Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 24 votes

Mercedes-AMG 2013 W04


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4001 replies to this topic

#3601 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:18

When they put new RW, it is probably already exactly the same as one it replace. RW are not so complicated.


I see a loophole. Nothing stops the team from setting it up as they want rather as it exactly was. Unless the FIA agents in the garage had made an accurate note of how it was. This does not apply to RWs alone btw.

No existing thread to take this to and don't want to create one for a couple of comments.

Anyway, back on topic.

Advertisement

#3602 molpid

molpid
  • Member

  • 221 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:29

IDing drivers will be hard, in this shot even the t-cam looks grayish on hamilton's car

Posted Image

#3603 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 16 March 2013 - 10:39

I see a loophole. Nothing stops the team from setting it up as they want rather as it exactly was. Unless the FIA agents in the garage had made an accurate note of how it was. This does not apply to RWs alone btw.

No existing thread to take this to and don't want to create one for a couple of comments.

Anyway, back on topic.

they can change things during Q1/Q2 or when they are in garage, ofc if time allows them to. So they can change settings that are easy to change etc. Though they won't replace parts that easy or engine :)

#3604 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:03

Any news about NR gearbox that failed during FP1? I am not sure what the regulations says such circumstance, could Merc replace that gearbox without incurring penality?

#3605 autogp

autogp
  • New Member

  • 5 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:06

I saw somewhere that LH has a broken splitter, can this be fixed for tomorrow?
Also I wonder what their setups are; do they both have roughly the same dry weather setup ready for tomorrow? Nico has said he would be on the first row if its wet...

No meantion of dry.

#3606 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,584 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:07

Nope, femi, the counting starts from Saturday morning, so no penalty for engine- or gearbox failure during Friday free.

...btw, parc fermé rules apply from Q1, which means nowadays, you can basically only adjust the front wing.

Edited by race addicted, 16 March 2013 - 11:07.


#3607 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:11

Nope, femi, the counting starts from Saturday morning, so no penalty for engine- or gearbox failure during Friday free.

...btw, parc fermé rules apply from Q1, which means nowadays, you can basically only adjust the front wing.

well if you are fast enough and Q2 lasts 15min you can do whatever you want in that time (but it needs to be during Qualifications time).

#3608 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,662 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:21

Any news about NR gearbox that failed during FP1? I am not sure what the regulations says such circumstance, could Merc replace that gearbox without incurring penality?

The gearbox did not fail mechanically. It was an electronic issue.

#3609 InfectedPumpkin

InfectedPumpkin
  • Member

  • 535 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:22

we are fast! podium is very realistic!

#3610 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:31

Nope, femi, the counting starts from Saturday morning, so no penalty for engine- or gearbox failure during Friday free.

...btw, parc fermé rules apply from Q1, which means nowadays, you can basically only adjust the front wing.



Thanks man :)

#3611 riano

riano
  • Member

  • 51 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:11

when autosport says the jerez time was set with a low ride height that can't be used in a race, what is the reason it can't be used? It is outside the minimum ride height allowed or just because of practicalities?

#3612 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:14

when autosport says the jerez time was set with a low ride height that can't be used in a race, what is the reason it can't be used? It is outside the minimum ride height allowed or just because of practicalities?


Are you sure that wasn't about McLaren?

#3613 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:15

when autosport says the jerez time was set with a low ride height that can't be used in a race, what is the reason it can't be used? It is outside the minimum ride height allowed or just because of practicalities?

cause they set it with ultra low ride height and low fuel. If you would set such height and would add fuel, you would spark everywhere and destroy a floor/car and get DNF

#3614 Wingnut

Wingnut
  • Member

  • 711 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:15

when autosport says the jerez time was set with a low ride height that can't be used in a race, what is the reason it can't be used? It is outside the minimum ride height allowed or just because of practicalities?


Too low for a full tank of fuel?

#3615 Guizotia

Guizotia
  • Member

  • 1,347 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 16 March 2013 - 12:43

when autosport says the jerez time was set with a low ride height that can't be used in a race, what is the reason it can't be used? It is outside the minimum ride height allowed or just because of practicalities?


Aren't you replying to a conversation in the McLaren thread?

#3616 HaPe

HaPe
  • Member

  • 1,016 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 16 March 2013 - 13:01

The gearbox did not fail mechanically. It was an electronic issue.

Hm ...in TV they said it was an oil leak and the team was aware before he actually stopped, but decided to let him out on track to gain tracktime rather than to pit and repair (and losing the rest of the training).

Edited by HaPe, 16 March 2013 - 13:01.


#3617 Jelinski619

Jelinski619
  • Member

  • 534 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 13:53

Any news on why Hamilton was so far off the pace? He did 2-3 laps but still didn't go anywhere near Rosberg. Were there any car problems?

#3618 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 16 March 2013 - 13:56

Any news on why Hamilton was so far off the pace? He did 2-3 laps but still didn't go anywhere near Rosberg. Were there any car problems?

Some say Hamilton matched Rosberg in S1, S2 then had to backout in S3 because of yellow flags crash.
But there's no proof, unless we have a source to Q1 sector times.

#3619 Zoetrope

Zoetrope
  • Member

  • 1,076 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 16 March 2013 - 13:57

Any news on why Hamilton was so far off the pace? He did 2-3 laps but still didn't go anywhere near Rosberg. Were there any car problems?


Probably set-up (didn't have much running on wet FP3) or couldn't get the tyres working on time. I don't think anything was wrong with car.

Advertisement

#3620 rhukkas

rhukkas
  • Member

  • 2,361 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:02

Any news on why Hamilton was so far off the pace? He did 2-3 laps but still didn't go anywhere near Rosberg. Were there any car problems?


Half is rear ring was missing for starters.

#3621 Jejking

Jejking
  • Member

  • 2,423 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:03

Any news on why Hamilton was so far off the pace? He did 2-3 laps but still didn't go anywhere near Rosberg. Were there any car problems?

Could be tyre temp related, to get things up to temperature. He was probed to get his brakes up to temp. That mighthave caused a difference.

#3622 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,849 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:04

Any news on why Hamilton was so far off the pace? He did 2-3 laps but still didn't go anywhere near Rosberg. Were there any car problems?


Did you watch qualifying?



#3623 Nahnever

Nahnever
  • Member

  • 257 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:07

Ross Brawn said on the BBC Qualifying show that Lewis was losing some pace due to the damage. How much time? Only they know.

Following on from that, Ross and Rosberg did say they would prefer a wet qualy though, as they were sure a front row position would have been easier to score.

Edited by Nahnever, 16 March 2013 - 14:09.


#3624 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:18

Probably set-up (didn't have much running on wet FP3) or couldn't get the tyres working on time. I don't think anything was wrong with car.

Why did HAM's car not complete any lap in FP3 that was within 20secs of normal time? was there a problem?

#3625 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,584 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:20

well if you are fast enough and Q2 lasts 15min you can do whatever you want in that time (but it needs to be during Qualifications time).



http://argent.fia.co...REGULATIONS.pdf

"34.2 Each car will be deemed to be in parc fermé from the time at which it leaves the pit lane for the first time during qualifying practice until the start of the race. Any car which fails to leave the pit lane during qualifying practice will be deemed to be in parc fermé at the end of Q1.
Between these times, other than when cars are returned to the parc fermé overnight, the following work may be carried out :
a) Engines may be started.
b) Fuel may be added or removed and a fuel breather fitted.
c) Wheels, wheel fasteners and tyres may be removed, changed or rebalanced and tyre pressures checked.
d) Spark plugs may be removed in order to carry out an internal engine inspection and cylinder compression checks.
e) Permitted heating or cooling devices may be fitted.
f) A jump battery may be connected and on board electrical units may be freely accessed via a physical connection to the car.
g) Charging and / or discharging of the KERS energy storage devices.
h) Removal of the KERS energy storage devices which, once marked by the FIA technical delegate, may be retained overnight by the team.
i) The main electrical battery and radio batteries may be changed.
j) The brake system may be bled.
k) Engine oil may be drained.
l) Compressed gases may be drained or added.
m) Fluids with a specific gravity less than 1.1 may be drained and/or replenished, however, fluids used for replenishment must conform to the same specification as the original fluid.
n) The aerodynamic set up of the front wing may be adjusted using the existing parts. No parts may be added, removed or replaced.
o) If the FIA technical delegate is satisfied that changes in climatic conditions necessitate alterations to the specification of a car, changes may be made to the air ducts around the front and rear brakes and radiator ducts. These changes may be made at any time after the message “CHANGE IN CLIMATIC CONDITIONS” is shown on the timing monitors, from this point the choice of air ducts around the front and rear brakes and radiator ducts is free and pitot tubes may be covered or uncovered, subject always to compliance with the relevant Technical Regulations.
p) Bodywork (excluding radiators) may be removed and/or cleaned.
q) Cosmetic changes may be made to the bodywork and tape may be added.
r) Any part of the car may be cleaned.
s) On board cameras, marshalling system components, timing transponders and any associated equipment may be removed, refitted or checked.
t) Any work required by the FIA technical delegate.
u) Changes to improve the driver's comfort. In this context anything other than the adjustment of mirrors, seat belts and pedals may only be carried out with the specific permission of the FIA technical delegate.
The addition or removal of padding (or similar material) is also permitted but may only be carried out under supervision and, if required by the FIA technical delegate, must be removed before the post-race weighing procedure.
v) Drinking fluid for the driver may be added at any time, however, the capacity of the container for any such fluid must not exceed 1.5 litres.
w) Repair of genuine accident damage.
x) Any parts which are removed from the car in order to carry out any work specifically permitted above, or any parts removed to carry out essential safety checks, must remain close to it and, at all times, be visible to the scrutineer assigned to the relevant car.
Furthermore, any parts removed from the car in order to carry out any such work must be refitted before the car leaves the pit lane.
Any work not listed above may only be undertaken with the approval of the FIA technical delegate following a written request from the team concerned. It must be clear that any replacement part a team wishes to fit is similar in mass, inertia and function to the original. Any parts removed will be retained by the FIA.
However, if a team wishes to change a part during the qualifying session and/or on the grid before the start of the race, this may be done without first seeking the permission of the technical delegate, provided it is reasonable for the relevant team to believe permission would be given if there was time to ask and the broken or damaged part remains in full view of the scrutineer assigned to the car at all times."

#3626 ZooL

ZooL
  • Member

  • 2,063 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:21

Did you watch qualifying?

Did you watch HAM's sector times on last lap, were they purple in S1, S2?

#3627 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
  • Member

  • 3,299 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:22

Why did HAM's car not complete any lap in FP3 that was within 20secs of normal time? was there a problem?

Blooming heck, read the report. it started pi$$ing down with rain after others had set times in dry

#3628 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,584 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:24

Why did HAM's car not complete any lap in FP3 that was within 20secs of normal time? was there a problem?


For some reason, Hamilton only ventured out, on slicks, around 10-15 mins (I think it was) into the session, and on his outlay it started pissing down. Then, he only ran a few laps and none right at the end when a dry line started to appear.

In Q1, he was on his way to probably not beating, but basically matching Rosberg, but then had to back out of it completely due to waved yellows (for Gutierrez.)

Edited by race addicted, 16 March 2013 - 14:41.


#3629 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,849 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:29

Did you watch HAM's sector times on last lap, were they purple in S1, S2?


I can't remember with any great accuracy what they were just that they were pretty good, I've been waiting for 'unofficial sources' to upload live timing so I can confirm the times he set.

#3630 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 1,417 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:33

Do people not realise that the session was chaotic? It was wet, then wetter, then dry(ish), then wet again. There are no conclusions to be drawn from that first qualy session aside from Nico being head and shoulders above the rest. The fastest man would literally have been the last man across the line, lets wait until the end of qualy tonight to draw any conclusions.

#3631 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,792 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:40

Did you watch HAM's sector times on last lap, were they purple in S1, S2?

HAM did not purple S1 and S2 on his last lap - Vettel did. I am not sure whether he would have beaten Rosberg's time had he not aborted the last lap.

#3632 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 16 March 2013 - 14:59

I can't remember with any great accuracy what they were just that they were pretty good, I've been waiting for 'unofficial sources' to upload live timing so I can confirm the times he set.



I don't think there is going to be any official release because it was cancelled, in other words it did not happen.

#3633 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,584 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:05

Q1 was very much official, otherwise the bottom five grid slots wouldn't have been decided, and they have.

#3634 windtravels

windtravels
  • Member

  • 901 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:08

rosberg said he thought front row was definitely possible in the wet today. v good sign. tomorrow will be harder if dry tho.

#3635 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,205 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:09

As an example of in season development, I found this quote from a Aerodynamic Design Engineer working for Mclaren F1.

“An idea can be in the head of an aerodynamicist at the beginning of the day and less than 24 hours later it’s racing around a track on the other side of the world.

- (McLaren’s Alistair Niven)

I hope Merc are at least at this level. More here


#3636 Kvothe

Kvothe
  • Member

  • 6,849 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:10

I don't think there is going to be any official release because it was cancelled, in other words it did not happen.


I wasn't referring to the information released by F.O.M. Some individuals use video capture software to record the live timing screen which can than be played like any other video, I'm just waiting for such an individual to upload it, don't know when that'll be though :well:

#3637 inca_roads

inca_roads
  • Member

  • 1,431 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:26

Did you watch HAM's sector times on last lap, were they purple in S1, S2?


From memory, they weren't purple, they were green, but he was matching Nico's time.

#3638 Grigor

Grigor
  • New Member

  • 3 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:34

Nico's best lap was 35.1, 26.4, 41.7

Lewis' last lap was 34.9, 26.6, 43.3

Vettel was setting purples 34.7, 26.2 then pitted.

#3639 MercPower

MercPower
  • Member

  • 98 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:40

Nico's best lap was 35.1, 26.4, 41.7

Lewis' last lap was 34.9, 26.6, 43.3

Vettel was setting purples 34.7, 26.2 then pitted.



43.3 yellow flags of course, Vettel though :cry: Adrian Newey has done it again.

Dry tomorrow should be Redbull lockout with Mercedes fighting the Ferrari's i think

Advertisement

#3640 pikamoku

pikamoku
  • Member

  • 328 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:43

BTW not W04 related, but, have NR or LH any plan for changing his helmet desing? Yellow and black on grey car :drunk:

#3641 Nigol

Nigol
  • Member

  • 1,135 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:49

Nico's best lap was 35.1, 26.4, 41.7

Lewis' last lap was 34.9, 26.6, 43.3

Vettel was setting purples 34.7, 26.2 then pitted.


Yeah, S1 and S2 were green while Vettels went purple. But I remember the last sector of Hamilton was 2,2 secs slower than Rosbergs, so either you're wrong with 43,3 or I failed at doing the math in the morning.;)

#3642 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 1,417 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 15:50

43.3 yellow flags of course, Vettel though :cry: Adrian Newey has done it again.

Dry tomorrow should be Redbull lockout with Mercedes fighting the Ferrari's i think

I wouldn't be so sure, I do think the RBR is the car to beat at this point in time but not so far ahead they are nailed on for P1 & 2.

#3643 thomin

thomin
  • Member

  • 35 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:34

IDing drivers will be hard, in this shot even the t-cam looks grayish on hamilton's car

Posted Image



From the on-board camera it's very difficult, although there are barely visible grey-ish shapes on Rosberg's helmet, while Hamilton's is all yellow.
From the side, Hamilton's colorful shapes should be visible, while Rosberg has grey shapes. From the front, the only thing to distinguish them is the square above the visor, containing the Mercedes star. On Rosberg's helmet it's grey, on Hamilton's yellow.

Edited by thomin, 16 March 2013 - 16:41.


#3644 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,688 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:39

From the on-board camera it's very difficult, although there are grey-ish shapes on Rosberg's helmet, while Hamilton's is all red.
From the side, Hamilton's colorful shapes should be visible, while Rosberg has grey shapes. From the front, the only thing to distinguish them is the square above the visor, containing the Mercedes star. On Rosberg's helmet it's grey, on Hamilton's yellow.


?? Onboards are no problem? LH has a black glove, NR has a yellow one.



#3645 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:43

Want to try and understand something. Suppose Rosberg went with a full wet setup (whatever that is) in anticipation of a wet quali, now that the quali has been postponed and the likelihood of it being dry is now quite high. Will he be allowed to change his setup to that of dry one. What am trying to say is can this setup be done without breaking parc ferme rules. I mean is it something as easy as adjusting a front wing.

if I had a wet setup and they then postponed quali to a drier time, I will be terribly pissed off if am not allowed to change my setup. Don't think thats fair!!

Edited by BernieEc, 16 March 2013 - 16:43.


#3646 alframsey

alframsey
  • Member

  • 1,417 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:47

Want to try and understand something. Suppose Rosberg went with a full wet setup (whatever that is) in anticipation of a wet quali, now that the quali has been postponed and the likelihood of it being dry is now quite high. Will he be allowed to change his setup to that of dry one. What am trying to say is can this setup be done without breaking parc ferme rules. I mean is it something as easy as adjusting a front wing.

if I had a wet setup and they then postponed quali to a drier time, I will be terribly pissed off if am not allowed to change my setup. Don't think thats fair!!

As far as I am aware it wouldn't be allowed, I seem to remember an interview with Brawn (I think) after qualy where he said they are now in parc ferme so no set up changes would be allowed. I could be wrong though.

#3647 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:48

I wouldn't be so sure, I do think the RBR is the car to beat at this point in time but not so far ahead they are nailed on for P1 & 2.


Gonna just throw this into the hat for the heck of it....

I think one of Merc guys will even give seb a run for his money and if he makes the tiniest of mistakes or lockups, one of the Merc guys might pole it. There I said it.

#3648 Masenco

Masenco
  • Member

  • 819 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:49

Want to try and understand something. Suppose Rosberg went with a full wet setup (whatever that is) in anticipation of a wet quali, now that the quali has been postponed and the likelihood of it being dry is now quite high. Will he be allowed to change his setup to that of dry one. What am trying to say is can this setup be done without breaking parc ferme rules. I mean is it something as easy as adjusting a front wing.

if I had a wet setup and they then postponed quali to a drier time, I will be terribly pissed off if am not allowed to change my setup. Don't think thats fair!!


I think it comes down to the rules regarding how much it needs to rain inorder for the fia to postpone qualifying.
If there is a definite rule for it, then it can be argued that the team took that risk of the qualli possibly being postponed to a drier time.


#3649 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,688 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:50

Want to try and understand something. Suppose Rosberg went with a full wet setup (whatever that is) in anticipation of a wet quali, now that the quali has been postponed and the likelihood of it being dry is now quite high. Will he be allowed to change his setup to that of dry one. What am trying to say is can this setup be done without breaking parc ferme rules. I mean is it something as easy as adjusting a front wing.

if I had a wet setup and they then postponed quali to a drier time, I will be terribly pissed off if am not allowed to change my setup. Don't think thats fair!!


There is no 'full' wet setup anymore because of the parc fermé rules. It was known that qualy was possibly going to be wet, but it was also known that the race will be most possibly dry. If he would have set up the car for wet, it would have compromised his race, IMHO. So there is nothing unfair happening, plus, they will get back the cars 2 hours befor Q2, at 9.00 local, so they will have enough time to adjust setup as wished. A postponed qualy after first session was NOT anticipated though.


#3650 Masenco

Masenco
  • Member

  • 819 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:52

There is no 'full' wet setup anymore because of the parc fermé rules. It was known that qualy was possibly going to be wet, but it was also known that the race will be most possibly dry. If he would have set up the car for wet, it would have compromised his race, IMHO. So there is nothing unfair happening, plus, they will get back the cars 2 hours befor Q2, at 9.00 local, so they will have enough time to adjust setup as wished. A postponed qualy after first session was NOT anticipated though.


I think it was more of a hypothetical question. Like think for instance if it was going to rain heavily for monaco qualifying but was predicted to be a dry race- then a team may risk to setup the car more for rain in the hope that the other cars will not be able to pass in the race...

Edited by Masenco, 16 March 2013 - 16:53.