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F1 Coverage Thread - 2013 Season (BBC and Sky)


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#151 D.M.N.

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:23

I've never understood why they've stuck with these 15 minute segments up until now - there is enough interesting stuff from testing to make at least an hour's show out of. They have an entire dedicated F1 channel sitting empty and they can't be assed doing more than that? Might sound ungrateful but the two hour show is overdue IMO.

Would be nice, except Sky of course can't stick cameras around the circuit willy-nilly, they have to go through FOM first...

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#152 Imperial

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:30

The BBC comments are funny. With the cutbacks they'll probably be broadcasting in 1D by next year.

#153 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:32

Would be nice, except Sky of course can't stick cameras around the circuit willy-nilly, they have to go through FOM first...


I don't think tests are micromanaged by FOM are they? I'm not even sure you have to pay them to show footage. Though possibly since they're official tests.

#154 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:32

The BBC comments are funny. With the cutbacks they'll probably be broadcasting in 1D by next year.


As if we don't get enough coverage of Harry Styles.

#155 milestone 11

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:34

...what you need to do is demonstrate your bona fides by proving that you can offer a great service, with a higher quality and at a reasonable price.

What the toxic bastards need to demonstrate is that they offer a service at all. My £65 per month gets me no F1 this year!


#156 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:42

Don't let the random xenophobic bigotry put you off discussing the BIG NEWS that testing will be in 3D.

My question is why?

It seems to me that if you want to push yourself as the broadcasting service of choice, what you need to do is demonstrate your bona fides by proving that you can offer a great service, with a higher quality and at a reasonable price. What better than to take your kit along to a test that would not otherwise be covered, where the FOM people can sit back, watch and gauge the value?

It would not be a surprise to me if this were a precursor to Sky taking over the full production in 2014.


But it's not BIG/MASSIVE news really is it? It's nice for those who have 3D, for those who don't (the vast majority of people) it's very much bleh. Testing being shown is big enough I suppose, although that's tempered by the fact it's only a couple of hours a day.

#157 D.M.N.

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 13:44

I don't think tests are micromanaged by FOM are they? I'm not even sure you have to pay them to show footage. Though possibly since they're official tests.

Bit in bold. I'm not sure they are as micromanaged as the races, but they still need permission to film and place cameras around the circuit.

#158 goingthedistance

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:25

Would be nice, except Sky of course can't stick cameras around the circuit willy-nilly, they have to go through FOM first...


Yeah, good point. I guess that's what we're going to get at last though, Sky putting their cameras up around Catalunya. I'm sure it won't be cheap for them to do this.

I definitely agree with the theory that this is Sky having a bit of a test run at doing the camera work themselves, with the potential to take over from FOM properly in the future.

#159 ApexMouse

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 14:33

I imagine the trackside advertisers will have things to say about that, Also, pretty much every racing series at the top level I can think of has tried 3D and ditched it. V8SC, F1, Motogp even did a 3D camera test in 2011. The F1 3D ws shown to journalists at the 2010 (2011?) Canadian gp and they said it was pap. True 1080p would be far better, though obviously this would come from FOM and not Sky. Still, nice to see a bit of testing. Depends how far they analyse it, otherwise it will just be two hours of cars pounding round.

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#160 MinT

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:13

Does seem likely this is a foot in the door to taking over from FOM or otherwise why bother - there has already been a 3D F1 test.

I do also agree that it was not overhyped - by media standards. Live coverage of an F1 test and in 3D is worth shouting about for them.

Assume the two hours will be a mix of live actiona nd also catup from the morning session.

The point about 3D and fast moving images is a bit if a red herring in that mostly the cars are shot head on or near to it anyway because of the speed - how often do we actually get a sense of speed out of the coverage - it doesnt make for great viewing in 3D or otherwise.

I also 100% agree that if this had been the BBC announcing this for their HD channel - people would of been applauding them for their committment etc.

People need to get used to the fact that it is unlikely F1 will ever be fully live on the BBC again - if at all. If it is not a success on Sky and they drop it I hate to think what we would be left with.

#161 Clatter

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:19

I don't think tests are micromanaged by FOM are they? I'm not even sure you have to pay them to show footage. Though possibly since they're official tests.


I'd be surprised if they don't. As far as FOM are concerned they own all F1 footage, including your own. I doubt that applies to races only.


#162 dank

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:19

I don't think there is a single person who genuinely believes that F1 will ever return to terrestrial television - BBC or otherwise - in the way it used to. If there is, then they're spectacularly stupid.

And if the BBC had made a similar announcement today I would've put that firmly in the "waste of a TV license" category, not lauded them for investing in woefully inadequate technology.

#163 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:22

I'd be surprised if they don't. As far as FOM are concerned they own all F1 footage, including your own. I doubt that applies to races only.


Those filming days they do on demo tires the day before a test or whatever arent covered. Why is why you see the footage endlessly.

#164 Clatter

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:22

Does seem likely this is a foot in the door to taking over from FOM or otherwise why bother - there has already been a 3D F1 test.

I do also agree that it was not overhyped - by media standards. Live coverage of an F1 test and in 3D is worth shouting about for them.

Assume the two hours will be a mix of live actiona nd also catup from the morning session.

The point about 3D and fast moving images is a bit if a red herring in that mostly the cars are shot head on or near to it anyway because of the speed - how often do we actually get a sense of speed out of the coverage - it doesnt make for great viewing in 3D or otherwise.

I also 100% agree that if this had been the BBC announcing this for their HD channel - people would of been applauding them for their committment etc.

People need to get used to the fact that it is unlikely F1 will ever be fully live on the BBC again - if at all. If it is not a success on Sky and they drop it I hate to think what we would be left with.


They are the only UK broadcaster with a dedicated 3D channel so might well be looking for additional material, although I can't see what they will do about the football clashes unless they add more 3D channels.

#165 Clatter

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:24

I don't think there is a single person who genuinely believes that F1 will ever return to terrestrial television - BBC or otherwise - in the way it used to. If there is, then they're spectacularly stupid.

And if the BBC had made a similar announcement today I would've put that firmly in the "waste of a TV license" category, not lauded them for investing in woefully inadequate technology.


:up: :up: Totally agree.


#166 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:29

And if the BBC had made a similar announcement today I would've put that firmly in the "waste of a TV license" category, not lauded them for investing in woefully inadequate technology.


Agreed. If 3D was as big, as popular, as widespread as HD in terms of things being broadcast in 3D, the number of 3D channels, the number of people with HD TV's then it'd seem at least remotely sensible. As it is, 3D will (hopefully) end up going the same way it's apparently gone in the past, ie a passing trend that disappears into obscurity until the next time someone thinks it's a good idea to give it a try again. I've not seen sport in 3D, but have seen films in 3D, and it's so overrated, as it rarely actually adds anything (from my own personal film watching experiences). The BBC would absolutely be wasting licence fee money if they invested in it.

Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 06 February 2013 - 15:30.


#167 Bloggsworth

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:31

3D is already falling out of favour in films, and would do so for television, bar the fact that we are trapped by the broadcasters and set manufacturers dreaming up ever more expensive ways to get us to watch - How many of us have good enough eyesight to need a 2160 UHD screen at 4 times the price of a 1080 when the majority of what is on television is hung over from 625 lines or fewer. If you watch MotorsTV and some of Eurosport's output it is about the standard of 405 lines with colour; many of the "Movie" channels are so out of focus the credits are hard to read... But come they will, the megacorps must have something new with which to dupe the public, or we'll all be satisfied with what we've got and buy nothing new.

Back on topic, the top 2/3 of the teams seem pretty closely matched, just over a second seperating them.

#168 Clatter

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:33

3D is already falling out of favour in films, and would do so for television, bar the fact that we are trapped by the broadcasters and set manufacturers dreaming up ever more expensive ways to get us to watch - How many of us have good enough eyesight to need a 2160 UHD screen at 4 times the price of a 1080 when the majority of what is on television is hung over from 625 lines or fewer. If you watch MotorsTV and some of Eurosport's output it is about the standard of 405 lines with colour; many of the "Movie" channels are so out of focus the credits are hard to read... But come they will, the megacorps must have something new with which to dupe the public, or we'll all be satisfied with what we've got and buy nothing new.

Back on topic, the top 2/3 of the teams seem pretty closely matched, just over a second seperating them.


How is that on topic? :)


#169 Buttoneer

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 15:45

Maybe he's eating one?

#170 olliek88

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 16:10

I'd say its pretty good news, to say its "massive" is over the top but then you've got to promote your product and hyperbole is one way of achieving that. You can't complain at getting so much coverage of a test though! Sure testing means squat but its still nice to see F1 cars in anger regardless, the 3D thing is pretty irrelevant as far as i'm concerned as i don't have a 3D TV and i think its pretty pointless.

#171 jonpollak

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 16:25

I'm with Buttoneer on this one.
Sky are doing this with a view to raise rates and drive subs (lame as the massive is) along with getting the host broadcaster role and then shortly after that (IE: when that funeral happens)BskyB going after the broadcast rights.

Source: Rupert's sports battering ram.
Jp

#172 Fastcake

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:29

Does seem likely this is a foot in the door to taking over from FOM or otherwise why bother - there has already been a 3D F1 test.


Why would Sky want to film the races themselves? That just seems pointless :confused:

#173 Imperial

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 18:42

Some smart comments on this page.

CVC will be selling F1 at some point, otherwise they wouldn't make maximum profit from their investment. Makes more sense now what Sky are working up to over the next few years. Murdoch may well be the buyer CVC are looking for.

#174 Clatter

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 19:32

Why would Sky want to film the races themselves? That just seems pointless :confused:


Sounds like a money maker to me. If they took over the filming it would not be just for UK viewing.


#175 Tonka

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 20:48

3D football programmes have proved to be a failure. They discovered the game had to be filmed from ground level for the system to work. All very clever until some idiot player or official stood in the way of the camera - or the action moved to the middle of the field and several players got in the way.

I believe Sky bought a lot of 3D kit, which has become redundant overnight. So they cart it along to F1 testing in the hope they can flog their unwanted equipment to Bernie. Let's hope it gives him a headache, as it has to many other 3D viewers.

Bernie won't be flogging off or transferring control of his TV broadcasting department. It's the big money earner for CVC, he's not as daft as Mosley.

Not that I care too much. If RB dominate again this year, I'll be finding other things to do on a Sunday.



#176 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 21:09

The broadcast doesn't make money, the broadcast rights do.

Though that more and more races have becoming FOM rather than local broadcaster over the last decade, makes me think FOM isn't looking to outsource.

#177 Imperial

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 22:22

Bernie won't be flogging off or transferring control of his TV broadcasting department. It's the big money earner for CVC, he's not as daft as Mosley.


Make no mistake, the BIG money earner for CVC is going to be when they sell off, in part or in whole, the Formula One Group.



#178 jonpollak

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Posted 06 February 2013 - 23:12

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3-D ON-BOARD?....
This'll be like F1inPubs big marketing/tweet up test right?
Pay my train fare..
Jp

#179 Fastcake

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 00:58

The broadcast doesn't make money, the broadcast rights do.

Though that more and more races have becoming FOM rather than local broadcaster over the last decade, makes me think FOM isn't looking to outsource.


That's what I was going to say to Clatter. I just don't see why FOM would stop broadcasting all the races (I believe they do now) and pay someone else to do it, what's the gain for either them or BSkyB?

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#180 ExFlagMan

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:19

So - did 3D happen? Did anyone watch it? Was it any good?
Lots of speculation here over the previous two days then nothing.

#181 milestone 11

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:23

So - did 3D happen? Did anyone watch it? Was it any good?
Lots of speculation here over the previous two days then nothing.

Final test!


#182 ExFlagMan

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 13:52

My mistake :blush: I assumed with all the hype that it was about to happen

#183 Clatter

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 14:09

That's what I was going to say to Clatter. I just don't see why FOM would stop broadcasting all the races (I believe they do now) and pay someone else to do it, what's the gain for either them or BSkyB?


I don't know the actual costs involved but can see how it could be cheaper to outsource that role. FOM would not be losing control of anything. However something like this I think would have to be put out to tender.

#184 Tonka

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:28

I don't know the actual costs involved but can see how it could be cheaper to outsource that role.



Really? There are many, many companies that have discovered to their cost, that outsourcing isn't always cheaper. It's not as if Sky pay their cameramen/directors etc any less that CVC do. What do you suggest, get a few untrained locals in at every GP and hope they have half a clue?



#185 Bobsacamano

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:47

So after hearing of sky planning to broadcast the final testing session I decided have a quick look at how much the sky go monthly tickets would cost me this year. The cheapest I could figure out being able to watch every session was £210. Heres a quick image I made for myself to try plan it out if anyone else would like to use/change it.

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#186 Clatter

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 14:19

Really? There are many, many companies that have discovered to their cost, that outsourcing isn't always cheaper. It's not as if Sky pay their cameramen/directors etc any less that CVC do. What do you suggest, get a few untrained locals in at every GP and hope they have half a clue?


So what if some companies have got it wrong? I can still see where there could be savings to be made by outsourcing the elements to an expert partner.


#187 pdac

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 14:54

So what if some companies have got it wrong? I can still see where there could be savings to be made by outsourcing the elements to an expert partner.

I don't think it's so much about outsourcing as getting someone else to pay to test the market.

There's been a lot of hype about 3D TV, but the initial reaction from the public seems to be less enthusiastic than the manufacturers would have hoped. Some people say that it's because of the lack of content and some say it's just that people are not interested in the idea as a whole.

It would cost a lot of money to set up 3D broadcast facilities. So if you spent that money and it didn't attract more paying customers or people weren't prepared to pay enough, then it would be a foolish investment. What would be better is to get someone else to stump up the money and see what happens.

#188 Clatter

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 15:00

I don't think it's so much about outsourcing as getting someone else to pay to test the market.

There's been a lot of hype about 3D TV, but the initial reaction from the public seems to be less enthusiastic than the manufacturers would have hoped. Some people say that it's because of the lack of content and some say it's just that people are not interested in the idea as a whole.

It would cost a lot of money to set up 3D broadcast facilities. So if you spent that money and it didn't attract more paying customers or people weren't prepared to pay enough, then it would be a foolish investment. What would be better is to get someone else to stump up the money and see what happens.


Very true. BE already got stung with F1 Digital. He won't want to make that mistake again.




#189 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 15:41

I don't think it's so much about outsourcing as getting someone else to pay to test the market.

There's been a lot of hype about 3D TV, but the initial reaction from the public seems to be less enthusiastic than the manufacturers would have hoped. Some people say that it's because of the lack of content and some say it's just that people are not interested in the idea as a whole.

It would cost a lot of money to set up 3D broadcast facilities. So if you spent that money and it didn't attract more paying customers or people weren't prepared to pay enough, then it would be a foolish investment. What would be better is to get someone else to stump up the money and see what happens.

Getting Sky to do the filming for a fee, but then charging the TV companies for the rights, is a good model. As you say, it means FOM doesn't have to fork out on a load of 3D camera's and equipment having only just ponied up for HD.

Bernie will be able to charge for an SD feed, a higher amount for an HD feed, and suck them dry completely with a 3D feed. All optional, and all increasingly more desirable (even essential) to wealthy motorsport nerds.

#190 Imperial

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 16:58

BE already got stung with F1 Digital. He won't want to make that mistake again.


In the UK at least we basically have it. The BBC are scaling back their red button, but Sky has surely almost all, if not all, of the options available under F1 Digital.

I doubt BCE needs to go the original F1 Digital route again anyway. The continuing global money meltdown will likely see F1 either subscription only or a UK style share deal across most territories within a few years.


#191 Clatter

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 18:15

Getting Sky to do the filming for a fee, but then charging the TV companies for the rights, is a good model. As you say, it means FOM doesn't have to fork out on a load of 3D camera's and equipment having only just ponied up for HD.

Bernie will be able to charge for an SD feed, a higher amount for an HD feed, and suck them dry completely with a 3D feed. All optional, and all increasingly more desirable (even essential) to wealthy motorsport nerds.


Problem is I don't believe there are enough of them to cover the costs. As popular as F1 is, the viewing figures would plummet if it were a subscription only model.

#192 pRy

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 19:59

So after hearing of sky planning to broadcast the final testing session I decided have a quick look at how much the sky go monthly tickets would cost me this year. The cheapest I could figure out being able to watch every session was £210. Heres a quick image I made for myself to try plan it out if anyone else would like to use/change it.


Thanks for this. Was it 6 tickets last season? Seems more to me? I wonder if them having the start of the season tied up has made the difference?

#193 pinkypants

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 23:08

Is Ted doing a notebook today?

#194 D.M.N.

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 10:02

Is Ted doing a notebook today?

Yes, it was on at the normal time.

If you missed anything by the way this week, two repeat airings today on Sky F1: 13:55 to 16:00 and 18:00 to 20:05.

#195 Boing 2

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:18

I wonder how you would handle on screen graphics with 3D, would they be always in front of the action, neutral? I just wonder it it wouldn't be tiring on the eyes to have to constantly flick 'in and out' of the picture to check lap times etc.


Might add a bit to the grid girls though :p

#196 olliek88

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:39

I wonder how you would handle on screen graphics with 3D, would they be always in front of the action, neutral? I just wonder it it wouldn't be tiring on the eyes to have to constantly flick 'in and out' of the picture to check lap times etc.


Might add a bit to the grid girls though :p


One (of the many) troubles with 3D is you need a large depth of field for it to work properly, think about how F1 is shot, usually with long distance panning or head on shots, not really conducive to exploiting the (limited) effects of 3D, you'd have to shoot it in a completely different way to how it is now.

I'm curious how Sky are going to go about it at the final test, if they are going to try and maximise the effects of 3D it could quite possibly have a detrimental effect to those watching in 2D with less than optimal camera angles.

Edited by olliek88, 09 February 2013 - 11:40.


#197 study

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:10

Just on this part:

Sky Sports F1 is...
- available to people with Sky on Channel 408 who have the HD package OR the Sports package (note - this particular point could change)
- available to people with Virgin Media on Channel 516 who have the Sky Sports package (SD only, HD channel is Sky exclusive - again, could change)
- available on Sky Go with the relevant subscription
- available on Xbox 360 for Sky customers with an Xbox LIVE Gold subscription




Sky sports F1 coverage is also available for anyone with a iPhone or iPad on the Sky Sports TV app. The subscription is about £4.99 a month. Its a iphone app, so if you view it on your iPad you have to scale it, so definition is damaged. The quality of the stream isn't as good as Sky Go, but then it is £25 cheaper a month.

#198 Imperial

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:41

Yes, it was on at the normal time.

If you missed anything by the way this week, two repeat airings today on Sky F1: 13:55 to 16:00 and 18:00 to 20:05.


It's also on the Sky website.

#199 Bobsacamano

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:59

Sky sports F1 coverage is also available for anyone with a iPhone or iPad on the Sky Sports TV app. The subscription is about £4.99 a month. Its a iphone app, so if you view it on your iPad you have to scale it, so definition is damaged. The quality of the stream isn't as good as Sky Go, but then it is £25 cheaper a month.


I don't think this is the case, otherwise I'd have purchased an iPad purely for that reason. According to the website:

"Other users can purchase an auto-renewing monthly subscription to Sky Sports for iPad (this will not include access to Sky Sports 1-4 and Sky Sports F1). Please note:
• Sky Sports News is the only live channel this subscription will give you access to using the app. "

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#200 ApexMouse

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 14:03

Isnt the xbox 'Sky' just sky go? It counts towards one of your devices.