62 replies to this topic

[Kingshark]

Does Webber's win at the 1996 FF Festival count?

Koba was nowhere after a great 2005.

GP2 Asia 2009 anyone?

[kosmic33]

GP2 Asia 2009 anyone?

Probably not!

[aditya-now]

Great work, SpaceHorseParty!

It is interesting to see how Hamilton and Hülkenberg went straight up from being F3 champions to becoming F3000 champions the next year! Says something about their racy-ness.... Better still, Hamilton nearly went on to become F1 WDC in the very next year, only for McLaren to mess up his chances by not letting him change the tyres ("We are racing Alonso!")

Also Grosjean did the same thing, albeit over a period of 5 years - a much slower career trajectory.

Concerning Vettel, who become only champion in 2006 - here we see a driver who was a protégé throughout his early career already. Not that there is something inherently wrong with it - on the contrary, you have to certainly qualify to be protégéd thus strongly. It only makes obvious that he did not have to fight his ways through the ranks in the same way like others had to - there was always a benign influence on his career. Even Hamilton had to fight his way up, supported by McLaren or not.

This tendency on Vettel's career continues, he must have some very good karma or a lucky star.

[gillesthegenius]

Great work, SpaceHorseParty!

It is interesting to see how Hamilton and Hülkenberg went straight up from being F3 champions to becoming F3000 champions the next year! Says something about their racy-ness.... Better still, Hamilton nearly went on to become F1 WDC in the very next year, only for McLaren to mess up his chances by not letting him change the tyres ("We are racing Alonso!")

Also Grosjean did the same thing, albeit over a period of 5 years - a much slower career trajectory.

Concerning Vettel, who become only champion in 2006 - here we see a driver who was a protégé throughout his early career already. Not that there is something inherently wrong with it - on the contrary, you have to certainly qualify to be protégéd thus strongly. It only makes obvious that he did not have to fight his ways through the ranks in the same way like others had to - there was always a benign influence on his career. Even Hamilton had to fight his way up, supported by McLaren or not.

This tendency on Vettel's career continues, he must have some very good karma or a lucky star.

Maybe - and just maybe - RBR thought that Seb was too good to be wasted in the lower series, and thus the hurry to get him up the ranks. Whatever it may have been , Seb certainly doesnt seem to have disappointed them. (MA)

[kosmic33]

Concerning Vettel, who become only champion in 2006 - here we see a driver who was a protégé throughout his early career already. Not that there is something inherently wrong with it - on the contrary, you have to certainly qualify to be protégéd thus strongly. It only makes obvious that he did not have to fight his ways through the ranks in the same way like others had to - there was always a benign influence on his career. Even Hamilton had to fight his way up, supported by McLaren or not.

[mnmracer]

Ignoring that if Vettel had not been promoted to Formula One, he would have won the 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 championship...
So Schumacher, Senna and Prost did not have to fight their way through the ranks? Nor Alonso, as he was promoted after finishing only 4th in F3000?

And if Vettel had not performed in the lower formula, you think he would have still been promoted to F1, like the other 40+ drivers from the Red Bull programme that have never come close to Formula One?

Edited by mnmracer, 02 January 2013 - 13:35.

[Brandz07]

Max Chilton doing German F3 when he was 11 years old must be the most impressive achievement...

Have you got a source for this? Struggling to believe it and can't find anything about it myself.

*EDIT*

I've just seen the post you're referring too

Edited by Brandz07, 02 January 2013 - 18:42.

[apoka]

Concerning Vettel, who become only champion in 2006

He became Formula BMW champion in 2004 aged 16/17.

[Burtros]

Conclusions:

Vettel, Button and Raikkonen's CV are pathetic and that shows how good they are, paradoxically

Grosjean has the best CV running in super tight formulas, and people still say he can't race. The guy is good no doubt.

Bottas has an inpressive run so far.

Webber never won anything, really.


As for Pedro Paulo Diniz he was a pay driver who managed to get into F1 because of the money of his father. Interestingly he was not that bad having impressed Damon Hill a few times! Edit: by the current sistem he scored 124 points in 99 races. Not bad hã?

Its not correct or fair to call their CVs 'Pathetic', in particular for Kimi and Jenson - they didnt win in lower formulas not because they werent up to it, it was because they never competed in them. They went stright to F1 at a young age and with little experience and so skipped a lot of series.

[aditya-now]

He became Formula BMW champion in 2004 aged 16/17.

Yes, as I said, he was a protégé of BMW from the beginning of his career, like Lewis was with McLaren. Indeed, Seb was protégéd by BMW and Red Bull, hence the switch of Vettel to Toro Rosso. And yes, he did not disappoint his sponsors in the least!

[aditya-now]

Ignoring that if Vettel had not been promoted to Formula One, he would have won the 2007 Formula Renault 3.5 championship...
So Schumacher, Senna and Prost did not have to fight their way through the ranks? Nor Alonso, as he was promoted after finishing only 4th in F3000?

And if Vettel had not performed in the lower formula, you think he would have still been promoted to F1, like the other 40+ drivers from the Red Bull programme that have never come close to Formula One?

I did not say that - au contraire, Seb very well earn the support he got and he did probably more than his early supporters would ever have dreamt of. The point I was making is that there always seems to have been a lucky star shining on Seb's career - and it continues to shine brightly.

[Seanspeed]

I did not say that - au contraire, Seb very well earn the support he got and he did probably more than his early supporters would ever have dreamt of. The point I was making is that there always seems to have been a lucky star shining on Seb's career - and it continues to shine brightly.

No more lucky than Lewis. Red Bull might have fast-tracked Seb a bit faster, but not much faster and he still shined everywhere he went in his junior career.

[Viryfan]

Karting is probably the last place where you can still get a valid comparison between drivers before F1.
Its not by chance that almost all of 2012's top F1 drivers had successful European Karting careers:
Vettel - European Junior Champion
Weber - NSW champion (not many aussies make it to europe that early)
Alonso - European Junior Champ (stayed loyal to IAME & Mike Wilson so didnt have the best equipment in Formula Super A)
Massa - No idea but he still organises his annual kart event so he must have had some success
Hamilton - European Junior Champ, European Formula A champ but little success in FSA as they were trying to develop the sub-standard Parolin chassis
Button - European Formula Super A champion
Raikkonen - 2nd in European FSA championship (would have achieved more but for his loyalty to PDB Racing)
Grosjean - Dont remember him racing karts (might explain his difficulty with wheel to wheel situations)
Schumacher - 2nd in european jnr champs, 2nd in final round of 2001 world champs (rosberg 3rd, hamilton 4th!)
Rosberg - 2nd in european FA (to hamilton)
Paul Di Resta - 2nd or 3rd in european jnrs the year vettel won iirc but handicapped by being 10kgs over weight
Hulkenberg - 2nd Euro Cadet Champs
Note: This is all written from memory!

Also: Jarno Trulli & Heikki Kovalainen (Bianchi & Liuzzi too) were the 2 stand out karters of their generations.
Read into that what you want! LOL

Pic is a trofeo Margutti winner.Also 3rd in ICA Kart european championship.