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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#2751 mlsnoopy

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 20:59

Was th red bull really that fast last year??? I think people are giving them too much respect. IMO the only car to look out for would be the Lotus. If Mcl went for a revolutionary car, then it could go either way. The red bull just benefitted from Mcl cock ups last year. They had no right to be champions but Mcl never fails to fail. Ferrari were pretty much lame and were always fortunate with retirements of cars in front of them or Mcl cock ups. So on the Merc should there or about not a rocket ship but with a good foundation should be able to hold its own. Plus if LH now says it can win races means it probably felt like the Mcl he was used to winning races with. Cant wait for the 17th! :|


They had the best car, not the fastest car.

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#2752 ZooL

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:33

From watching the testing, the profile of the Merc isn't the slimmest. From the sidepods back it looked visibly chunkier than the McLaren and Ferrari.
I think Hamilton is right, W04 can compete at mechanical tracks, but at aero tracks I guess they will drop back to P7+

Edited by ZooL, 06 March 2013 - 09:35.


#2753 Szoelloe

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:39

From watching the testing, the profile of the Merc isn't the slimmest. From the sidepods back it looked visibly chunkier than the McLaren and Ferrari.
I think Hamilton is right, W04 can compete at mechanical tracks, but at aero tracks I guess they will drop back to P7+


Actually, it is slimmer than either.

#2754 Wingnut

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:44

From watching the testing, the profile of the Merc isn't the slimmest. From the sidepods back it looked visibly chunkier than the McLaren and Ferrari.
I think Hamilton is right, W04 can compete at mechanical tracks, but at aero tracks I guess they will drop back to P7+


Which do you class as aero and which mechanical? I take it there are more aero tracks otherwise they would have an advantage?

#2755 Wingnut

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:47

Hi to all the formula one circus fan, and specially to the Mercedes AMG F1 fans and Hamilton lovers or haters (we need both to entertain this board!!). . melbourne can't come soon enough, but i hardly remember been so much excited during winter testing hope this season give us the show we deserve. Like Lewis said pressure is on the front runner, Mercedes is in a very good position whenever the downplaying game is true or not. The fact is this team had hired so many talented guy at the factory that sooner or later it will payback, we just need a little bit more of magic (understand Downforce) from our dream team.This is my first post here and english is not my native language...


Welcome to the board! Hiring many talented guys at the factory is not guarantee of success though, especially this year. I'll be interested to see if they can get them to work together, it's developing the car over the course of the season that is going to really show how far the team has come.

#2756 bonjon1979a

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:59

Agreed. Here's a little historical perspective:

2010 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Hamilton McLaren 1m20.472s
2 Webber Red Bull 1m20.496s +0.024
3 Massa Ferrari 1m20.539s +0.067
4 Sutil Force India 1m20.611s +0.139
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m20.667s +0.195
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.745s +0.273
7 Barrichello Williams 1m20.870s +0.398
8 Kobayashi Sauber 1m20.911s +0.439
9 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.135s +1.663
10 Kubica Renault 1m23.175s +2.703
11 Kovalainen Lotus 1m25.251s +4.779
12 Di Grassi Virgin 1m26.160s +5.688
—————
2011 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Schumacher Mercedes 1m21.249s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m21.614s +0.365
3 Rosberg Mercedes 1m21.788s +0.539
4 Heidfeld Renault 1m22.073s +0.824
5 Barrichello Williams 1m22.233s +0.984
6 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.315s +1.066
7 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m22.675s +1.426
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m22.933s +1.684
9 Kovalainen Lotus 1m23.437s +2.188
10 Di Resta Force India 1m23.653s +2.404
11 Sutil Force India 1m23.921s +2.672
12 Maldonado Williams 1m24.108s +2.859
13 Button McLaren 1m25.837s +4.588
14 D’Ambrosio Virgin 1m27.375s +6.126
—————
2012 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Raikkonen Lotus 1m22.030s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m22.250s +0.220
3 Senna Williams 1m22.296s +0.266
4 Hulkenberg Force India 1m22.312s +0.282
5 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.386s +0.356
6 Hamilton McLaren 1m22.430s +0.400
7 Petrov Caterham 1m22.795s +0.765
8 Schumacher Mercedes 1m22.939s +0.909
9 Maldonado Williams 1m23.347s +1.317
10 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.393s +1.363
11 Vettel Red Bull 1m23.608s +1.578
—————
2013 Barcelone day 4 : ??? will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Rosberg Mercedes 1m20.130s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m20.494s +0.364
3 Button McLaren 1m21.444s +1.314
4 Hulkenberg Sauber 1m21.541s +1.411
5 Raikkonen Lotus 1m21.658s +1.528
6 di Resta Force India 1m21.664s +1.534
7 Maldonado Williams 1m22.415s +2.285
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m22.514s +2.384
9 Bottas Williams 1m22.524s +2.394
10 Pic Caterham 1m23.115s +2.985
11 Bianchi Marussia 1m23.167s +3.037
12 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.628s +3.498
13 Chilton Marussia 1m24.103s +3.973


These are times taken from the final day of testing, not fastest combined times from that test. The quickest times Red Bull did at the final test compared with the top time is as follows:

2010 – 0.195
2011 – 0.620
2012- 0.603
2013 – 2.4 seconds

In the three tests prior to this one, Red Bull have at some point taken enough fuel out of the car to get within at most 0.620 of a second of the quickest time set at that test. Are we to believe that in this test they've abandoned that approach and never taken out more than 70 - 80 kg's (ie nigh on half a tank?) I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. They'll be up there come Australia, for sure, but I don't believe they have 3 or more seconds in hand.

#2757 Guizotia

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:18

These are times taken from the final day of testing, not fastest combined times from that test. The quickest times Red Bull did at the final test compared with the top time is as follows:

2010 – 0.195
2011 – 0.620
2012- 0.603
2013 – 2.4 seconds

In the three tests prior to this one, Red Bull have at some point taken enough fuel out of the car to get within at most 0.620 of a second of the quickest time set at that test. Are we to believe that in this test they've abandoned that approach and never taken out more than 70 - 80 kg's (ie nigh on half a tank?) I'm sorry but I'm not buying it. They'll be up there come Australia, for sure, but I don't believe they have 3 or more seconds in hand.


What are Mercedes' comparative times for those years? That would make an interesting comparison. (and bring the thread back on topic)

#2758 bonjon1979a

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:37

What are Mercedes' comparative times for those years? That would make an interesting comparison. (and bring the thread back on topic)


2010 - It seems I got my first times wrong i must've just been referencing the final day of testing. I've discovered that Mclaren were quickest at Barcelona with a 1.20.472. Red Bull were second with a 1.20.496 with Rosberg slower at 1.20.646 - http://www.f1fanatic...est-statistics/ Should point out that this was the year where all the cars had double diffusers and a great understanding of the Bridgestone tyres that they were running for the last time that year.
2011 - schumacher held fastest time of testing with 1:21.268
2012 - Rosberg was two tenths slower than Red Bull with 1:22.932

Anyway, you can see that on the Red Bull were ahead of Merc for two out of three of the tests and only 6 tenths off in 2011. It's worth remembering that 2011 also had at least a day washed out because of rain so teams may not have run their full programmes which caused Schumacher to end up on top. Also, should point out that we were seeing Schumacher back in a merc and I suspect he would've wanted to put to rest any doubts as to whether or not he had the speed still early on in proceedings. These are assumptions so perhaps shouldn't be given much credence, what you can see is that Red bull were right up there when it came to times.

Edited by bonjon1979a, 06 March 2013 - 12:38.


#2759 Guizotia

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 12:46

2010 - It seems I got my first times wrong i must've just been referencing the final day of testing. I've discovered that Mclaren were quickest at Barcelona with a 1.20.472. Red Bull were second with a 1.20.496 with Rosberg slower at 1.20.646 - http://www.f1fanatic...est-statistics/ Should point out that this was the year where all the cars had double diffusers and a great understanding of the Bridgestone tyres that they were running for the last time that year.
2011 - schumacher held fastest time of testing with 1:21.268
2012 - Rosberg was two tenths slower than Red Bull with 1:22.932

Anyway, you can see that on the Red Bull were ahead of Merc for two out of three of the tests and only 6 tenths off in 2011. It's worth remembering that 2011 also had at least a day washed out because of rain so teams may not have run their full programmes which caused Schumacher to end up on top. Also, should point out that we were seeing Schumacher back in a merc and I suspect he would've wanted to put to rest any doubts as to whether or not he had the speed still early on in proceedings. These are assumptions so perhaps shouldn't be given much credence, what you can see is that Red bull were right up there when it came to times.


Very interesting, thanks.

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#2760 femi

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 13:12

They had the best car, not the fastest car.


I thought racing especially in F1 is about building the fastest car or maybe I am missing something.
Can you please explain what seems like a paradox to me?

#2761 Wingnut

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 13:34

I thought racing especially in F1 is about building the fastest car or maybe I am missing something.
Can you please explain what seems like a paradox to me?


I think as we'd seen last year the McLaren was often the fastest car, but as it was unable to finish a number of races, it was not the best car.

#2762 SCEPurple

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 13:41

I think as we'd seen last year the McLaren was often the fastest car, but as it was unable to finish a number of races, it was not the best car.


Lewis and Jenson lost a fair haul of strong finishes due to reliability, typically/memorably for LH when he was in 1st place. But Mclaren were just operationally not on the same level as their competition. I just don't remember Ferrari or Red Bull having the type of set up issues and bodged pit stops that ended up spoiling the Mclaren guys' weekends...

The MP4-27 was probably the package of the season in my opinion.

#2763 robefc

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 13:56

I thought racing especially in F1 is about building the fastest car or maybe I am missing something.
Can you please explain what seems like a paradox to me?


I am sure Kimi fans can fill you in from his macca days

#2764 Shiroo

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 14:30

Fastest =/ Best

McLaren last year was fastest (or on par with RBR in most races) but his reliability was poor, team management during races was poor so they instead of getting both titles ended not as good as they should.

Similar to Kimi's years at McLaren, he had fast car but poor reliability

#2765 Clatter

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 14:33

I thought racing especially in F1 is about building the fastest car or maybe I am missing something.
Can you please explain what seems like a paradox to me?


Your obviously missing a lot.

The idea is to build the fastest car to complete the race. There is no point having a faster car that breaks down before the end. That's why the best car may not be the outright fastest one.

#2766 CarbonF

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 15:24

There are Fast cars and then there are reliable one's!

The best car is one which is both Fast and reliable!

Hello fellow MGP and Lewis fans, here is to hope that we have it in MGP-W04.

#2767 micktosin

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 15:30

There are Fast cars and then there are reliable one's!

The best car is one which is both Fast and reliable!

Hello fellow MGP and Lewis fans, here is to hope that we have it in MGP-W04.

Welcome :wave: .

#2768 femi

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 15:42

Your obviously missing a lot.

The idea is to build the fastest car to complete the race. There is no point having a faster car that breaks down before the end. That's why the best car may not be the outright fastest one.



Thx Clatter for expressing the "lot" I missed in one sentence - lol

#2769 SR388

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 16:58

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/102351.html

Nico Rosberg says working alongside Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes this year has reminded him of their time together in karting and he is confident their strong relationship will push the team forwards.

Rosberg and Hamilton raced as team-mate in go karts thirteen years ago and remained friends through the junior ranks. Now they are together at the same team again and Rosberg said it was just like old times.

"The memories come back even though it was such a long time ago," he said. "Sometimes it feels like exactly like it was back then. It's going to be a great challenge [going up against Hamilton] for sure and that's what I'm here for, challenges like that. He's one of the best in the pit lane, but together we are going to work well and help push the team forward."

In their karting days Rosberg once pulled a practical joke on Hamilton by smearing Tiger Balm in his team-mate's underpants, but he said he hadn't had the opportunity to pull any pranks so far.


"Not yet, but I'm sure there will be plenty of time for that."

He is confident the whole of the Mercedes team is working well together and that the new technical hierarchy will produce results.

"I don't want to name any one person because everybody at the factory has a massive input. For sure the communication has been structured better and it's all going in a better direction. I think we are progressing as a team."


Edited by SR388, 06 March 2013 - 16:58.


#2770 Markn93

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 16:58

http://www.f1fanatic...erous-mercedes/ :smoking:

#2771 MP422

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 17:19

http://www.f1fanatic...erous-mercedes/ :smoking:



Yea, things are looking good !!

#2772 jjcale

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 17:28

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/102351.html


"I don't want to name any one person because everybody at the factory has a massive input. For sure the communication has been structured better and it's all going in a better direction. I think we are progressing as a team."


For sure Nico has a future in PR but this is an interesting quote .... seeing that most of us have assumed the opposite would be the case given their top heavy structure in recent times.

#2773 Szoelloe

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 17:43

For sure Nico has a future in PR but this is an interesting quote .... seeing that most of us have assumed the opposite would be the case given their top heavy structure in recent times.



There are a number of ways to interpret what you wrote, so do elaborate, what exactly do you want to say?

#2774 Smitla321

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 18:09

There are a number of ways to interpret what you wrote, so do elaborate, what exactly do you want to say?


He is saying that its good news that there is good communication in the team. A lot of people speculated that communication within the team would suffer because we have a lot of serious names that all have serious input now working at Mercedes (Lauda, Wolff etc). What Nico has said is basically the opposite, so thats good! :up:

Edited by Smitla321, 06 March 2013 - 18:11.


#2775 jjcale

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 18:49

He is saying that its good news that there is good communication in the team. A lot of people speculated that communication within the team would suffer because we have a lot of serious names that all have serious input now working at Mercedes (Lauda, Wolff etc). What Nico has said is basically the opposite, so thats good! :up:


Yes .... plus I am maintaining my usual scepticism of F1 PR bullshit ... as Nico seems to be born to be "good cop" ..... so whilst I am superficially pleased with the quote, it actually makes me suspicious that he felt the need to say that at all.

Hope that's not too confusing.... best to draw your own conclusions ... but I just found the quote interesting given its context of the firing of Haug followed by Lauda and Wolff's arrival... the [media] confusion as to Lowe's role vs Brawn's and the fact they have hired 3 or for TDs and none of us on the outside can work out how all these various folks are meant to relate to each other.

#2776 dans79

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 19:33

Hope that's not too confusing.... best to draw your own conclusions ... but I just found the quote interesting given its context of the firing of Haug followed by Lauda and Wolff's arrival... the [media] confusion as to Lowe's role vs Brawn's and the fact they have hired 3 or for TDs and none of us on the outside can work out how all these various folks are meant to relate to each other.


I read it as the new structure is more efficient. Over the years, I have seen entire departments do a 180 after a manager was replaced with someone who actually knows how to lead.


#2777 Markn93

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 19:41

Now Horner's at it http://www.dailymail...-F1-season.html



#2778 Timstr11

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 19:56

Yes .... plus I am maintaining my usual scepticism of F1 PR bullshit ... as Nico seems to be born to be "good cop" ..... so whilst I am superficially pleased with the quote, it actually makes me suspicious that he felt the need to say that at all.

Hope that's not too confusing.... best to draw your own conclusions ... but I just found the quote interesting given its context of the firing of Haug followed by Lauda and Wolff's arrival... the [media] confusion as to Lowe's role vs Brawn's and the fact they have hired 3 or for TDs and none of us on the outside can work out how all these various folks are meant to relate to each other.

I don't understand this. TD is not a title for life. It's merely a job role.
Till now I've had 4 different job roles in the company I currently work for but all with different job titles and job descriptions.

Forget the names for a moment and think of the roles. It makes complete sense. Especially the engineering side (which is what is mostly important in terms of car design).
I dare say this structure is not dissimilar to other teams. You just don't know them because they are not big names.

-Team Principal
-Technical Director (responsible for overall coordination on a more strategic level)
-Engineering Director (responsible for the chassis design)
-Head of Aero (responsible for the shape of the car)
-Head of Simulation and Vehicle Dynamics (responsible for simulation systems and technologies Windtunnel/CFD/Sim/x-poster rigs).

Edited by Timstr11, 06 March 2013 - 19:58.


#2779 windtravels

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 20:02

Well if those times were just for PR [i dont think they were] they have been highly successful!



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#2780 Obi Offiah

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 20:10

Now Horner's at it http://www.dailymail...-F1-season.html

I wonder if we can compare this to comments made at the end of previous tests, as well as the performances those cars (the ones that became the talk of testing) actually delivered during qualification and the race in Melbourne and Malaysia.

#2781 bonjon1979a

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 20:39

I wonder if we can compare this to comments made at the end of previous tests, as well as the performances those cars (the ones that became the talk of testing) actually delivered during qualification and the race in Melbourne and Malaysia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17284142

He predicted jb would be the biggest threat following testing last year...

#2782 amppatel

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:05

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17284142

He predicted jb would be the biggest threat following testing last year...


Well I guess he can't account for JB cracking under pressure so I guess he isn't just talking crap...

#2783 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:10

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17284142

He predicted jb would be the biggest threat following testing last year...


To be fair, after Australia he was right He couldn't know what was going to happen later in the season.

#2784 MercPower

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:19

When a team is so fast in testing the season usually turns out bad, 2009 apart!!

Could be a see saw thread this one

#2785 Kvothe

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:23

Now Horner's at it http://www.dailymail...-F1-season.html


Love this comment:

'Their car has looked quick and with Lewis joining the team, they have taken a step forward. He is worth lap times and that's why they have signed him. Lewis is a world-class driver and is going to raise their level. They will be a factor this season.'


If I only I had enough room on my sig.

Edited by Kvothe, 06 March 2013 - 21:23.


#2786 oligc94

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:28

Now Horner's at it http://www.dailymail...-F1-season.html


He sounds surprisingly warm towards Lewis. Maybe eyeing him up after Vettel jumps ship? :lol:


#2787 oligc94

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:35

If I only I had enough room on my sig.


Fortunately I had space in mine :)


#2788 Kvothe

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:52

Fortunately I had space in mine :)


It is with a mixture of both sadness and bitterness that I present you with this:


:up:

#2789 Markn93

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 21:58

It is with a mixture of both sadness and bitterness that I present you with this:


:up:


Where's mine? :p

Also regarding your sig, is not half green, half red perhaps more suitable for Barcelona Test II? I'd hazard a guess that's what most Lewis/Merc fans felt :wave:

#2790 BigCHrome

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 22:26

For sure Nico has a future in PR but this is an interesting quote .... seeing that most of us have assumed the opposite would be the case given their top heavy structure in recent times.


The only ones who assumed the opposite are the people that didn't know anything and just screamed " TOO MANY CHIEFS IN THE KITCHEN !!!!"

He is saying that its good news that there is good communication in the team. A lot of people speculated that communication within the team would suffer because we have a lot of serious names that all have serious input now working at Mercedes (Lauda, Wolff etc). What Nico has said is basically the opposite, so thats good! :up:


Lauda and Wolff have zero to do with the design of the car. Wolff takes over Haug's job and Lauda is another link between Stuttgart and Brackley.

#2791 P123

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 22:35

All of the praise only means something if they're still saying it after Melbourne. So far nothing to get excited about. The swing from second row to tenth on the grid could turn out to be no more than three or four tenths.

#2792 Obi Offiah

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 22:36

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/17284142

He predicted jb would be the biggest threat following testing last year...

bonjon I could almost swear that Horner made a similar statement at seasons end 2011?

#2793 bonjon1979a

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 22:49

Maybe obi, not sure.

This dude has merc a close 3rd behind rb and mac. Seems about right to me...

Www.blogf1.it

#2794 jjcale

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 00:55

The only ones who assumed the opposite are the people that didn't know anything and just screamed " TOO MANY CHIEFS IN THE KITCHEN !!!!"



Lauda and Wolff have zero to do with the design of the car. Wolff takes over Haug's job and Lauda is another link between Stuttgart and Brackley.


The car is good and things are currently going well (due to work that predated the latest round of changes at Merc) .... lets be happy about that.... but it does not mean that the " TOO MANY CHIEFS IN THE KITCHEN !!!!" crowd are wrong ... the test will come later to see what is produced by the new set up and if things start to go wrong to see if they hang together rather than hang separately.

I don't understand this. TD is not a title for life. It's merely a job role.
Till now I've had 4 different job roles in the company I currently work for but all with different job titles and job descriptions.


Fair enough.

Forget the names for a moment and think of the roles. It makes complete sense. Especially the engineering side (which is what is mostly important in terms of car design).
I dare say this structure is not dissimilar to other teams. You just don't know them because they are not big names.

-Team Principal
-Technical Director (responsible for overall coordination on a more strategic level)
-Engineering Director (responsible for the chassis design)
-Head of Aero (responsible for the shape of the car)
-Head of Simulation and Vehicle Dynamics (responsible for simulation systems and technologies Windtunnel/CFD/Sim/x-poster rigs).


The big names is a major part of the issue.... but yeah you could be right ... or you may not ... and that's also part of my point... no one outside has worked out what the structure is - so given the big names it is rational to file this under "risks" for the time being.

Edited by jjcale, 07 March 2013 - 00:59.


#2795 BigCHrome

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:03

The car is good and things are currently going well (due to work that predated the latest round of changes at Merc) .... lets be happy about that.... but it does not mean that the " TOO MANY CHIEFS IN THE KITCHEN !!!!" crowd are wrong ... the test will come later to see what is produced by the new set up and if things start to go wrong to see if they hang together rather than hang separately.


I don't agree. Even if the car turns out to be really bad, there's no evidence that it's due to the amount of people in the team that used to be TD's at other teams.

#2796 jjcale

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:06

I don't agree. Even if the car turns out to be really bad, there's no evidence that it's due to the amount of people in the team that used to be TD's at other teams.


No no ... my point is not that they will be cause of the problem (in fact I would expect a better car based on the number of top notch folks working on it) ... it is that there is a greater risk of in fighting if things dont go well... or even if things just dont go brilliantly.

Edited by jjcale, 07 March 2013 - 01:08.


#2797 BigCHrome

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:32

Still don't agree. They all have different jobs, and besides, these are very smart and civilized people. Not your typical big ego hooligans from the local football team.

#2798 Cool Beans

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:53

Still don't agree. They all have different jobs, and besides, these are very smart and civilized people. Not your typical big ego hooligans from the local football team.

I remember a smart and civilized Ferrari engineer faxing over technical drawings to the rival and sabotaging his own cars... all this because another person got promoted to a position he felt he deserved. I've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of civilized people are actually ****ing idiots deep down.

#2799 DutchCruijff

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 01:58

All that's required is the Alonso kiss of death and then we can safely write off 2013.

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#2800 KiloWatt

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 06:40

Now Horner's at it http://www.dailymail...-F1-season.html


Why are they all picking on us?! :drunk: