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#51 Bartel

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 11:12

I think these decisions are a step back for the forum, as everyone has said, the driver threads to get out of hand, but thats what moderators are for right? And if the Mods are 'too busy' to keep up, get new mods? Or appoint more mods? Take away driver threads will do nothing but attract a new thread every 5 minutes results in the 1st page having 5 Vettel threads and 6 Hamilton threads, which will all be closed anyway? As a member here since 2005 (under different accounts) the way the forum has been moderated since then has gotten progressively more strict and to me, not for the benefit of the forum, there are some positives like certain nonsense posters not having a long life here but I have witnessed a lot of knee jerk reactions to small things, driver threads now being added to that list. But, its been a day, so lets see how things turn out, we may all end u with egg on our face and it may be for the better, who knows, all i know is I can't wait for the end of January and the launch of the new cars.

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#52 pRy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 14:05

I think these decisions are a step back for the forum, as everyone has said, the driver threads to get out of hand, but thats what moderators are for right?


Well keep in mind that these moderators are, to the best of my knowledge, unpaid and perform their duty in their spare time. So I can understand why they've collectively become tired of the 'mega' threads which were playgrounds. I think moderation is something we take for granted. We assume there will always be someone there with the time and patience to get rid of the bad posts. If the mods have collectively decided enough is enough.. then we just have to accept that really. It could be worse.

Edited by pRy, 02 January 2013 - 14:06.


#53 brightlampshade

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 14:45

Does seem a little odd to ban such threads but maybe theres a greater plan in mind. I'm sure most people use several forums to discuss F1 so it will just give others a bit more traffic :cat:
The off season does make things a little quieter so I would have thought holding off till March would have been a better plan?

#54 rasul

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 16:29

Very disappointed with banning the drivers' threads. They were the best thing about this forum. I don't understand the logic of such a decision. So having ten different threads about Hamilton is better than having one?

Edited by rasul, 02 January 2013 - 16:30.


#55 Wolfie

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 16:52

Very disappointed with banning the drivers' threads. They were the best thing about this forum. I don't understand the logic of such a decision. So having ten different threads about Hamilton is better than having one?


:up:

This decision just opened up the door for trolls to cause mayhem. The amount of matters to create threads about are endless. My guess is that this will soon become a real jungle where multiple threads are created since people don't have time to look at page 6 where the first thread about the matter was started.

Then again the mods have probably thought this through so it doesn't come as any surprise to them  ;)

#56 goldenboy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 17:19

yep, for the people complainig that it was a monster thread or whatever, there are also people who don't like having to jump around to 6 different threads to discuss the same driver and often discuss the same thing.

#57 Ali_G

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 18:35

I remember a time on here when there was no driver or team threads and RC was a much, much better place for it.

If you want to start a discussion about some aspect of a driver, then start a thread about it, give it a good title and be witty in your opening post. Thrawling through pages and pages of a drivers thread is nauseating and is going nothing for the forum.


On the flip side, banning those fun thread is an awful mistake and is taking something away from the forum, especially at this time of the year.

#58 Afterburner

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 17:15

Good move keeping the Photoshop and Caption threads alive, guys. Very happy to see them stay around. :) :up:

#59 beute

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 21:20

I dont fully buy the official reason they gave us for banning driver threads.

Pretty sure it has at least something to do with the limited news access.
Those threads were a source for news, we got information from other users and even links to other websites.
it was the number1 source for me once my 50 views are gone.

The driver threads made limited access to most driver related news on autosport absolutely meaningless.
So that is my guess for why they did it.

I will probably end up visiting different websites as a result of the ban, no matter what reason it is.

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#60 swerved

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 21:36

I dont fully buy the official reason they gave us for banning driver threads.

Pretty sure it has at least something to do with the limited news access.
Those threads were a source for news, we got information from other users and even links to other websites.
it was the number1 source for me once my 50 views are gone.

The driver threads made limited access to most driver related news on autosport absolutely meaningless.
So that is my guess for why they did it.

I will probably end up visiting different websites as a result of the ban, no matter what reason it is.



Bingo! :wave:


#61 Afterburner

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 22:44

I dont fully buy the official reason they gave us for banning driver threads.

Pretty sure it has at least something to do with the limited news access.
Those threads were a source for news, we got information from other users and even links to other websites.
it was the number1 source for me once my 50 views are gone.

The driver threads made limited access to most driver related news on autosport absolutely meaningless.
So that is my guess for why they did it.

I will probably end up visiting different websites as a result of the ban, no matter what reason it is.

I disagree. The driver threads tended to bring out the worst in members--whether they were praising or hazing a driver. Their non-existence will be a benefit to the forum, in my opinion.

What you state above may be a side-effect of that, but if they truly wanted to accomplish what you've said, wouldn't they have banned the team threads as well?

#62 Risil

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 23:15

Or banned links.

#63 beute

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:50

Or banned links.

banning links would not prevent people from copy/pasting stuff while on the other hand mess with other unrelated threads and topics.

as for team threads:
they are not nearly as popular as driver threads and on top of it have the most important part of the team excluded from those topics: the cars have their own seperate topics

Edited by beute, 04 January 2013 - 08:54.


#64 Craven Morehead

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 21:15

I think its been a good move and is already showing success. Banning the driver threads, where so many comments are fanboy/ hater / troll, brings various topics that used to be buried in these threads out into the realm of general discussion. The change has brought about a whole host of new interesting threads, with far less bickering and name calling. A true win-win and very well done by the mods. :up: :up: :up:

#65 ivand911

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 22:43

Wrong move, to close driver threads. Luckily in that situation, my favourite driver just retire. I always found a lot of information in driver threads. So, it is not much to do here any-more. Easy transition away from F1 and the forum. Is there another F1 forum without driver threads?

Edited by ivand911, 04 January 2013 - 22:46.


#66 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:51

We are allowed to have teammate battle topics right? I'm sure some driver related news is allowed in these topics.

#67 prty

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:04

Actually I think I prefer the pre-merging era, where having gigantic generic threads wasn't the solution to everything, so I like the measure.
I miss for example, Race Addicted after-quali and after-race threads, and also the Live Forum instead of the crappy live chat in a separate section of the website...

#68 Ali_G

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 23:59

I think its been a good move and is already showing success. Banning the driver threads, where so many comments are fanboy/ hater / troll, brings various topics that used to be buried in these threads out into the realm of general discussion. The change has brought about a whole host of new interesting threads, with far less bickering and name calling. A true win-win and very well done by the mods. :up: :up: :up:


It has been a huge success in my book with RC returning somewhat to what it was pre-troll fest.

#69 Jovanotti

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 18:07

Question to moderators: are we allowed to have "Driver XY news thread" 's to post articles from various sites, newspapers, etc.? Thx for clarifying.

#70 pacificquay

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 19:47

No, that's the point.

If you have a news item about a driver, then that warrants its own individual thread for discussion.

If it's a popular chat it will be near the top of the forum and if no-one is interested it will drop down.

Simples.

#71 Zmeej

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 21:41

Hmmm. There appears to be a significant inversely proportional correlation between the number of years of membership and the degree of dissatisfaction with the "clampdown" - with some exceptions which seem to prove the rule, notably:

Wingcommander for the Yays;
Group B for the Nays.

Am heartened that Disgrace checked in with an eloquent display of apathy :up: :)

I feel obliged to come here to vent my complete and utter indifference to this issue.


Look forward to seeing some statements from the Demotivational constituency, as well as from the nihilistic.

Carry on. :wave:

Edited by Zmeej, 08 January 2013 - 21:41.


#72 Craven Morehead

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:06

Hmmm. There appears to be a significant inversely proportional correlation between the number of years of membership and the degree of dissatisfaction with the "clampdown"


Very astute observation this. Nice work.

#73 sharo

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:22

I haven't read much of the forum recently. But from the glimpses I have it seems that most of the things that have been discussed are still there. While mammoth threads which just grew in spiral manner, a new turn every few pages cause nobody cared (and could) to read from the beginning, are gone. Seems with positive effect.
And ... I've been around since 2004 :)

#74 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:57

Something needs to be done about how each thread goes exactly the same way. Certain mods also need to stop having favourites who often stoke the fire, but aren't usually the ones who get warned. It needs to be the same for everybody and I know my tone has changed here since I first started posting simply because you can't comment without being trolled most of the time. It takes a big man not to retaliate of course, but that's easier said than done when every thread contains the same flow of tripe.

#75 275 GTB-4

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:24

Something needs to be done about how each thread goes exactly the same way. Certain mods also need to stop having favourites who often stoke the fire, but aren't usually the ones who get warned. It needs to be the same for everybody and I know my tone has changed here since I first started posting simply because you can't comment without being trolled most of the time. It takes a big man not to retaliate of course, but that's easier said than done when every thread contains the same flow of tripe.


:up:

#76 Slartibartfast

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 14:17

I'm cautiously optimistic. It may be coincidence that I perused the Racing Comments forum for the first time this year a couple of days ago and thought it seemed less belligerent than in recent times. At the time I didn't notice the new policy and assumed the change was because of the holiday season with no racing and little news.

I dont fully buy the official reason they gave us for banning driver threads.

Pretty sure it has at least something to do with the limited news access.
Those threads were a source for news, we got information from other users and even links to other websites.
it was the number1 source for me once my 50 views are gone.

The driver threads made limited access to most driver related news on autosport absolutely meaningless.
So that is my guess for why they did it.

I will probably end up visiting different websites as a result of the ban, no matter what reason it is.

I don't follow your reasoning. As far as I am aware, there is no rule preventing the posting of news/information about a driver. If one has news that one wishes to impart about driver X, instead of posting it in the "driver X" thread, where it will be overlooked by the majority of forum members, one starts a new thread with an appropriate "teaser" in the title.
There was a time when I visited a certain driver's thread when I saw new posts because I hoped to find some news, but it had become increasingly common to find merely the latest bout of a slanging match. So I visited less and less. As a consequence I probably missed some information that I would have appreciated. Provided the members with the news continue to post it, it should now be easier, rather than harder, to find it.

Am heartened that Disgrace checked in with an eloquent display of apathy :up: :)

Who cares about apathy?

Look forward to seeing some statements from the Demotivational constituency, as well as from the nihilistic.

Posted Image
I would ask if that's what you wanted, but it really doesn't matter.

Keep calm and

Carry on. :wave:



#77 midgrid

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 16:07

I approve of the changes made so far, although it will be interesting to see what happens when teams start launching their cars and testing begins. The season opener itself will be on another level again.

#78 kosmos

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 17:10

The real test is after the first race, not now or testing. When the time comes, I hope moderators become terminators with trolls and people that come here just to spread their hate against drivers or teams.

#79 Vitesse2

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 18:46

Who cares about apathy?

I would. If I could actually be bothered.

:yawnface:

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#80 jonpollak

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 18:55

Perhaps that damn "IPS Driver Error"* I keep getting during races is actually a front for the mods secretly deploying a sardine and salad cream sandwich into the servers in a crafty pre-emptive measure as soon as Kimi or LuLu sneezes sideways ?

And maybe if all the folks Zmeej mentioned, up there a few posts ago, will just go away knowing they can't defend the valour of their faultless hero from the safety of mums bedroom any longer. At least not here.

a Win/Win?

Hope so

* Who IS this IPS driver and why does he keep crashing?
Shouldn't he be replaced?
I bet Villeneuve is available !

Jp

#81 Imperial

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 19:26

The forum membership en masse have brought this on themselves. There is no point people moaning now if they have spent their time here acting like an obnoxious spoiled nursery school kid.

I've barely bothered with the forum for a few years now and simply because you hardly dare express an opinion without fear of having to ignore (easier said than done) or put up with responding to countless insulting, combative, hateful morons.

Being a believer in free speech I should hate and protest this move, but if this is what it takes to restore the forum to what it once was, then so be it.

Edited by Imperial, 09 January 2013 - 19:28.


#82 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:03

Well it gets even more confusing when Buttoneer asks people to post new threads discussing the number one status of a specific driver. When I suggest I thought driver specific threads were banned, my post gets removed and no answer given. Its exactly this sort of lazy moderation we are talking about here.

#83 midgrid

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:56

My understanding is that generic driver threads are banned (covering anything and everything relating to the subject), but that single-issue threads about a particular driver are permitted.

#84 Risil

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 21:10

Well it gets even more confusing when Buttoneer asks people to post new threads discussing the number one status of a specific driver. When I suggest I thought driver specific threads were banned, my post gets removed and no answer given. Its exactly this sort of lazy moderation we are talking about here.


Discussions or comments about moderator actions are therefore discouraged in the forum itself even where they involve you. If you want to enquire why your post was deleted or edited, ask one of us via PM


This has been a rule for as long as I can remember?

#85 Jejking

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 14:28

The forum membership en masse have brought this on themselves. There is no point people moaning now if they have spent their time here acting like an obnoxious spoiled nursery school kid.

I've barely bothered with the forum for a few years now and simply because you hardly dare express an opinion without fear of having to ignore (easier said than done) or put up with responding to countless insulting, combative, hateful morons.

Being a believer in free speech I should hate and protest this move, but if this is what it takes to restore the forum to what it once was, then so be it.

It's a matter of one small group messing stuff up for EVERYONE dude. What's not to like about that? Oh wait, everything.

#86 Imperial

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 19:25

It's a matter of one small group messing stuff up for EVERYONE dude. What's not to like about that? Oh wait, everything.


I have to disagree. I find there is a very vocal and moronic majority who have been mucking the place up for years.

Probably being a huge snob here, but I also find the general level of debate and understanding to be low. There are very few folk here with anything really, and I mean REALLY, valuable to contribute. I speak of the RC forum only when I say that by the way.

#87 Risil

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 19:36

Sturgeon's Law

#88 Craven Morehead

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 02:46

I have to disagree. I find there is a very vocal and moronic majority who have been mucking the place up for years.

Probably being a huge snob here, but I also find the general level of debate and understanding to be low. There are very few folk here with anything really, and I mean REALLY, valuable to contribute. I speak of the RC forum only when I say that by the way.


Sadly I have to agree with this. It takes a lot of rooting through rubbish to uncover the tidbits of worthwhile stuff. Hopefully these new changes will help turn things around a bit. I really believe its helped *a lot*.

Edited by Craven Morehead, 11 January 2013 - 04:01.


#89 sharo

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:03

I don't think much will change. Simply because the composition of the forum members base has changed with the years - language has changed, manners too. And mentality too IMHO.
When I first came to this place in the Atlas days for me it was a source to enrich my vocabulary and a model for good mannered English language. Gradually the level of communication seems to have gone down as new generation of fans came. And I am afraid this cannot be fought with some rule changes.

Edited by sharo, 11 January 2013 - 12:03.


#90 jonpollak

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 12:51

Probably being a huge snob here...

Translation: discerning,astute,perceptive,sophisticated,civilized and..caring about the sliding standards of a once wonderful community.

You go girl..
Jp



#91 Group B

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 13:20

I don't think much will change. Simply because the composition of the forum members base has changed with the years - language has changed, manners too. And mentality too IMHO.
When I first came to this place in the Atlas days for me it was a source to enrich my vocabulary and a model for good mannered English language. Gradually the level of communication seems to have gone down as new generation of fans came. And I am afraid this cannot be fought with some rule changes.

That's not 100% true; even 8 or 9 years ago there were plenty of idiots and trolls, most of whom got banned pretty quickly. There were also harmless 'extremists' such as dan2k, who posted some pretty daft stuff, but were essentially inoffensive.

At the risk of stealing Imperial's snob baton, I do have to aggree in that I think the quality of communication has dropped a bit, with more lower-case lovers and text-speak shorthand. On the whole though, the level is still good here, there's a lot of written, intelligent information, opinion and discussion.

#92 Disgrace

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 15:27

Sadly I have to agree with this. It takes a lot of rooting through rubbish to uncover the tidbits of worthwhile stuff. Hopefully these new changes will help turn things around a bit. I really believe its helped *a lot*.


What is this worthwhile stuff of which you speak? I think expectations should be kept in check considering that this is a free forum to which all can sign up.

Edited by Disgrace, 11 January 2013 - 15:28.


#93 Jejking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 16:28

What is this worthwhile stuff of which you speak? I think expectations should be kept in check considering that this is a free forum to which all can sign up.

You know, good historic contributions or peeps with a tech degree who are actually understanding what is going on.

#94 RJL

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 17:29

Add me to the growing list of oldies who like the recent changes. I had completely given up on opening the driver threads as they were so polluted with bickering. As another member said this is a win - win. Maybe its just the residual holiday spirit, but it feels a bit more like the old days (this is a good thing). :)

#95 race addicted

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 17:42

I decided a wait´n´see approach, and it's definitely a change for the better, and indeed the forum has taken a small step towards what it was I think.

#96 Jejking

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 17:42

Well, I might believe the positivity of the changes as well. Eventually.

#97 Craven Morehead

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 02:19

That's the spirit. :up:

#98 Disgrace

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:43

You know, good historic contributions or peeps with a tech degree who are actually understanding what is going on.


Well quite, but you've just described the nostalgia and technical forums respectively. With the RC section, with easily more posts than the rest of the forum combined, I think my point still stands. This new ruling only needs to affect that section.

Edited by Disgrace, 12 January 2013 - 04:45.


#99 petri

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:20

Been watching F1 last 30 years and I've always considered it as an entertainment. The more you know about it (tactics, engineering, etc.) the more interesting it is. However, it should be still fun! In every hobby - wines, sport, music, whatever - there are always a group of people who take their hobbies too seriously. They think they are "experts" but I say those people just don't have sense of humor, that's all. :cat: I feel that closing topics including several thousand messages is an arrogant gesture, indeed! :rolleyes:

Bye! :wave:

Edited by petri, 14 January 2013 - 08:21.


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#100 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 16:57

I've been around these 'nets since it was literally black and white.

Forums go through phases in population, intelligence and popularity. Which, as an internet mechanism is one thing, but I think also speaks to something about the sociology of humans in general... but I digress (please don't taze me!)...

When a forum reaches a certain population/saturation point, the laws of i.q. come into play. You can't expect to fight the median i.q. level.

You either try to change things, or you let it become feral. Note that really, from a corporate standpoint, it is in Autosport's best interest to actually let it become feral; one of the largest and most popular musician-oriented message boards is like that (Harmony Central, the Mos Eisley of the internet). Another, Gearslutz, is passing into that phase and appears to be going through similar problems.

Here's the problem:

Gearslutz started taking a very heavy handed approach, a "no tolerance" kind of policy regarding "behavior". Ironically, it did seem to help - but moronically, the quality of posting did not go up, but remained rather febrile while the actual professionals became annoyed and left.

That, I think, is the conundrum the forums here are facing.

I do not think trying to arbitrarily make lines in the virtual sand is going to make things "better" around here. It's just going to turn people off.

A progressive system based on post count (ala the lounge) is probably the only ... reasonable thing that one can expect to do to make a "forum" self-regulating.

Otherwise, a totalitarian approach *in what is effectively a free society* does not work. People can choose to go elsewhere. It's part of the reason I originally went from being 50/50 Speed board/Atlas F1 to just 100% AtlasF1. You will eventually tick off just about everybody when the rules are subjective.

$.10