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Competition is greater now - Schumacher


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#1 encircled

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:00

Competition is greater now - Schumacher

When asked by Auto Motor und Sport if the competition had been greater than in his first career, Schumacher replied: "Yes, because the field is closer together.

"In my early days, there was always the chance to be quicker than another driver not just by a couple of tenths, but a full second. Why? Because the cars aerodynamically were not so balanced and were therefore very sharp to drive. As a driver, you then had many more possibilities yourself. Today, the cars are aerodynamically stable and well balanced; the window in which you work is not as big."

However, Schumacher said it didn't necessarily mean the drivers were of a better standard today, only used to a more professional way of working.

"Are the drivers of today so much better? It has always only been the best drivers who are in Formula One. Today there are more best drivers? Of course I set new standards with the way I work, but my former colleagues were on the way they were accustomed to working perfectly, and some had to replicate the new standard. The difference today is that maybe the new generation has grown up with this same scale."



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#2 tifosiMac

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:03

Michael should have kept schtum.

His fans have been arguing against this opinion for years and it can't be good to hear the big man say it.

#3 Sin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:06

Well I think he is right about the first part can't say much about the second part....

then again I'm not a Schumi fan so I haven't been arguing against his opinion for years :lol:

besides it's written 'stumm'

Edited by Sin, 02 January 2013 - 19:07.


#4 tifosiMac

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:10

besides it's written 'stumm'

I know how its spelt, said and its various interpretations.

#5 1Devil1

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:16

Michael should have kept schtum.

His fans have been arguing against this opinion for years and it can't be good to hear the big man say it.


You understood what he said or do you have to read it again ? The common argument against Schumacher is that the drivers are greater than in the 90's or the early 2000's. What he is saying (in this is his definition of a greater competition) is that the field is much closer. As driver you can't have a mistake, need a good car (you can't overcome a deficit like it 90's by driving on the edge). You have to read just more than a headline...

Edited by 1Devil1, 02 January 2013 - 19:18.


#6 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:25

Michael should have kept schtum.

His fans have been arguing against this opinion for years and it can't be good to hear the big man say it.


Huh?? Personally, I agree. I can't speak about others, though, but I always thought along the same lines. He is perfectly right. Don't see where this hurts other MS fan's feelings? The added value of a driver is measured in a few tenths, or even less, He is speaking sense. He couldn't really come to terms with ebd eiether.


#7 garoidb

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:28

So, one of the things he is saying that he set new standards and the new generation has grown up with this standard. This sounds fine to me. Great champions find new ways to push the envelope and raise the bar, and the fact that succeeding generations follow that example does not lessen the original achievement.

#8 olliek88

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:36

"In my early days, there was always the chance to be quicker than another driver not just by a couple of tenths, but a full second. Why? Because the cars aerodynamically were not so balanced and were therefore very sharp to drive.


Perhaps, but when you've been beaten by your teammate over the last three years that becomes completely irrelevant.

As a side note, i do feel there is a better quality and depth of quality than during Michaels first career, not that it would of changed much when you've got some of the best F1 cars ever built and a willing teammate at your disposal.

#9 tomjol

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:39

Perhaps, but when you've been beaten by your teammate over the last three years that becomes completely irrelevant.

As a side note, i do feel there is a better quality and depth of quality than during Michaels first career, not that it would of changed much when you've got some of the best F1 cars ever built and a willing teammate at your disposal.


The comparison to his teammate is itself completely irrelevant. This is not a "why was Michael's so-called second carer unsuccessful" thread.

#10 olliek88

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 19:41

The comparison to his teammate is itself completely irrelevant. This is not a "why was Michael's so-called second carer unsuccessful" thread.


Of course, but i felt it was a relevant point when taken in context with my quote from Michael .

#11 D.M.N.

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 20:08

Posts removed - focus on the quotes in the opening post and not other posters.

#12 ClubmanGT

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 20:28

It seems he's saying there's less of a chance for drivers to make the difference - the car set-ups are more clinical and a good driver in an average car will today struggle to outpace an average driver in a good car.

#13 antiddd

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 20:36

Michael said that the new standards set by him became common with the new generation of drivers. It has nothing to do with the level of talent.
Fangio of 1950 would be dead last today. However, his talent and ethics would make him work according to today's standards and rise to the top again.

#14 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 20:54

What he is saying

- cars are more aerodynamically stable than before. Previous cars were 'sharper' to drive.

- Driver can make less of a differnce than before.

- Car has a smaller operating window and less time can be found. Before you could find a second, now you cannot.

- Cars are closer together than before (rule stability allows cars to get closer)

- His work ethic standards are now seen en masse throughout the field esp among top drivers

#15 Skinnyguy

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 21:06

This reminds me of when I said every single current gen car is pretty easy for these guys to get very close to its full potential, and got jumped on by an hord of bothered fans because that statement didn´t match their "RB is on rails and easier to drive fast than my driver´s car" agenda. :rolleyes:



#16 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 21:14

Quoted for emphasis;

Posts removed - focus on the quotes in the opening post and not other posters.



#17 Schumacher7

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 21:25

Michael should have kept schtum.

His fans have been arguing against this opinion for years and it can't be good to hear the big man say it.

I think you've misunderstood what he's saying, he's saying the cars are closer together.

#18 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:00

It seems pretty clear to me that he's giving nothing to take away from himself with these answers.

Having said that, these would have been answers given in German so it would be nice if someone could find the original AMuS interview and confirm that it has been translated correctly because it doesn't read particularly well at the moment.

#19 D.M.N.

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:11

Having said that, these would have been answers given in German so it would be nice if someone could find the original AMuS interview and confirm that it has been translated correctly because it doesn't read particularly well at the moment.

Here is the original: http://www.auto-moto...en-6360876.html

Can't comment on the translation, but it's quite an extensive interview there.

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#20 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:12

What he is saying

- cars are more aerodynamically stable than before. Previous cars were 'sharper' to drive.

Well that's true... early cars were much less stable than these modern ones.

But Schumi seems to have miss the occassions when Vettel or Webber did take pole position by nearly 1 second, with their Red Bull and it's vastly superior corner speed to any other car. Maybe he wasn't paying attention? :)

#21 Vesuvius

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:15

But Schumi seems to have miss the occassions when Vettel or Webber did take pole position by nearly 1 second, with their Red Bull and it's vastly superior corner speed to any other car. Maybe he wasn't paying attention? :)



But in races the difference was not a second/ lap it was only few tenths most of the times :)

#22 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:17

Well that's true... early cars were much less stable than these modern ones.

But Schumi seems to have miss the occassions when Vettel or Webber did take pole position by nearly 1 second, with their Red Bull and it's vastly superior corner speed to any other car. Maybe he wasn't paying attention? :)


do you mean the one sec difference was driver related? Like the legendary 6 tenths? It didn't seem to be that much when Massa found his footing this season.


#23 Sin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:18

Ist die Konkurrenz heute größer geworden als in Ihrer ersten Karriere?

Schumacher: Ja, weil das Feld enger zusammenliegt. In meiner Anfangszeit gab es immer mal wieder die Möglichkeit, einem anderen Fahrer nicht nur ein paar Zehntel, sondern eine ganze Sekunde aufzubrummen. Warum? Weil die Autos aerodynamisch nicht so ausgeglichen und daher sehr spitz zu fahren waren. Als Fahrer hast du dann viel mehr Möglichkeiten, dich abzusetzen. Heute sind die Autos aerodynamisch stabil und sehr ausgeglichen. Das Fenster, in dem du dich bewegst, ist nicht mehr so groß. Ausbrechen geht nicht. Sind die Fahrer von heute um so viel besser? Auch damals haben es nur die besten Fahrer in die Formel 1 geschafft. Gibt es heute mehr beste Fahrer? Natürlich habe ich mit meiner Arbeitsweise neue Maßstäbe gesetzt, aber meine früheren Kollegen waren auf die Art, wie sie zu arbeiten gewohnt waren, auch perfekt. Und einige habe sich den neuen Maßstab abgeschaut. Der Unterschied zu heute ist vielleicht, dass die neue Generation mit diesem Maßstab gleich aufgewachsen ist. Sie hat ihn verinnerlicht.




They translated it very well... really...

http://www.auto-moto...en-6360876.html

#24 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:21

Really?

Because this reads terribly;

"Are the drivers of today so much better? It has always only been the best drivers who are in Formula One. Today there are more best drivers? Of course I set new standards with the way I work, but my former colleagues were on the way they were accustomed to working perfectly, and some had to replicate the new standard. The difference today is that maybe the new generation has grown up with this same scale."

#25 Sin

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:25

Really?

Because this reads terribly;

"Are the drivers of today so much better? It has always only been the best drivers who are in Formula One. Today there are more best drivers? Of course I set new standards with the way I work, but my former colleagues were on the way they were accustomed to working perfectly, and some had to replicate the new standard. The difference today is that maybe the new generation has grown up with this same scale."



well that questions answer was hard to translate buuut

that part you made fat translates too: Of course I set a new standard with my operating principles , but my former colleagues also were perfect in the way how they were used to work.


more intresting I think is that question

Ist Ihnen die neue Generation fremd geworden? Die meisten sind immerhin 15 Jahre jünger als Sie und haben logischerweise andere Interessen.

Schumacher: Die machen andere Sachen wie zum Beispiel twittern. Das muss man akzeptieren. Das ist es aber auch schon. Jede Zeit bringt Veränderungen mit sich. Früher gab es kein Handy. Heute hat jeder eines. Wenn sich jemand davon abhängig fühlt, und nur noch in dieser Welt lebt, dann ist das eine andere Schiene. Aber davon reden wir ja nicht. Aber es gab früher ja auch Altersunterschiede. Da war ich der junge Fahrer. Es gab immer unterschiedliche Charaktere. Mit dem einen kannst du, mit dem anderen nicht. Mit dem Seb oder dem Timo habe ich trotz des Altersunterschiedes kein Problem. Ich empfinde den gar nicht so. Es gibt dann aber auch ein paar Kollegen, mit denen ich nicht so kann, und die sind nicht unbedingt jünger.


Has the new generation become strange for you? Most of them are after all 15 years younger than you and naturally have different intrests?

Schumacher: They do others things like using twitter. You have to accept that. That is about it. Every age brings change. IN the past there were no mobile phones, today everyone has one. If someone feels addicted to it and just is living in that world then that is something different. But that is not what we are talking about. But back then there were age differences too. Back then I was the young driver. There were always different characters. With some you get along with the others you don't. With Seb and Timo I have no problems despite the age difference. I don't even notice it. Then there are a few colleagues I don't get along with and they are not necessarily younger...

Edited by Sin, 02 January 2013 - 22:33.


#26 as65p

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:33

Really?

Because this reads terribly;

"Are the drivers of today so much better? It has always only been the best drivers who are in Formula One. Today there are more best drivers? Of course I set new standards with the way I work, but my former colleagues were on the way they were accustomed to working perfectly, and some had to replicate the new standard. The difference today is that maybe the new generation has grown up with this same scale."


"but my former colleagues were perfect too in the way they were accustomed to work"

Not a perfect translation either, but then again the text isn't very good german to begin with. Essentially he is saying that his working ethic has moved the goalposts, that the standards were lower before him, and the drivers before him were perfect too, within the confines of those (lower) standards.

#27 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:37

well that questions answer was hard to translate buuut

that part you made fat translates too: Of course I set a new standard with my operating principles , but my former colleagues also were perfect in the way how they were used to work.


more intresting I think is that question

Ist Ihnen die neue Generation fremd geworden? Die meisten sind immerhin 15 Jahre jünger als Sie und haben logischerweise andere Interessen.

Schumacher: Die machen andere Sachen wie zum Beispiel twittern. Das muss man akzeptieren. Das ist es aber auch schon. Jede Zeit bringt Veränderungen mit sich. Früher gab es kein Handy. Heute hat jeder eines. Wenn sich jemand davon abhängig fühlt, und nur noch in dieser Welt lebt, dann ist das eine andere Schiene. Aber davon reden wir ja nicht. Aber es gab früher ja auch Altersunterschiede. Da war ich der junge Fahrer. Es gab immer unterschiedliche Charaktere. Mit dem einen kannst du, mit dem anderen nicht. Mit dem Seb oder dem Timo habe ich trotz des Altersunterschiedes kein Problem. Ich empfinde den gar nicht so. Es gibt dann aber auch ein paar Kollegen, mit denen ich nicht so kann, und die sind nicht unbedingt jünger.


Has the new generation become strange for you? Most of them are after all 15 years younger than you and naturally have different intrests?

Schumacher: They do others things like using twitter. You have to accept that. That is about it. Every age brings change. IN the past there were no mobile phones, today everyone has one. If someone feels addicted to it and just is living in that world then that is something different. But that is not what we are talking about. But back then there were age differences too. Back then I was the young driver. There were always different characters. With some you get along with the others you don't. With Seb and Timo I have no problems despite the age difference. I don't even notice it. Then there are a few colleagues I don't get along with and they are not necessarily younger...


So basically, he is saying he is a fast dinosaur. :lol:




#28 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:42

Thanks for clarifying sin/as65p :up:

I wouldn't expect Schumacher to give any quarter on that point, and he didn't.

#29 Winter98

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:49

I think it's pretty obvious that today's drivers are better and the field is tighter than in previous generations.

This is true in virtually every other sport, so I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't hold true for racing. Between ever improving training regimens, and ever more people worldwide have access to motorsports thus increasing the pool the top drivers are chosen from, it is more difficult to emerge from the pack.

Edited by Winter98, 02 January 2013 - 22:50.


#30 Diablobb81

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 22:56

His fans have been arguing against this opinion for years and it can't be good to hear the big man say it.


Maybe you could find those that "argued against this opinion for years" and show some examples. Or maybe you didn't understand what he was talking about.

#31 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 23:03

Thanks for clarifying sin/as65p :up:

I wouldn't expect Schumacher to give any quarter on that point, and he didn't.


Dunno, to me it seems he is saying he had an edge on the competition simply by setting a new standard in focusing on the job itself, and not only by being WDC material from the get go. What would a quarter be in this case? I honestly think neither he, nor Alonso can give a clear and honest clue as to the grid being stronger today and back then in terms of talent or abilities. Apart from us knowing of course that in 2012 there were 6 WDCs on the grid, which is kind of unique. You - or anybody else for that matter - cannot possibly tell what giving the grid those cars and that tech environment to race with today would do to the current pecking order. Its just not comparable anymore, F1 had evolved so much.

?

#32 Mauseri

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 23:25

Perhaps, but when you've been beaten by your teammate over the last three years that becomes completely irrelevant.

Not really. I think he would have liked to say that if F1 was still like it was in the early 90's, he would have been able to compete on top. But now because the cars and other drivers have higher working standards, he cannot overcome that handicap of a few tenths which may have come with age.

Edited by Mauseri, 02 January 2013 - 23:26.


#33 Buttoneer

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 23:30

I took that to simply mean he thinks todays drivers in that environment would simply be as fit and professional as him, but not admitting they might be as fast. I agree that nobody can possibly know whether that's true, but he was never going to admit that.

#34 jj2728

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 23:37

I took that to simply mean he thinks todays drivers in that environment would simply be as fit and professional as him, but not admitting they might be as fast. I agree that nobody can possibly know whether that's true, but he was never going to admit that.


I dunno, I'd say that there are some drivers today who are just as fast as he was in his prime. But you are correct, would he admit that? Me thinks not......

#35 1Devil1

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 23:50

I dunno, I'd say that there are some drivers today who are just as fast as he was in his prime. But you are correct, would he admit that? Me thinks not......


Why should Michael Schumacher admit something nobody knows (because you can't compare different eras) and something what would tarnish his legacy. I think Michael Schumacher seems to have his own standards here. Hamilton wouldn't go out saying Vettel or Alonso are faster than him. Drivers liked to praise another driver if they raced each other to boost their own status (Alonso about Schumacher, Alonso about Hamilton, Hamilton about Alonso). Every great driver thinks he is/was the best and is an untouchable

Would Michael Jordan admit Magic Johnson was (perhaps) better than him? Me thinks not..

#36 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 23:56

This makes what Vettel has done over the last three years even more impressive, being able to claim three successive championships in such a tight and competitive field - a much more difficult task than when Schumacher was winning with Ferrari.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 02 January 2013 - 23:57.


#37 Szoelloe

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 23:58

I took that to simply mean he thinks todays drivers in that environment would simply be as fit and professional as him, but not admitting they might be as fast. I agree that nobody can possibly know whether that's true, but he was never going to admit that.


I certainly would not admit it. :D Seriously, he is a 7x WDC, and he possibly feels he fought for it the hard way, and he possibly could be right, exactly because you cannot compare apples with oranges. That is mainly the reason I was so pissed off with Merc. They have put him in the worst possible scenario after three seasons. As a driver with his resumé, it is not possible to defend these three seasons without the cloud of doubt hovering above him. Same goes to Rosberg, because of the same clouds. The team -even if for defendeble, or valid reasons- left both of them out in the cold. Nobody is sure or objective about either of them by now. And that partly has to do with what he is saying: that the driver, with these cars, and with these tyres cannot stand out in the way a driver could stand out during the first- or early part if you wish- of his career. But believing that or not, of course is down to individual taste, and point of view.


#38 Juan Kerr

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 00:02

This makes what Vettel has done over the last three years even more impressive, being able to claim three successive championships in such a tight and competitive field - a much more difficult task than when Schumacher was winning with Ferrari.

But you're detracting from the fact that Alonso or Hamilton could've easily won this years championship but for circumstances out of Vettel's control.

#39 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 00:42

But you're detracting from the fact that Alonso or Hamilton could've easily won this years championship but for circumstances out of Vettel's control.



You are right, Alonso had a good shot at it but he wasn't able match Vettel's push down the stretch. He needed to finish ahead of Seb but couldn't, as well Vettel's drives from the back of the grid to save his championship were not flukes but a display of his great determination and skill. A very impressive display in what Schumacher says is a more competitive era than his first career, maybe the most competitive ever.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 03 January 2013 - 01:17.


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#40 Juan Kerr

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:40

You are right, Alonso had a good shot at it but he wasn't able match Vettel's push down the stretch. He needed to finish ahead of Seb but couldn't, as well Vettel's drives from the back of the grid to save his championship were not flukes but a display of his great determination and skill. A very impressive display in what Schumacher says is a more competitive era than his first career, maybe the most competitive ever.

And now detracting to the fact that Vettel had no chance of driving from the back without safety cars and little resistance from the mid-field and Hamilton doing more than enough to win lots of races but to be let down by things out of Hamilton and Vettel's control. Seb could did nothing to stop Hamilton, only McLaren.

#41 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:37

I do agree with what he is saying.

The standards he set (which were exceptional at that time) have become normal in this day in age. Everything extra drivers did backt then is just standard now, finding a little extra is much tougher in every aspect, car, rules, fitness etc.

Is the field better than the one Schumacher raced in? It might be, but the cars are a lot closer than what they were before, from 2008 onwards there doesn't seem to be a big gap between the cars (Excluding the relatively new teams).

However, there does seem to be a lot of talent in this era, even the so called 'pay drivers' have good backgrounds in racing, bar the odd one or two.

#42 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:40

And now detracting to the fact that Vettel had no chance of driving from the back without safety cars and little resistance from the mid-field and Hamilton doing more than enough to win lots of races but to be let down by things out of Hamilton and Vettel's control. Seb could did nothing to stop Hamilton, only McLaren.


What Vettel has done in what Schumacher identifies as perhaps the most competitive era of F1 racing, winning three wdc in succession, is an amazing accomplishment. Others may have been in a position to do the same but the fact is they didn't. Vettel did. The 'could have been' championships of others shouldn't detract from his success.

Edited by halifaxf1fan, 03 January 2013 - 02:58.


#43 aditya-now

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:55

-----Is the field better than the one Schumacher raced in? It might be, but the cars are a lot closer than what they were before, from 2008 onwards there doesn't seem to be a big gap between the cars (Excluding the relatively new teams).


Schumacher was not saying in the interview that the field nowadays is better than the one he raced in.

Question: Vor zehn Jahren hat man nur Mika Häkkinen auf Ihre Stufe gesetzt. Damon Hill und Jacques Villeneuve brauchten schon ein sehr gutes Auto. Ist mit Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Räikkönen, Button, Webber und Rosberg die Spitze heute nicht dichter?
Schumacher: Hatten wir damals nicht auch so viele gute Fahrer? Ich glaube, die lassen sich auch finden.


Question: "10 years ago people put only Mika Häkkinen on the same level like you. Damon Hill and Jacques Villeneuve were in need of a very good car (to beat you). Is today's field with Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Räikkönen, Button, Webber and Rosberg at the front not tighter?"
Schumacher: "Didn't we have as many good drivers back then? I think they can be found as well."


Then Schumacher goes on to compare the "qualifying races" of his first career with todays "long distance races":

Question: Früher bestand ein Grand Prix aus Qualifikationsrunden, unterbrochen durch Tankstopps. Heute ist es ein Langstreckenrennen. Wie stark mussten Sie Ihren Fahrstil anpassen?
Schumacher: Du musst deinen Fahrstil immer anpassen. Diesmal war dieser Umstellungsprozess etwas extremer. Weil die Möglichkeit als Fahrer Einfluss zu nehmen und Veränderungen herbeizuführen geringer geworden ist. Die Reifen lassen nicht mehr so viel zu. Du kannst eben nicht ständig am Limit fahren. Jeder Einsatz zu viel micht dich langsamer. Deshalb ist Langsamfahren manchmal schneller. Du musst von Anfang an mit den Reifen haushalten. Das gab es früher nur, wenn die Reifen Blasen geworfen haben. Früher konntest du dich von anderen damit abheben, dass du fast permanent am Limit gefahren bist.


His conclusion here: "Back then, you could distinguish yourself from the others by driving nearly permanently on the limit." While today he could not distinguish himself as "the tyres don't allow it so much anymore."....."That's why to drive slowly is sometimes faster today."

So a lot of misunderstanding here in this thread thanks to the language barrier.

#44 Sakae

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:48

Herein lies the problem with all these comparisons between drivers of different era, and my "anquish" with 2012 Pirelli racing tires.

Schumacher in translation by aditya-now:

"Back then, you could distinguish yourself from the others by driving nearly permanently on the limit." While today he could not distinguish himself as "the tyres don't allow it so much anymore."....."That's why to drive slowly is sometimes faster today."



#45 encircled

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:18

Thanks for the translation aditya-now.

#46 H2H

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:29

It is a great interview by AMuS. :up:

As aditya-now says, the language barrier creates a lot of misunderstandings. It is difficult to argue with his opinions about the development of F1 from technical and driver's point of view. His argument about the tyres is well supported by other persons in the sport with a good understanding of the past and the present like Wurz. Many drivers have often stated the same about todays tyres. Nobody told it Pirelli in the same way as Schumi.

Edited by H2H, 03 January 2013 - 09:32.


#47 1Devil1

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:14

It is a great interview by AMuS. :up:

As aditya-now says, the language barrier creates a lot of misunderstandings. It is difficult to argue with his opinions about the development of F1 from technical and driver's point of view. His argument about the tyres is well supported by other persons in the sport with a good understanding of the past and the present like Wurz. Many drivers have often stated the same about todays tyres. Nobody told it Pirelli in the same way as Schumi.


I read that interview in german and this is really a great piece. Schumacher knows a lot how the formula one works, that's a reason he has been so successful. He knows that a driver is no god, and the input of the driver has his limits (he understands the shifts in the recent years - drivers cant develop a car, and can't overcome a deficit). You can control your own performance but these factors outside of it are important. People often say he had Bryne and Brawn - everything on a silver plate. I guess Schumacher would answer to that, of course, but I made sure they will come to Ferrari, and what's wrong with that? Schumacher biggest strength was to control everything, every little factor - connected with his talent made him so successful. He understands that formula one is more than who is the fastest? Funny though, that approach created the biggest arguments against him (customized tires, team mates or the best machinery)

#48 pRy

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:13

This makes what Vettel has done over the last three years even more impressive, being able to claim three successive championships in such a tight and competitive field - a much more difficult task than when Schumacher was winning with Ferrari.


I'd argue it suggests the opposite.

Schumacher's point is back in the day the driver could make a big difference, where as now he sugests it's the car that makes the difference and the drivers input is reduced. Ie.. you can get the best driver ever to have raced in F1, put him in a current era car.. and the difference he can make to the cars overall pace is much less than in the past. Their tool box is reduced. When you have a car with not much aero grip etc that slips and slides around, the driver has more room to make a difference. Their reflexes become more important. How they approach corners becomes more important. They can slide. They can work the wheel. They can do a lot more.

Where as now, we're in a 'Playstation' generation where all the cars and drivers take the same lines, and any variation is seen as a mistake. And in terms of Redbull.. there is no denying that this car has been the stand out car in terms of aerodynamic grip since they hit form. The way the Redbull has been able to take certain corners hasn't been replicated by any of the other teams. And the credit for that goes to Newey, not Vettel.

Now of course there is the counter argument that the drivers can only drive what is available.. and it shouldn't be used to suggest Vettel isn't a good driver. I'm sure that's not what Schumacher is suggesting either. I think Schumacher is possibly just frustrated that he wasn't able to personally make as much difference to the pace of the car as he would have liked. And he clearly doesn't believe it's because he's lost his ability to make a difference.. just that the regulations prevent him from doing so.


#49 Rikhart

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:20

I'd argue it suggests the opposite.

Schumacher's point is back in the day the driver could make a big difference, where as now he sugests it's the car that makes the difference and the drivers input is reduced. Ie.. you can get the best driver ever to have raced in F1, put him in a current era car.. and the difference he can make to the cars overall pace is much less than in the past. Their tool box is reduced. When you have a car with not much aero grip etc that slips and slides around, the driver has more room to make a difference. Their reflexes become more important. How they approach corners becomes more important. They can slide. They can work the wheel. They can do a lot more.

Where as now, we're in a 'Playstation' generation where all the cars and drivers take the same lines, and any variation is seen as a mistake. And in terms of Redbull.. there is no denying that this car has been the stand out car in terms of aerodynamic grip since they hit form. The way the Redbull has been able to take certain corners hasn't been replicated by any of the other teams. And the credit for that goes to Newey, not Vettel.

Now of course there is the counter argument that the drivers can only drive what is available.. and it shouldn't be used to suggest Vettel isn't a good driver. I'm sure that's not what Schumacher is suggesting either. I think Schumacher is possibly just frustrated that he wasn't able to personally make as much difference to the pace of the car as he would have liked. And he clearly doesn't believe it's because he's lost his ability to make a difference.. just that the regulations prevent him from doing so.


I think thats exactly what he meant- that the cars being so stable and predictable, allow lesser drivers to look good (by being much easier to take to the limit, and with mostly asphalt run-off areas, you can even go beyond with little penalty), and takes away the potencial for the best to make a big difference like in the past. Couple that with the dreadful egg-tyres, and you have current F1.

#50 aditya-now

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:47

I'm sure that's not what Schumacher is suggesting either. I think Schumacher is possibly just frustrated that he wasn't able to personally make as much difference to the pace of the car as he would have liked. And he clearly doesn't believe it's because he's lost his ability to make a difference.. just that the regulations prevent him from doing so.


Monaco 2012 is an excellent case in point. When the Mercedes was arguably the fastest in the first half of 2012 (in all the three years 2010 - 2012) Michael managed to string it together on a pure drivers' circuit - Monaco. It says something about his capability - it is undeniable. Also Monaco is an excellent showcase why Michael thought that Ayrton Senna was the best of all times - there were at least two times when Ayrton won the Monaco GP in a much less competitive car. But I disgress.

Rosberg's performance in Monaco 2012 outlines that the Mercedes was at the top of its performance there - Nico could have won that GP, would it not have been for an excellent, circumspect Webber.