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Lewis @ Mercedes: the biggest mistake of his career?


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Poll: Lewis Hamilton has made a terrible mistake (562 member(s) have cast votes)

You reckon?

  1. Nah man, he's gonna be great, relax (255 votes [45.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.62%

  2. He'll probably beat Rosberg, the rest is someone else's responsibility (144 votes [25.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.76%

  3. No biggie, he'll be back at Mclaren in 2016 (46 votes [8.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.23%

  4. OH SHI- (114 votes [20.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.39%

Vote

#351 slmk

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 20:34

Wow. I had completely forgot about him.

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#352 jrg19

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 20:34

So it was M.Schumacher?

#353 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 20:39

So it was M.Schumacher?

Yes, I believe the correct answer is Michael Schumacher.

#354 jrg19

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 20:40

Yes, I believe the correct answer is Michael Schumacher.


:up: Michael not Ralf incase anyone is confused.

#355 OoxLox

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 22:00

Oh come on folks. The Merc was fast in testing and in the flyaway races last season and look what happened as the year went on. OK this season is very different for a lot of reasons, but an awful lot is being read into some fast low fuel runs of the type no other team but Ferrari have done, and we don't even know what fuel Massa had in today when he was doing his S/SS runs.

It's way too soon to be talking about either Merc driver having a realistic shot at the WDC.

#356 apoka

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 22:55

Oh come on folks. The Merc was fast in testing and in the flyaway races last season and look what happened as the year went on. OK this season is very different for a lot of reasons, but an awful lot is being read into some fast low fuel runs of the type no other team but Ferrari have done, and we don't even know what fuel Massa had in today when he was doing his S/SS runs.

It's way too soon to be talking about either Merc driver having a realistic shot at the WDC.

It really depends on where you come from. If you supported Merc over the past 3 years, then even having a car which is not completely off the pace of the front runners would be a welcome change (yes I know they won a race, but that didn't change the usual scenario of not being competitive on Sunday) and the testing results indicate that this could be the case.

#357 mattferg

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:38

Button is a threat driving a McLaren, so I would not count him out. He might not win the title but with a decent reliable car I won't be surprised if he's a contender. A McLaren can win races for sure.


I fixed this for you :)

#358 jjcale

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 00:50

I am getting similar rumours coming from close friends of my daughters who live near to Brackley.
If they have got it right it could be a very intersting season.


Turned out to have been right ...

#359 jonpollak

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:24

Risil started this thread....
:rotfl:
Jp

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#360 Juggles

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 01:50

Oh come on folks. The Merc was fast in testing and in the flyaway races last season and look what happened as the year went on. OK this season is very different for a lot of reasons, but an awful lot is being read into some fast low fuel runs of the type no other team but Ferrari have done, and we don't even know what fuel Massa had in today when he was doing his S/SS runs.

It's way too soon to be talking about either Merc driver having a realistic shot at the WDC.


I have to agree. I think at most people can talk about being at the sharp end for the first few races, because if they don't keep pace in the development race they will fall behind pretty quickly.

I also think the regulation changes in 2014 will be a bigger distraction for Mercedes than other teams: they have talked about their potential advantage in 2014 so much while playing down expectation in 2013, so there will be a lot of pressure to switch all focus to 2014 even if one of their drivers is keeping pace in the 2013 championship fight after a fair few races.

In answer to the thread title, it could go one of several ways. The team Mercedes is building could come good and Hamilton could have the opportunity to win the championship with two different teams, in doing so becoming a legend. Mercedes could perform well enough to win races but not really challenge for championships over the next few seasons; given that is the exact position he was in at McLaren and he is no longer a robotic serf tied to the kingdom of Woking then I think he has come out ahead. If the usual trend of Mercedes continues, i.e. producing a quick car at first before getting hopelessly lost on their development path (or simply not being able to keep pace with the massive spending and technical nous of teams like Red Bull), then it will have been a brave gamble but a failure, particularly if McLaren is cleaning up in the championships.

That said, it sounds like he wasn't enjoying himself at McLaren anymore and seeing the slightly tasteless way they dealt with the Hamilton and Lowe departures (explicitly suggesting both were purely about money) I'm glad he's left.

#361 BigCHrome

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 02:48

Once again, 2012 was the only year when Merc's development was horrible.

#362 Jimisgod

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:08

Once again, 2012 was the only year when Merc's development was horrible.


that is true, but they were regular podium getters at the start of 2010 and fell back in the second half.

#363 BigCHrome

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:17

Rosberg had a few wet induced podiums in the beginning of the season. The car was always fast in the wet - Rosberg was ahead of Hamilton in Korea when Webber torpedoed him while aiming for Hamilton. The only other podium that he got that was in the dry was in Silverstone, where Vettel had a puncture and Alonso got a drive-through penalty.

#364 OO7

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:20

Rosberg was ahead of Hamilton in Korea when Webber torpedoed him while aiming for Hamilton.

:lol:

#365 slmk

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 03:21

Rosberg had a few wet induced podiums in the beginning of the season. The car was always fast in the wet - Rosberg was ahead of Hamilton in Korea when Webber torpedoed him while aiming for Hamilton. The only other podium that he got that was in the dry was in Silverstone, where Vettel had a puncture and Alonso got a drive-through penalty.


That was the year of the short wheelbase / long wheelbase fiasco.

#366 Juggles

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:08

Once again, 2012 was the only year when Merc's development was horrible.


Absolutely, but there is surely something in between development being "horrible" and development being at a comparable level to Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari?

I don't expect Mercedes' development to be horrible; it may even be fantastic. I'm just saying testing pace only tells us about where they might stand in the first few races. What happens after that is up to their hard work and innovation.

#367 ChiltonsCats

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:14

expecting him to do fairly well, a few podiums perhaps is the best he can hope for though this season.

#368 jstrains

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 05:42

Hamilton shocks the rest

"Hamilton schockt die Konkurrenz"
http://www.auto-moto...er-6734470.html

http://f1grandprix.m...2_03_2013_4.jpg
Posted Image

Edited by jstrains, 03 March 2013 - 05:44.


#369 garoidb

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 09:47

In answer to the thread title, it could go one of several ways. The team Mercedes is building could come good and Hamilton could have the opportunity to win the championship with two different teams, in doing so becoming a legend. Mercedes could perform well enough to win races but not really challenge for championships over the next few seasons; given that is the exact position he was in at McLaren and he is no longer a robotic serf tied to the kingdom of Woking then I think he has come out ahead. If the usual trend of Mercedes continues, i.e. producing a quick car at first before getting hopelessly lost on their development path (or simply not being able to keep pace with the massive spending and technical nous of teams like Red Bull), then it will have been a brave gamble but a failure, particularly if McLaren is cleaning up in the championships.


If we attach so much importance to winning the WDC with two different teams, then it is worth noting that Alonso, Raikkonen and Button also have a chance to do that next year.

#370 Juggles

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:12

If we attach so much importance to winning the WDC with two different teams, then it is worth noting that Alonso, Raikkonen and Button also have a chance to do that next year.


No arguments from me on that one. It's a great achievement whoever does it.

#371 garoidb

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:41

No arguments from me on that one. It's a great achievement whoever does it.


Yes, and there is quite a good chance of it happening next year. Only Vettel is in the same team with which he won his WDCs. Past champions to achieve this include Schumacher (as noted above), Prost, Piquet, Lauda, Fittipaldi, G Hill, Brabham and Fangio.

#372 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 10:44

expecting him to do fairly well, a few podiums perhaps is the best he can hope for though this season.

Well, if we look at how the competition is reacting to Mercedes' pace we can expect Lewis to finish top five in the championship at least, if Mercedes can keep the development rate up.

#373 Juggles

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:34

Yes, and there is quite a good chance of it happening next year. Only Vettel is in the same team with which he won his WDCs. Past champions to achieve this include Schumacher (as noted above), Prost, Piquet, Lauda, Fittipaldi, G Hill, Brabham and Fangio.


Ach, that peskily large "only."

I do think the number of teams you achieve your championships with should be taken into account. Schumacher is quite a good example; I think by the end his Ferrari championships were slightly bleeding into one another and suffering from the law of diminishing returns. I wonder if fans consider his two championships with Benetton more, less or just as impressive as his five championships with Ferrari.

#374 Arion

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:40

If we attach so much importance to winning the WDC with two different teams, then it is worth noting that Alonso, Raikkonen and Button also have a chance to do that next year.


I don't get this winning with different teams thing either, Senna won all his titles with the same team, people rate him higher than some others who have won wdc with different teams. Sometimes they just happened to be at the right place at the right time.



#375 garoidb

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 11:53

I don't get this winning with different teams thing either, Senna won all his titles with the same team, people rate him higher than some others who have won wdc with different teams. Sometimes they just happened to be at the right place at the right time.


Let's not go off track talking about Senna. Very few would doubt that he could have won in another team, and most likely would have done so.

As far as I can remember, the fact that Alonso (particularly), Button and Raikkonen (in 2012) were competing to win an additional WDC in a second team was not particularly emphasised in the last few years. Maybe it would seem like a bigger deal if Hamilton managed it.

Edited by garoidb, 03 March 2013 - 11:53.


#376 Arion

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:11

Let's not go off track talking about Senna. Very few would doubt that he could have won in another team, and most likely would have done so.

As far as I can remember, the fact that Alonso (particularly), Button and Raikkonen (in 2012) were competing to win an additional WDC in a second team was not particularly emphasised in the last few years. Maybe it would seem like a bigger deal if Hamilton managed it.


my impression is that schumarcher's fans like to attach extra importance to it, not so much the other fans. But his case involved switching from a successful team to a team that's down at the time. That's different from Prost joining Williams. It's only a big deal if the driver commit several years of his career to bringing a midfield team to the top.



#377 P123

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 12:21

Let's not go off track talking about Senna. Very few would doubt that he could have won in another team, and most likely would have done so.

As far as I can remember, the fact that Alonso (particularly), Button and Raikkonen (in 2012) were competing to win an additional WDC in a second team was not particularly emphasised in the last few years. Maybe it would seem like a bigger deal if Hamilton managed it.


Not really. Although one of the bones of contention for the Hamilton critics was that he had to leave McLaren to prove himself, so perhaps it will be a bigger deal to the likes of yourself if he does manage it?

#378 garoidb

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 13:01

Not really. Although one of the bones of contention for the Hamilton critics was that he had to leave McLaren to prove himself, so perhaps it will be a bigger deal to the likes of yourself if he does manage it?


Not really. I never said he should leave McLaren.

#379 Grundle

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 17:19

Looking at how things are changing, had Lewis signed with McLaren, people would be calling him a major bottle job right now. It's looking like the right move
1 million percent correct.
It's amazing, because people were saying he was CRAZY going to Merc
The only crazy ones are those without foresight, to think things never change in f1.


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#380 MinT

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 17:24

Looking at how things are changing, had Lewis signed with McLaren, people would be calling him a major bottle job right now. It's looking like the right move
1 million percent correct.
It's amazing, because people were saying he was CRAZY going to Merc
The only crazy ones are those without foresight, to think things never change in f1.


I think maybe you should wait until the season starts before starting the gloating.

#381 OO7

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 17:35

It really is too early to judge in my opinion. However I very much doubt it will be 'the biggest mistake of his career'.

#382 Grundle

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 17:43

I think maybe you should wait until the season starts before starting the gloating.

I think others should have waited till testing started before gladly predicting a dog.


#383 jjcale

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 17:47

I think others should have waited till testing started before gladly predicting a dog.

HArd to believe that so many made such a basic error ....

#384 undersquare

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 17:54

There's always something to wait for, but so far - happier AND faster :up:

I'm still on course with my feeling he'll finish ahead of JB.

#385 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 18:01

It might be that the biggest mistake of Hamilton's career was meeting Ron Dennis when he was 10 years old.

#386 BernieEc

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 18:06

It might be that the biggest mistake of Hamilton's career was meeting Ron Dennis when he was 10 years old.


would have been better if he met Dietrich Mateschitz :)

#387 krea

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:02

It might be that the biggest mistake of Hamilton's career was meeting Ron Dennis when he was 10 years old.


wow :rolleyes:

He won a WDC because of this meeting and just lost one because of some unlucky moments.

#388 Coral

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:59

There's always something to wait for, but so far - happier AND faster :up:

I'm still on course with my feeling he'll finish ahead of JB.

:up:

I too think Lewis will finish ahead of JB...in fact I reckon he will finish the season ahead of both McLarens. That would be too funny for words. ;) :p

#389 MirNyet

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 20:56

wow :rolleyes:

He won a WDC because of this meeting and just lost one because of some unlucky moments.


Some would argue he lost 3 because of some bad luck :)

#390 krea

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 22:19

Some would argue he lost 3 because of some bad luck :)


What bad luck?

#391 Juggles

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:30

:up:

I too think Lewis will finish ahead of JB...in fact I reckon he will finish the season ahead of both McLarens. That would be too funny for words.;) :p


I don't think he'll beat Button in the standings. Over the season I think McLaren will pull away from Mercedes and be the main rivals to Red Bull again, even if Mercedes is indeed on par or ahead of McLaren at the start. I think where Hamilton finishes compared to Perez could be the closer and more interesting head to head. Of course they could both be ahead of Button!

#392 Juggles

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:39

Some would argue he lost 3 because of some bad luck :)


I don't think anyone would say he lost 2007 through bad luck, mainly because his car was bulletproof. He had bad luck in the last couple of races but that came after an implausibly perfect season.

2010 he had similar bad luck to other top drivers and much less than Vettel. To my mind Hamilton was the most consistent driver that year but it wasn't bad luck that cost him the championship, it was driving a car that wasn't fast enough to leave any margin for error and (understandably and perhaps inevitably) making that error in Monza.

2012 was undoubtedly lost to bad luck. He lost far more than his rivals (plus they gained a lot from his constant mishaps) and you can genuinely count the number of clean weekends he had on one hand.

So it's only one really.

#393 BigCHrome

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:31

Absolutely, but there is surely something in between development being "horrible" and development being at a comparable level to Red Bull, McLaren and Ferrari?

I don't expect Mercedes' development to be horrible; it may even be fantastic. I'm just saying testing pace only tells us about where they might stand in the first few races. What happens after that is up to their hard work and innovation.


Obviously horrible was an exaggeration, anyway the gap between them at the beginning and end in 2010 and 2011 stayed similar.

I don't think anyone would say he lost 2007 through bad luck, mainly because his car was bulletproof. He had bad luck in the last couple of races but that came after an implausibly perfect season.

2010 he had similar bad luck to other top drivers and much less than Vettel. To my mind Hamilton was the most consistent driver that year but it wasn't bad luck that cost him the championship, it was driving a car that wasn't fast enough to leave any margin for error and (understandably and perhaps inevitably) making that error in Monza.

2012 was undoubtedly lost to bad luck. He lost far more than his rivals (plus they gained a lot from his constant mishaps) and you can genuinely count the number of clean weekends he had on one hand.

So it's only one really.


In 2007 he had tire/wheel troubles in Turkey/Germany and obviously the gearbox glitch in Brazil so it's not like he never had anything happen to the car.

#394 Reinmuster

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 05:47

It might be that the biggest mistake of Hamilton's career was meeting Ron Dennis when he was 10 years old.


Perhaps his biggest mistake was challenging Alonso in 2007. Though I think he have every right to showed his speed.




#395 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:22

Doesnt look very much like a mistake now.

#396 Kingshark

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 04:26

Take it easy with the conclusions, though based on FP1 Mercedes do seem a bit better than McLaren.

#397 bonjon1979a

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 05:26

Take it easy with the conclusions, though based on FP1 Mercedes do seem a bit better than McLaren.


yeah, i think a few pundits and fans may be eating their words...

#398 bonjon1979a

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:25

Ahem. Mclaren look like struggling for q3, merc on for second row, best decision of hamiltons career?? Mac have messed up too many times recently, they're calamitous and I'm glad Lewis had the courage of his convictions and left.

#399 LaoTze

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 09:58

Ahem. Mclaren look like struggling for q3, merc on for second row, best decision of hamiltons career?? Mac have messed up too many times recently, they're calamitous and I'm glad Lewis had the courage of his convictions and left.


:up:

McLaren has made it a habit to screw up

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#400 Bartonz20let

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 10:02

Well if Merc can continue to progress as they have over the last 3 months Lewis could have made a very smart move, can't see him being anywhere near Seb at the end if the season but I can't see past Seb as WDC.

The difference from McLaren to the other 4 seems to have grown not got smaller since testing so what's left of my support for McLaren worries for them.

Another interesting chapter in the Lewis Hamilton saga