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Lewis @ Mercedes: the biggest mistake of his career?


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Poll: Lewis Hamilton has made a terrible mistake (562 member(s) have cast votes)

You reckon?

  1. Nah man, he's gonna be great, relax (255 votes [45.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.62%

  2. He'll probably beat Rosberg, the rest is someone else's responsibility (144 votes [25.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.76%

  3. No biggie, he'll be back at Mclaren in 2016 (46 votes [8.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.23%

  4. OH SHI- (114 votes [20.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.39%

Vote

#201 garoidb

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 18:34

I don't think it is a mistake. It was his best option by far, if he really wanted to go for the MS route, and not for the opportunistic Senna route. If he really wants to improve himself this is the way to go. It is a risk, and that is what makes it respectful. Merc should be pretty solid, for all the obvious reasons that had been touched upon, even taking into account the pissoff seasons they produced so far. If it was a mistake it will be very obvious by mid-season this year, I don't think it will take three seasons to decide that.


I think it is a bit early to be calling this the MS route. Let's see if he can live up to that comparison first.

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#202 tifosiMac

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 18:41

Its all very real today seeing Sergio in his McLaren uniform and the excitement is building now to see Lewis settling in to his new team. I'm not bothered about comparisons with Schumacher because that's irrelevant. This is Hamilton's career and he's built his own path in F1, sod those before him. I'm sure its nice to hear yourself compared to the greats but the focus is purely on making ones own history. If he stays with Mercedes for 3 years and wins another title before moving on, then its a successful term in his career.

#203 P123

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 18:42

I think it is a bit early


Could be said for 99% of what has been posted in this topic.

#204 garoidb

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 18:47

Could be said for 99% of what has been posted in this topic.


True enough. I just wanted to make that particular point.

#205 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:31

I salute him for not taking the easy way out. Not many drivers would have done the same.

Thats because most drivers realize F1 is about winning, not finding a way out of something.

Would you salute me for trying to eat a steak with a spoon?

Edited by Seanspeed, 09 January 2013 - 20:33.


#206 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:35

Would you salute me for trying to eat a steak with a spoon?


I probably would, it is something that I would do, but not have any success with :drunk:

#207 SR388

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:36

This will be a tough season or two, but he needed to get a fresh start. Still for all we know Merc may have their stuff together and they could have a decent car this year.

Edited by SR388, 14 May 2014 - 12:26.


#208 garoidb

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 20:37

Thats because most drivers realize F1 is about winning, not finding a way out of something.

Would you salute me for trying to eat a steak with a spoon?


:rotfl:

#209 Szoelloe

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 21:22

Thats because most drivers realize F1 is about winning, not finding a way out of something.

Would you salute me for trying to eat a steak with a spoon?


absolutely, if it is entertaining to watch. :rotfl:

I seriously would, though, if its your first time using silverware. I would teach you to use a knife and fork eventually.

Edited by Szoelloe, 09 January 2013 - 21:36.


#210 BoschKurve

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 21:59

I don't think it is a mistake. It was his best option by far, if he really wanted to go for the MS route, and not for the opportunistic Senna route. If he really wants to improve himself this is the way to go. It is a risk, and that is what makes it respectful. Merc should be pretty solid, for all the obvious reasons that had been touched upon, even taking into account the pissoff seasons they produced so far. If it was a mistake it will be very obvious by mid-season this year, I don't think it will take three seasons to decide that.


I've had a theory that this move was more about his management trying to extend the Lewis Hamilton brand, than it was about anything else. They probably sold Lewis on this being a great idea based on financial income generated and nothing else. But, it seems like Lewis is coming to the realization that winning does matter an awful bit to him based on some of the things he has said the past couple of months. This may be the best learning experience of his career, and I hope it is as I'd hate to see someone with his ability piss it away.

#211 garoidb

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 23:09

I've had a theory that this move was more about his management trying to extend the Lewis Hamilton brand, than it was about anything else. They probably sold Lewis on this being a great idea based on financial income generated and nothing else. But, it seems like Lewis is coming to the realization that winning does matter an awful bit to him based on some of the things he has said the past couple of months. This may be the best learning experience of his career, and I hope it is as I'd hate to see someone with his ability piss it away.


Building a good brand is actually quite important for the long term too. The ideal thing would be to combine it with more sporting success, but let's not dismiss the value of promoting Lewis (or whoever) so that they can have others career(s) after racing. If Mercedes can get it together, he can have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, many (including myself) are doubtful about how quickly they can do that.

#212 maverick69

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:13

Jackie Stewart thinks it's a "risk":

"And if they don't win, they get out.

"That's the risk. If for whatever reason, they do not win, it's a five-minute board meeting decision with a bunch of people on the board who are not passionate about motorsport.

"They like the results if they win. If they don't win, it's yesterday. And that takes five minutes.

"If you were looking at it in a conservative fashion, you'd say 'I've got to stick with McLaren because I know they're always going to be racers'. They will never be out of motor racing."


And he's probably right.

The last part of his interview leaves one scratching ones head though:

Stewart also believes Hamilton's inconsistency remains a stumbling block for the 2008 F1 world champion.

"When he's on form, he is the quickest," said the legendary Scot. "But [his ability] to do it consistently is not yet there."

Is he talking about Button? :confused:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105103

Edited by maverick69, 14 January 2013 - 10:14.


#213 bauss

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:35

Stewart must channel his frustration...

#214 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:35

Jackie Stewart thinks it's a "risk":


Is he talking about Button? :confused:

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105103


He is a multiple WDC, he was a good driver and all, respect for his achievments. but I kind of agree with Mosley's view on him. He lives in his own bubble. The more senile he gets, the more he talks, and the less sense he makes. So you really shouldn't be confused, or even suprised.

#215 Risil

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:44

He is a multiple WDC, he was a good driver and all, respect for his achievments. but I kind of agree with Mosley's view on him. He lives in his own bubble. The more senile he gets, the more he talks, and the less sense he makes. So you really shouldn't be confused, or even suprised.


Maybe it's just that he's the only ex-champ who doesn't read these forums. :stoned:

Edited by Risil, 14 January 2013 - 12:44.


#216 skid solo

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 16:48

This may be the best learning experience of his career, and I hope it is as I'd hate to see someone with his ability piss it away.


He was doing that at Mclaren of late anyway with their reliability issues and horrendous pit blunders. It can't be any worse than it's been.

#217 BernieEc

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 16:53

He must have had his reasons and only God knows what Brawn and Lauda said to convince him. For the life of me though I still wonder about this move.

Did he not like it at McLaren anymore that he wanted out or did Merc dangle something that was hard to resist. all will be revealed soon.

#218 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 17:11

He was doing that at Mclaren of late anyway with their reliability issues and horrendous pit blunders. It can't be any worse than it's been.


No, he wasn't anymore IMHO


#219 skid solo

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 18:01

No, he wasn't anymore IMHO


Personally I regard 4th place in the 2012 championship a poor result for someone of Hamilton's talent and it was through no fault of his own.
Until Mclaren sort out their finger trouble he's got nothing to lose going to Mercedes. I'm actually excited to see what happens.

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#220 showtime

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 19:20

Not yet a single pic or even a reference in the web. :/

#221 garoidb

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 19:52

Not yet a single pic or even a reference in the web. :/


They are letting Lewis down! :) (Does that make me the first to say that?)


#222 Szoelloe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 19:59

They are letting Lewis down! :) (Does that make me the first to say that?)


well, no, it makes you something else. Teaser should be out some time next week, IMHO.


#223 skid solo

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 21:13

well, no, it makes you something else. Teaser should be out some time next week, IMHO.


Can you enlighten me what does IMHO stand for?


#224 jrg19

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 21:15

In my honest opinion.

Picture of his signature on a race cap posted on twitter.

#225 Risil

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 22:12

Picture of his signature on a race cap posted on twitter.


What next? Picture of the system clock on his telemetry display?

#226 dhill39

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 22:37

Thats what Lewis wanted from Mercedes,less pr days,and its already started,if he was still at Mclaren ,it would be a different story

#227 peroa

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:43

WhoTF cares about press photos? :rolleyes: :drunk:
Let them work on the car/in the simulator.

#228 MinT

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 14:27

Thats what Lewis wanted from Mercedes,less pr days,and its already started,if he was still at Mclaren ,it would be a different story


I must have somehow missed all the McLaren pr days this year - barring a couple of photos of their new driver with Whitmarsh....

#229 Brandz07

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 14:31

I must have somehow missed all the McLaren pr days this year - barring a couple of photos of their new driver with Whitmarsh....


Missed the online video chat then? :lol:

#230 Lazy

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 14:38

Yes, no, no definitely yes, no wait maybe not, but i suppose it could be, nah, but ..... oh fk it!

#231 Kvothe

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:02

A very good article on F1 fanatic on why Hamilton and Mercedes could surprise in 2013:

http://www.f1fanatic...-2013-prospects

#232 SmokeScreen

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:54

A very good article on F1 fanatic on why Hamilton and Mercedes could surprise in 2013:

http://www.f1fanatic...-2013-prospects


The majority of Mercedes’ efforts will be on getting the rear end right. There are two components: using the exhaust gasses properly – something they never really got a handle on in 2012 – and maximising airflow over the diffuser through smart component packaging and heavy sidepod undercuts.
There are rumours Mercedes has developed a ultra-small gearbox, copying Williams. I expect a few teams to go down this route as it is an obvious way to reduce blockage at the rear of the car. The challenge with a small gearbox is that the drive shafts are more steeply angled which reduces power transmitted to the wheels. But the evidence from Williams suggests this conundrum is solvable.
In addition it is thought that Mercedes will copy the Red Bull exhausts with ducting at the rear to better direct the exhaust flow. The jury is still out on whether the McLaren or Red Bull exhaust solution is best, but Mercedes struggled to emulate McLaren’s Coanda solution last year.


Useful article that points out the many cards that would have to stack up.
They need to be on the right path – in terms of design of W04 – i remain optimistic about that aspect (with all the effort noises they have been making)however even if they get that right they will probably need more time than may be available to catch up with top 3 -4 cars who will be refining their own cars (steeper development curve, teething problems with upgraded wind tunnel, team gelling and settling in of new driver etc.)

I remain optimistic for 2014 though and not cos of engines. Anything more will be an exciting bonus.


#233 jjcale

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 16:57

I'm surprised that only one journo so far has mentioned that their is a rumour about (most likely coming from Brackley) that they will have a good car next year....

#234 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 17:06

I'm surprised that only one journo so far has mentioned that their is a rumour about (most likely coming from Brackley) that they will have a good car next year....


Personally, I don't rely, or get my hopes up, on rumors anymore, as far as Merc is concerned. They should have a pretty decent car, that is nothing new. it as been said over and over again: the W04 is the first car they designed with the structure and potential they worked on for more than year npw to set up.


#235 Clatter

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 17:22

I'm surprised that only one journo so far has mentioned that their is a rumour about (most likely coming from Brackley) that they will have a good car next year....


But what about this year? ;)

I'm sure Merc have said the same the last 2 years.


#236 jjcale

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 17:24

I'm not talking about a management level/PR rumour .... this rumour is coming from a much lower level of people working at Brackley.

I am going out on a limb with this one as I dont have a direct source there anymore ... but even though its second hand I am prepared to get my hopes up ... just a little bit.

Cant wait for testing....

#237 Szoelloe

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 17:30

But what about this year?;)

I'm sure Merc have said the same the last 2 years.


They have.


#238 Juan Kerr

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 17:36

I'm surprised that only one journo so far has mentioned that their is a rumour about (most likely coming from Brackley) that they will have a good car next year....

They will have a great car at the start of the season but will it be reliable because Schumacher lost all momentum at the start of the season stopping him from ever carrying on having had great pace, secondly if they don't develop the car again then there's the problem. They produced good speed but massively under developed through the year.

#239 P123

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 17:38

They have.


Not exactly unheard of in F1. No team has ever predicted they will be worse than the year before.

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#240 moorsey

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 18:15

I'm not talking about a management level/PR rumour .... this rumour is coming from a much lower level of people working at Brackley.

I am going out on a limb with this one as I dont have a direct source there anymore ... but even though its second hand I am prepared to get my hopes up ... just a little bit.

Cant wait for testing....


I am getting similar rumours coming from close friends of my daughters who live near to Brackley.
If they have got it right it could be a very intersting season.

#241 jrg19

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 23:03

http://twitter.yfrog...cjcralnejtcslez

Looks like he's training hard.

"Skiing your doing it wrong"

Edited by jrg19, 15 January 2013 - 23:04.


#242 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:39

I'm surprised that only one journo so far has mentioned that their is a rumour about (most likely coming from Brackley) that they will have a good car next year....

A timeline of Mercedes' hopes from pre-season to November:

Posted Image

#243 TF110

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 06:10

Naysayers are just as bad as those getting their hopes up. No one knows. Just wait and hope if you're a fan of this team or a fan of Lewis. I'm both.

#244 SmokeScreen

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:45

http://formula-one.s...mula-one-title/


#245 Watkins74

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 10:57

http://formula-one.s...mula-one-title/

hmmm.....doesn't seem to be to enthusiastic about 2013.

#246 Kvothe

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:32

hmmm.....doesn't seem to be to enthusiastic about 2013.


More than likely he was playing down expectations; if their aim is to be pushing for the World championship in 2014, than regardless of any playing down coming out of either Brackley or Stuttgart, 2013 will be a very important year. They've invested a lot in attaining both the facilities and the key personnel in order for them to make a push, and if nothing else 2013 will act as a test run to see how the various constituent parts they've assembled fit and work together, and whether they have the capacity to maintain development and push until the end. I think 2013s most important impact will be psychological. What separates the winners from the losers more often than not is the self-belief that not only can you win the championship, but that you will win the championship; reduced to a few words to the difference between hesitancy and decisiveness in the face of pressure. Its a psychological edge that is important since without it even if you have the fastest car, and the fastest driver you can still lose the championship, A good example of this is Manchester United or for an F1 example Red Bull, who had the capacity to win in 2009 and win much earlier in 2010 (even in spite of reliability) yet if you were to replace the team they are now, with the team they were back down, 2012 could well have been their fourth championship on the trot, with the only real difference being the confidence and self-belief that they are winners. Despite winning as Brawn four years ago (a team that could be argued almost lost the championship), Mercedes are essentially a different team, a team which lacks such a belief, and 2013 will be pivotal in attaining it. Should 2013 be a replica of the second half of 2012, it doesn't matter how much the engine regs will suit them in 2014, they will have to rely on a greater amount of factors outside of their control with the major players all getting it wrong, and for a 2009ish year before they win it.

Even if we were present for the actual interview, I doubt we would have perceived any lack of enthusiasm, make no bones about it 2013 is essentially a make or break year for Mercedes.

Edited by Kvothe, 17 January 2013 - 12:32.


#247 SunnyENTP

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:52

http://formula-one.s...mula-one-title/



So is this thread about Lewis or Mercedes? :confused:

#248 jjcale

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 13:04

hmmm.....doesn't seem to be to enthusiastic about 2013.


The Honda board had no idea the 2009 car was gonna be a good one .... nowatimsayin'  ;)

#249 jjcale

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 13:31

http://formula-one.s...mula-one-title/


I see your Dr Z and I raise you FA

Alonso says Hamilton is still his strongest rival in Formula 1

Edited by jjcale, 17 January 2013 - 13:32.


#250 jav

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:27

Typical Mercedes, Mr, Zetsche illustrates the error of their ways by his own words...


".... He said the fact Mercedes only won a single Grand Prix between 2010 and 2012 led to "changes" for this season, including a "new driver, new chairman and more to come.
"The real problem lay with the chassis and we are working on that," admitted Zetsche.
"The coming season will probably not allow us to show the full effect of the changes, but in 2014 we will have a good shot at the championship, especially with the new engine rules," he added. "....."

He admits the real problem is the chassis... and cites replacing a chairman and a driver???? Of course we won't see a championship fight in 2013! If a flat tire is keeping you from getting to work on time, how is a new radio and wax job going to fix that???

If Lewis hadn't made this "choice" wllingly, in full light of this teams history, I'd feel sorry for him.

Edited by jav, 17 January 2013 - 15:27.