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Current driver's successes in feeder series


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#1 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 20:25

Inspired by a few posters in the thread about the WDCs in the 2013 field, I decided to gather the info about the best results of the 2013 field in some of the feeder series. The list is far from complete, I only tried to include most of the international series and a few of the more prestigious local ones, as well as two of the Formula 3 stand-alone races. No local Formula Renaults, no Formula Ford, Formula BMW, etc., I hope you enjoy.

FORMULA 3000 AND DERIVATIVES
GP2 Series / International Formula 3000
[1] Nico Rosberg (2005), Lewis Hamilton (2006), Timo Glock (2007), Nico Hulkenberg (2009), Pastor Maldonado (2010), Romain Grosjean (2011)
[2] Mark Webber (2001), Sergio Perez (2010)
[3] Esteban Gutierrez (2011)
[4] Fernando Alonso (2000), Charles Pic (2011), Max Chilton (2012)

GP2 Asia Series
[1] Romain Grosjean (2008, 2011)
[5] Charles Pic (2009-10)
[6] Nico Hulkenberg (2008-09)
[7] Sergio Perez (2008-09)
[11] Esteban Gutierrez (2011)
[15] Pastor Maldonado (2008-09)

GP3 Series
[1] Esteban Gutierrez (2010), Valtteri Bottas (2011)

Italian Formula 3000 / Euro Formula 3000 / Euroseries 3000 / Auto GP
[1] Felipe Massa (2001), Romain Grosjean (2010)
[9] Pastor Maldonado (2005)

FORMULA RENAULT
Formula Renault 3.5 Series / World Series by Nissan / Formula Nissan
[2] Daniel Ricciardo (2010), Jean Eric Vergne (2011)
[3] Pastor Maldonado (2006), Charles Pic (2009)
[5] Sebastian Vettel (2007)
[40] Max Chilton (2009)

Formula Nissan (2.0L engines)
[1] Fernando Alonso (1999)

Eurocup Formula Renault 2.0 / Formula Renault 2000 Eurocup
[1] Felipe Massa (2000), Valtteri Bottas (2008)
[2] Daniel Ricciardo (2008), Jean Eric Vergne (2009)
[3] Charles Pic (2007)
[5] Lewis Hamilton (2002)
[7] Kimi Raikkonen (2000)
[8] Pastor Maldonado (2004)
[12] Romain Grosjean (2005)

FORMULA THREE
Formula 3 Euroseries
[1] Lewis Hamilton (2005), Paul di Resta (2006), Romain Grosjean (2007), Nico Hulkenberg (2008)
[2] Sebastian Vettel (2006)
[3] Valtteri Bottas (2009, 2010)
[4] Nico Rosberg (2004)
[5] Timo Glock (2003)
[9] Esteban Gutierrez (2009)

British Formula 3
[1] Daniel Ricciardo (2009), Jean Eric Vergne (2010)
[3] Jenson Button (1999)
[4] Mark Webber (1997), Sergio Perez (2008), Max Chilton (2009)

German Formula 3
[3] Max Chilton (2002)
[5] Nico Hulkenberg (2006)

Masters of Formula 3
[1] Lewis Hamilton (2005), Paul di Resta (2006), Nico Hulkenberg (2007), Valtteri Bottas (2009, 2010)
[3] Mark Webber (1997)
[4] Jean Eric Vergne (2010)
[5] Jenson Button (1999), Romain Grosjean (2006)
[6] Nico Rosberg (2004), Sebastian Vettel (2006)
[17] Esteban Gutierrez (2009)
[21] Max Chilton (2008)
[30] Timo Glock (2003)

Macau Grand Prix
[2] Jenson Button (1999)
[3] Sebastian Vettel (2005), Valtteri Bottas (2010)
[4] Mark Webber (1997)
[5] Romain Grosjean (2006)
[7] Jean Eric Vergne (2010)
[14] Lewis Hamilton (2004), Max Chilton (2008)
[23] Nico Hulkenberg (2007)

Edited by SpaceHorseParty, 28 December 2012 - 10:36.


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#2 Jimisgod

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:49

So Vettel wasn't champion in any of those but F1?

#3 Sin

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:09

Vettel was champion in the BMW one as far as I can remember

#4 goldenboy

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:35

Interesting read, good to have it altogether like that especially when the gaps get filled in :up:

#5 balage06

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:55

Masters of Formula 3
[1] Lewis Hamilton (2005), Nico Hulkenberg (2007), Valtteri Bottas (2009, 2010)
[3] Mark Webber (1997)
[4] Jean Eric Vergne (2010)
[5] Jenson Button (1999), Romain Grosjean (2006)
[6] Nico Rosberg (2004), Sebastian Vettel (2006)
[17] Esteban Gutierrez (2009)
[21] Max Chilton (2008)
[30] Timo Glock (2003)

Macau Grand Prix
[2] Jenson Button (1999)
[3] Sebastian Vettel (2005), Valtteri Bottas (2010)
[4] Mark Webber (1997)
[5] Romain Grosjean (2006)
[7] Jean Eric Vergne (2010)
[14] Lewis Hamilton (2004), Max Chilton (2008)
[23] Nico Hulkenberg (2007)

#6 mnmracer

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 09:56

So Vettel wasn't champion in any of those but F1?

He was leading the Formula Renault 3.5 championship when he was offered his F1 drive.
What makes Vettel the odd one in this, is that -a bit like Felix da Costa now- he was driving in three series at the same time: Formula 3, Formula Renault 3.5 and Formula One test driver.

#7 mnmracer

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:00

BTW, you group "World Series by Nissan / Formula Nissan" with Formula Renault 3.5, but it should be slotted with Formula Renault 2.0, as it used the same 2 liter engines, while the Formula Renault 3.5 series is a clear step up.

Eurocup Formula Renault 2.0 / Formula Renault 2000 Eurocup / World Series by Nissan / Formula Nissan = ~Formula 3 level
Formula Renault 3.5 = ~Formula 3000 / GP2 level

#8 mnmracer

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:07

I would suggest in the cases like Kimi Räikkönen and Sebastian Vettel, it would be interesting to make some note of it.

For Kimi, what impressed Sauber to give him a chance is that he won 11 out of 18 races in Formula Renault 2000 UK (+winter championship).
For Vettel, what impressed in the first place was his domination in Formula BMW (won 18/20 races) and taking 6 out of 10 podiums and leading Formula Renault 3.5 when he was offered a Formula One seat.

#9 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:21

Masters of Formula 3
[1] Lewis Hamilton (2005), Nico Hulkenberg (2007), Valtteri Bottas (2009, 2010)
[3] Mark Webber (1997)
[4] Jean Eric Vergne (2010)
[5] Jenson Button (1999), Romain Grosjean (2006)
[6] Nico Rosberg (2004), Sebastian Vettel (2006)
[17] Esteban Gutierrez (2009)
[21] Max Chilton (2008)
[30] Timo Glock (2003)

Macau Grand Prix
[2] Jenson Button (1999)
[3] Sebastian Vettel (2005), Valtteri Bottas (2010)
[4] Mark Webber (1997)
[5] Romain Grosjean (2006)
[7] Jean Eric Vergne (2010)
[14] Lewis Hamilton (2004), Max Chilton (2008)
[23] Nico Hulkenberg (2007)


Thank you, fixed.

#10 mjspeed

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:31

FORMULA THREE
Formula 3 Euroseries
[1] Lewis Hamilton (2005), Romain Grosjean (2007), Nico Hulkenberg (2008)
[2] Sebastian Vettel (2006)
[3] Valtteri Bottas (2009, 2010)
[4] Nico Rosberg (2004)
[5] Timo Glock (2003)
[9] Esteban Gutierrez (2009)


Didn't Paul di Resta win the F3 Euroseries in 2006?


#11 ensign14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:32

In terms of actual championships won, the drivers stack up as follows:

Vettel: 3x F1, 1x German FBMW
Webber: n/a (best: 2nd F3000, FFestival winner)
Alonso: 2x F1, 1x FNissan
Massa: 1x Euro F3000, 1x European FRenault, 1x Italian FRenault, 1x Brazilian Formula Chevrolet
Button: 1x F1, 1x British FFord
Perez: 1x British F3 Class B
Raikkonen: 1x F1, 1x UK FRenault, 1x UK FRenault Winter Series
Grosjean: 1x GP2, 2x Asian GP2, 1x Auto GP, 1x European F3, 1x French FRenault, 1x F2000 Renault Speed
Rosberg: 1x GP2, 1x German FBMW
Hamilton: 1x F1, 1x GP2, 1x European F3, 1x UK FRenault
Hulkenberg: 1 x GP2, 1x European F3, 1x A1GP (de facto), 1x German FBMW
Gutierrez: 1x GP3, 1x European FBMW
Di Resta: 1x European F3, 1x German Touring Car
Maldonado: 1x GP2, 1x Italian FRenault, 1x Italian FRenault Winter Series
Bottas: 1x GP3, 1x European FRenault, 1x North European FRenault
Vergne: 1x British F3, 1x Formula Campus Renault
Ricciardo: 1x British F3, 1x West European FRenault
Pic: n/a (best: 3rd FRenault 3.5)
Glock: 1x GP2, 1x German FBMW, 1x German FJunior
Chilton: n/a (best: 2nd T-Cars, 4th GP2)

So, looks like the way to go is German Formula BMW and European F3. Wonder what Christian Vietoris did that has stopped him from reaching F1?

Plus at least all the above have a history of winning. Pedro Diniz didn't win a single race in his entire career. Wonder how he managed to r£ach the biggest $tage?

Edited by ensign14, 28 December 2012 - 13:44.


#12 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:33

BTW, you group "World Series by Nissan / Formula Nissan" with Formula Renault 3.5, but it should be slotted with Formula Renault 2.0, as it used the same 2 liter engines, while the Formula Renault 3.5 series is a clear step up.

Eurocup Formula Renault 2.0 / Formula Renault 2000 Eurocup / World Series by Nissan / Formula Nissan = ~Formula 3 level
Formula Renault 3.5 = ~Formula 3000 / GP2 level

I put Formula Nissan as a different category. I think World Series by Nissan (the 2002—2004 era) should still be slotted with FR3.5, they used 3.0 V6s, a step up from the Formula Nissan times. However, it's not a huge deal because Kovalainen is the only one who raced there back then and can get an F1 contract for 2013.




#13 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 10:37

Didn't Paul di Resta win the F3 Euroseries in 2006?


Forgot to include him, thanks.

#14 HistoryFan

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:31

Interesting thread! :up:

#15 Taxi

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:50

Conclusions:

Vettel, Button and Raikkonen's CV are pathetic and that shows how good they are, paradoxically

Grosjean has the best CV running in super tight formulas, and people still say he can't race. The guy is good no doubt.

Bottas has an inpressive run so far.

Webber never won anything, really.


As for Pedro Paulo Diniz he was a pay driver who managed to get into F1 because of the money of his father. Interestingly he was not that bad having impressed Damon Hill a few times! Edit: by the current sistem he scored 124 points in 99 races. Not bad hã?

Edited by Taxi, 28 December 2012 - 12:18.


#16 ensign14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:58

To be fair to VetButKim, they ran up to F1 so quickly they barely had time to win in feeder series. Compare to e.g. Sospiri, whose career tactic seemed to be to hang around until he was the only one left, win, and then move on.

#17 darkkis

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:28

Conclusions:

Vettel, Button and Raikkonen's CV are pathetic and that shows how good they are, paradoxically

Grosjean has the best CV running in super tight formulas, and people still say he can't race. The guy is good no doubt.

Bottas has an inpressive run so far.

Webber never won anything, really.


As for Pedro Paulo Diniz he was a pay driver who managed to get into F1 because of the money of his father. Interestingly he was not that bad having impressed Damon Hill a few times! Edit: by the current sistem he scored 124 points in 99 races. Not bad hã?

...And Alonso would suck then too, he has pretty much nothing either. :rotfl:

#18 fastwriter

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:42

In terms of actual championships won, the drivers stack up as follows:

Vettel: 3x F1, 1x German FBMW
Webber: n/a (best: 2nd F3000, FFestival winner)
Alonso: 2x F1, 1x FNissan
Massa: 1x Euro F3000, 1x European FRenault, 1x Italian FRenault, 1x Brazilian Formula Chevrolet
Button: 1x F1, 1x British FFord
Perez: 1x British F3 Class B
Raikkonen: 1x F1, 1x UK FRenault, 1x UK FRenault Winter Series
Grosjean: 1x GP2, 2x Asian GP2, 1x Auto GP, 1x European F3, 1x French FRenault, 1x F2000 Renault Speed
Rosberg: 1x GP2, 1x German FBMW
Hamilton: 1x F1, 1x GP2, 1x European F3, 1x UK FRenault
Hulkenberg: 1xGP2, 1x European F3, 1x A1GP (de facto), 1x German FBMW
Gutierrez: 1x GP3, 1x European FBMW
Di Resta: 1x European F3, 1x German Touring Car
Maldonado: 1x GP2, 1x Italian FRenault, 1x Italian FRenault Winter Series
Bottas: 1x GP3, 1x European FRenault, 1x North European FRenault
Vergne: 1x British F3, 1x Formula Campus Renault
Ricciardo: 1x British F3, 1x West European FRenault
Pic: n/a (best: 3rd FRenault 3.5)
Glock: 1x GP2, 1x German FBMW, 1x German FJunior
Chilton: n/a (best: 2nd T-Cars, 4th GP2)

So, looks like the way to go is German Formula BMW and European F3. Wonder what Christian Vietoris did that has stopped him from reaching F1?

Plus at least all the above have a history of winning. Pedro Diniz didn't win a single race in his entire career. Wonder how he managed to r£ach the biggest $tage?


Fixed that for you

#19 ensign14

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:44

Fixed that for you

:up: Ta.

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#20 fastwriter

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 13:51

By the way: Winning in lower formulae doesn't mean that you are an F1-Star automatically.

In the lower ranks, so much depends on a good budget and choosing the right team at the right moment. Or you have the backing like Hamilton had through McL - he was always in the top teams of the respectice series he raced in. People like Timo Glock had a much harder time, getting into the right position for example. Or even Schumacher, who didn't win much beyond F3 until he made it up to F1.

And Vettel had a very impressive career in the feeder series. He always raced at the front, but in F3 in his second year had to cope with three commitments: His role as a F1 Test driver (back then much more time consuming) and Formula Renault 3.5 was not good for his racing in F3 because this needs a very special driving style to be fast. If you constantly race in much different machines and your biggest rival doesn't, then you have a disadvantage.

To sum it up: The guys who excel in F1 simply have the biggest talent for that kind of racing. Totally irrelevant what they achieved before. Doesn't make any driver "the best there ever was" if he won all the feeder series, but then struggles at GP-Level.

#21 Taxi

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:15

...And Alonso would suck then too, he has pretty much nothing either. :rotfl:

At least he drove a proper car before getting to f1, unlike kimi and jenson.




#22 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:17

I would suggest in the cases like Kimi Räikkönen and Sebastian Vettel, it would be interesting to make some note of it.

For Kimi, what impressed Sauber to give him a chance is that he won 11 out of 18 races in Formula Renault 2000 UK (+winter championship).
For Vettel, what impressed in the first place was his domination in Formula BMW (won 18/20 races) and taking 6 out of 10 podiums and leading Formula Renault 3.5 when he was offered a Formula One seat.

I dont think we need to make special notes for your favorite drivers.

This list obviously doesn't mean everything, so dont take offense that your boys aren't up there. The OP specifically states its a limited list. Its just an interesting thing to see for people who maybe dont pay attention to the junior categories that much.

Biggest thing to be mindful of for me is that the competition is different each and every year in any given category. Winning GP2 in 2010 probably isn't the accomplishment it was in 2007, for example.

Edited by Seanspeed, 28 December 2012 - 14:20.


#23 mnmracer

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:26

I dont think we need to make special notes for your favorite drivers.

This list obviously doesn't mean everything, so dont take offense that your boys aren't up there. The OP specifically states its a limited list. Its just an interesting thing to see for people who maybe dont pay attention to the junior categories that much.

Biggest thing to be mindful of for me is that the competition is different each and every year in any given category. Winning GP2 in 2010 probably isn't the accomplishment it was in 2007, for example.

Since when is Räikkönen my favorite driver?
I know it might be a shocker, but not everyone thinks in "my driver this...".

Those two are just the most telling exceptions.

#24 Anderis

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:29

Vettel, Button and Raikkonen's CV are pathetic and that shows how good they are, paradoxically

That's because they have appeared in F1 very early. They didn't have enough time to win more pre-F1 because they were already in F1.

Grosjean has the best CV running in super tight formulas, and people still say he can't race. The guy is good no doubt.

Grosjean's CV looks better because he won many series in his "second" junior career, after being in F1 earlier. His task was way easier due to superior experience. His first, proper junior career wasn't that much impressive. Doesn't mean he is not talented enough, though.

GP2 Asia Series
[6] Nico Hulkenberg (2008-09)
[15] Pastor Maldonado (2008-09)

They were sharing the same car that year. :) (read: none of them made a full season then, so I don't know if it is worth-mentioning :| )

Edited by Anderis, 28 December 2012 - 14:32.


#25 Taxi

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 14:30

Since when is Räikkönen my favorite driver?
I know it might be a shocker, but not everyone thinks in "my driver this...".

Those two are just the most telling exceptions.

Jenson is another good example.




#26 ExFlagMan

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 17:45

At least he drove a proper car before getting to f1, unlike kimi and jenson.

What do you class as a 'proper car'?

#27 tkulla

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 18:41

I wonder how someone like Jenson Button would be viewed had he not won the Williams drive in 2000. Perhaps he would have done a second year of British F3 in one of the top teams, where he would have likely cruised to a title (in reality won by Antonio Pizzonia). He may have even ended up in the F3000 seat of the guy he beat in that shootout, Bruno Junueira, who ended up winning that title. In either case he would have avoided struggling in a very bad Benneton (and with being suddenly young, rich and famous) for two years, which still causes some to underestimate his class.



#28 apoka

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 20:22

That's because they have appeared in F1 very early. They didn't have enough time to win more pre-F1 because they were already in F1.

Exactly. Vettel won Formula BMW in 2004 winning 18/20 races as 16 year old. With 17, he was top rookie in F3 and already became F1 tester (more work than today) and did a couple of things in parallel. Arguably, he may have won titles in 2006 and 2007 if not for his concentration on his F1 career and/or multiple racing series. He is more than a year younger than Grosjean, who spend more time in feeder series. Grosjean is still very impressive, but the comparison to Vettel is very difficult.


#29 george1981

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 00:33

... Pedro Diniz didn't win a single race in his entire career. Wonder how he managed to r£ach the biggest $tage?


I thought Pedro did manage to win one race during his career. I read an interview with him after he'd managed to get his into Sauber in 1999 when the journalist asked him when he'd last won a race, he said it was back in 1989 which would be when he was racing in Brazilian Formula Ford. I can't find any records of the 1989 Brazilian FF season to verify this though.

#30 Dolph

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:08

Grosjean's CV looks better because he won many series in his "second" junior career, after being in F1 earlier.


What the hell does that matter?


His task was way easier due to superior experience.



So seven races in F1 is some magic that changes everything???? He did 7 races!!!


At the same time:

Petrov did more races in GP2 and achieved less
Maldonado did more races in GP2 and achieved less
Glock did Champcars and F1 as well before second time in F1


His first, proper junior career wasn't that much impressive.


Sure, F3 title, GP2 Asia title, 4th in GP2 main series. What a hack

#31 Dolph

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:13

FORMULA 3000 AND DERIVATIVES
GP2 Series / International Formula 3000
[1] Nico Rosberg (2005), Lewis Hamilton (2006), Timo Glock (2007), Nico Hulkenberg (2009), Pastor Maldonado (2010), Romain Grosjean (2011)
[2] Mark Webber (2001), Sergio Perez (2010)
[3] Esteban Gutierrez (2011)
[4] Fernando Alonso (2000), Charles Pic (2011), Max Chilton (2012)


Ahem, Grosjean 4th in 2008 & 2009

#32 SpaceHorseParty

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 08:41

Ahem, Grosjean 4th in 2008 & 2009

I only included the best result for each driver.

#33 Anderis

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 09:50

What the hell does that matter?





So seven races in F1 is some magic that changes everything???? He did 7 races!!!


At the same time:

Petrov did more races in GP2 and achieved less
Maldonado did more races in GP2 and achieved less
Glock did Champcars and F1 as well before second time in F1




Sure, F3 title, GP2 Asia title, 4th in GP2 main series. What a hack

What's your problem?

I didn't write Grosjean has no talent or that his "first" junior career was particularly bad.

But some people think he has the best CV. In my opinion he has not. You compare him with Petrov, Glock, Maldonado. Nobody claims that any of them has the best CV. Better compare Grosjean to Hamilton or Hulkenberg who were winning about as much as Grosjean but they've scored all of their titles with far less experience than Romain had when was achieving some of his most important successes.

That's it. I disagreed that he has the most impressive CV. Didn't want to discredit him as a driver.

Edited by Anderis, 29 December 2012 - 09:51.


#34 Dolph

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:46

What's your problem?

I didn't write Grosjean has no talent or that his "first" junior career was particularly bad.

But some people think he has the best CV. In my opinion he has not. You compare him with Petrov, Glock, Maldonado. Nobody claims that any of them has the best CV. Better compare Grosjean to Hamilton or Hulkenberg who were winning about as much as Grosjean but they've scored all of their titles with far less experience than Romain had when was achieving some of his most important successes.

That's it. I disagreed that he has the most impressive CV. Didn't want to discredit him as a driver.


Sorry, I see a lot of people here seem to enjoy discrediting him. Dunno why.

#35 charly0418

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 17:41

Jules Bianchi also has a pretty decent record, amazing how he doesn't have an F1 seat with all he has done

#36 Seanspeed

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 18:00

Since when is Räikkönen my favorite driver?
I know it might be a shocker, but not everyone thinks in "my driver this...".

Never said Raikkonen was your favorite driver. But Vettel is and I know Vettel fans are typically Raikkonen fans and vice versa.

As far as Bianchi goes, his record looks good on-paper, but I think his disappointing GP2 campaign really put a halt to his reputation and gave his F1 chances some doubt.

Edited by Seanspeed, 29 December 2012 - 18:01.


#37 scheivlak

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 19:41

Jules Bianchi also has a pretty decent record, amazing how he doesn't have an F1 seat with all he has done

His last two seasons (GP2 and WSR) were rather erratic...

#38 ExFlagMan

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:16

The main problem at the moment is that with the proliferation of sub-F1 one-make series it becomes very difficult to judge who is good, as opposed to just a reasonable fish in a small pond. It also leads to a sort of 'avoidance syndrome' - choosing the series that has the lowest potential rival count.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 30 December 2012 - 12:20.


#39 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 13:24

Jules Bianchi also has a pretty decent record, amazing how he doesn't have an F1 seat with all he has done

Because Ferrari has not decided to bring him to F1 and place him at Sauber or another midfield team .... yet ...

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#40 kosmic33

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 14:00

The main problem at the moment is that with the proliferation of sub-F1 one-make series it becomes very difficult to judge who is good, as opposed to just a reasonable fish in a small pond. It also leads to a sort of 'avoidance syndrome' - choosing the series that has the lowest potential rival count.

Karting is probably the last place where you can still get a valid comparison between drivers before F1.
Its not by chance that almost all of 2012's top F1 drivers had successful European Karting careers:
Vettel - European Junior Champion
Weber - NSW champion (not many aussies make it to europe that early)
Alonso - European Junior Champ (stayed loyal to IAME & Mike Wilson so didnt have the best equipment in Formula Super A)
Massa - No idea but he still organises his annual kart event so he must have had some success
Hamilton - European Junior Champ, European Formula A champ but little success in FSA as they were trying to develop the sub-standard Parolin chassis
Button - European Formula Super A champion
Raikkonen - 2nd in European FSA championship (would have achieved more but for his loyalty to PDB Racing)
Grosjean - Dont remember him racing karts (might explain his difficulty with wheel to wheel situations)
Schumacher - 2nd in european jnr champs, 2nd in final round of 2001 world champs (rosberg 3rd, hamilton 4th!)
Rosberg - 2nd in european FA (to hamilton)
Paul Di Resta - 2nd or 3rd in european jnrs the year vettel won iirc but handicapped by being 10kgs over weight
Hulkenberg - 2nd Euro Cadet Champs
Note: This is all written from memory!

Also: Jarno Trulli & Heikki Kovalainen (Bianchi & Liuzzi too) were the 2 stand out karters of their generations.
Read into that what you want! LOL

Edited by kosmic33, 31 December 2012 - 18:20.


#41 AJFIN

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 15:09

Max Chilton doing German F3 when he was 11 years old must be the most impressive achievement...

#42 Jimisgod

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 17:58

Schumacher - 2nd in european jnr champs, 2nd in final round of 2000 world champs (rosberg 3rd, hamilton 4th!)


What the hell was a double WDC doing driving against 15 year olds. :lol: Seems like Usain Bolt running against high school kids.

#43 AJFIN

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:23

What the hell was a double WDC doing driving against 15 year olds. :lol: Seems like Usain Bolt running against high school kids.

Actually, it was in 2001 - he was a 4x WDC at that point. The race was held at his home track in Kerpen, so there's that. And also, those karting guys had a huge advantage over him - less weight, and they had been driving karts couple of days a week for the past year. MSC just jumped into the kart after the F1 season.

#44 kosmic33

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:28

What the hell was a double WDC doing driving against 15 year olds. :lol: Seems like Usain Bolt running against high school kids.

Just realised it was 2001 not 2000

A bit of an ill informed post really
Formula Super A was the professionals category so there were plenty of older drivers like Davide Fore, Alessandro Manetti, Sauro Cesetti, Tonio Liuzzi and Gianluca Beggio competing.
Its no different to Raikkonen competing in the World rally championship or Schumi doing a round of the WTCC.
Well except for the fact that the level of talent in the FIA World Karting Championships would be higher and there's a lot more paid drivers :p

#45 kosmic33

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:35

Actually, it was in 2001 - he was a 4x WDC at that point. The race was held at his home track in Kerpen, so there's that. And also, those karting guys had a huge advantage over him - less weight, and they had been driving karts couple of days a week for the past year. MSC just jumped into the kart after the F1 season.

He always used karting to keep sharp, and he lost weight so he would make the minimum weight.
And he did a lot of testing.
And he was driving for the Ferrari (well 2001 type) of karting - Tony Kart

It was an impressive performance - I was there, where he was hindered & helped in fairly equal measure by the fact that it poured with rain for 2 days & Frank Perera (I think) who actually finished 2nd was excluded for hitting off Marco Asmer (I think) who was 2nd at the time

#46 Dolph

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 00:20

Button - European Formula Super A champion


I remember watching him race at the front in karting on Eurosport. I thought "Button" what a funny name. And here he is at McLaren, and a WDC no less.

#47 Dolph

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 00:22

Max Chilton doing German F3 when he was 11 years old must be the most impressive achievement...


Wonder how he reached the pedals.

#48 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:01

Webber never won anything, really.


Yet he's been in F1 for a decade, and is still in some sort of demand apparently. And he's never brought money to a team aside from a relative pittance from Yellow Pages as a rookie.

Like Kobayashi, it goes to show that winning something in junior formulae isnt the be all and end all.

#49 kosmic33

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:51

Like Kobayashi, it goes to show that winning something in junior formulae isnt the be all and end all.

Doesnt winning the Formula Renault Euro Cup count?


#50 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:16

Does Webber's win at the 1996 FF Festival count?

Koba was nowhere after a great 2005.