31

Why on earth would you do that? Lol


I'm guessing he's a fan of Caterham or likes the design of the t-shirt and cap but at the end of the day, it's his money :p

#2671 SirT

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:36

Here's Gary Anderson's predicted Melbourne grid! :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21660055

Rosberg on pole, Lewis 4th.

#2672 Szoelloe

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:40

Here's Gary Anderson's predicted Melbourne grid! :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21660055

Rosberg on pole, Lewis 4th.


I wish he hadn't done that


#2673 eronrules

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:41

Here's Gary Anderson's predicted Melbourne grid! :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21660055

Rosberg on pole, Lewis 4th.


i want some of what he's smoking :drunk:

#2674 SR388

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:47

Here's Gary Anderson's predicted Melbourne grid! :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21660055

Rosberg on pole, Lewis 4th.


That would be nice, except with Lewis 1st.

#2675 senna da silva

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:48

I wish he hadn't done that


Grain of salt.

#2676 Szoelloe

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:49

Grain of salt.


of course but usually he is so wrong.


#2677 V3TT3L

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:15

Man, I find this tweet so disturbing :lol:

https://twitter.com/...663943562416128

#2678 spacekid

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:25

I may be setting my desire higher here. I am a bit concerned about DF talks with tyre preservation in mind...
I just hope they have enough.

Does anyone remember how the Merc was with regards to tyre management during last season testing? I must admit Merc was not on my radar last year.


I was paying attention last year, and if my memory serves Merc looked like they were in trouble with tyres from early on in testing (well, early on once they showed up with the new car, anyway). They had speed, but the signs of tyre wear were worrying early on. There were also concerns regards over heating, and much discussion about gills. My main memory of last years tests is that Red Bull looked like they were lacking 1 lap pace, but had great consistent speed on the long runs.

This year Merc look much improved. However, after the last 3 seasons I am still suspicious of their ability to produce the goods through a season. However, if Merc really can stop their car from eating tyres maybe I will be proven wrong.

#2679 study

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:27

When did Aldo Costa join Merc? Would he have being involved in the design of the W03 as he produces cars light on their tyres

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#2680 SlickMick

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:34

Here's Gary Anderson's predicted Melbourne grid! :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21660055

Rosberg on pole, Lewis 4th.


He gave his reasoning behind correlating a bunch of times during a couple of days testing into a list. He then offered you the chance to suppose this was suggestive of the Melbourne grid.

He's probably pissing himself if you did.

#2681 300KPh

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:37

Why on earth would you do that? Lol

good question :D , i wanted any F1 team t-shirts and all were very pricey , i found this offer that caterham did in the time of the italian grand prix t-shirt+cap for 30 i bought it immediately

#2682 Timstr11

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:37

When did Aldo Costa join Merc? Would he have being involved in the design of the W03 as he produces cars light on their tyres

He was not involved. He joined December 2011.

Edited by Timstr11, 04 March 2013 - 20:42.


#2683 SunnyENTP

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:39

When did Aldo Costa join Merc? Would he have being involved in the design of the W03 as he produces cars light on their tyres


He joined last year and had nothing to do with W03. Merc had no aero guy last year summer as Loic Bigois quit to join Ferrari. I dont rate him that much but good luck to Ferrari.

#2684 jstrains

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:39

i want some of what he's smoking :drunk:


http://favimages.com...afroman-rap.gif
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#2685 Timstr11

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:41

Happy faces of Toto, Aldo and Ross.
Hope they can keep smiling after Melourne.

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#2686 olliek88

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:41

He was not involved. He joined December 2012.


Think it was 2011, designing the W04 in only a few weeks is pretty impressive if not!  ;)

#2687 SunnyENTP

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:41

He was not involved. He joined December 2012.


No he joined in late 2011 and was working on w04 from early 2012

#2688 nawz

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:42

I think Merc have a neat little F-Duct innovation type of thing up their sleeve!

#2689 Timstr11

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:43

Think it was 2011, designing the W04 in only a few weeks is pretty impressive if not! ;)

Edited. Thx.

#2690 study

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:01

He joined last year and had nothing to do with W03. Merc had no aero guy last year summer as Loic Bigois quit to join Ferrari. I dont rate him that much but good luck to Ferrari.


Don't rate Aldo or Loic?

I'm presuming you mean Loic?

#2691 MaxisOne

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:05

Don't rate Aldo or Loic?

I'm presuming you mean Loic?


He probably meant Loic ... and after the many editions of the Brawn 2009 front wing anyone who followed this team closely from 2009 to when he left would be inclined to agree.

#2692 eronrules

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:05

I think Merc have a neat little F-Duct innovation type of thing up their sleeve!


if u mean DDRS, it's not neat, if u mean something like FW F-duct, what good it did last year was evident :drunk: what merc needs is a baseline solid car, like FW34 or E20, then bolt on upgrades, not being too radical


#2693 DutchCruijff

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:43

To say he had no influence on the W03 is bollocks. He joined 3 months before its unveiling, and it wouldn't exactly be far out to say he was pretty much a Merc boy 3 months before that, adequate time to have SOME influence on the car's features + again, I don't see any evidence to suggest he had no influence on the development on the car throughout the season either.

#2694 senna da silva

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:47

of course but usually he is so wrong.


If GA can do it so can I, here's my opinion. Merc are generating good heat into the tyres at cold temeratures and getting them working, just like in 2012 testing. Personally I think this will result in higher deg at the race tracks when temeratures will be higher, just like 2012. However, I think that with Merc's new suspension they will be able to dial into the tyres better, but this may take a few races. If they do have the ability to make the tyres work then they will still be behind on aero compared to RBR but the amount of development we've seen through testing bodes well going forward for them catching up. I think a podium would be amazing in Aus, and I'd still be happy with a 5th place. The fly away races will be tough but we'll know how the season will be after the first race in Europe, here's hoping Mercedes is a contender, but I still don't think it'll happen this year.

Hopefully I'm being way too cautious. :)

#2695 OoxLox

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:47

I hope they ditch the passive fluid switch f-duct idea and concentrate on packaging and 'normal' aero developments this year. The passive f-duct is a dead end that seems to have become something of a light bulb for the F1 aerodynamics moths over the last few years since McLaren first showed the elbow-operated variety made a difference. It just seems to have turned into a bit of a Quest that normally ends with "well, IF we'd got it to work, it would have...."

#2696 Masenco

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:51

I hope they ditch the passive fluid switch f-duct idea and concentrate on packaging and 'normal' aero developments this year. The passive f-duct is a dead end that seems to have become something of a light bulb for the F1 aerodynamics moths over the last few years since McLaren first showed the elbow-operated variety made a difference. It just seems to have turned into a bit of a Quest that normally ends with "well, IF we'd got it to work, it would have...."


You have to consider that if they get it to work well, they can use more of the downforce they already have but sometimes cant use because it would make them slower on the straights.

#2697 OoxLox

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:06

You have to consider that if they get it to work well, they can use more of the downforce they already have but sometimes cant use because it would make them slower on the straights.


I understand the attraction from an F1 designer's point of view, and it's so devilishly clever that it'd be major aero bragging rights if anyone can ever get it right, but it strikes me as the Philosopher's Stone that's causing a few F1 scientists to dream of being F1 alchemists if you get my drift. The chaotic forces that could affect a passive fluidic switch during an entire F1 race are so varied and unpredictable that the team that can reach for the "plain carpenter's cup" rather than the "goblet of kings" might be a lot better off. Apologies for the movie references, but that's just what this "technology" feels like to me.

#2698 olliek88

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:11

To say he had no influence on the W03 is bollocks. He joined 3 months before its unveiling, and it wouldn't exactly be far out to say he was pretty much a Merc boy 3 months before that, adequate time to have SOME influence on the car's features + again, I don't see any evidence to suggest he had no influence on the development on the car throughout the season either.


I thought i read he was put in charge of the W04 project pretty much from the off, will go source hunting!

EDIT: The best i've found so far - http://translate.goo...t...=1&ie=UTF-8


Edited by olliek88, 04 March 2013 - 22:17.


#2699 Shiroo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:15

Well considering what people are writing I really hope that u won't be disappointed after 1st race. I mean, from what I can read that, most of you expect WDC and constnat win challenger. Hopefully it will be at least half good as some people mention here. Also hopefully it will be good saturday's car AND SUNDAY'S

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#2700 dans79

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:22

If GA can do it so can I, here's my opinion. Merc are generating good heat into the tyres at cold temeratures and getting them working, just like in 2012 testing. Personally I think this will result in higher deg at the race tracks when temeratures will be higher, just like 2012. However, I think that with Merc's new suspension they will be able to dial into the tyres better, but this may take a few races.


They didn't really get them to work last year in testing it just appeared that way. The W03 was always harsh on tires even in testing.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97842
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97809
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97819



They looked good in testing last year, because the W03 was good over one lap. That's also why the qualified well early in the season. They did poorly in races, because they lacked downforce, and thus chewed up the tires faster than their competition. They got worse as their competitors gained down force, and they either stayed stagnant or gained very little because of the limitations the DDRS placed on their aerodynamic development. They really shot themselves in the foot, when they started playing with a Coanda exhaust, because they where literally cooking the tires with 800 degree Celsius exhaust gasses. They most likely cooked the tires, because the design of the side pods prevented them from adequately controlling the flow of the exhaust gasses.

Compared to the W03, the W04 is a much better car. It looks to have superior mechanical grip (like the W03), maybe even the best on the paddock. based on the testing times it's very good over one lap, how good we won't know until Q3 in AUS, but it's not a mid pack car. Finally it looks to to have decent tire degradation, not the extreme fall offs the W03 showed in testing and during the season last year.