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#1 Verderer

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:42

Banning driver topics, the meme and photoshop threads, really? So other than race events, what's there to discuss anymore? Removing all the fun parts can't be good, and you're fooling yourself anyways, if you think this is gonna get rid of trolling and offence taking. We can take it, but it seems you forum hosts cannot (or are too lazy to moderate). So why bother with the forum at all? It seems there's very little of interest remaining on this forum in the future. :|



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#2 jrg19

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:50

Forum will basically be dead apart from race weekends.

When a photo of Lewis appears in Mercedes gear would a thread under the title of "Lewis Hamiltons first photo in Mercedes gear" be allowed?

If yes, isn't the forum going to become littered with multiple 1 page threads?

Edited by jrg19, 01 January 2013 - 11:56.


#3 Risil

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:06

:clap:

And thanks to Buttoneer for his cogent explanation for the change.

Edited by Risil, 01 January 2013 - 12:21.


#4 swerved

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:14

"We have decided that the threads are a barrier to the free flow of discussion and ideas and have taken the decision to ban driver threads as part of the introduction to our new rules"


Well thats a bit of a shock, but not much of a surprise, personally i think its a load of old bollox, but then i also think the metered access is a load of old bollox, both of these decisions have been implemented with no consultation, no discussion, and no prior warning, Think i'll stick around for a while though, just to see if the RC forum does die the slow painful death that instinct dictates it will, but i'll be looking for somewhere else to air my views.

If anyone has the knowhow to organise a forum where posters thoughts are considered i would be more than prepared to pay a small subscription for it, hopefully someone with more knowledge than i will start something up.

#5 Coral

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:16

Forum will basically be dead apart from race weekends.

When a photo of Lewis appears in Mercedes gear would a thread under the title of "Lewis Hamiltons first photo in Mercedes gear" be allowed?

If yes, isn't the forum going to become littered with multiple 1 page threads?

:(

Sadly, I agree. I was totally dismayed when I saw that all the familiar threads had been closed. I am usually quite emotional at this time of year as it is, and I nearly burst into tears when I read the new "rules". Yes it sounds melodramatic, but I am really upset about this. As I posted mostly on the Lewis Hamilton thread, I feel as if I have been cut off from the forum. Sad days. :cry:



#6 goldenboy

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:17

Pretty crappy guys :down:

#7 Sin

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:22

Banning driver topics, the meme and photoshop threads, really? ...



Wait a moment... Meme and Photoshop threads will be banned too? I don't really mind the drivers threads vanishing.... o.O but Meme and Photoshop always was a great laugh :o

#8 outofspace

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:48

...Killing Me Softly ...

#9 Risil

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:51

Forum will basically be dead apart from race weekends.

When a photo of Lewis appears in Mercedes gear would a thread under the title of "Lewis Hamiltons first photo in Mercedes gear" be allowed?

If yes, isn't the forum going to become littered with multiple 1 page threads?


Come on, it's not that difficult. If you want to have Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes discussion, you could just create a thread called "Has Lewis Hamilton made the biggest mistake of his career?" or something equally inflammatory, but with wiggle-room for developments and spectacular proven-wrongness. Whoa, I just did.

Don't know about everyone else but 10+ page threads just put me off. Say something witty or controversial, hopefully generate some discussion, move on.

#10 goldenboy

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 12:57

Come on, it's not that difficult. If you want to have Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes discussion, you could just create a thread called "Has Lewis Hamilton made the biggest mistake of his career?" or something equally inflammatory, but with wiggle-room for developments and spectacular proven-wrongness. Whoa, I just did.

Don't know about everyone else but 10+ page threads just put me off. Say something witty or controversial, hopefully generate some discussion, move on.

ok I can see your point actually. But I'm still not 100% convinced.

#11 BenettonB192

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 13:08

Don't like the decission to ban the driver threads. :down:

I can only speak for myself but the SV thread was the only reason that i still visited this forum daily. Also it was my impression that the forum has become a little more civilized compared to when i joined (i used to report quite a few posts and ignore some users) so don't really follow the explanation.

#12 UPRC

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 13:08

Stupid move, forum staff. :down:

#13 wolviex

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 13:55

Bad start for 2013 really....

The drivers thread with all the news from other sources, gossips etc + some fun with photoshop was the only reason of me visiting here...... just don't understand :(

:down: :mad:

#14 Sin

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 14:03

I dont really see where the photoshop thread or meme thread could have been a problem I always just laughed at them and had fun they were very enjoyable to look at.... that they are now closed

driver threads I wont really miss since I just looked into the Vettel and Grosjean one and am relatively new to the board... but instead of closing them putting them into a subforum would have helped too I think

#15 Ravenak

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 14:12

This is ridiculous. I don't know how to express my confusion and anger towards you, but as I'm a polite guy, I will refrain myself of telling you what I think.

Shame on you.

#16 Jejking

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 14:33

Wait, what? No more civilized discussion? Are the moderators afraid of work? Not to mention that during the race weekends the forum will be unreachable due to lack of server power. I say, great idea! Bye Autosport.

#17 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 14:43

How do fewer people posting equal more server outage?

#18 pacificquay

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 15:14

Excellent decision.

The generic threads were ridiculous.

Much better to have individual threads on specific discussions which then live or die on their merits.

#19 Risil

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 15:18

^^

From a man who knows a thing or two about starting threads. :kiss:

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#20 kosmos

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 15:32

I don't agree with the decision but I respect it. Some people went too far in the drivers topics, too far, and in my opinion moderators here are too soft.

#21 Afterburner

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 17:12

Bold move; I wasn't too keen on the idea at first but after reading the rationale behind it I'm keen to see how it works.

But are the Photoshop, Caption, and Meme threads really going away? I don't know if that was necessary. :well:

#22 Jovanotti

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 17:28

So are we supposed to open a new thread for each and every bit of news considering a driver, and what would be the benefits with that? I frankly can't see any, apart from maybe putting people off discussing drivers in general. It will be a massive loss for me as the driver threads were one of my favourite places to keep up with the tons of articles and stuff you get every day. The community practically pre-selected it for you and you could help the others. Big :down:

#23 Disgrace

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 18:17

I feel obliged to come here to vent my complete and utter indifference to this issue.

#24 Group B

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 18:36

"We have decided that the threads are a barrier to the free flow of discussion and ideas and have taken the decision to ban driver threads as part of the introduction to our new rules"


Well thats a bit of a shock, but not much of a surprise, personally i think its a load of old bollox, but then i also think the metered access is a load of old bollox, both of these decisions have been implemented with no consultation, no discussion, and no prior warning, Think i'll stick around for a while though, just to see if the RC forum does die the slow painful death that instinct dictates it will, but i'll be looking for somewhere else to air my views.

If anyone has the knowhow to organise a forum where posters thoughts are considered i would be more than prepared to pay a small subscription for it, hopefully someone with more knowledge than i will start something up.

:up:
What bothers me most about this latest announcement is the gradual dumbing down of personality; 10 years ago this place was genuinely fun, where moderators were responsible but at the same time didn't take themselves too seriously, they allowed a bit of banter, wit, etc and treated most fellow forumers as equals, but in recent years one or two (by no means all) of the mods seem to be on power trips, quashing any sign of dissent with instant ban threats champing at the bit to close threads for not being technical, logical, serious, enough.

I appreciate it's a time consuming volunteer exercise, preventing mayhem taking over, and wholeheartedly thank them for their time in making the whole exercise practicable, but rather like pulling on a police uniform being promoted to mod doesn't instantly make you wise, more experienced, cleverer or a better judge than anyone else. I guess I'd just rather see a bit more interaction/discussion and a bit less dictating. :well:

#25 Risil

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 18:43

That's not been my experience at all, and I've started some pretty stupid threads.

#26 Brandz07

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 18:49

Silly move in my opinion, I'm not sure what the gain is and I doubt it outweighs the negatives. I always thought the forum needed to relax on the generic threads, but banning them all together seems daft.

If I find something small relating to a driver that I think some forum users will find interesting, where does it go?

Edited by Brandz07, 01 January 2013 - 18:53.


#27 jj2728

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 18:51

Good on the mods. The driver threads were turning into 'lovefest hero worshipping' threads anyhow with any resaonable voice of dissent being shouted down by all and sundry fans of said drivers. Maybe this will pave the way for more resaonable discussions without the need to call someone a troll or a flame-baiter and yet at the same time weeding out those who wish to contribute nothing more than driver x's latest fashion faux paux.

#28 Jovanotti

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 18:58

Good on the mods. The driver threads were turning into 'lovefest hero worshipping' threads anyhow with any resaonable voice of dissent being shouted down by all and sundry fans of said drivers. Maybe this will pave the way for more resaonable discussions without the need to call someone a troll or a flame-baiter and yet at the same time weeding out those who wish to contribute nothing more than driver x's latest fashion faux paux.

On the contrary, they will open their own threads for these small bits now (at least that's my understanding of what we are supposed to do from now on).

#29 Group B

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 19:09

On the contrary, they will open their own threads for these small bits now (at least that's my understanding of what we are supposed to do from now on).

This does indeed seem likely; we could easily end up with 3 or 4 new threads about a given driver being opened each day. I can absolutely see the argument about not having driver worship threads, but it seems a real shame if the principle of driver news/update/titbit threads can't be salvaged, both from a getting news point of view and for avoiding a million new threads on assorted minutia.

#30 pRy

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 19:26

I guess there are pros and cons to both approaches. On the one hand dedicated threads for drivers/teams are a quick and easy dumping ground for posts that perhaps don't deserve their own thread creation. But at the same time I can see what the mods are saying.. these 'mega' threads have simply become a playground where people are arguing/trolling constantly page after page. Which is easier to moderate? Probably the new solution, as the playground won't exist anymore or at least will be more fractured than it is now which in theory will make it more difficult to have these long running battles.

I don't think it will make life much more difficult for the forum users.. you'll still have to look at the thread list like you do now to see if theres a discussion about what you want to discuss. Nothing changes there really. The mods will find out if it makes their lives easier or not. I think we're fortunate to still have the forum.

Edited by pRy, 01 January 2013 - 19:26.


#31 Crafty

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 19:34

Presumably this will extend to the Team, Car and TV coverage threads too ?

e.g. no "Mclaren 2013", "RB8 thread", "BBC Coverage" threads?

If a rule is going to be put in place you need to make it consistent I think.


#32 hello86

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 19:42

Dont like and dont understand this decision at all. :cry:

#33 hello86

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 19:42

Presumably this will extend to the Team, Car and TV coverage threads too ?

e.g. no "Mclaren 2013", "RB8 thread", "BBC Coverage" threads?

If a rule is going to be put in place you need to make it consistent I think.


:up:

#34 Disgrace

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 19:48

That's just stupid given the regularity that cars get physical updates. With the BBC/Sky thread that has been going around in circles since it's conception, you may have a point.

#35 Risil

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 19:55

The team threads are almost as irritating as the driver ones, same tendency towards splitting into no-dissent cliques, same unwieldy size, they're practically like sub-forums consisting of one thread.

I tend to find car threads and the TV coverage threads useful as far as they contain technical discussion/analysis and news, or focus on the TV coverage itself. Actually the BBC/Sky thread was quite worthwhile. Being able to compare the two channels -- and for Brits without Sky, to see how the other half lives -- was enlightening.

I'm not particularly thrilled by the layout of the Bike Thread: the smart crowd micro-community that used to inhabit it is pretty much inactive now, possibly because they were relatively low-frequency posters who got swamped by the rapid-fire postings we get these days. But whole threads about niche topics like the Claiming Rule Teams or Honda's seamless-shifter or the future of Grand Prix racing in Malaysia might let a more interesting range of opinions and perspectives in. Just my thoughts. :)

Edited by Risil, 01 January 2013 - 19:56.


#36 D.M.N.

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 19:58

Presumably this will extend to the Team, Car and TV coverage threads too ?

e.g. no "Mclaren 2013", "RB8 thread", "BBC Coverage" threads?

If a rule is going to be put in place you need to make it consistent I think.

Only driver threads. Other kind of threads we have decided to keep. Per the revised RC rules: http://forums.autosp...=...p;f=2&id=12

"We have also taken the decision to ban the general driver threads. They have evolved beyond their original remit to track items of interest only to that driver and have been used to variously discuss areas outside of motorsport, on track incidents involving that driver, teammate battles and for many other discussions well outside of the topic. Threads can still be started to discuss issues affecting a single driver, but this must be with a specific remit or point of discussion, such as the possibility of them racing in a particular series or team."

#37 Group B

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 20:08

Only driver threads. Other kind of threads we have decided to keep. Per the revised RC rules: http://forums.autosp...=...p;f=2&id=12

"We have also taken the decision to ban the general driver threads. They have evolved beyond their original remit to track items of interest only to that driver and have been used to variously discuss areas outside of motorsport, on track incidents involving that driver, teammate battles and for many other discussions well outside of the topic. Threads can still be started to discuss issues affecting a single driver, but this must be with a specific remit or point of discussion, such as the possibility of them racing in a particular series or team."

That's fine, but what about 'small' news that only fans of a given driver might find interesting but really aren't worthy of a dedicated thread? i.e. the discovery a new interview, or perhaps news of change of helmet brand and such the like. Do I understand correctly that the general idea is subjects will only be allowed if there are potential 'opposing' viewpoints that can forthwith be 'debated'?

#38 pacificquay

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 20:19

If threads are started that don't generate much debate, they'll slip down the list very quickly. A natural process. I'm not sure why on this forum in the past starting a thread has been viewed as a cardinal sin, and it's positive that is changing

#39 apoka

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 20:29

Presumably this will extend to the Team, Car and TV coverage threads too ?

e.g. no "Mclaren 2013", "RB8 thread", "BBC Coverage" threads?

If a rule is going to be put in place you need to make it consistent I think.

The consistent continuation would be to close all threads rapidly, for instance after 5 days from their creation.

For me, the forum is probably less valuable without the driver threads (I'll see how it develops in the next weeks). Sometimes, they contained heated discussion, but most of the time you could get the latest info on drivers you are interested in.

I also agree that we will either have lots of small threads or just less traffic in general. I'm not sure whether it is really worth posting minor news as a separate thread. A separate subforum for driver threads could have been a less intrusive solution.


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#40 Wingcommander

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 20:45

I think this was an interesting move by the mods. Never really liked the driver threads anyway, because all the interesting stuff seemed to disappear under the fanboy/hater discussion. I have no desire to read through five pages of rubbish (from my POV) every day just to see if there is something worth commenting. Let's see how this goes..

#41 Crafty

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 22:14

Only driver threads. Other kind of threads we have decided to keep. Per the revised RC rules: http://forums.autosp...=...p;f=2&id=12

"We have also taken the decision to ban the general driver threads. They have evolved beyond their original remit to track items of interest only to that driver and have been used to variously discuss areas outside of motorsport, on track incidents involving that driver, teammate battles and for many other discussions well outside of the topic. Threads can still be started to discuss issues affecting a single driver, but this must be with a specific remit or point of discussion, such as the possibility of them racing in a particular series or team."


So are we saying that the McLaren team thread never got stuff about their road going cars or electronics business in them ?
Likewise the Force India thread had nothing about Kingfisher/Mallya being in trouble with the airline ?
Or the hundred of other "non racing" snippets that appear.
From what I see the team/car threads end up getting trolled just as badly as any other.

I kind of understand where mods are coming from with this rule, but all you'll end up doing is pushing it in to the team threads.
But the summary of "General threads about F1 drivers aren't allowed on the autosport forum" just sounds bizarre.

To be fair I don't have an alternative solution, so mods are still one up :)


#42 404KF2

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 22:39

The Photoshopped thread was the best one here. We need that (minus the boring Formulaonehumour "contributions") :D

#43 Vic Vega

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 22:59

Ah finally, metered number of posts.

#44 swerved

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 23:58

:up:
What bothers me most about this latest announcement is the gradual dumbing down of personality; 10 years ago this place was genuinely fun, where moderators were responsible but at the same time didn't take themselves too seriously, they allowed a bit of banter, wit, etc and treated most fellow forumers as equals, but in recent years one or two (by no means all) of the mods seem to be on power trips, quashing any sign of dissent with instant ban threats champing at the bit to close threads for not being technical, logical, serious, enough.

I appreciate it's a time consuming volunteer exercise, preventing mayhem taking over, and wholeheartedly thank them for their time in making the whole exercise practicable, but rather like pulling on a police uniform being promoted to mod doesn't instantly make you wise, more experienced, cleverer or a better judge than anyone else. I guess I'd just rather see a bit more interaction/discussion and a bit less dictating. :well:



:up: Completely agree, I suppose i've been reading the boards for about 4 years and posting for a bit less than 3 of those and even over that time i've seen the board become more rigid, more controlled, which is why i find it ironic that the changes have been made to encourage the "free flow of discussion", It isn't the free flow of discussion at all, its the free flow of whatever the mods dictate, it doesn't make any sense to me at all,though it might to others.

For those who dont/didn't like the drivers threads, there's always been an extremely simple solution, dont read the damn things!, the fact is that they were always popular, as witnessed by their near constant placing on page 1, I cant help but feel that this decision has only been welcomed by people who are unable or unwilling to ignore a thread they dont wish to contribute to, the same kind of posters who "need" an ignore button rather than having to excercise their own discretion.

Like others i found the photoshop, caption and meme threads brilliant, aside from the pathetic whinging about F1humours watermark, and the "Oh but thats not strictly a meme" comments, they are or were a place where a different slant could be put on F1 news and views, a fantastic testament to, and source of, other people wit, humour, and creativity, and when like me you're not creative enough to be able to manipulate images it was a delight seeing others do such a great job such as sleepy Kimi, Alonso the bus driver, Vettels finger, Lewis's fashion Faux pas etc etc, things like these helped encourage free flow, banning driver threads stifles it, diverts it, fragments it.

Vic Vega has hit the nail on the head "Metred Posts", I think the board in general, like the site as a whole, is in a bit of a decline, it needs lightening up, not tightening up.

#45 zepunishment

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:07

Most of the main stories on the site are now behind a paywall and those that aren't are fairly generic- so the forum is I find the main draw for me. The meme/photoshop and thread of my chosen driver were pretty much my main viewing points on the forum, along with perhaps one or two threads which took my fancy. However without these I'll probably now reduce my time here.

Overall, this is bad for autosport as the forum brought me to the autosport.com site and on occasion I would pay the one off fee for an article - one on Group C racers comes to mind recently- but without the forum as it was I simply won't be drawn to autosport like I was. I can't see how you can realistically stop flaming/trolling/whatever with the demographic that inhabits RC without being extremely draconian and driving members away. I'm sure I read on the rule changes somewhere that you can't even discuss the rules of the site openly...



#46 philhitchings

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:09

The driver threads were a nightmare. they ended up being a kind of bottom kitchen drawer; initially useful for putting all those little items in one place but inevitably ended up being a complete and utter mess. Subject specific threads are easier for people to contribute. IMO the decline that people have referred to here is more to do with posters than mods.

#47 apoka

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 06:28

:up: Completely agree, I suppose i've been reading the boards for about 4 years and posting for a bit less than 3 of those and even over that time i've seen the board become more rigid, more controlled, which is why i find it ironic that the changes have been made to encourage the "free flow of discussion", It isn't the free flow of discussion at all, its the free flow of whatever the mods dictate, it doesn't make any sense to me at all,though it might to others.

For those who dont/didn't like the drivers threads, there's always been an extremely simple solution, dont read the damn things!, the fact is that they were always popular, as witnessed by their near constant placing on page 1, I cant help but feel that this decision has only been welcomed by people who are unable or unwilling to ignore a thread they dont wish to contribute to, the same kind of posters who "need" an ignore button rather than having to excercise their own discretion.

Like others i found the photoshop, caption and meme threads brilliant, aside from the pathetic whinging about F1humours watermark, and the "Oh but thats not strictly a meme" comments, they are or were a place where a different slant could be put on F1 news and views, a fantastic testament to, and source of, other people wit, humour, and creativity, and when like me you're not creative enough to be able to manipulate images it was a delight seeing others do such a great job such as sleepy Kimi, Alonso the bus driver, Vettels finger, Lewis's fashion Faux pas etc etc, things like these helped encourage free flow, banning driver threads stifles it, diverts it, fragments it.

Vic Vega has hit the nail on the head "Metred Posts", I think the board in general, like the site as a whole, is in a bit of a decline, it needs lightening up, not tightening up.

:up:

As mentioned before, the driver threads could also be moved to a separate subforum. This way, they would interfere less with the other threads.


#48 Adelaide

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:06

As a relative newcomer to Formula 1 I've found the forum invaluable to help me understand the sport better. It was a good mixture of serious dicussion and more light hearted threads. The driver threads occasionally got off track but I haven't seen that much to be concerned with. Did something controversial happen that I missed? I alway miss the drama.

#49 H0R

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:13

A Forum without threads is pretty much worthless. Exceptionally bad idea by the as usual heavy handed mods. I won't renew my subscription, as I don't think I'll feel home here any longer.

Edited by H0R, 02 January 2013 - 09:15.


#50 noikeee

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 09:59

Holy melodramatics. Nothing's really been banned other than generic everything-goes-in-threads. You can still create threads to debate whatever you want, in whichever tone you want such as "Fernando Alonso's questionable behaviour off-track", "Is Lewis Hamilton off his meds to move to Mercedes", "Raikkonen and alcohol", "Is Vettel actually any good", etc. That's going to generate the same lame debates, and will avoid 80-pages unreadable monsters which can only be a good thing. As for the photoshop/meme ones I'm not entirely sure what happened for this somewhat drastic measure, I agree that's a bit harsh there, but it's got to have been some idiot who ruined it for everyone. They were generally unfunny anyway with very little wit (though A+ for the effort of some folks).

In fact that's pretty much the core of the question, the idiot users who ruin it for everyone else. I don't understand the lot claiming the mods are heavy-handed, if anything they're too lenient, I see dicks around writting literally hundreds of posts all about the exact same subject - usually defending one driver and attacking all others - and nothing happens. I agree it'd be far nicer if we could all take this board as a bit of light-hearted banter, but that's been made impossible due to the brigade of my-driver-is-better-than-yours. That brigade always existed but it has increased in number over the years and became more and more dead-serious. What would you do in the mods place? Let them free and the forum becomes unreadable, close down on them with strict rules and you get this kind of complaints. They can't win.

Also, threatening you're not renewing your subscriptions or leaving autosport.com isn't going to do anything, the forum is quite independent from the main site with the mods being voluntaries. I've already stopped giving Autosport any money a long time ago, because it wasn't value for money for myself and metered access is really taking the p*ss on top of that, but that has nothing to do with the forum.