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Lewis @ Mercedes: the biggest mistake of his career?


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916 replies to this topic

Poll: Lewis Hamilton has made a terrible mistake (562 member(s) have cast votes)

You reckon?

  1. Nah man, he's gonna be great, relax (255 votes [45.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.62%

  2. He'll probably beat Rosberg, the rest is someone else's responsibility (144 votes [25.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.76%

  3. No biggie, he'll be back at Mclaren in 2016 (46 votes [8.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.23%

  4. OH SHI- (114 votes [20.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.39%

Vote

#251 Timstr11

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 15:54

Lewis Hamilton ‏@LewisHamilton
On a more positive note. The team is working ex hard to make me the best car. Have been to factory & it's great. Can't wait to go back soon



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#252 RealRacing

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:05

"The coming season will probably not allow us to show the full effect of the changes, but in 2014 we will have a good shot at the championship, especially with the new engine rules"


Where have I seen this before?

#253 jrg19

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:12

I see your Dr Z and I raise you FA

Alonso says Hamilton is still his strongest rival in Formula 1


Alonso knows the real deal.

#254 RealRacing

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:24

Alonso knows the real deal.


Not that I don´t rate Lewis among the top 3, but this seems like another samurai mind game, especially given that Lewis will probably struggle this year and, as such, not be the main rival to Samurai in 2013...


#255 jrg19

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 16:52

I think it's alonsos annual quote praising Lewis as the best in F1 besides himself.

#256 skid solo

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 20:15

Not that I don´t rate Lewis among the top 3, but this seems like another samurai mind game, especially given that Lewis will probably struggle this year and, as such, not be the main rival to Samurai in 2013...


He says It's just his personal opinion of who is the best driver in F1 apart from himself. he is qualified to say so having driven against Lewis in the same car... More qualified than any of us are..


#257 undersquare

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 16:53

I think it's alonsos annual quote praising Lewis as the best in F1 besides himself.

I can't help loving the message 'get out of Red Bull Sebi to really earn respect'. Lewis to RBR via Merc would be fine afaic.

#258 Winter98

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 17:16

I can't help loving the message 'get out of Red Bull Sebi to really earn respect'.


If that is the message, it's pretty pathetic. Do you believe for one second FA would leave a team he had just won 3 WDCs with, if he thought they gave him the best chance of winning a fourth?

Edited by Winter98, 18 January 2013 - 17:16.


#259 undersquare

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:22

If that is the message, it's pretty pathetic. Do you believe for one second FA would leave a team he had just won 3 WDCs with, if he thought they gave him the best chance of winning a fourth?

A lot of people feel that I'd say. Some people accept SV as great with his 3x wdc, but a LOT of us would see him as greater if he went to another team and won again. Who wouldn't, after all? Everyone knows how good the car is and how solid its back end is, and we all saw what happened to Sebi's dominance when it went through a period of not having that stuck-down back end.

Not that Sebi will pay too much attention, though it is all about status obviously, for all of them. We can't blame FA for wishing it, I don't think. Or LH fans for wishing it either.

Merc might go well or badly, and if it's badly then an exit clause and an RBR seat would be ideal, wouldn't it?

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#260 Risil

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:26

If that is the message, it's pretty pathetic. Do you believe for one second FA would leave a team he had just won 3 WDCs with, if he thought they gave him the best chance of winning a fourth?


Perhaps Vettel wants the assurance of driving for a team that's in F1 for the longterm.

#261 BernieEc

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 18:38

I think it's alonsos annual quote praising Lewis as the best in F1 besides himself.


sort of like the Queens annual Speech....same ole stuff.

kindness to all mankind, World Peace, the kids are the future blah blah blah............

#262 LarsB

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 19:47

Anyone seen this vid?
Lewis' last laps - for now - in a McLaren F1-car.
Action starts at 8.00 min..

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=pTs4okgygLE


#263 F1Johnny

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 22:36

Not that I don´t rate Lewis among the top 3, but this seems like another samurai mind game, especially given that Lewis will probably struggle this year and, as such, not be the main rival to Samurai in 2013...


So how many times does he have to say it before it becomes a genuine statement?

#264 TF110

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:16

It's the same people saying the same things. Alonso to them is just playing mind games, or some other excuse they can come up with. He must be lying or saying it for his health to these guys. They can't admit it when someone they don't rate is rated by the guy they rate.;)

#265 boldhakka

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 14:31

Alonso seems to be under the misguided impression that the other drivers are driving to prove who is the best ("strongest"). It says so much that he is the only driver who addresses this issue, whether asked directly or not.

But his comments are fair and difficult to disagree with.

#266 Skinnyguy

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 15:21

So how many times does he have to say it before it becomes a genuine statement?


In 2008, after his 2007 war with Hamilton, he rated Räikkönen above him.
In 2011, after Hamilton and Vettel emerged in 2010 as the other two top guys he´d have to fight, he rated Schumacher above them.
For 2012, and even more now, after Vettel´s 3rd consecutive WDC, he rates Hamilton above him.

It´ll become genuine when he makes up his mind and stop playing mind games downplaying whoever emerges as his closest rival. :lol:

#267 boldhakka

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 16:59

In 2008, after his 2007 war with Hamilton, he rated Räikkönen above him.


When did that happen, is there a quote of some sort?

#268 moorsey

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 16:39

Lewis' success rate might end up hingeing on how well he gets on with Toto Wolff??????

#269 dhill39

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 17:46

I don't think any results are going to happen with Lewis and Mercedes right now,too many changes going on at the moment,if the wolf thing is true,not a settle team at the moment,every pasting day,I am feeling more and more for Lewis that it's not going to work out,time will tell.

Edited by dhill39, 20 January 2013 - 17:47.


#270 bourbon

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 18:22

A lot of people feel that I'd say. Some people accept SV as great with his 3x wdc, but a LOT of us would see him as greater if he went to another team and won again.


But that is a failure on your part - and I wouldn't try to drag a LOT of people in with you. I think most people see the logical fallacy in what you propose, seeing as it blatantly asks a driver to take their eye off of the goal of F1 (winning WDCs) to appease non-fans.

Who wouldn't, after all?


Anyone thinking logically.

Everyone knows how good the car is and how solid its back end is, and we all saw what happened to Sebi's dominance when it went through a period of not having that stuck-down back end.


Precisely - and he still won the championship - so there is your example of him being in 'not the best car' for him, a good part of the season, and still pulling out the WDC.

Normally there is little point in responding to this type of statement. However, it is absolutely spot on for this thread.

You will see that when Lewis gets into performance difficulties at Merc, people will illogically start "falscisms" - these are the opposite of truisms, where something false is said so often, people start to irrationally believe it to be true. The question for Lewis will be whether he is mentally strong enough to ignore it. Seb does - he hasn't changed teams, teammates or left Newey. Will Lewis stand up under a simliar barrage of nonsense?

In the past, Lewis has admitted that falscims and other nonsense does bother him - because the comments are unfair. However, stepping away from Macca gives him a great chance to mature and with that comes learning to ignore extraenous nonsense that distracts one's focus and takes one's eye from the ball. He has gotten better at doing this, imo.

It is inevitable that things will be said, falscims created based on Merc's likely less than stellar performance, an example might be: "Lewis clearly is inept at providing feedback or the car would be vastly improved by now" - and the like. Lewis will have to have the strength to shrug it off, especially if pundits and commentators join in and try to give the statements credibility. It is all too real; look at this thread - he hasn't even stepped foot in the car and already the OP speculates on his possible massive failure at Merc.

Edited by bourbon, 20 January 2013 - 18:53.


#271 garoidb

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 18:28

Alonso seems to be under the misguided impression that the other drivers are driving to prove who is the best ("strongest"). It says so much that he is the only driver who addresses this issue, whether asked directly or not.


What did you think they were trying to do?

#272 bourbon

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 18:32

What did you think they were trying to do?


Win the WDC. That you have to ask...

#273 Risil

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 18:34

Do you think Vettel's happy that people are saying "Oh, yeah, you won the championship, but Alonso was the better driver"?

Edited by Risil, 20 January 2013 - 18:34.


#274 bourbon

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 18:39

Do you think Vettel's happy that people are saying "Oh, yeah, you won the championship, but Alonso was the better driver"?


He considers the source. Pundits, commentators and his fans are not saying that. Most other fans are not either. That some fans on BBs say it repeatedly does not make it more meaningful, believable or accurate - obviously he does not allow it to bother him (like most drivers). One of the biggest reasons is that he realizes it never ends. If Alonso quit, they would say the same thing using some other driver.

Is he happy that such fans exist? Of course. F1 exists for fans, like all sports. That is what I was alluding to above. Hamilton will have to take negative comments with a grain of salt because they will always exist and in the end, fans drive the sport, no matter how illogical and nonsensical we are at times.

Edited by bourbon, 20 January 2013 - 18:45.


#275 as65p

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 18:48

He considers the source. Pundits, commentators and his fans are not saying that. Most other fans are not either. That some fans on country connected BBs say it is highly suspect, and being intelligent, he obviously does not allow it to bother him. One of the biggest reasons is that he realizes it never ends. If Alonso quit, they would say the same thing using some other driver.


Simply not true. Take a look at, for one prominent example, the 2012 ratings from the Autosport staff.

Of course you won't agree, and neither do you have to, but the fact is that many pundits and commentators are rating Alonso over Vettel.

#276 bourbon

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 19:26

Simply not true. Take a look at, for one prominent example, the 2012 ratings from the Autosport staff.

Of course you won't agree, and neither do you have to, but the fact is that many pundits and commentators are rating Alonso over Vettel.


Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought Risil was asking if Seb was made unhappy by taunting ("Oh, yeah, you won the championship, but Alonso was the better driver!").

I think you are asking if Seb is unhappy that everyone in all of motorsports did not agree that he was the greatest driver on the season? I answered that too, but not in response to Risil's question. Seb's ego isn't overblown - and he himself has stated that Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, and Button (all of the competitive champions) merited acolades for their performance in 2012. He also took the time to especially praise Alonso's performance at the F1 GALA while accepting his award. So to that question I would answer: no, he is not unhappy that everyone doesn't agree he is the greatest.

Even if it is not the WDC that Hamilton will be focused on throughout the season - let's say the Merc's performance tops off before season's end as it has to date - he is still going to have to show that same kind of aplomb. Ignore that which is of little importance (fan/commentator/co-driver comments) and keep his eye on the ball (improving performance).

Being the "strongest" driver is a stupid sideshow challenge - as is dragging slow cars to podium, or being the best non WDC winning driver on the season, beating a teammate - put a tent on that circus of challenges as proposed by fans, pundits, Alonso or anyone else. None of that matters at all. Hamilton's focus needs to remain on the ball.

Edited by bourbon, 20 January 2013 - 21:34.


#277 garoidb

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 20:13

What did you think they were trying to do?


Win the WDC. That you have to ask...


While winning a WDC is probably the career goal of most racing drivers, the top five guys in F1 have already done that. Obviously those same guys will want to win the 2013 WDC. The question is ... why? It is very important, and I have often made that point. But why do guys who have won it before want to win it again?

I suggest that is to establish evidence of their worth relative to each other. Fundamentally, the WDC is there to allow drivers to fight to show they are the best. It is not a perfect means of doing that, of course.

#278 bourbon

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 21:30

While winning a WDC is probably the career goal of most racing drivers, the top five guys in F1 have already done that. Obviously those same guys will want to win the 2013 WDC. The question is ... why? It is very important, and I have often made that point. But why do guys who have won it before want to win it again?

I suggest that is to establish evidence of their worth relative to each other. Fundamentally, the WDC is there to allow drivers to fight to show they are the best. It is not a perfect means of doing that, of course.


Well as you have pointed out yourself, the goal is to 'win it again'. The goal is not to be thought of as the "strongest" driver on the grid by one's peers and the paddock, while losing the WDC.

The bottom line is that Hamilton needs to remain focused on the goal - improve the performance of the Merc with Nico so that they can challenge for race wins and ultimately the WDC. Everything else, positive or negative, is just a distraction.

#279 garoidb

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 21:37

Well as you have pointed out yourself, the goal is to 'win it again'. The goal is not to be thought of as the "strongest" driver on the grid by one's peers and the paddock, while losing the WDC.


The goal is to win as many as possible, and through that, be considered the best of your time. Nobody wins them all, and performances in non-winning years do also contribute to whether you are considered the best of your era.

The bottom line is that Hamilton needs to remain focused on the goal - improve the performance of the Merc with Nico so that they can challenge for race wins and ultimately the WDC. Everything else, positive or negative, is just a distraction.


Yes, obviously. That is his job, and he will be judged on how well he does it.

Edited by garoidb, 20 January 2013 - 21:37.


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#280 boldhakka

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 03:09

The goal is to win as many as possible, and through that, be considered the best of your time.


Only the first part is universally true in sports, the second part, not so much. .

#281 klyster

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:11

Yeah, ask Lance Armstrong.....

#282 silversurf3r

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:11

Few rumours floating around on Twitter from SportsBild that Lewis Hamilton is to make his first official appearance as a Mercedes driver today at the teams factory. Not heard this confirmed anywhere else yet tho....

#283 as65p

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:22

I think you are asking if Seb is unhappy that everyone in all of motorsports did not agree that he was the greatest driver on the season?


Not really. I was just correcting your claim that motorsport experts don't rate Alonsos 2012 season higher than Vettels, by providing a link where they do just that.

Aside from that, I unfortunately can't read the minds of Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton or any other driver, so I don't know how they feel about such things.

#284 garoidb

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:38

The goal is to win as many as possible, and through that, be considered the best of your time.


Only the first part is universally true in sports, the second part, not so much. .


Well, that is my opinion and it is different from yours. I have nothing else to say on this strand of the discussion, so I will leave it there.

#285 D.M.N.

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 17:20

Posts removed, back to the thread topic, as I reminder, the OP is below:

Lewis Hamilton and his management dropped some very obvious hints this summer about his leaving Mclaren for The Team Formerly Known As BAR. Many seasoned journos, most prominent among them Joe Saward, admitted they'd heard all the stories but refused to believe them on account of their illogicality.

Racing vulcans, you've got a lot to learn about Lewis.

In his defence, if Lewis had announced the deal this time last year -- Alonso-to-Mclaren style -- after Mercedes's first half-season we'd have been praising his shrewdness. A technical structure is being put in place: remember the last time the team planned long-term? Resulted in six wins and a world championship for Hamilton's old teammate, Jenson Button. Add in full backing of Mercedes's engine concern at a time when powerplant- and car-builders are collaborating more closely than ever, and the sort of cheque that'll allow Hamilton to start a career in music never worry about his future again, the thing kinda makes sense.

After all, if it does all go tits-up, with $100m in the bank he'll be able to drive for his next team for free.

Besides, Hamilton doesn't drive well when he's unhappy: he used to tell us that every week and then crash out or lose to Button to prove it. If his inner lights say "Go west, young man", then that's what'll keep him motivated and successful. Once the Mercedes deal was signed and announced, Hamilton became the quickest and most error-free driver on the grid.

On the other hand, he's abandoning his best chance for a world championship since 2008 to drive for a team that struggled to score a point after the European races. There's clearly a bit of psychological dragon-slaying in Hamilton's decision.

For the neutrals? Hamilton can drive a bad car really, really well. Expect pyrotechnics. He and Rosberg would be an intriguing pairing even if they were driving Caterhams. And there's the chance of some meltdowns, drama and Twitter Irresponsibility along the way. Because he's a naive little waif whose racer's self-belief seems to rest on the idea that no one could possibly dislike him.

Discuss...



#286 MightyMoose

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 18:39

Please note:

This is emphatically not the thread to place any photos taken today or subsequently featuring LH in "Mercedes" apparel etc.

The OP is clear as to the outline of the thread content, and now 2 moderators have re-directed conversation that way.

Please don't derail existing threads with the idea that it can be converted into a driver discussion.

Thanks.

#287 f1fastestlap

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 18:41

Please note:

This is emphatically not the thread to place any photos taken today or subsequently featuring LH in "Mercedes" apparel etc.


So what do you suggest?
Create a new thread?

#288 MightyMoose

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 18:54

So what do you suggest?
Create a new thread?

Well this from the RC rules " Threads can still be started to discuss issues affecting a single driver, but this must be with a specific remit or point of discussion, such as the possibility of them racing in a particular series or team." covers it vaguely.

Worth noting this is Racing Comments, not "Hello" or any other celebrity magazine, so it's not got much wiggle room.

#289 f1fastestlap

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 18:57

Well this from the RC rules " Threads can still be started to discuss issues affecting a single driver, but this must be with a specific remit or point of discussion, such as the possibility of them racing in a particular series or team." covers it vaguely.

Worth noting this is Racing Comments, not "Hello" or any other celebrity magazine, so it's not got much wiggle room.

Ok. Thanks.

#290 Kvothe

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:51

Lewis interview on his Mercedes deal:

http://www.bild.de/s...95120.bild.html

some key quotes, google translated obviously.:

You will get 75 million over three years. Did you go just for the money to Mercedes?
Hamilton: "Make time, a survey in the paddock. Anyone would tell you that he would go for nothing Formula 1. But you can not tell your boss, and it's nonsense. Money is part of life. But my decision was not money driven, I wanted to be part of something that grows. Also, I had be another offer that would have given me more money. So, "No!


Did predecessor Schumacher given tips on the way?
Hamilton: "Michael gave me a farewell on his helmet! In Abu Dhabi I went to him and asked him if we can swap helmets. As with the footballers is a respect for evidence. He really did it! I keep his helmet on in my home in Monaco. "


Also interesting last two lines.

Edited by Kvothe, 21 January 2013 - 22:51.


#291 SR388

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 22:58

I think if McLaren is terrible over the next few years Lewis will look awful smart, even if the Merc isn't great.

#292 Mc_Silver

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 23:05

I think if McLaren is terrible over the next few years Lewis will look awful smart, even if the Merc isn't great.


Strong words from you, let's wait and see who will look awful smart :wave:

#293 SR388

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 23:13

Strong words from you, let's wait and see who will look awful smart :wave:



Hey there is no way to know until we get some races under our belt, but given McLaren's lack of recent championships, who can blame him for taking more money to not win a championship. Trading money for results only works if you are actually getting results.

I also think regardless of how Merc performs, Lewis can make this move a good one depending on how he acts. He is already the most scrutinized driver in the sport, so if he can play nice, drive hard, and avoid media gaffes, he will be fine.


Who am I kidding. The media will find something to complain about when it comes to Lewis.

#294 study

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 23:32

Strong words from you, let's wait and see who will look awful smart :wave:


It doesn't matter if McLaren are awesome or not, the car was amongst the best this year and what happened, and top cock, no, scratch that, it was actually harder for them to finish as low as they did as it would have being to win.
Unless Whitmarsh, was doing to hamper Lewis, do you suddenly seeing them changing okay that to run an effiecient team? or will it be more "in hindsight"


#295 boldhakka

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 16:47

If Lowe does move to Merc, this will be an incredibly smart move by Lewis. Even if Lowe doesn't, it's beginning to look like Lewis will have an exciting time over the next few years.

New F1 "Dream Team"?

#296 MinT

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:20

, but given McLaren's lack of recent championships, who can blame him for taking more money to not win a championship.


Well according to Hami he "lives to win" - therefore a move from a team that gave him several wins per year to a team that looked very far away from a win last season would suggest (if you take him at his word) that quite a few people would have grounds for querying the logic of his decision

#297 F1ultimate

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:27

Well according to Hami he "lives to win" - therefore a move from a team that gave him several wins per year to a team that looked very far away from a win last season would suggest (if you take him at his word) that quite a few people would have grounds for querying the logic of his decision


He will get more life experience and fullfillment in help building Mercedes to become a multiple grand prix winning team than sticking with a team that continually challenge for WDC and WCC but bottle it.



#298 pRy

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:43

According to Ted Kravitz, the deal was sealed over text message at Singapore between Lauda and Lewis. Not sure if to laugh or cry.

#299 Risil

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:45

a move from a team that gave him several wins per year to a team that looked very far away from a win last season


Except in China, where it was the opposition that looked very far away from them.

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#300 Mc_Silver

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 17:52

I feel Lewis will come back to McLaren after a few years in Mercedes

Edited by Mc_Silver, 22 January 2013 - 17:52.