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Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


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#3001 D.M.N.

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 09:58

Same applies here as it does in the McLaren thread.

- Car thread -> here
- Driver vs Driver thread -> http://forums.autosp...howtopic=178838

Nico vs Lewis talk does not belong here.

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#3002 femi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:13

Yes, but I think that is not what she was asking about. Increasing DF always increases drag. The bigger the drag, the less the straightline speed. What she is asking is, is there a point when you have increased the DF so much, that the increased drag that comes with it compromises your straightline speed to the extent that it is counteractive in terms of laptime? I think there is. On low Df circuits especially, but in theory anywhere.


Thanks guys for indulging me with your responses. I suspect there are more of us that are benefitting for them.

What I have deduced is that the W04 does not necessarily have to be at RB df levels to compete with them, she just needs to be at optimum level, assuming RB is at excessive levels and I am not suggesting that as I do not know.

Is this what you guys mean by "aero effiiciency"? I have watched video clips of both cars and to me, they both looked to be equally on "rails" as you guys put it even when the W04 is pushing (judginging by laptime) and RB not as much (also looking at laptime).

I have also read everywhere that W04 has superior "mechanical grip" which to my understanding (please feel free to correct me) is a function of front car suspension / FW. If this is correct, is front DF a function of front suspension and rear DF a function of car aero?

NR has consistently said that the W04 is well balanced, to me it sounds like breaking stability, corner entry and exit afterall these are the zones where times are gained and lost in F1. The question is how can a F1 car be well balanced and not so hot in DF?

I am relying on you guys to make sense of my questions and provide easy to understand answers :)

#3003 itsademo

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:41

To our forum aero guys, what do you guys make of the discussion going on in W04 thread@ F1technical, it took off with this comment from FerrariPilot:



If true, it might be AN has come up with a "magic bullet". The thing is W03 spotted something like that last year, so Merc aero guys must know something about it. Maybe as some guys are arguing the W04 does not need it. I will be looking at the Merc @Aussie closely to see if the rear break ducts are spotting these "flow conditioners"

The actual quote is at about the middle of the page below and has been dominating that thread discussion hence:

http://www.f1technic...c...&start=1320

One thing we can be certain of is if an armchair expert has seen them then i am certain all the teams will have and propably simulated them in their CFD systems (just like they do with many other parts the other teams try out during testing).
It may well be something that adds if you design your whole backend round it or it may be something their backend NEEDS, or as its testing just something that was tried out to see if it did what they hoped and may never be seen again, or indeed it could be "A Newey Special"
Australia will answer some of those questions till then its all speculation.

#3004 HopkinsonF1

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:46

Increasing DF always increases drag.


Not always. There are ways of generating downforce that create less drag than others (ground effect and blown diffusers, especially). If you can increase the downforce generated by those, and remove draggier parts (winglets, monkey seats, gurney flaps), then you can increase the car's downforce without increasing drag.

#3005 Szoelloe

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:53

Not always. There are ways of generating downforce that create less drag than others (ground effect and blown diffusers, especially). If you can increase the downforce generated by those, and remove draggier parts (winglets, monkey seats, gurney flaps), then you can increase the car's downforce without increasing drag.


Yep. Exactly what originally started the discussion.


#3006 mattferg

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:59

I know slightly off topic, but what's the calculation used per kilo of fuel to subtract time, like how many seconds per lap does a kilo add and how much is run at quali time? Also, what were the fastest times overall for the top 5 teams in barca, including Merc?

#3007 femi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:35

I think Mercedes will impress this year

- Lewis Hamilton

Edited by femi, 10 March 2013 - 12:35.


#3008 teejay

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:35

Check the testing thread?

#3009 0113Greenall

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:41


Just got this autodesk package from work, Its the newest 1, And im hoping to do some simulation for the W04 to see how the areo flow ect works (for my own fun, NOT for mercedes) to clear that up. Doubt it can be 100% accurate as il be basically tracing cars on cad for the general design. After a few weeks i should have a semi accurate model to show working :up:

#3010 jjcale

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:50

Thanks guys for indulging me with your responses. I suspect there are more of us that are benefitting for them.

What I have deduced is that the W04 does not necessarily have to be at RB df levels to compete with them, she just needs to be at optimum level, assuming RB is at excessive levels and I am not suggesting that as I do not know.

Is this what you guys mean by "aero effiiciency"? I have watched video clips of both cars and to me, they both looked to be equally on "rails" as you guys put it even when the W04 is pushing (judginging by laptime) and RB not as much (also looking at laptime).

I have also read everywhere that W04 has superior "mechanical grip" which to my understanding (please feel free to correct me) is a function of front car suspension / FW. If this is correct, is front DF a function of front suspension and rear DF a function of car aero?

NR has consistently said that the W04 is well balanced, to me it sounds like breaking stability, corner entry and exit afterall these are the zones where times are gained and lost in F1. The question is how can a F1 car be well balanced and not so hot in DF?

I am relying on you guys to make sense of my questions and provide easy to understand answers :)


This is something that I have been wondering about .... the difference in on track stability betweed Redbull and other top cars (ie being on rails) is so striking that either they will run away with the titles this year or they have overdone adding downforce to their car..... this is why I have them and Merc as this year's wild cards - Merc because its a new car whilst the others are evolutions and Redbull because its hard to believe they are so far a head of the others in such an important regard.

The Merc is not any better balanced than say the Ferrari and the Lotus ... Merc seems to have caught up with Macca, Ferrari and Lotus and if its faster than them its only marginally so ... but with Redbull they either have put too much downforce on or we may have another 2011 .....I am keeping fingers crossed that they overdid it. JMHO

#3011 race addicted

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 12:59

Too much downforce? Too much?

#3012 study

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:02

Too much downforce, too much drag, slower on the straights.

#3013 BernieEc

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:08

Too much downforce, too much drag, slower on the straights.

sounds like a redbull description.

Just don't know if to quantify it as too much downforce

#3014 race addicted

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:10

That's a non-issue. These are the best aerodynamicists in the world, and knows how to balance aero vs drag, even if they don't always get it right on the first try.

...then again, if this unheard of situation should incur, then shouldn't it be very simple to just take off some downforce? :drunk:

#3015 Shiroo

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:11

not really DF gives you more drag. If you have a good car that naturally has good DF, you dont need to put wings (that mostly generate drag) to insane sizes. Also internal drag can be somehow reduced.

So not always more DF = less speed

#3016 femi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:14

Too much downforce, too much drag, slower on the straights.



To the degree that there is excessive retardation force due to friction?

#3017 Szoelloe

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:16

sounds like a redbull description.

Just don't know if to quantify it as too much downforce


Nobody even implied that.




That's a non-issue. These are the best aerodynamicists in the world, and knows how to balance aero vs drag, even if they don't always get it right on the first try.

...then again, if this unheard of situation should incur, then shouldn't it be very simple to just take off some downforce? :drunk:


ehmm, what are you talking about exactly?


#3018 femi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:17

That's a non-issue. These are the best aerodynamicists in the world, and knows how to balance aero vs drag, even if they don't always get it right on the first try.

...then again, if this unheard of situation should incur, then shouldn't it be very simple to just take off some downforce? :drunk:


Sure, I will hope so. Which in turn will bring them down to the level of others, no? Assuming taking DF off will not affect the stability of the car.. Guys, I am not arguing since this is not my area of specailization but rather hoping you guys will get engaged and shed more light or lights :)

Edited by femi, 10 March 2013 - 13:19.


#3019 Timstr11

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:22

To the degree that there is excessive retardation force due to friction?

There's always a trade-off. More df also gives better cornering speeds, not just slower straight line speeds.
The settings that give you the fastest laptime is the best balance between df and drag.
The most efficient cars will give the most downforce for the least of drag. Generally the leading cars are the most aero efficient.

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#3020 femi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:25

There's always a trade-off. More df also gives better cornering speeds, not just slower straight line speeds.
The settings that give you the fastest laptime is the best balance between df and drag.
The most efficient cars will give the most downforce for the least of drag. Generally the leading cars are the most aero efficient.


Thanks, you have just defined what you guys mean by "aero efficiency" :up:

#3021 BernieEc

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:25

There's always a trade-off. More df also gives better cornering speeds, not just slower straight line speeds.
The settings that give you the fastest laptime is the best balance between df and drag.
The most efficient cars will give the most downforce for the least of drag. Generally the leading cars are the most aero efficient.


:up:

#3022 race addicted

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:25

ehmm, what are you talking about exactly?


Downforce. :kiss:

#3023 bauss

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:25

@Femi to attempt to tackle your question... remember when teams use to have cars with different downforce settings /rear wings on different tracks?

Now it only changes much for Spa and Monza, Monaco n such extreme tracks. In Monaco, the car is loaded with dirty downforce (i.e. downforce with high drag penalty but they don't care cos of the track), while in Monza, downforce with a certain level of drag penalty is taken off.

The Red Bull car and philosophy has been to load the car always with a lot of downforce, that is how the car is built.... they get some drag penalty, but it is not so much that they are unable to win. Basically there will be tracks where that extra downforce will make them hard to beat e.g. Spain / Hungary.
For example, turn 9 in Spain, if you carry more speed through there, the benefit is not just through that corner but the long straight after...
But on tracks with a few more straights and less high speed corners the effect is lessened.

Basically optimum aero efficiency params for each track is different but because of the rules, tires and DF being at premium, most tracks need as much DF as possible short of ban door rear wings.

Apart from pure downforce, one of the big strengths of the RB in 2010 and 2011 was the offthrottle blowing thing, which made their car considerably faster in slower corners or off throttle than the rest. Before this, mechanical grip and normal df was the big thing in slow corners.... with the ban/limitations, it will be mechanical grip/ normal df again.

So now, how can car B with lesser downforce be faster than A? It depends on the track and the qualities of car B. If car B has more straightline speed and better mechanical grip/suspension than A, depending on the track, the driver may be able to compensate for lack of downforce... e.g. a track like Canada with long straights and slow corners.

As for balance, it is quite complex.. the simple thing will be that front df/rear df/weight distribution params/driveability etc are ideal enough to give the driver confidence when attacking the track.
The RedBull always looks the most balanced, but as LH has shown attimes in his time at McLaren...it can still be beat on pure pace with a car that doesn't look as "balanced".

E.g. in Abu Dhabi last year, the Red Bull still looked on rails but with the upgraded McLaren, LH was able to do his thing in qualifying.

Which brings me to my final point why I still don't fear Red Bull as much as some reports suggest I should... the biggest thing RedBull had in their most fearsome days wasn't just pure downforce, it was the off throttle thing... its the difference btw LH's competitiveness in qualifying in Abu Dhabi in 2012 and 2011/2010. It was where they had the most advantage over everyone. As long as they don't have some trick to replicate this again, they shouldn't be so far away from the pack.

Overall, my feeling is that if other teams did indeed find more downforce over the winter, they should be closer to Red Bull enough to make Red Bull's lack of straightline speed pay on some tracks.

Edited by bauss, 10 March 2013 - 13:30.


#3024 femi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:35

@Femi to attempt to tackle your question... remember when teams use to have cars with different downforce settings /rear wings on different tracks?

Now it only changes much for Spa and Monza, Monaco n such extreme tracks. In Monaco, the car is loaded with dirty downforce (i.e. downforce with high drag penalty but they don't care cos of the track), while in Monza, downforce with a certain level of drag penalty is taken off.

The Red Bull car and philosophy has been to load the car always with a lot of downforce, that is how the car is built.... they get some drag penalty, but it is not so much that they are unable to win. Basically there will be tracks where that extra downforce will make them hard to beat e.g. Spain / Hungary.
For example, turn 9 in Spain, if you carry more speed through there, the benefit is not just through that corner but the long straight after...
But on tracks with a few more straights and less high speed corners the effect is lessened.

Basically optimum aero efficiency params for each track is different but because of the rules, tires and DF being at premium, most tracks need as much DF as possible short of ban door rear wings.

Apart from pure downforce, one of the big strengths of the RB in 2010 and 2011 was the offthrottle blowing thing, which made their car considerably faster in slower corners or off throttle than the rest. Before this, mechanical grip and normal df was the big thing in slow corners.... with the ban/limitations, it will be mechanical grip/ normal df again.

So now, how can car B with lesser downforce be faster than A? It depends on the track and the qualities of car B. If car B has more straightline speed and better mechanical grip/suspension than A, depending on the track, the driver may be able to compensate for lack of downforce... e.g. a track like Canada with long straights and slow corners.

As for balance, it is quite complex.. the simple thing will be that front df/rear df/weight distribution params/driveability etc are ideal enough to give the driver confidence when attacking the track.
The RedBull always looks the most balanced, but as LH has shown attimes in his time at McLaren...it can still be beat on pure pace with a car that doesn't look so "balanced".

E.g. in Abu Dhabi last year, the Red Bull still looked on rails but with the upgraded McLaren, LH was able to do his thing in qualifying.

Which brings me to my final point why I still don't fear Red Bull as much as some reports suggest I should... the biggest thing RedBull had in their most fearsome days wasn't just pure downforce, it was the off throttle thing... its the difference btw LH's competitiveness in qualifying in Abu Dhabi in 2012 and 2011/2010. It was where they had the most advantage over everyone. As long as they don't have some trick to replicate this again, they shouldn't be so far away from the pack.

Overall, my feeling is that if other teams did indeed find more downforce over the winter, they should be closer to Red Bull enough to make Red Bull's lack of straightline speed pay on some tracks.


Thank you very much Bauss, that is what my relatively little knowledge and gut feel were telling me. Basically, I was asking myself why the Mclaren was the fastest car for most of last season without been deemed to equal RB df levels...

#3025 study

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:35

There's always a trade-off. More df also gives better cornering speeds, not just slower straight line speeds.
The settings that give you the fastest laptime is the best balance between df and drag.
The most efficient cars will give the most downforce for the least of drag. Generally the leading cars are the most aero efficient.


Case examples.


Force India and going further back, the Arrows cars, both these are very fast in a straight line, and produce very little aero drag, just they was never quickest in a lap.

#3026 study

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:54

Any reliability worries?

1st two tests had issues, but the last Barcelona seemed issue free

#3027 femi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:54

I have to say that you guys have provided a lot of information even though I am still trying to put all them together in a coherent fashion, I will keep working on them.
Now one more question, what is the relationship between traction (without traction control) and DF.

Let me give 2 examples to further explain my question; last season, I don't remember which race it was but it was one of the later races where LH was catching Vettel ar the rate of naughts but somehow Vettel was able to pull away and gain valuable breathing space at corner exits. I remember the tv commentator (Brundle?) saying the RB had better traction than the Mac. I observed the same happening at the last test when NR was on Mediums and Alonso was on Softs. Alonso will catch up but NR will power away from him at corner exits. The Sky commentator said NR had better traction.

#3028 study

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 13:57

yeah upto 2009 McLaren used to be supreme in mechanical grip, for some reason along with the stiff sprung suspension they seemed to have lost it.

By all accounts Merc is now the best with Mechanical grip and is able to do the pull away at the corner exit trick, I presume it'll make the mercs very hard to overtake even if they are slower.

#3029 Szoelloe

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 14:03

I have to say that you guys have provided a lot of information even though I am still trying to put all them together in a coherent fashion, I will keep working on them.
Now one more question, what is the relationship between traction (without traction control) and DF.

Let me give 2 examples to further explain my question; last season, I don't remember which race it was but it was one of the later races where LH was catching Vettel ar the rate of naughts but somehow Vettel was able to pull away and gain valuable breathing space at corner exits. I remember the tv commentator (Brundle?) saying the RB had better traction than the Mac. I observed the same happening at the last test when NR was on Mediums and Alonso was on Softs. Alonso will catch up but NR will power away from him at corner exits. The Sky commentator said NR had better traction.


Ok. Your post is not unlike Snooty's, though for all the different reasons. What do you mean by 'shape, 'internal structure' and 'placement'? If it would be easy, as undersquare has kindly pointed out, Caterham would be up there. The exhaust solution is responsible for a smaller part of overall DF, though obviously important, but it cannot be spoken of individually. It is definitely not a 'bolt-on' solution to increase DF(see the W03 last season). It is integrated into a design, carefully considering, designing and fine-tuning every area of the car, from the tip of the nose to the rear wheels, all working towards a well-balanced overall DF level (Since it is the last season for the current regs, "too long" has no meaning anymore in the context you mentioned it). Even that though, is not all that makes a car function at a given level. You imply that mech traction could make the difference between two cars with a similar DF level. Again, superb mechanical traction is not a silver bullet in itself, I do believe it could be counteractive, if not in harmony with any given car's aero, but yes, it could add a lot. 'Traction' and 'mech traction' are not the same things either. While 'mech traction' I think is related mostly to the suspension itself, 'traction' of a car is the overall effect of all the above spoken factors, plus some. The majority of the teams have decent mech traction too, the differences are not that big, IMHO. Saying all that, this year's pirellis are so far a mystery for every team, it seems. On the long run, it will all come down to who could exploit them more on a given stint in race trim, which, as usual gives a special importance to one-lap speed too. Being efficient with the tyres, considering the above, is not going to be down to a great suspension only. Anyone with engineering knowledge, do feel free to correct me if I am wrong though. Just my 2 cents.





#3030 femi

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 14:14


I remember that post of yours. I stopped reading after the first sentence and it is not difficult to see why..

@STudy, thx for the effor. :up:

#3031 KiloWatt

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 14:27

By all accounts Merc is now the best with Mechanical grip and is able to do the pull away at the corner exit trick, I presume it'll make the mercs very hard to overtake even if they are slower.


A word of caution, to my knowlegde no one of high esteem ever claimed the mercedes to be superior to anyone in terms of mechanical grip. That notion was spread by someone of indeterminate skill that may or may not have been at Barca 2.

That's what I gathered from it, and I've been following the developments pretty carefully. But I'll be happy to be proven wrong, because you have no idea how much I'd love merc to brutally slaughter the competition.

#3032 jjcale

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 14:30

Nobody even implied that.


....


I did ... we are at the end of a set of regs and Redbull should not be so far out front of the others re availablity of downforce ... the other 4 top cars look pretty similar ....so its either going to be 2011 again or Redbull have got it wrong and have too much downforce.

Yes they can "take off some downforce" but surely that will disrupt their overall concept...

Edited by jjcale, 10 March 2013 - 14:33.


#3033 undersquare

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 14:31


Just got this autodesk package from work, Its the newest 1, And im hoping to do some simulation for the W04 to see how the areo flow ect works (for my own fun, NOT for mercedes) to clear that up. Doubt it can be 100% accurate as il be basically tracing cars on cad for the general design. After a few weeks i should have a semi accurate model to show working :up:


Very cool :up:

#3034 Szoelloe

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 14:37

I did ... we are at the end of a set of regs and Redbull should not be so far out front of the others re avaiablity of downforce ... the other 4 top cars look pretty similar ....so its either going to be 2011 again or Redbull have got it wrong and have too much downforce.

Yes they can "take off some downforce" but surely that will disrupt their overall concept...


Well, you are trying to say that RB is running out of options, and try to rationalize that with the wrong reasons.
I'd say let's agree to disagree.


#3035 BillBald

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 15:10

I did ... we are at the end of a set of regs and Redbull should not be so far out front of the others re availablity of downforce ... the other 4 top cars look pretty similar ....so its either going to be 2011 again or Redbull have got it wrong and have too much downforce.

Yes they can "take off some downforce" but surely that will disrupt their overall concept...


It seems very unlikely that Red Bull could have too much downforce for most circuits, unless they have found new tricks to get back full EBD etc.



#3036 bauss

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 15:14

its crazy how this season went from least anticipated to most anticipated for me...

so many questions I need answered from Melbourne onwards.

Will try to bury my mind in work and other stuff to keep me from being too giddy with excitement b4 FP1....which I will be staying up to watch

Edited by bauss, 10 March 2013 - 15:14.


#3037 jjcale

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 15:38

Well, you are trying to say that RB is running out of options, and try to rationalize that with the wrong reasons.
I'd say let's agree to disagree.


It seems very unlikely that Red Bull could have too much downforce for most circuits, unless they have found new tricks to get back full EBD etc.


Maybe they have run out of efficient downforce options like EBD .... purely speculating now.

[/OT]

Edited by jjcale, 10 March 2013 - 15:40.


#3038 study

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 17:43

Its less then a week before we find out but it feels a long time.

As I have loads of holidays left I have taken friday off so I can stay up all night and watch practice live. I feel its either going be really exciting or very disappointing, I think both Nico and Lewis will be on it at 1st as they are both always quick out of the box, its then a wait to see how the others catch up and pass.

While I want to believe they have improved greatly, I really can't believe they will have done, a merc in the top 5 will be awesome, anything more then that :love:

#3039 OoxLox

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 18:55

We need a copy of the McLaren thread's traditional pre-season mood swingometer. If you could aggregate all the Merc fans into one person, it'd be a bipolar giant swinging between grinning with manic optimism and grey-faced, fingernail-chewing gloom. It's got to be the most frustrating pre-season countdown for years as it's so hard to read the winter tests - makes you wonder what it'll be like a year from now when we're on the cusp of a new era altogether :drunk:

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#3040 FSLIV

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 19:21

its crazy how this season went from least anticipated to most anticipated for me...

so many questions I need answered from Melbourne onwards.

Will try to bury my mind in work and other stuff to keep me from being too giddy with excitement b4 FP1....which I will be staying up to watch


I wholeheartedly agree with you. I pretty much wrote this year off until testing. If Merc could be in the top 5 and its close I will be content.

#3041 BigCHrome

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 19:33

You guys are over thinking this. I'm almost sure that the top cars will all be very close, "stability" or not. Everyone is converging to the same design paths. Red Bull won't dominate like 2011, they won't magically fall off the pace either. I'll be amazed if the top 5 teams aren't within .5-.6s within each other, adjusted for driver's ability.


Just got this autodesk package from work, Its the newest 1, And im hoping to do some simulation for the W04 to see how the areo flow ect works (for my own fun, NOT for mercedes) to clear that up. Doubt it can be 100% accurate as il be basically tracing cars on cad for the general design. After a few weeks i should have a semi accurate model to show working :up:


Great! Thanks.

#3042 KiloWatt

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 19:49

We need a copy of the McLaren thread's traditional pre-season mood swingometer....


Whoa hold on there! I was a McLaren fan for most of my F1 watching time until 2010. And that damn swingometer is just one of the many things I don't miss about them. :p

(I miss the whole 'winning' thing though)

#3043 slmk

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 23:15

http://formulaoneana...3-03032013.html

The tyre deg of the Mercedes is, to me, the biggest unknown. The car seems to have strong mechanical grip and one-lap pace, though seems to lack a little bit of downforce.

#3044 amppatel

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 23:59

GA says he thinks NR will win AUS (BBC Season Preview)

I think he just talks shit for the sake of it... I love it

#3045 Juggles

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:07

GA says he thinks NR will win AUS (BBC Season Preview)

I think he just talks shit for the sake of it... I love it


It's hardly an absurd prediction...certainly not absurd enough to risk looking as silly as you will if Rosberg wins.

#3046 Hairy

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:03

It's hardly an absurd prediction...certainly not absurd enough to risk looking as silly as you will if Rosberg wins.


It is an absurd prediction, and I think GA will look an awful lot sillier if he is wrong, than the other chap.

#3047 Timstr11

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:37

BBC article about Mercedes' sim:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21733592

#3048 PretentiousBread

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:43

It is an absurd prediction, and I think GA will look an awful lot sillier if he is wrong, than the other chap.


Since when has predicting that the fastest guy in testing might be favourite for the first race of the season been 'absurd'? It's far, far from certain, but it's clearly not absurd. Honestly....

#3049 PretentiousBread

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:47

GA says he thinks NR will win AUS (BBC Season Preview)

I think he just talks shit for the sake of it... I love it


Are you referring to his own written preview or last night's preview on 5 Live radio?

His own written grid order was just a calculation he made of the best testing times from Barcelona with fuel correction (estimated), and he simply said that if they lined up at Melbourne based on these times, that this is how it would appear. He never said this was his actual prediction for the grid, any more than he said that he had scientifically quantified that Red Bull had exactly 10% more downforce than anyone else, as people keep idiotically taking this to mean.

#3050 boldhakka

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:47

BBC article about Mercedes' sim:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21733592


Nice article, thanks.