A little help to ID some old motorsport photos
#1
Posted 30 December 2012 - 17:41
Hi All - Seasons Greetings
I have been given access to some 50-odd 5x4 Glass Negatives and I need a little help in identifying what, where and when. Initially I think Silverstone, late fifties to early sixties...?
My next step is do full hi-res scans and get them burnt to CD and sent off to the curator of whichever track / manufacturer / club that we can identify and ultimately hand them over to their archives for safe and proper keeping.
Here is a small selection of low-res scans for IDing...
1
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5
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7
8
9
10
Here's the link to the post on the WSCC forum Post on WSCC forum
Geoff
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#2
Posted 30 December 2012 - 17:54
#3
Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:10
http://www.silhouet....0/1960.html#brd
#4
Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:14
pic 5 is, I think, from the same race - Harry Ratcliffe in the Team Red Rose MG 1100, possibly followed by one of the RAFMSA Cooper Ss
Pic 7 is the 1960 international Trophy. S Moss on pole Cooper no 20, Jo Bonnier BRM no 3, Dan Gurney BRM no 4, Phil Hill Ferrari no 25, Jack Brabham Cooper no 1, John Surtees Lotus no 12, Cliff Allison Ferrari no 24, Graham Hill BRM no 4
Edited by Alan Cox, 31 December 2012 - 11:01.
#5
Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:18
No 9; Possibly Dave? Sayer(s) in the Aberties spl, for autocross or Parkin's Lotus Cannonball. I would need to trawl through period mags for accuracy.
No 4 looks as if it might be the ex Doug Graham Lotus 15, as he raced 100MDG, but not sure of the year. Is that the car later owned by Robert Brooks proinent at an early Revival with him driving, with loose rear bodywork? A nice shot for Bill Colson's archives too.
Roger Lund
Edited by bradbury west, 07 January 2013 - 20:32.
#6
Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:44
#7
Posted 30 December 2012 - 18:48
All I can add is that EUR 67 was first registered in April 1939 as a 997 cc Ford and that it's next tax disc is due in June 2013
#8
Posted 30 December 2012 - 21:47
Probably from 1962 onwards as the ex works 1961 le Mans Sprite 1411 is mid-grid. It is interesting to see a couple of Spitfires, and the Speedwell GT on the pitwall, whilst ex works AH3000 XJB876 looks well onto its way modsports spec. so may date the race6
Geoff
RL
#9
Posted 30 December 2012 - 22:02
No 10: at a guess, the Whit Monday meeting, June 3rd 1963. While the background is substantially the same as No 8, there are fewer advertising hoardings.
I would welcome any more detailed clarification on this shot from anyone, as I suspect I have an interest in the car nearest to the score tower, but I have no record of this.
Roger Lund
#10
Posted 30 December 2012 - 22:37
Edited by Bloggsworth, 30 December 2012 - 22:41.
#11
Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:09
http://www.mountgree...May_11_1963.jpg
Edited by luca, 31 December 2012 - 12:07.
#12
Posted 31 December 2012 - 09:40
Jon, I suspect that the Yimkin might well be a Terrier, I thought driven by Tony Belcher, but the hat is wrong IIRC, and Tony Youlten had another marque for 1963. The Elite no has me beaten as not a regular no. to me, so possibly Adrian Chambers or Norman Surtees, - a lot of straw clutching here......... and not much progress.In photo 10 car No19 looks like one of Don Sims' Yimkins. I drove Richard Groombridge's one on ice at Brands hatch one freezing cold February day. I'm racking my inadequate brain trying to remember if the Elite 8188 MP is one I worked on at Delemare Road, and if so, whose was it - The number rings a muffled bell.
Distant recall suggests that we have seen a shot of the ali-bodied pre war Ford Spl before, possibly in old archives via e bay.
Roger Lund
BTW, Don Sim was on very fine form a few months back when I had some long conversations with him. A marvellous chap in the Len Terry mould, razor sharp and tells it as it is/was.
#13
Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:02
Posted on behalf of andacami from the WSCC forum
6
Geoff
Roger Lund has already suggested '1962 onwards' for this one. I can't identify the race but was wondering about the pit wall. Is this the version built after Christabel Carlisle's accident, or was there an earlier, shorter raised/protective element near the start line prior to that?
If the former, then presumably this photo must date from late 1963 at the earliest, although I can't remember exactly when CC spun into the open pit lane, nor when Silverstone carried out the subsequent modifications. Does anyone know?
#14
Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:17
The Carlisle accident was at the British GP meet in July 1963.Roger Lund has already suggested '1962 onwards' for this one. I can't identify the race but was wondering about the pit wall. Is this the version built after Christabel Carlisle's accident, or was there an earlier, shorter raised/protective element near the start line prior to that?
If the former, then presumably this photo must date from late 1963 at the earliest, although I can't remember exactly when CC spun into the open pit lane, nor when Silverstone carried out the subsequent modifications. Does anyone know?
I would guess this picture was taken either 1964 or 1965. It certainly looks to be a marque sports car race. I was wondering when the Healey 3000 became recognized as a Marque car - that could narrow down the possibilities.
#15
Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:25
The Carlisle accident was at the British GP meet in July 1963.
Thanks Pete. I had read that somewhere, but then saw on Frank's website that she finished tenth in the saloon event, with no mention of her Mini being involved in an accident. Did she have a second drive that day? Sports cars perhaps? Or did she spin her Mini on the last lap of the saloon race, crossing the line in the process?
Sorry for taking this OT Geoff.
#16
Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:26
Jon, I suspect that the Yimkin might well be a Terrier, I thought driven by Tony Belcher, but the hat is wrong IIRC, and Tony Youlten had another marque for 1963. The Elite no has me beaten as not a regular no. to me, so possibly Adrian Chambers or Norman Surtees, - a lot of straw clutching here......... and not much progress.
Distant recall suggests that we have seen a shot of the ali-bodied pre war Ford Spl before, possibly in old archives via e bay.
Roger Lund
BTW, Don Sim was on very fine form a few months back when I had some long conversations with him. A marvellous chap in the Len Terry mould, razor sharp and tells it as it is/was.
I thought Terrier as a second thought, but I think the rear wheel arches are wrong, though it may well be a Terrier a bit further back on the grid - Mind you, it was 1965 when I drove it; Dunlop R5s didn't work very well on ice!
IIRC, Adrian Chambers Elite was black and had the Bob Curl style radiator inlet.
Don Sim and I had a disagreement over how to cure the terminal understeer in fast corners,on the Valkyrie's first outing at Snetterton, when it was driven by Mike Walton "What do you know, you're only 19..." I had suggested that the problem was aerodynamic, and that letting the hot air from the radiator out of the top and putting a bib under the front might cure the problem.
Edited by Bloggsworth, 31 December 2012 - 12:31.
#17
Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:33
#18
Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:40
#19
Posted 31 December 2012 - 13:36
With this background (TV Tower, advertisements), it is close to May 1966.
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#20
Posted 31 December 2012 - 14:13
#22
Posted 31 December 2012 - 15:15
Yes, she drove in what I think was the last race of the day - Sports/GT cars - and she was in an Austin Healey Sprite.Thanks Pete. I had read that somewhere, but then saw on Frank's website that she finished tenth in the saloon event, with no mention of her Mini being involved in an accident. Did she have a second drive that day? Sports cars perhaps? Or did she spin her Mini on the last lap of the saloon race, crossing the line in the process?
Sorry for taking this OT Geoff.
#23
Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:25
#24
Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:44
There's a Brockbank cartoon of just that. Honest, guv!I'm still trying to process the puzzle that is motor-racing photos taken on a view camera that used 5 x 4 glass plates - I can just picture a man beside the start line with a black cloth draped over his head ...
#25
Posted 31 December 2012 - 19:02
Probably from 1962 onwards as the ex works 1961 le Mans Sprite 1411 is mid-grid. It is interesting to see a couple of Spitfires, and the Speedwell GT on the pitwall, whilst ex works AH3000 XJB876 looks well onto its way modsports spec. so may date the race
RL
Without any 1960s Autosport/Muttering Screws to hand I'm relying on memory but I think this Silverstone pic dates from circa 1966/67 given the flared rear arches, the width of the tyres, what seem like widened and welded steel rims and perhaps it is the car raced by Stewart Hands in period.
#26
Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:00
In photo 10 car No19 looks like one of Don Sims' Yimkins. I drove Richard Groombridge's one on ice at Brands hatch one freezing cold February day. I'm racking my inadequate brain trying to remember if the Elite 8188 MP is one I worked on at Delemare Road, and if so, whose was it - The number rings a muffled bell.
Jon, I suspect that the Yimkin might well be a Terrier, I thought driven by Tony Belcher, but the hat is wrong IIRC, and Tony Youlten had another marque for 1963.
Definately Terrier.
#27
Posted 02 January 2013 - 17:39
There's a Brockbank cartoon of just that. Honest, guv!
From memory, the caption ran something like "He says the last motor race he covered was the 1903 Paris-Vienna."
Edited by Odseybod, 02 January 2013 - 17:40.
#28
Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:51
Over to you.
#29
Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:42
Odseybod - I'm delighted to see your photos in this thread. They are all part of the history of our sport.
Geoff
#31
Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:44
Looking through those results I see there were two entries from the RAF MotorSport Association. The first for McKenzie, the second for J. C. Brown. I wonder if this was the same Flt Lt John Brown who featured in the thread on the Veritas BMW at Oulton ParkThe results for photo 8 can be found HERE.
DC
#32
Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:45
Andy has scanned some more photos for your entertainment and identification ...
15
#33
Posted 07 January 2013 - 00:14
#34
Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:01
14
Innes Ireland, Lotus 18, winning BRDC International Trophy, 14 May 1960 - Silverstone
#35
Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:06
I think you're right, AndrewWould this be July 6th 1963 with Frank Gardner on pole? I just have a problem with 7th on the grid (outside 2nd row) ?
Fellow Aussie John Ampt (Alexis) alongside, then John Mastin (JRRDS Lotus 22) and John Dunn (Brabham BT6)
The 7th car should be Melvyn Long in a JRRDS Lotus 27
#36
Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:20
Nick
#37
Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:46
Andy has scanned some more photos for your entertainment and identification ...
24
Geoff
Is this Alan Eccles in one of his Cooper-Chevvies?
#38
Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:59
#39
Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:07
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#40
Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:44
#41
Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:12
Roger Lund
Edited by bradbury west, 07 January 2013 - 13:30.
#42
Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:37
#43
Posted 07 January 2013 - 12:58
David, I have just been looking at the programme and results and Melvyn Long doesn't appear - the JRRDS entries were J.Mastin, Mike de Udy and M.Gould.I think you're right, Andrew
Fellow Aussie John Ampt (Alexis) alongside, then John Mastin (JRRDS Lotus 22) and John Dunn (Brabham BT6)
The 7th car should be Melvyn Long in a JRRDS Lotus 27
Sadly I believe Dunn was fatally injured during this race.
#44
Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:22
David, I have just been looking at the programme and results and Melvyn Long doesn't appear - the JRRDS entries were J.Mastin, Mike de Udy and M.Gould.
Sadly I believe Dunn was fatally injured during this race.
Stefan Ornerdal's site suggests that the #19 JRRDS car on the second row is that of Mike de Udy, although I can't find any other shots of Mike wearing a dark helmet.
Edited by john winfield, 07 January 2013 - 13:26.
#45
Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:09
And, yes, this was Dunn's last race
#46
Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:47
I'm still trying to process the puzzle that is motor-racing photos taken on a view camera that used 5 x 4 glass plates - I can just picture a man beside the start line with a black cloth draped over his head trying to focus on a rapidly departing John Whitmore; either that or looking through the wire frame of a Thornton-Pickard press camera...
Tell your driver chaps I am ready when they are, Mr Starter............
copyright Wolf Suschitsky, which I found on a brilliant photo website
Click on image for larger view
Roger Lund
Edited by bradbury west, 09 January 2013 - 22:48.
#47
Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:40
Geoff
#48
Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:00
Is this a Ferrari 500/625 in which case is it D Sievewright, the only name I can recall in that period with one?.
Roger Lund
#49
Posted 10 January 2013 - 20:36
Many thanks. A rescan in a higher res might help with some details on certain cars. Some are straightforward enough, JC in the Lotus, Pat Lindsay, I suspect, in the Napier Railton, Ireland guesting in the 156, a well known angle/shot from that race, understeering, with an inside wheel lifting in others' shots ISTR. etc.
Is this a Ferrari 500/625 in which case is it D Sievewright, the only name I can recall in that period with one?.
Roger Lund
Would that be Ian Sievwright, Roger? I remember him driving a Ferrari at one of my very first Silverstone meetings in 1964 or 1965.
#50
Posted 10 January 2013 - 21:18
Ian I think, didn't he go on to do the TR8 Le Mans car?Would that be Ian Sievwright, Roger? I remember him driving a Ferrari at one of my very first Silverstone meetings in 1964 or 1965.