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A little help to ID some old motorsport photos


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#1 geoffd

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 17:41

Posted on behalf of andacami from the WSCC forum

Hi All - Seasons Greetings

I have been given access to some 50-odd 5x4 Glass Negatives and I need a little help in identifying what, where and when. Initially I think Silverstone, late fifties to early sixties...?

My next step is do full hi-res scans and get them burnt to CD and sent off to the curator of whichever track / manufacturer / club that we can identify and ultimately hand them over to their archives for safe and proper keeping.

Here is a small selection of low-res scans for IDing...

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Here's the link to the post on the WSCC forum Post on WSCC forum


Geoff


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#2 Alan Cox

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 17:54

No 2 appears to be David Brown in what looks like the Le Mans-winning DBR1/2 at Silverstone for some demonstration run. The body has had the fairings removed from the wheel arches since the 24-hour race, if it is, indeed the winning chassis.

#3 Vitesse2

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:10

No 7 is the start of the 1960 International Trophy. Moss closest to the camera, then Bonnier, Gurney and part of Hill (P).

http://www.silhouet....0/1960.html#brd

#4 Alan Cox

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:14

Pic 8 is from the 11th May 1963, International Trophy meeting. Jack Sears/Galaxie no 45, Graham Hill/Mk2 3.8 no 40, Mike Salmon Mk2/3.8 no 42, Peter Dodd Mk2/3.8 no 43, Mike Pendleton Mk2/3.8 no 44, Sir John Whitmore Cooper S no 16, Paddy Hopkirk Cooper S - inside of row 3, possibly Jimmy Blumer Cortina GT no 33?, Peter Harper Sunbeam Rapier no 36, Frank Gardner? Cortina GT

pic 5 is, I think, from the same race - Harry Ratcliffe in the Team Red Rose MG 1100, possibly followed by one of the RAFMSA Cooper Ss

Pic 7 is the 1960 international Trophy. S Moss on pole Cooper no 20, Jo Bonnier BRM no 3, Dan Gurney BRM no 4, Phil Hill Ferrari no 25, Jack Brabham Cooper no 1, John Surtees Lotus no 12, Cliff Allison Ferrari no 24, Graham Hill BRM no 4

Edited by Alan Cox, 31 December 2012 - 11:01.


#5 bradbury west

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:18

Memory -testing time, chaps.
No 9; Possibly Dave? Sayer(s) in the Aberties spl, for autocross or Parkin's Lotus Cannonball. I would need to trawl through period mags for accuracy.
No 4 looks as if it might be the ex Doug Graham Lotus 15, as he raced 100MDG, but not sure of the year. Is that the car later owned by Robert Brooks proinent at an early Revival with him driving, with loose rear bodywork? A nice shot for Bill Colson's archives too.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 07 January 2013 - 20:32.


#6 Vitesse2

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:44

No 10: at a guess, the Whit Monday meeting, June 3rd 1963. While the background is substantially the same as No 8, there are fewer advertising hoardings.

#7 arttidesco

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:48

Top pics thanks for sharing.

All I can add is that EUR 67 was first registered in April 1939 as a 997 cc Ford and that it's next tax disc is due in June 2013 :wave:

#8 bradbury west

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 21:47

6

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Geoff

Probably from 1962 onwards as the ex works 1961 le Mans Sprite 1411 is mid-grid. It is interesting to see a couple of Spitfires, and the Speedwell GT on the pitwall, whilst ex works AH3000 XJB876 looks well onto its way modsports spec. so may date the race
RL

#9 bradbury west

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 22:02

No 10: at a guess, the Whit Monday meeting, June 3rd 1963. While the background is substantially the same as No 8, there are fewer advertising hoardings.


I would welcome any more detailed clarification on this shot from anyone, as I suspect I have an interest in the car nearest to the score tower, but I have no record of this.
Roger Lund

#10 Bloggsworth

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 22:37

In photo 10 car No19 looks like one of Don Sims' Yimkins. I drove Richard Groombridge's one on ice at Brands hatch one freezing cold February day. I'm racking my inadequate brain trying to remember if the Elite 8188 MP is one I worked on at Delemare Road, and if so, whose was it - The number rings a muffled bell.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 30 December 2012 - 22:41.


#11 luca

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:09

Programme for Pic 8 and 5.
http://www.mountgree...May_11_1963.jpg

Edited by luca, 31 December 2012 - 12:07.


#12 bradbury west

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:40

In photo 10 car No19 looks like one of Don Sims' Yimkins. I drove Richard Groombridge's one on ice at Brands hatch one freezing cold February day. I'm racking my inadequate brain trying to remember if the Elite 8188 MP is one I worked on at Delemare Road, and if so, whose was it - The number rings a muffled bell.

Jon, I suspect that the Yimkin might well be a Terrier, I thought driven by Tony Belcher, but the hat is wrong IIRC, and Tony Youlten had another marque for 1963. The Elite no has me beaten as not a regular no. to me, so possibly Adrian Chambers or Norman Surtees, - a lot of straw clutching here......... and not much progress.

Distant recall suggests that we have seen a shot of the ali-bodied pre war Ford Spl before, possibly in old archives via e bay.
Roger Lund
BTW, Don Sim was on very fine form a few months back when I had some long conversations with him. A marvellous chap in the Len Terry mould, razor sharp and tells it as it is/was.

#13 john winfield

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:02

Posted on behalf of andacami from the WSCC forum


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Geoff


Roger Lund has already suggested '1962 onwards' for this one. I can't identify the race but was wondering about the pit wall. Is this the version built after Christabel Carlisle's accident, or was there an earlier, shorter raised/protective element near the start line prior to that?
If the former, then presumably this photo must date from late 1963 at the earliest, although I can't remember exactly when CC spun into the open pit lane, nor when Silverstone carried out the subsequent modifications. Does anyone know?


#14 pete53

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:17

Roger Lund has already suggested '1962 onwards' for this one. I can't identify the race but was wondering about the pit wall. Is this the version built after Christabel Carlisle's accident, or was there an earlier, shorter raised/protective element near the start line prior to that?
If the former, then presumably this photo must date from late 1963 at the earliest, although I can't remember exactly when CC spun into the open pit lane, nor when Silverstone carried out the subsequent modifications. Does anyone know?

The Carlisle accident was at the British GP meet in July 1963.

I would guess this picture was taken either 1964 or 1965. It certainly looks to be a marque sports car race. I was wondering when the Healey 3000 became recognized as a Marque car - that could narrow down the possibilities.

#15 john winfield

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:25

The Carlisle accident was at the British GP meet in July 1963.


Thanks Pete. I had read that somewhere, but then saw on Frank's website that she finished tenth in the saloon event, with no mention of her Mini being involved in an accident. Did she have a second drive that day? Sports cars perhaps? Or did she spin her Mini on the last lap of the saloon race, crossing the line in the process?
Sorry for taking this OT Geoff.



#16 Bloggsworth

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:26

Jon, I suspect that the Yimkin might well be a Terrier, I thought driven by Tony Belcher, but the hat is wrong IIRC, and Tony Youlten had another marque for 1963. The Elite no has me beaten as not a regular no. to me, so possibly Adrian Chambers or Norman Surtees, - a lot of straw clutching here......... and not much progress.

Distant recall suggests that we have seen a shot of the ali-bodied pre war Ford Spl before, possibly in old archives via e bay.
Roger Lund
BTW, Don Sim was on very fine form a few months back when I had some long conversations with him. A marvellous chap in the Len Terry mould, razor sharp and tells it as it is/was.


I thought Terrier as a second thought, but I think the rear wheel arches are wrong, though it may well be a Terrier a bit further back on the grid - Mind you, it was 1965 when I drove it; Dunlop R5s didn't work very well on ice!

IIRC, Adrian Chambers Elite was black and had the Bob Curl style radiator inlet.

Don Sim and I had a disagreement over how to cure the terminal understeer in fast corners,on the Valkyrie's first outing at Snetterton, when it was driven by Mike Walton "What do you know, you're only 19..." I had suggested that the problem was aerodynamic, and that letting the hot air from the radiator out of the top and putting a bib under the front might cure the problem.

Edited by Bloggsworth, 31 December 2012 - 12:31.


#17 Bloggsworth

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:33

Would that be John Gott in the AH3000?

#18 Bloggsworth

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:40

The Yimkin had unusual front suspension, the bottom of the spring-damper unit was on the lower wishbone adjacent to the lower trunnion in the usual fashion, but the top mount was towards the inboard end of the upper wishbone and therefore rose with the movement of the suspension which presumably led to a progressive lowering of the spring-rate on bump.

#19 Jean L

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 13:36

#6

With this background (TV Tower, advertisements), it is close to May 1966.

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#20 Bloggsworth

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 14:13

The F1 photo is 1960 as the cars are 2.5 litre, unless it's a 1961 Intercontinental Formula race - the clubmans is well pre '66 as there is not a Mallock in sight!

#21 CoulthardD

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 14:55

The results for photo 8 can be found HERE.

DC

#22 pete53

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 15:15

Thanks Pete. I had read that somewhere, but then saw on Frank's website that she finished tenth in the saloon event, with no mention of her Mini being involved in an accident. Did she have a second drive that day? Sports cars perhaps? Or did she spin her Mini on the last lap of the saloon race, crossing the line in the process?
Sorry for taking this OT Geoff.

Yes, she drove in what I think was the last race of the day - Sports/GT cars - and she was in an Austin Healey Sprite.

#23 Bloggsworth

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:25

I'm still trying to process the puzzle that is motor-racing photos taken on a view camera that used 5 x 4 glass plates - I can just picture a man beside the start line with a black cloth draped over his head trying to focus on a rapidly departing John Whitmore; either that or looking through the wire frame of a Thornton-Pickard press camera...

#24 Vitesse2

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:44

I'm still trying to process the puzzle that is motor-racing photos taken on a view camera that used 5 x 4 glass plates - I can just picture a man beside the start line with a black cloth draped over his head ...

There's a Brockbank cartoon of just that. Honest, guv! :wave:

#25 Paul Parker

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 19:02

Probably from 1962 onwards as the ex works 1961 le Mans Sprite 1411 is mid-grid. It is interesting to see a couple of Spitfires, and the Speedwell GT on the pitwall, whilst ex works AH3000 XJB876 looks well onto its way modsports spec. so may date the race
RL


Without any 1960s Autosport/Muttering Screws to hand I'm relying on memory but I think this Silverstone pic dates from circa 1966/67 given the flared rear arches, the width of the tyres, what seem like widened and welded steel rims and perhaps it is the car raced by Stewart Hands in period.

#26 Stephen W

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:00

In photo 10 car No19 looks like one of Don Sims' Yimkins. I drove Richard Groombridge's one on ice at Brands hatch one freezing cold February day. I'm racking my inadequate brain trying to remember if the Elite 8188 MP is one I worked on at Delemare Road, and if so, whose was it - The number rings a muffled bell.



Jon, I suspect that the Yimkin might well be a Terrier, I thought driven by Tony Belcher, but the hat is wrong IIRC, and Tony Youlten had another marque for 1963.


Definately Terrier.

#27 Odseybod

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 17:39

There's a Brockbank cartoon of just that. Honest, guv! :wave:


From memory, the caption ran something like "He says the last motor race he covered was the 1903 Paris-Vienna."

Edited by Odseybod, 02 January 2013 - 17:40.


#28 Odseybod

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:51

While we have the Silverstone brains sharpened, I hope original poster Geoffd won't mind if I cheekily slip in a couple from my late father's treasure trove. I thought at first his grid shot was from the same race as Geoff's #10, but it clearly isn't. Maybe a 750 MC gathering? The paddock shot is from the same meeting - wish we had such varied support vehicles now, including an Austin A40 Sports with glamorous attendant. The date is 1958, if the note on the envelope of prints is to be trusted (not guaranteed!).

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Over to you.

#29 geoffd

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:42

Thank you all for your contributions. It's great to get the history behind the pictures.

Odseybod - I'm delighted to see your photos in this thread. They are all part of the history of our sport.

Geoff


#30 geoffd

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:46

Andy has scanned some more photos for your entertainment and identification ...

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Here's the link to Andy's gallery on the WSCC site gallery

Geoff


#31 Sharman

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:44

The results for photo 8 can be found HERE.

DC

Looking through those results I see there were two entries from the RAF MotorSport Association. The first for McKenzie, the second for J. C. Brown. I wonder if this was the same Flt Lt John Brown who featured in the thread on the Veritas BMW at Oulton Park

#32 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:45

Would this be July 6th 1963 with Frank Gardner on pole? I just have a problem with 7th on the grid (outside 2nd row) ?


Andy has scanned some more photos for your entertainment and identification ...


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#33 garyfrogeye

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 00:14

I can't name the driver of the Sprite in image 21 but it's a Mk1 Sprite with what looks to be a Peamarsh bonnet.

#34 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:01

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Innes Ireland, Lotus 18, winning BRDC International Trophy, 14 May 1960 - Silverstone



#35 David McKinney

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:06

Would this be July 6th 1963 with Frank Gardner on pole? I just have a problem with 7th on the grid (outside 2nd row) ?

I think you're right, Andrew
Fellow Aussie John Ampt (Alexis) alongside, then John Mastin (JRRDS Lotus 22) and John Dunn (Brabham BT6)
The 7th car should be Melvyn Long in a JRRDS Lotus 27


#36 Nick Savage

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:20

I think photo 19 shows the pre-WW1 Mercedes newly restored by the Halkyards, being used as a course car at a VSCC Silverstone meeting ....
Nick

#37 john winfield

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:46

Andy has scanned some more photos for your entertainment and identification ...


24

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Geoff


Is this Alan Eccles in one of his Cooper-Chevvies?

#38 Ted Walker

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:59

No 18 is John Chatham in his 100/4 healey.

#39 Jean L

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:07

#13 is the start of the International Trophy 11/5/63.

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#40 Roger Clark

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:44

In picture 15, it's interesting to see the fins on the nose cone of Gardner's Brabham.

#41 bradbury west

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:12

No 22 possibly Tom Leake in the Zagato, (or Salmon in Leake's? car), not checked, and certainly Jack Lambert in the grey works prepped E type , like the Robin/Clarke Sturdgess car 2BBC and the one raced by JYS. Modified nose of the SP250 should help to identify it.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 07 January 2013 - 13:30.


#42 Stephen W

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:37

#25 = a VSCC Prescott Hillclimb meeting

:wave:

#43 pete53

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:58

I think you're right, Andrew
Fellow Aussie John Ampt (Alexis) alongside, then John Mastin (JRRDS Lotus 22) and John Dunn (Brabham BT6)
The 7th car should be Melvyn Long in a JRRDS Lotus 27

David, I have just been looking at the programme and results and Melvyn Long doesn't appear - the JRRDS entries were J.Mastin, Mike de Udy and M.Gould.

Sadly I believe Dunn was fatally injured during this race.

#44 john winfield

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:22

David, I have just been looking at the programme and results and Melvyn Long doesn't appear - the JRRDS entries were J.Mastin, Mike de Udy and M.Gould.

Sadly I believe Dunn was fatally injured during this race.


Stefan Ornerdal's site suggests that the #19 JRRDS car on the second row is that of Mike de Udy, although I can't find any other shots of Mike wearing a dark helmet.

Edited by john winfield, 07 January 2013 - 13:26.


#45 David McKinney

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:09

My info comes from the F1R black book, which doesn't list Long as an entry, but has him as the seventh man on the grid. It would appear he took over De Udy's No.19 entry

And, yes, this was Dunn's last race

#46 bradbury west

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:47

I'm still trying to process the puzzle that is motor-racing photos taken on a view camera that used 5 x 4 glass plates - I can just picture a man beside the start line with a black cloth draped over his head trying to focus on a rapidly departing John Whitmore; either that or looking through the wire frame of a Thornton-Pickard press camera...


Tell your driver chaps I am ready when they are, Mr Starter............
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copyright Wolf Suschitsky, which I found on a brilliant photo website
Click on image for larger view
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 09 January 2013 - 22:48.


#47 geoffd

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:40

Andy has added more photos and these can be found and commented on at his website which is http://www.wsccnl.co.uk/photos2.php

Geoff

#48 bradbury west

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:00

Many thanks. A rescan in a higher res might help with some details on certain cars. Some are straightforward enough, JC in the Lotus, Pat Lindsay, I suspect, in the Napier Railton, Ireland guesting in the 156, a well known angle/shot from that race, understeering, with an inside wheel lifting in others' shots ISTR. etc.
Is this a Ferrari 500/625 in which case is it D Sievewright, the only name I can recall in that period with one?.
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Roger Lund

#49 john winfield

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:36

Many thanks. A rescan in a higher res might help with some details on certain cars. Some are straightforward enough, JC in the Lotus, Pat Lindsay, I suspect, in the Napier Railton, Ireland guesting in the 156, a well known angle/shot from that race, understeering, with an inside wheel lifting in others' shots ISTR. etc.
Is this a Ferrari 500/625 in which case is it D Sievewright, the only name I can recall in that period with one?.
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Roger Lund


Would that be Ian Sievwright, Roger? I remember him driving a Ferrari at one of my very first Silverstone meetings in 1964 or 1965.


#50 Sharman

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 21:18

Would that be Ian Sievwright, Roger? I remember him driving a Ferrari at one of my very first Silverstone meetings in 1964 or 1965.

Ian I think, didn't he go on to do the TR8 Le Mans car?