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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#2701 olliek88

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:11

To say he had no influence on the W03 is bollocks. He joined 3 months before its unveiling, and it wouldn't exactly be far out to say he was pretty much a Merc boy 3 months before that, adequate time to have SOME influence on the car's features + again, I don't see any evidence to suggest he had no influence on the development on the car throughout the season either.


I thought i read he was put in charge of the W04 project pretty much from the off, will go source hunting!

EDIT: The best i've found so far - http://translate.goo...t...=1&ie=UTF-8


Edited by olliek88, 04 March 2013 - 22:17.


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#2702 Shiroo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:15

Well considering what people are writing I really hope that u won't be disappointed after 1st race. I mean, from what I can read that, most of you expect WDC and constnat win challenger. Hopefully it will be at least half good as some people mention here. Also hopefully it will be good saturday's car AND SUNDAY'S

#2703 dans79

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:22

If GA can do it so can I, here's my opinion. Merc are generating good heat into the tyres at cold temeratures and getting them working, just like in 2012 testing. Personally I think this will result in higher deg at the race tracks when temeratures will be higher, just like 2012. However, I think that with Merc's new suspension they will be able to dial into the tyres better, but this may take a few races.


They didn't really get them to work last year in testing it just appeared that way. The W03 was always harsh on tires even in testing.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97842
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97809
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97819



They looked good in testing last year, because the W03 was good over one lap. That's also why the qualified well early in the season. They did poorly in races, because they lacked downforce, and thus chewed up the tires faster than their competition. They got worse as their competitors gained down force, and they either stayed stagnant or gained very little because of the limitations the DDRS placed on their aerodynamic development. They really shot themselves in the foot, when they started playing with a Coanda exhaust, because they where literally cooking the tires with 800 degree Celsius exhaust gasses. They most likely cooked the tires, because the design of the side pods prevented them from adequately controlling the flow of the exhaust gasses.

Compared to the W03, the W04 is a much better car. It looks to have superior mechanical grip (like the W03), maybe even the best on the paddock. based on the testing times it's very good over one lap, how good we won't know until Q3 in AUS, but it's not a mid pack car. Finally it looks to to have decent tire degradation, not the extreme fall offs the W03 showed in testing and during the season last year.





#2704 Xeriks

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:34

Well considering what people are writing I really hope that u won't be disappointed after 1st race. I mean, from what I can read that, most of you expect WDC and constnat win challenger. Hopefully it will be at least half good as some people mention here. Also hopefully it will be good saturday's car AND SUNDAY'S

Actually most people would be happy if Mercedes were challenging for podiums / the odd win, anything more than that is a bonus, I certainly don't see anyone claiming that this car will win the title this season, unless you believe Gary Anderson..

#2705 vlado

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:36

Compared to the W03, the W04 is a much better car. It looks to have superior mechanical grip (like the W03), maybe even the best on the paddock.


Can't wait to see the car go around Monaco with LH behind the wheel :clap:

#2706 Masenco

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:37

I understand the attraction from an F1 designer's point of view, and it's so devilishly clever that it'd be major aero bragging rights if anyone can ever get it right, but it strikes me as the Philosopher's Stone that's causing a few F1 scientists to dream of being F1 alchemists if you get my drift. The chaotic forces that could affect a passive fluidic switch during an entire F1 race are so varied and unpredictable that the team that can reach for the "plain carpenter's cup" rather than the "goblet of kings" might be a lot better off. Apologies for the movie references, but that's just what this "technology" feels like to me.


I feel what your saying bud, i agree in some regards aswell, from the outside it seems alot safer to put the extra effort into getting more downforce the normal way. I think they must believe they are close to getting it right and thats why theyre carrying on developing it

#2707 BernieEc

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:42

They didn't really get them to work last year in testing it just appeared that way. The W03 was always harsh on tires even in testing.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97842
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97809
http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/97819



They looked good in testing last year, because the W03 was good over one lap. That's also why the qualified well early in the season. They did poorly in races, because they lacked downforce, and thus chewed up the tires faster than their competition. They got worse as their competitors gained down force, and they either stayed stagnant or gained very little because of the limitations the DDRS placed on their aerodynamic development. They really shot themselves in the foot, when they started playing with a Coanda exhaust, because they where literally cooking the tires with 800 degree Celsius exhaust gasses. They most likely cooked the tires, because the design of the side pods prevented them from adequately controlling the flow of the exhaust gasses.

Compared to the W03, the W04 is a much better car. It looks to have superior mechanical grip (like the W03), maybe even the best on the paddock. based on the testing times it's very good over one lap, how good we won't know until Q3 in AUS, but it's not a mid pack car. Finally it looks to to have decent tire degradation, not the extreme fall offs the W03 showed in testing and during the season last year.


Now this is something that has always bothered me. I have heard a lot about a car lacking downforce and chewing on its tyres. Can someone please explain how this works. I would like to believe the Mercedes W03 lacked downforce compared to the front running cars but is this the reason for the tyres becoming lunch?

What about the Marussia's, Caterhams and HRT. Am sure the W03 had more downforce than they did but I never heard of them chewing up their tyres.

is it a cliche or is there some science behind it. I know am not technical and maybe missing something but can anyone explain it?

#2708 dans79

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:58

Now this is something that has always bothered me. I have heard a lot about a car lacking downforce and chewing on its tyres. Can someone please explain how this works. I would like to believe the Mercedes W03 lacked downforce compared to the front running cars but is this the reason for the tyres becoming lunch?

What about the Marussia's, Caterhams and HRT. Am sure the W03 had more downforce than they did but I never heard of them chewing up their tyres.

is it a cliche or is there some science behind it. I know am not technical and maybe missing something but can anyone explain it?


the easiest way to think about it is, more downforce equal less wheel spin, less oversteer/understeer, less backed drift.




#2709 Shiroo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 23:04

Actually most people would be happy if Mercedes were challenging for podiums / the odd win, anything more than that is a bonus, I certainly don't see anyone claiming that this car will win the title this season, unless you believe Gary Anderson..

Gary Anderson's technical analysis is the thing I trust the most in this world! But on serious note, I've a feeling that a lot of people here expect top car from Mercedes. And if I can be honest, if they will have a car that is 2-3 tenths slower than RBR or others, they easly can challenge for WDC. Yet for today I can't tell what is pecking order and how good Mercedes look in race pace (though I would say that they have pretty good quali pace)

#2710 bauss

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 00:57

Now this is something that has always bothered me. I have heard a lot about a car lacking downforce and chewing on its tyres. Can someone please explain how this works. I would like to believe the Mercedes W03 lacked downforce compared to the front running cars but is this the reason for the tyres becoming lunch?

What about the Marussia's, Caterhams and HRT. Am sure the W03 had more downforce than they did but I never heard of them chewing up their tyres.

is it a cliche or is there some science behind it. I know am not technical and maybe missing something but can anyone explain it?


I'm gonna take a few stabs in the dark...

Id say the past cars didn't have great weight distribution and also not a great COG. I remember Brawn talking about this as something they wanted to get right with the W04.

Another thing may be that unlike other midfield or slower cars, this car had aggressive suspension n mechanical setup worthy of a fast car with downforce. This setup was able to max out tires over one lap, but without downforce to reduce wheel spin, slippage etc, it chewed tires too much over a stint.

It could be any of these or a combination, or I might be dead wrong.... I don't know

Just expertise of an armchair engineer

#2711 akshay380

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:04

Posting from older article.

After I read this, I am sure Mercedes are going to fight with front runners. I doubt Lewis will say something like that otherwise.

"I think we definitely will be able to win a race at some point during the season," said Hamilton.

"I hope we can, at least, but when that will be, who knows?"


http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105815

#2712 BigCHrome

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 05:44

One thing that everyone seems to disregard about this car is that they started working on it quite early, especially compared to the contenders of 2012. Therefore when Hamilton says "they were 2 seconds slower last year and all other teams gained another second so we need to find 3 seconds to compete" I don't think it's an accurate statement. What they had in Brazil last year hadn't gotten any upgrades in a while, except the exhaust, where the W03 was a test bed of sorts for the W04. All of their focus was already shifted on the new car.

#2713 Timstr11

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 06:30

One thing that everyone seems to disregard about this car is that they started working on it quite early, especially compared to the contenders of 2012. Therefore when Hamilton says "they were 2 seconds slower last year and all other teams gained another second so we need to find 3 seconds to compete" I don't think it's an accurate statement. What they had in Brazil last year hadn't gotten any upgrades in a while, except the exhaust, where the W03 was a test bed of sorts for the W04. All of their focus was already shifted on the new car.

They were doing suspension changes I remember from statements.
I checked the last 4 GP's of last year and Mercedes's qualifying pace was consistently 1 second slower than the fastest qualifying time.
I know race pace was a bit worse but not 2 seconds towards the end of the year. That was around mid season.


#2714 Markn93

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 06:39

One thing that everyone seems to disregard about this car is that they started working on it quite early, especially compared to the contenders of 2012. Therefore when Hamilton says "they were 2 seconds slower last year and all other teams gained another second so we need to find 3 seconds to compete" I don't think it's an accurate statement. What they had in Brazil last year hadn't gotten any upgrades in a while, except the exhaust, where the W03 was a test bed of sorts for the W04. All of their focus was already shifted on the new car.

I love Lewis as much as anyone loves their favourite driver, but I don't trust a word he says now. The car's fast and he knows it. I prefer to look at body language and listen to tone than actual content which can sometimes be more of a guide to what the driver really feels. I was hoping for a while and now believe, that these types of comments are his way of trying to mask what is actually quite a good car.

#2715 surbjits

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:00

I love Lewis as much as anyone loves their favourite driver, but I don't trust a word he says now. The car's fast and he knows it. I prefer to look at body language and listen to tone than actual content which can sometimes be more of a guide to what the driver really feels. I was hoping for a while and now believe, that these types of comments are his way of trying to mask what is actually quite a good car.


So, you're essentially suggesting he is doing what Alonso did last season?

#2716 dans79

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:38

So, you're essentially suggesting he is doing what Alonso did last season?


Are you serious, the Ferrari was crap over one lap at the beginning of last year. They didn't start qualifying well till Spain. It did have decent race pace.

#2717 Lazy

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:33

Looks like the Merc could be close enough to the front that LH could make the difference, then again it could just far enough short that he implodes with the frustration, could be a great season.

I have this feeling it's going to be JB v LH again this year :)

#2718 undersquare

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:35

Are you serious, the Ferrari was crap over one lap at the beginning of last year. They didn't start qualifying well till Spain. It did have decent race pace.


Yeah nevertheless Nando did seem to learn how well it worked. He managed to go the whole year with the media ascribing every weak race to the car and every good one to him. Even when (IMO) he tightened up towards the end and Massa was right with him, and when he took himself out of Suzuka. And nobody seemed to notice how reliable his car was and how well the team raced it, such was the hype.

Every other driver has to have noticed how beautifully it worked. Though possibly not every other driver has a team willing to go along with it.

So no surprise to find Lewis downplaying the car, that is one of the big lessons of 2012. I reckon there's a bit more to come, too - exhaust especially.

#2719 Slackbladder

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:37

So, you're essentially suggesting he is doing what Alonso did last season?


He's doing what every driver does.... downplay the cars abilities.

Edit: But alonso took it a bit to extreme, constantly saying the Ferrari was 'much' slower than everyone else..when it was clear it wasn't the case.

Funnily as soon as the car did improve, and Massa got on top of it , Alonso's form went to pot.

Edited by Slackbladder, 05 March 2013 - 09:39.


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#2720 Rinehart

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:49

None of the teams and drivers know exactly where they are so all of this theorising that Lewis is managing expectations will be post rationalised after the event anyway, based on how competitive Mercedes turn out to be!

#2721 Markn93

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 09:52

Amus are buying the hype - http://www.auto-moto...le-6741493.html

#2722 femi

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:12

Amus are buying the hype - http://www.auto-moto...le-6741493.html


The headline is a bit misleading. The summary is what we have been voicing here - the concerns about DF and tyre management by NIKI, Ross and Costa...

#2723 BernieEc

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:12

None of the teams and drivers know exactly where they are so all of this theorising that Lewis is managing expectations will be post rationalised after the event anyway, based on how competitive Mercedes turn out to be!

So so true

#2724 femi

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:18

Winter Testing is done & was real positive. Still got work to do but can't wait for Melbourne. Back home now in Monaco, just ran 15km..

- Lewis Hamilton

#2725 OoxLox

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:46

- Lewis Hamilton


I wonder how many times around the harbour 15kms is? Must be strange to live in a 'country' where a decent walk or run would involve either lots of circuits or carrying a passport :drunk:

#2726 Markn93

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 11:48

Love the choice of words,

"If anything, I feel like I have a free ticket. It's a year where we know we may not have the best package, but it's a challenge for me.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105850

#2727 Masenco

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:21

Love the choice of words,

"If anything, I feel like I have a free ticket. It's a year where we know we may not have the best package, but it's a challenge for me.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105850


I don't think there's anything to read in-between the lines there.
F1 drivers hardly ever give definite answers- especially after testing!

I believe he avoided saying for certain that they do not have the best car to avoid sounding overly negative and de-moralizing the staff at merc.

I've previously made the mistake of reading too much into quotes, and when I saw the video interview my view of the whole quote changed- therefore I now try to keep what I've read at face value until I see the video interview...... well I try to anyway :p

#2728 Markn93

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:23

I don't think there's anything to read in-between the lines there.
F1 drivers hardly ever give definite answers- especially after testing!

I believe he avoided saying for certain that they do not have the best car to avoid sounding overly negative and de-moralizing the staff at merc.

I've previously made the mistake of reading too much into quotes, and when I saw the video interview my view of the whole quote changed- therefore I now try to keep what I've read at face value until I see the video interview...... well I try to anyway :p

Point is it's better than "do not".

#2729 Masenco

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:54

Point is it's better than "do not".


Yep I understood your point brother, that's what I way replying to.


#2730 tkulla

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 13:16

Forget what Lewis is saying about the car. He's made another twitter blunder that has given away the secret to the MGP driver's fitness:

"About to hit the gym & maybe ping pong after with my neighbor & teammate Nico :)"

but then...

"Done with the gym but no ping pong, nico is on a date with his girl:) as for me, its just me & Roscoe kickin it at home."


Ping pong (table tennis, technically) is the key. Seriously though, Lewis seems very relaxed and happy, which bodes well. I also like hearing about when drivers interact away from racing. DiResta often goes cycling with Jenson, for instance.


Anyway, back to the W04. I wonder how much of the improvement they are showing is because of the new tyres and their wider operating window. The Mercedes was quick last year but was compromised by not being able to find a setup to make the tyres last in most races. I'd imagine they set up the car as much as possible to do this, likely compromising qualifying pace considerably.

Edited by tkulla, 05 March 2013 - 13:53.


#2731 undersquare

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 13:34

I reckon most of the improvement is down to no longer accidentally blowing the exhaust all over the rear tyres, as they reported a couple of months ago.

Add in Aldo Costa, bingo.

#2732 BillBald

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 14:11

Love the choice of words,

"If anything, I feel like I have a free ticket. It's a year where we know we may not have the best package, but it's a challenge for me.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105850


OK, now it's very clear that Lewis reads this forum:
http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=6134336

if they have a decent car Hamilton will be doing cart-wheels down the pit lane waiving his 'get out of jail free card' around in delight.


Edited by BillBald, 05 March 2013 - 14:13.


#2733 maverick69

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 14:15

OK, now it's very clear that Lewis reads this forum:
http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=6134336


The bastard :smoking:

#2734 mlsnoopy

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 15:09

What I don't understand is how the media can fall for the hype. Fastest time during testing are nice, but they don't make a team the favorite.

#2735 Arion

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 15:19

What I don't understand is how the media can fall for the hype. Fastest time during testing are nice, but they don't make a team the favorite.


cos there's no other teams the media can hype up, the top teams didn't show their hands. Anyhow. I think the general consensus is RBR is still the team to beat, Merc at the moment makes a good story for the media cos they have LH.




#2736 Grundle

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 15:28

OK, now it's very clear that Lewis reads this forum:
http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=6134336

I don't think Lewis reads this forum, if he does he probably shouldn't. It would show he still cares too much of other peeps opinions.
After all we know f all about his car compared to him. (love u Lewis xxxxx, give me tickets xxxxx, our dogs can play together xxxxxxxx)
:lol:

#2737 senna da silva

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 16:23

What I don't understand is how the media can fall for the hype. Fastest time during testing are nice, but they don't make a team the favorite.


Agreed. Here's a little historical perspective:

2010 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Hamilton McLaren 1m20.472s
2 Webber Red Bull 1m20.496s +0.024
3 Massa Ferrari 1m20.539s +0.067
4 Sutil Force India 1m20.611s +0.139
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m20.667s +0.195
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.745s +0.273
7 Barrichello Williams 1m20.870s +0.398
8 Kobayashi Sauber 1m20.911s +0.439
9 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.135s +1.663
10 Kubica Renault 1m23.175s +2.703
11 Kovalainen Lotus 1m25.251s +4.779
12 Di Grassi Virgin 1m26.160s +5.688
—————
2011 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Schumacher Mercedes 1m21.249s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m21.614s +0.365
3 Rosberg Mercedes 1m21.788s +0.539
4 Heidfeld Renault 1m22.073s +0.824
5 Barrichello Williams 1m22.233s +0.984
6 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.315s +1.066
7 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m22.675s +1.426
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m22.933s +1.684
9 Kovalainen Lotus 1m23.437s +2.188
10 Di Resta Force India 1m23.653s +2.404
11 Sutil Force India 1m23.921s +2.672
12 Maldonado Williams 1m24.108s +2.859
13 Button McLaren 1m25.837s +4.588
14 D’Ambrosio Virgin 1m27.375s +6.126
—————
2012 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Raikkonen Lotus 1m22.030s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m22.250s +0.220
3 Senna Williams 1m22.296s +0.266
4 Hulkenberg Force India 1m22.312s +0.282
5 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.386s +0.356
6 Hamilton McLaren 1m22.430s +0.400
7 Petrov Caterham 1m22.795s +0.765
8 Schumacher Mercedes 1m22.939s +0.909
9 Maldonado Williams 1m23.347s +1.317
10 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.393s +1.363
11 Vettel Red Bull 1m23.608s +1.578
—————
2013 Barcelone day 4 : ??? will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Rosberg Mercedes 1m20.130s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m20.494s +0.364
3 Button McLaren 1m21.444s +1.314
4 Hulkenberg Sauber 1m21.541s +1.411
5 Raikkonen Lotus 1m21.658s +1.528
6 di Resta Force India 1m21.664s +1.534
7 Maldonado Williams 1m22.415s +2.285
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m22.514s +2.384
9 Bottas Williams 1m22.524s +2.394
10 Pic Caterham 1m23.115s +2.985
11 Bianchi Marussia 1m23.167s +3.037
12 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.628s +3.498
13 Chilton Marussia 1m24.103s +3.973



#2738 SR388

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 16:59

Agreed. Here's a little historical perspective:

2010 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Hamilton McLaren 1m20.472s
2 Webber Red Bull 1m20.496s +0.024
3 Massa Ferrari 1m20.539s +0.067
4 Sutil Force India 1m20.611s +0.139
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m20.667s +0.195
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.745s +0.273
7 Barrichello Williams 1m20.870s +0.398
8 Kobayashi Sauber 1m20.911s +0.439
9 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.135s +1.663
10 Kubica Renault 1m23.175s +2.703
11 Kovalainen Lotus 1m25.251s +4.779
12 Di Grassi Virgin 1m26.160s +5.688
—————
2011 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Schumacher Mercedes 1m21.249s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m21.614s +0.365
3 Rosberg Mercedes 1m21.788s +0.539
4 Heidfeld Renault 1m22.073s +0.824
5 Barrichello Williams 1m22.233s +0.984
6 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.315s +1.066
7 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m22.675s +1.426
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m22.933s +1.684
9 Kovalainen Lotus 1m23.437s +2.188
10 Di Resta Force India 1m23.653s +2.404
11 Sutil Force India 1m23.921s +2.672
12 Maldonado Williams 1m24.108s +2.859
13 Button McLaren 1m25.837s +4.588
14 D’Ambrosio Virgin 1m27.375s +6.126
—————
2012 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Raikkonen Lotus 1m22.030s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m22.250s +0.220
3 Senna Williams 1m22.296s +0.266
4 Hulkenberg Force India 1m22.312s +0.282
5 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.386s +0.356
6 Hamilton McLaren 1m22.430s +0.400
7 Petrov Caterham 1m22.795s +0.765
8 Schumacher Mercedes 1m22.939s +0.909
9 Maldonado Williams 1m23.347s +1.317
10 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.393s +1.363
11 Vettel Red Bull 1m23.608s +1.578
—————
2013 Barcelone day 4 : ??? will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Rosberg Mercedes 1m20.130s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m20.494s +0.364
3 Button McLaren 1m21.444s +1.314
4 Hulkenberg Sauber 1m21.541s +1.411
5 Raikkonen Lotus 1m21.658s +1.528
6 di Resta Force India 1m21.664s +1.534
7 Maldonado Williams 1m22.415s +2.285
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m22.514s +2.384
9 Bottas Williams 1m22.524s +2.394
10 Pic Caterham 1m23.115s +2.985
11 Bianchi Marussia 1m23.167s +3.037
12 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.628s +3.498
13 Chilton Marussia 1m24.103s +3.973



Conveniently left off 2009

Final Barca test 2009:
1. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn BGP 001, 1:18.926
2. Nico Rosberg, Williams FW31, 1:19.774
3. Timo Glock, Toyota TF109, 1:20.091
4. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull RB5, 1:20.576
5. Fernando Alonso, Renault R29, 1:20.664
6. Felipe Massa, Ferrari F60, 1:20.677
7. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber F1.09, 1:20.740
8. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren MP4-24, 1:20.869
9. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso STR4, 1:21.013
10. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India VJM02, 1:21.045
11. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso STR4, 1:21.629






Not saying that testing is the end-all, be-all of prediction, but there is some reason to be optimistic.

#2739 senna da silva

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 17:11

Conveniently left off 2009

Final Barca test 2009:
1. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn BGP 001, 1:18.926
2. Nico Rosberg, Williams FW31, 1:19.774
3. Timo Glock, Toyota TF109, 1:20.091
4. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull RB5, 1:20.576
5. Fernando Alonso, Renault R29, 1:20.664
6. Felipe Massa, Ferrari F60, 1:20.677
7. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber F1.09, 1:20.740
8. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren MP4-24, 1:20.869
9. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso STR4, 1:21.013
10. Giancarlo Fisichella, Force India VJM02, 1:21.045
11. Sebastien Bourdais, Toro Rosso STR4, 1:21.629






Not saying that testing is the end-all, be-all of prediction, but there is some reason to be optimistic.


Not conveniently. 2009 was a revolution year for everyone, it was more likely they'd go for all out speed to find out where they are. The top three cars all have the double diffuser.  ;)
I suspect 2014 will be more like 2009 in that the final tests will show a pecking order.

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#2740 Spoch

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 18:46

Was th red bull really that fast last year??? I think people are giving them too much respect. IMO the only car to look out for would be the Lotus. If Mcl went for a revolutionary car, then it could go either way. The red bull just benefitted from Mcl cock ups last year. They had no right to be champions but Mcl never fails to fail. Ferrari were pretty much lame and were always fortunate with retirements of cars in front of them or Mcl cock ups. So on the Merc should there or about not a rocket ship but with a good foundation should be able to hold its own. Plus if LH now says it can win races means it probably felt like the Mcl he was used to winning races with. Cant wait for the 17th! :|

#2741 Markn93

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 18:49

Was th red bull really that fast last year??? I think people are giving them too much respect. IMO the only car to look out for would be the Lotus. If Mcl went for a revolutionary car, then it could go either way. The red bull just benefitted from Mcl cock ups last year. They had no right to be champions but Mcl never fails to fail. Ferrari were pretty much lame and were always fortunate with retirements of cars in front of them or Mcl cock ups. So on the Merc should there or about not a rocket ship but with a good foundation should be able to hold its own. Plus if LH now says it can win races means it probably felt like the Mcl he was used to winning races with. Cant wait for the 17th! :|

Not sure it has the downforce of the 27 but he said it's already better in some ways/a way. My guess is he means traction/mechanical grip.

Welcome :wave:

#2742 Kvothe

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 18:59

Was th red bull really that fast last year??? I think people are giving them too much respect. IMO the only car to look out for would be the Lotus. If Mcl went for a revolutionary car, then it could go either way. The red bull just benefitted from Mcl cock ups last year. They had no right to be champions but Mcl never fails to fail. Ferrari were pretty much lame and were always fortunate with retirements of cars in front of them or Mcl cock ups. So on the Merc should there or about not a rocket ship but with a good foundation should be able to hold its own. Plus if LH now says it can win races means it probably felt like the Mcl he was used to winning races with. Cant wait for the 17th! :|


While I think it was very close, I think the McLaren edged it. I feel balance problems for Vettel and reliability for Webber helped mask their true pace a lot in the first part of the season, especially since both drivers seesawed up and down the grid in every qualifying session. For example In Melbourne Webber may have been seven tenths down on Hamilton's time however he also didn't have KERs, which is averaged at about 3-5 tenths per lap whilst during the the race, Webber was the fastest man on track for a large period of time.

#2743 BigCHrome

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 19:21

Not sure it has the downforce of the 27 but he said it's already better in some ways/a way. My guess is he means traction/mechanical grip.

Welcome :wave:


That quote was from the first test. Presumably, they've added a good amount of extra downforce since then.

While I think it was very close, I think the McLaren edged it. I feel balance problems for Vettel and reliability for Webber helped mask their true pace a lot in the first part of the season, especially since both drivers seesawed up and down the grid in every qualifying session. For example In Melbourne Webber may have been seven tenths down on Hamilton's time however he also didn't have KERs, which is averaged at about 3-5 tenths per lap whilst during the the race, Webber was the fastest man on track for a large period of time.


McLaren screwed up (once again... smh) their fuel calculations so they had to conserve fuel during the race.

#2744 Markn93

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 19:24

That quote was from the first test. Presumably, they've added a good amount of extra downforce since then.

Well he said the upgrade was a "good step". Hope that equals a "good amount" as you say.

#2745 Szoelloe

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 19:34

Well he said the upgrade was a "good step". Hope that equals a "good amount" as you say.


Actually, he said it was a small step forward, and said "good for us". Not that it really matters. :) The really important thing is that all the upgrades actually worked in the predicted way. Brawn said they met their targets. THAT is good.No steps backward, no ditched experimental developments, that means they can push forward. They are not starting the season on the backfoot.


#2746 Kvothe

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 19:37

That quote was from the first test. Presumably, they've added a good amount of extra downforce since then.



McLaren screwed up (once again... smh) their fuel calculations so they had to conserve fuel during the race.


From lap 2 I know, but that doesn't take away anything from Red Bull's pace, especially when throughout the season I would have said their race pace on the Pirellii tyres was probably better than McLaren's, which is why I remember being very shocked when Vettel had to pit before Lewis in Canada.

#2747 Mc_Silver

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 20:21

Agreed. Here's a little historical perspective:

2012 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Raikkonen Lotus 1m22.030s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m22.250s +0.220
3 Senna Williams 1m22.296s +0.266
4 Hulkenberg Force India 1m22.312s +0.282
5 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.386s +0.356
6 Hamilton McLaren 1m22.430s +0.400
7 Petrov Caterham 1m22.795s +0.765
8 Schumacher Mercedes 1m22.939s +0.909
9 Maldonado Williams 1m23.347s +1.317
10 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.393s +1.363
11 Vettel Red Bull 1m23.608s +1.578
—————


How the hell Petrov did this lap time in 2012? His best time in Q1 was only 1:25.277

#2748 Kaosoner

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 20:24

Hi to all the formula one circus fan, and specially to the Mercedes AMG F1 fans and Hamilton lovers or haters (we need both to entertain this board!!). . melbourne can't come soon enough, but i hardly remember been so much excited during winter testing hope this season give us the show we deserve. Like Lewis said pressure is on the front runner, Mercedes is in a very good position whenever the downplaying game is true or not. The fact is this team had hired so many talented guy at the factory that sooner or later it will payback, we just need a little bit more of magic (understand Downforce) from our dream team.This is my first post here and english is not my native language...

#2749 Shiroo

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 20:40

How the hell Petrov did this lap time in 2012? His best time in Q1 was only 1:25.277

cut chicane?

Edited by Shiroo, 05 March 2013 - 20:40.


#2750 Markn93

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 20:41

Hi to all the formula one circus fan, and specially to the Mercedes AMG F1 fans and Hamilton lovers or haters (we need both to entertain this board!!). . melbourne can't come soon enough, but i hardly remember been so much excited during winter testing hope this season give us the show we deserve. Like Lewis said pressure is on the front runner, Mercedes is in a very good position whenever the downplaying game is true or not. The fact is this team had hired so many talented guy at the factory that sooner or later it will payback, we just need a little bit more of magic (understand Downforce) from our dream team.This is my first post here and english is not my native language...

Welcome :wave: