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Robert Kubica's road to recovery


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#451 MadYarpen

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 12:35

And the reason for this is limited elbow rotation, which makes it impossible for him to drive around tight circuits - according to RK himself, I believe.

Edited by MadYarpen, 12 July 2013 - 12:38.


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#452 DrProzac

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 19:39

I guess he got the number from the Mercedes simulator tests. He could test on each and every F1 circuit.

The issue is the same as before: limited mobility -> the need to operate the right hand in a different way than usual -> not enough space in an F1 car's cockpit to fully do it.

I guess it's not a big issue on 80% of the track, but on 20% it's still is. Did Robert say it improved recently, or am I mistaken?

#453 MadYarpen

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 20:58

He keeps saying that there is a progress, but IIRC he isn't referring explicitly to F1.

#454 cravenciak

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 16:02

Cotswold Lodge Hotel
"Today we say goodbye to Mr Robert Kubica, we hope you enjoyed your stay with us and thank you for being gracious enough to sign a few authographs. Hope to see you back again in the future "


Brackley, if you know what I mean.

#455 Muppetmad

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 16:09

Cotswold Lodge Hotel
"Today we say goodbye to Mr Robert Kubica, we hope you enjoyed your stay with us and thank you for being gracious enough to sign a few authographs. Hope to see you back again in the future "


Brackley, if you know what I mean.


Haha, interesting... I wonder what's going on, perhaps more simulator work?

#456 cravenciak

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 16:58

I bet.

#457 BRG

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 18:03

Cotswold Lodge Hotel
"Today we say goodbye to Mr Robert Kubica, we hope you enjoyed your stay with us and thank you for being gracious enough to sign a few authographs. Hope to see you back again in the future "

Brackley, if you know what I mean.

Brackley? Then why stay in a small midrange 4 star hotel in the back streets of Oxford, over 20 miles away? More likely, he is trying to get into Oxford University as a mature student.

#458 cravenciak

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 18:40

He would get too much attention in Brackley. And 20 miles is nothing...

#459 xflow7

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 19:26

Brackley? Then why stay in a small midrange 4 star hotel in the back streets of Oxford, over 20 miles away? More likely, he is trying to get into Oxford University as a mature student.


Okay. How about Grove? A bit closer in the other direction. :stoned: :lol:

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#460 BRG

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 21:36

He would get too much attention in Brackley. And 20 miles is nothing...

Ah, so it was a stealth trip then? He would have done better to stay in Brackley then, rather than in a tourist trap like Oxford. But of course it is equally as inconvenient for Enstone, Grove and Milton Keynes, as for Brackley. Or for Banbury (for Prodrive, for his new rally career.....). Or he was there for some other reason, like following the Inspector Morse Trail.

Edited by BRG, 24 July 2013 - 21:37.


#461 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 21:38

He would get too much attention in Brackley.


From who? All the Poles?

#462 cravenciak

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 08:43

it was a stealth trip then?


He's testing for Mercedes in Brackley for few months at least and still no one saw him there. This is how it works.

#463 zawisza

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 09:15

Okay. How about Grove? A bit closer in the other direction. :stoned: :lol:


Funny indeed. Brackley or Grove? Impossible to guess especially if you're referring to http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22395082

#464 Muppetmad

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 15:17

http://www.youtube.c...3C4RxniQz4#t=37

 

Courtesy of Sukhoi - an interesting comment there regarding next year. Thoughts?



#465 MadYarpen

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 15:29

http://www.youtube.c...3C4RxniQz4#t=37

 

Courtesy of Sukhoi - an interesting comment there regarding next year. Thoughts?

 

TBH he is just repeating the same line regarding next year ;)



#466 Uwe

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 15:53

http://www.youtube.c...3C4RxniQz4#t=37

 

Courtesy of Sukhoi - an interesting comment there regarding next year. Thoughts?

 

I'd love to see Kubica back in F1. But considering the way he was moving and carefully protecting his right arm from movement 2.5 years after the crash I think his F1 career is done. Really sad.



#467 Sukhoi

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 16:24

set aside his movement/health issues.. Robert is clearly aiming for F1 comeback in next season.

 

I can't really think of any other "circuit" series, in which he couldn't start already this year... (DTM offer rejected)

 

a big relief for me..(and I guess big worry for rally fans  :p ) formula 1 is still my favourite sport, hopefully he will recieve chance to start in next season  :up:


Edited by Sukhoi, 26 August 2013 - 16:26.


#468 InfectedPumpkin

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:43

I'd love to see Kubica back in F1. But considering the way he was moving and carefully protecting his right arm from movement 2.5 years after the crash I think his F1 career is done. Really sad.

 

Nope. Not exactly.

As he still is Mercedes F1 tester, he know what he is talking about and he know his potential in F1 car. Otherwise he wouldn't say something like this. Not Kubica. He is serious man - not some random show queen, that we see everywhere in motorsport this days.



#469 Myrvold

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:18

Merc F1 tester, now, that's to take it a bit to far ain't it?



#470 EthanM

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:20

the official Merc testers are Bird Ant and Hartley. AFAIK Merc did Kubica a solid and let him in their simulator to help him evaluate his fitness, but no he is not the "Merc F1 tester" by any stretch of the imagination



#471 MadYarpen

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:04

While he is not a test driver, I think he is spending quite more than one sessin in their sim...



#472 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:10

I highly doubt that he will ever come back to Formula 1. First of all his break is already long, second of all he isn't fit to be in F1 back again. third of all he is pretty decent in WRC.



#473 MaGiK

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:14

For sure it wasnt just one try in simulator.
Robert himself said that recently he was using Merc simulator again.
Niki Lauda in one interview said that Robert was "hired" by Mercedes to do simulator tests. So it was not just checking fitness.

#474 Krr

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:56

Cezary Gutowski, polish jurno wrote on his facebook fanpage few days ago that he knows for sure that Kubica is faster in merc simulator than regular drivers, and normally he knows what he is taking about when it comes to Robert. Plus Robert himself said that he could already race at 80% circuits, also that he is doing "a lot of simulator" and we see from what and how he is taking that his goal is to be back at F1 so who we are to say that its diffrent? I dont get it. Its aint over untill Robert himself will say that his come back is impossible. Period.

#475 InfectedPumpkin

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 13:37

I highly doubt that he will ever come back to Formula 1. First of all his break is already long, second of all he isn't fit to be in F1 back again.

 

Thank you, doctor.

Now we can move along.



#476 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 13:45

Thank you, doctor.

Now we can move along.

 

I'm not a doctor, but the teams, will they take risk to sign someone who is out of Formula 1 for few years already, and is out cause of massive injury? If I would be the Team principal, I wouldn't take such a risk.



#477 thuGG

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 13:47

I'm not a doctor, but the teams, will they take risk to sign someone who is out of Formula 1 for few years already, and is out cause of massive injury? If I would be the Team principal, I wouldn't take such a risk.

 

Do you think that these teams would sign him without testing him? Of course they won't risk that, first they will test him (IF he is ready). 


Edited by thuGG, 27 August 2013 - 13:49.


#478 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 13:49

Do you think that these teams would sign him without testing him? Of course they won't risk that, first they will test him. 

 

And who could hire him? 



#479 thuGG

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 13:52

I don't have any idea. We are talking here about purely hypothetical situation that somehow he recovered enough for F1. But when (and if) it happens, then a team that would consider signing him, would surely test him first. So it wouldn't be a blind shot to sign him contrary to your suggestion.


Edited by thuGG, 27 August 2013 - 13:54.


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#480 string158

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 14:01

Its worth noting that Mercedes have already testing him in DTM and in their simulator....  So he's not a complete unknown to them.  Not to mention the rally results are showing that he is still inherently a fast guy*

 

He seems to be getting a lot of backing from Merc, with Wolff talking him up.  Wonder if they might try and get him into one of the mercedes engined teams next year? 

 

 

 

* yeah, yeah, I know rallying and F1 are completely different.... 



#481 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 15:35

I don't have any idea. We are talking here about purely hypothetical situation that somehow he recovered enough for F1. But when (and if) it happens, then a team that would consider signing him, would surely test him first. So it wouldn't be a blind shot to sign him contrary to your suggestion.

 

I'm aware of that. But from all the top teams, all spots are taken already. And I highly doubt that he would like to drive in Caterham or such.

Toro Rosso is out, Williams well also I believe, Force India have two drivers that are happy with, Sauber? meh not likely.

Actually there is simply no team that would hire him.



#482 thuGG

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 15:43

I'm aware of that. But from all the top teams, all spots are taken already. 

What? Ferrari, RBR, McLaren, Lotus, I think they all haven't signed both drivers. Not to mention midfield teams. So I don't know what you are talking about. 



#483 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 15:52

What? Ferrari, RBR, McLaren, Lotus, I think they all haven't signed both drivers. Not to mention midfield teams. So I don't know what you are talking about. 

 

Kimi, Alonso, Ricciardo, Vettel, Perez, Button, Grosjean. Probably only 2nd seat in Ferrari is unknown.

Toro Rosso is junior RBR team, they won't sign guy from outside, Force India has 2 drivers with contract for next season as far as I remember, Williams has Maldonado and Bottas isn't bad, Sauber has big problems with the cash flow, and have already Sirotkin signed.

 

 

And I highly doubt that the top 5 teams would sign him. What's the reason? There are plenty of drivers that are to jump in, and there is no risk involved with them.



#484 thuGG

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 16:00

Jesus. Why are we having this conversation? You said that top teams don't have free seats, when in fact they do. The rest is your thoughts and opinions, not facts.



#485 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 16:29

Jesus. Why are we having this conversation? You said that top teams don't have free seats, when in fact they do. The rest is your thoughts and opinions, not facts.

 

It would be simply, odd (if not stupid) to get someone that is simply not as fit as used to be, didn't touch the F1 car in a long time (Kimi without injury used to be rusty for a year let's say) and has no financial backing.

We are having this conversation cause this is forum and we can share our opinions.

 

And why he would leave WRC? he can get a top seat next year anyway over there.



#486 thuGG

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 16:35

Do you even read my posts? Because I already explained to you that a team can test the driver to evaluate his performance, fitness etc. After that they can sign him or not.



#487 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 16:37

Do you even read my posts? Because I already explained to you that a team can test the driver to evaluate his performance, fitness etc. After that they can sign him or not.

 

testing don't give you complete image. Race is a race, there are other drivers around, he my luck his reflex or his hand may disallow such fast movements. And as I said there are plenty of better drivers, or as good as he used to be.



#488 thuGG

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 16:40

OK, that's your opinion, I don't agree with it. Case closed.



#489 DrProzac

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 17:35

You can cover way more than a race distance during a private test. (as well as in a simulator, which Kubica did - three times as long IIRC. But that's a different story).



#490 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 18:07

You can cover way more than a race distance during a private test. (as well as in a simulator, which Kubica did - three times as long IIRC. But that's a different story).

 

But you can't cover a race start, battle on the track or some incidents that just happens like someone ahead of you lose a wheel or so. What if Kubica lost his reflext or his arm disallow for such swift reactions?

And as I said even if he is alright, there is no reason to hire him, and I doubt that he would like to drive in Caterham or Marussia.



#491 thuGG

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 18:17

But you can't cover a race start, battle on the track or some incidents that just happens like someone ahead of you lose a wheel or so. What if Kubica lost his reflext or his arm disallow for such swift reactions?

 

If he had lost his reflex he wouldn't be this good in rallying. He makes much much more movements and quicker in rally car that he has to in F1.

 

EDIT:

Also, are you aware that there are methods and tests to check driver reflexes? Did you hear about dr Riccardo Ceccarelli's Formula Medicine?


Edited by thuGG, 27 August 2013 - 18:31.


#492 wolviex

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 18:30

(Kimi without injury used to be rusty for a year let's say)

 

Oh really!!?? As standings shows Kimi was constantly in top 10, 2nd already in 4th race and then winning. I don't see him rust. But what I can see is you trying very hard to bend facts for your suiting.

 

We don't know 'if' and 'when' obviously. So your discussion is pointless. What we know is:

 

- Kubica has still contact with F1 family (Mercedes sim i.e.)

- Kubica is able to drive WRC (tests) and WRC2/ERC cars on top level - so he is still a very good driver despite the injury

- If F1 return would not be possible at all, he would declare it already and focus on rallying 100%

- Somehow Yves Matton doesn't count Kubica on his plans yet - despite he proved himself and it is clear that his apperance in Citroen WRC car would make a lot of attention around the team and rallying. So there is something in the background we don't know yet (probably Kubica did not decide yet- for some reasons!  ;) )

 

I suppose, as Kubica said, next two months will bring the answer. Personally I expect him to stay in WRC next year with some racing track appearance.


Edited by wolviex, 27 August 2013 - 18:30.


#493 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 19:36

Oh really!!?? As standings shows Kimi was constantly in top 10, 2nd already in 4th race and then winning. I don't see him rust. But what I can see is you trying very hard to bend facts for your suiting.

 

We don't know 'if' and 'when' obviously. So your discussion is pointless. What we know is:

 

- Kubica has still contact with F1 family (Mercedes sim i.e.)

- Kubica is able to drive WRC (tests) and WRC2/ERC cars on top level - so he is still a very good driver despite the injury

- If F1 return would not be possible at all, he would declare it already and focus on rallying 100%

- Somehow Yves Matton doesn't count Kubica on his plans yet - despite he proved himself and it is clear that his apperance in Citroen WRC car would make a lot of attention around the team and rallying. So there is something in the background we don't know yet (probably Kubica did not decide yet- for some reasons!   ;) )

 

I suppose, as Kubica said, next two months will bring the answer. Personally I expect him to stay in WRC next year with some racing track appearance.

 

He had few bad quali sessions where he wasn't at his besrt speed. Also some races as far as I can remember. Team also said that he need to get used, and Kimi also said that he wasn't at his peak at the start of the season.

Ofc he won't declare that it isn't possible. it is his dream to be in F1, I believe he always will hope for it, to be back there. But I thought that he will be back in 2012, and I was wrong. Now I can't see him back there as simply as that.

 

 

If he had lost his reflex he wouldn't be this good in rallying. He makes much much more movements and quicker in rally car that he has to in F1.

 

EDIT:

Also, are you aware that there are methods and tests to check driver reflexes? Did you hear about dr Riccardo Ceccarelli's Formula Medicine?

 

If tests and simulations could do everything, then we would see drivers sittin in the sims and tests 10h per day. And I did hear about it, as far as I know Kubica even hold record there in reflex test or so.

 

 

Well maybe you are right. He wasn't maybe somehow insanely good, but he was decent and better than half of the current grid. So if he would somehow be as good as he used to be, he probably is capable of getting best midfield team seat (midfield teams are these outside top 3 teams for me) or so.


Edited by Shiroo, 27 August 2013 - 19:40.


#494 Mike Fallopian

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 20:44

 

Memories of the year: Kubica on the limit at Monaco
When he thinks back to Robert Kubica's performance at Monaco in 2010, Edd Straw has no doubts that given the right car the Pole can be world champion one day



Monaco. 14 May 2010. Robert Kubica is on it... big-time. His Renault is a yellow-and-black blur, perfectly controlled teetering on the limit of adhesion. He is visibly lightning fast whichever of the principality's pavements you choose to watch from, within touching distance of the embodiment of the limits of physics.

He's inch – no, millimetre – perfect at every corner. The car is consistent and predictable, no question, but Kubica is extracting 100 percent of its potential. Around the tortuous streets of Monte Carlo, this is his one chance to make the difference.

Etched in the memory is Casino Square. At the exit of the right-hander, he is impressive, but then you stroll back around the track to the entry of the corner and look towards Mirabeau. The cars roar into view exiting Massenet and turn in. The rear of the Renault drifts out a little, enough to make the angle of the car ideal to carry the maximum speed over the crest at the exit, but never enough to lose momentum or, worse, clatter into the barrier.

Some have the odd lap where they achieve near-perfection, but they have other laps where the rear rotates that bit too far and they have to correct, delaying the application of full throttle by crucial moments.

Kubica, meanwhile, is inch-perfect lap after lap. He really is a contender.

The fastest man of Thursday practice is Fernando Alonso, the other stand out driver. But when he clatters into the barrier at Massenet on Saturday morning, my mind leaps back to a Friday evening chat with AUTOSPORT grand prix editor Mark Hughes, who had watched on the outside of that very corner the day before and commented on how Alonso was mightily committed, but one mistake away from a shunt.

Kubica is the same, never more than a millimetre from a shunt, but he makes no such blunder all weekend. Only the Red Bulls prevent him taking an incredible win – but there is no doubt which driver was the star of that weekend.

It's rare as a journalist that you see feats of driving that stand out in a field of such extraordinary quality, but what Kubica did at Monaco merits comparison with anything the likes of Ayrton Senna managed around the streets. He was that good.

Watch Kubica at Monaco and you have no doubts that he can become world champion one day.



#495 DrProzac

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 21:05

But you can't cover a race start, battle on the track or some incidents that just happens like someone ahead of you lose a wheel or so. What if Kubica lost his reflext or his arm disallow for such swift reactions?

 

Simulator and normal tests can show the level of skill, concentration, fitness, the feel of the car etc. To drive the car properly fast, on the limit, you have to be inch perfect and it requires proper reflex.

As for unpredictable situations and reflex needed to deal with them, rallying is just as unpredictable as F1 can be (or more), but much more often. You are not driving in circles on a track you know every inch of, but on roads that you are not able to remember in such detail. The conditions change much more and not in such a predictable way as a track grip level evolution during a dry race. You get rocks etc on the road, the grip changes from corner to corner, your car breaks in many ways from time to time. You have to judge your brake points on the fly, every time. Many things can happen and you have to deal with it. 

That's why Robert said that rallying is a very good rehabilitation/recovery activity for him. And that's why under those circumstances he said he is doing things with his arm he though he cannot do. I think that if he is doing great in rallying, his reflexes are on a good level.

 

Of course as far as F1 goes, we can only speculate. And for the moment it's not very likely.


Edited by DrProzac, 27 August 2013 - 21:06.


#496 Forever

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 06:27

 

Of course as far as F1 goes, we can only speculate. And for the moment it's not very likely.

But as a man himself have said - it is more probable than a year ago.



#497 MadYarpen

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 10:00

f1talks.pl @f1talks 2 h

Kubica: "In the last six months I have been in the Mercedes simulator more than once and less than ten times." #F1

f1talks.pl @f1talks 2 h

Kubica: "I have the feeling that Mercedes is happy with what I have been doing." #F1

 

 

I think it is a quote from Auto Bild. Anyone can provide some accurate translation? I've read somewhere, that Auto Bild assumes Merc have the same role for RK for 2014.



#498 ForeverInLoveWithF1

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 13:24

 

f1talks.pl @f1talks 2 h

Kubica: "In the last six months I have been in the Mercedes simulator more than once and less than ten times." #F1

f1talks.pl @f1talks 2 h

Kubica: "I have the feeling that Mercedes is happy with what I have been doing." #F1

 

 

I think it is a quote from Auto Bild. Anyone can provide some accurate translation? I've read somewhere, that Auto Bild assumes Merc have the same role for RK for 2014.

 

 

Its a quote from Motorsport-total:  http://www.motorspor...g-13090411.html

 

They say that Kubica may probably have the same role 2014. I think, IF he will be still available..  ;)  



#499 DampMongoose

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 15:57

For those interested, there is a 'Lunch with' article in the current issue of Motorsport with Robert which makes for a good read.  He suggested that his biggest problem is still movement in his right hand, particularly the gripping and ungripping process.  He still has limited strength and ability to grip, which is evident from the recent photo in the magazine where you can see it's not looking great.  Interested to read that the choice of rallying for Citroen is more to do with the amount of time in the car (for his recovery) compared to choosing DTM.  Although quite how it aids his recovery when he's got a left hand paddle on the wheel to change gear rather than using his right hand is a bit of a mystery?

 

It would obviously mean alot more if he were able to compete in WRC2 without the special dispensation from the FIA, as far as judging his recovery... the fact he has the paddle only on the left side for up and downshifts is concerning from an F1 comeback point of view.  Sounds like he can't operate a paddle with his right hand?


Edited by DampMongoose, 05 September 2013 - 16:22.


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#500 Deerfield

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 16:14

Yesterday on italian press Autosprint there was a Robert interview and some photos. In one of them, he's signing autographs with his left hand (I seem to remember he wasn't lefty before the accident) and he's keeping a pencil in his right hand but not gripping it, the hand is sort of locked in a steering wheel shape. It remember me how Nannini ordered to Dr. Bufalini, when reattaching his arm after the helicopter crash, to privilege a finger position that would be good for driving and little else. I'm saying this not to indulge in gruesome details, but to cheer Robert. What he did this season in rally is exceptional, considering he's still recovering. Sure, to see him returning in F1 would be a great great story, perhaps the most emotional one from a long time. Anyway, even if he feels better to stay in WRC, I don't see it as a 2nd choice


Edited by Deerfield, 05 September 2013 - 16:17.