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What are Lewis's chances of winning 2013 WDC? [split]


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#101 Markn93

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 18:20

I think the real question is "what are the chances Mercedes provide Lewis with a car/organisational operation capable of winning the WDC", if that is fulfilled then his chances are good. I take it the title of this thread is reflective of this question rather than a question of Lewis' ability, because obviously he's good enough to win the WDC.

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#102 joshb

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 19:32

Without knowing the cars, hard to say but I'd be surprised if Merc have caught up and even then if they could sustain development through the year.
I put money on him at 16/1 because if the cars quick, bookies will panic and he'll shorten very quickly, but I'm not expecting a return. Even though it each way, there's too many very good drivers for Hamilton to get top 3 if there are 2 or 3 teams faster than Mercedes

#103 jjcale

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 20:07

I disagree that looking at Mercedes progress over the past few years, and the final updates they bought at the end of 2012, and judging it very unlikely that they will produce a car superior to Red Bull and McLaren and Ferrari is 'stupid'.

Given that the regs are stable I would also disagree that it is 'stupid' to speculate that Mercedes do not have a strong base platform or understanding of the current regs. I don't think it is 'stupid' to suggest that they have lost ground to the teams ahead of and around them, which will require either
a) A fundementally different car for 2013, which is unlikely to be definitively quick out of the box and will require updates and work to develop just to get to the level many of the others are already at. Not the best way to forge a championship winning campaign
b) A magic wand to make the current philosophy work

I think I have a fair understanding of F1, but if this is a stupid opinion to have, then sling your mud.

99% of what is written on this board is speculation, even if its well informed speculation.


Its not the same design team as before and its not an evolution of last year's car... this is a case where we genuinely have to wait and see what they come up with.

I appreciate the difficulty of the task before them but I have no expectations one way or the other.

What I find surprising and disappointing is the firmness of the opinions expressed.... in a situation where not only has the new Merc not yet done a lap but no 2013 cars have even been launched as yet :drunk:

Edited by jjcale, 05 January 2013 - 20:08.


#104 PretentiousBread

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 20:42

Its not the same design team as before and its not an evolution of last year's car... this is a case where we genuinely have to wait and see what they come up with.

I appreciate the difficulty of the task before them but I have no expectations one way or the other.

What I find surprising and disappointing is the firmness of the opinions expressed.... in a situation where not only has the new Merc not yet done a lap but no 2013 cars have even been launched as yet :drunk:


Here's why, and I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating:

http://www.youtube.c...be_gdata_player

#105 spacekid

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:38

Its not the same design team as before and its not an evolution of last year's car... this is a case where we genuinely have to wait and see what they come up with.

I appreciate the difficulty of the task before them but I have no expectations one way or the other.

What I find surprising and disappointing is the firmness of the opinions expressed.... in a situation where not only has the new Merc not yet done a lap but no 2013 cars have even been launched as yet :drunk:


No, but the design team were present in 2012. If they were watching what was happening as the team stormed its way towards the middle of the grid and just fiddled with the change in their pockets then thats dissapointing. I wish my job was so easy for such renumeration. Maybe I'll give Ross a call.

The updates at the end of 2012 were poor - are you really telling me that none of the new design team had any impact on these at all? How strange.

Are you certain that the new car is not an evolution of last years - its an entirely new F1 car from scratch? Do you have a source for this, as I am genuinely surprised.

We shall see. I still think its very unlikely that the W04 will be equal to the cars Red Bull, Ferrari, Merc and probably Lotus are able to produce, given that all these teams closed out the last season with an apparently superior understanding of the current format.

Edited by spacekid, 05 January 2013 - 21:41.


#106 redbarron

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:47

I certainly can't discount Mercedes getting up the top, but i'm just not sure it will be 2013.

#107 Con1

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:05

Basically 0%

He'll do well to get couple of wins and podiums here and there.

This is the whole thing in a nutshell for me. Realistically, I think Lewis has no chance of winning the title.

But I also expect him to get a couple of wins.

And then I start thinking about Kimi being in the title race for so long this year. And Alonso leading the championship at the halfway stage when the car was so far off the pace at the start of the season. And I start to get a little carried away...

For Lewis to win the WDC a lot of stars need to align...a much better car than 2012...consistently finish in the points...maximise every opportunity...virtually no DNFs...no new tricks from the top teams...RBR not to be able to do their quali and run off and hide tactic...RG to run into as many front runners as he did this year etc, etc, etc.

I live in hope.

My worry is that if this year is as bad as last for Merc, will it really be any better in 2014? This year has to show real improvement to give hope for 2014. Frankly I would settle for the year like Kimi had in 2012.

#108 Kelateboy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:25

Are you certain that the new car is not an evolution of last years - its an entirely new F1 car from scratch? Do you have a source for this, as I am genuinely surprised.

Niki Lauda said W04 will be a completely new car, and not an evolution of W03.

http://www.f1sa.com/...c...&Itemid=157

#109 Bruce

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:47

If the W04 IS a completely new car, it's bad news (for Mercedes). Evolutions work better than "carte blanche" 95% of the time. There was nothing wrong with last year'sMercedes as proven by their victory in China - they merely buggered the development.

As to the thread... Hamilton's chance of winning the WDC next year???

Nil. Null. Zero.

If he couldn't win in a McLaren, what makes you think that he'll win in a 4th best car? Or is Mercedes miraculously going to jump into 1st place just as hamilton joins?

hamilton will likely hav a positive year next season - I look forward to watching him. But I honestly think that anyone who thinks he will be fighting for the WDC iafter race 4 is delusional. You can quote me on that. This is not a comment on hamilton's skill. It is a comment on where Mercedes is vis-a-vis their development. Even hamilton was promised that NEXT year would be the opportunity.

#110 Bruce

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:47

If the W04 IS a completely new car, it's bad news (for Mercedes). Evolutions work better than "carte blanche" 95% of the time. There was nothing wrong with last year'sMercedes as proven by their victory in China - they merely buggered the development.

As to the thread... Hamilton's chance of winning the WDC next year???

Nil. Null. Zero.

If he couldn't win in a McLaren, what makes you think that he'll win in a 4th best car? Or is Mercedes miraculously going to jump into 1st place just as hamilton joins?

hamilton will likely hav a positive year next season - I look forward to watching him. But I honestly think that anyone who thinks he will be fighting for the WDC iafter race 4 is delusional. You can quote me on that. This is not a comment on hamilton's skill. It is a comment on where Mercedes is vis-a-vis their development. Even hamilton was promised that the following year would be the opportunity.

#111 caso

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:54

I wouldn't count him out. During the first third of the season the Mercedes looked promising. For the upcoming season I don't expect a vastly superior car like the Brawn in 2009 but I also don't expect a dog. Given how early in the 2012-season they started to develope the car for 2013 I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton became a contender for the WDC. But I would be very surprised if both Mercedes-drivers didn't win a race or two.

#112 spacekid

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:35

Niki Lauda said W04 will be a completely new car, and not an evolution of W03.

http://www.f1sa.com/...c...&Itemid=157


Thats interresting, thanks.

I still think this will give Mercedes the problem of having a very limited amount of time to understand the new car and get it working properly, even if they do manage to nail a design that avoids the problems of the previous few cars. Teams like Red Bull started off with a good concept and have had plenty of time to understand and refine it.

I still don't think its unreasonable to think that Merc will be playing catch up to other teams with the W04.

#113 garoidb

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:53

Thats interresting, thanks.

I still think this will give Mercedes the problem of having a very limited amount of time to understand the new car and get it working properly, even if they do manage to nail a design that avoids the problems of the previous few cars. Teams like Red Bull started off with a good concept and have had plenty of time to understand and refine it.

I still don't think its unreasonable to think that Merc will be playing catch up to other teams with the W04.


Apart from performance, there are also the questions of reliability and, for want of a better word, operations (strategy, efficiency in the pit stops etc). These would all need to be instantly improved to the level of other WDC challengers to avoid falling behind early in the season. All these things would have to come together for Mercedes, whereas other teams are already up to scratch in some of these areas (e.g. Ferrari for reliability, McLaren for pace).

I suspect that by mid-2013, Mercedes will be focussing on 2014 (perhaps logically so).

#114 Juan Kerr

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:58

Not the championship perhaps but he may score the same number of wins as Alonso, Rosberg will not touch Hamilton.

#115 garoidb

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:12

Not the championship perhaps but he may score the same number of wins as Alonso, Rosberg will not touch Hamilton.


That is certainly the expectation.

#116 Szoelloe

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:24

Apart from performance, there are also the questions of reliability and, for want of a better word, operations (strategy, efficiency in the pit stops etc). These would all need to be instantly improved to the level of other WDC challengers to avoid falling behind early in the season. All these things would have to come together for Mercedes, whereas other teams are already up to scratch in some of these areas (e.g. Ferrari for reliability, McLaren for pace).

I suspect that by mid-2013, Mercedes will be focussing on 2014 (perhaps logically so).


reliability was ok in the second half of the season, so, no, I don't agree, I hardly think there will be a problem with that. The word you are looking for is track operations, I have my own question marks on that, but not on the pit-crew anymore, it was quite ok by the second part again. You haven't paid much attention though as to the "focusing" part. Part of the design team is already focusing on 2014 since mid-2012. It should not hinder this season in any way. They certainly have at least 6 months of headway on anybody else there. So no, they will not give up 2013 midway, at least def not because they have to re-group resources. They most certainly have enough of that.


#117 Szoelloe

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:28

That is certainly the expectation.


uhmm, I am not so sure about that. I am sure LH will not be thrashing NR in the way many of you guys think.


#118 onewingedangel

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 12:36

That is certainly the expectation.


As it was for Button - so I wouldn't count Rosberg out.


In terms of the chances of a Mercedes driver winning the world title in 2013 it has to be a long shot based on previous form.

But if Lotus' funding was constrained a few months ago they may be behind on development, could be caught/overtaken.

McLaren may run into issues with their chages to the car (if rumours are true of higher chassis, revised suspension etc.) - McLaren usually have pretty good correlation in terms of performance, but usually have reliability concerns if they try and push a concept too far. They could prove strong, but could also struggle.

Ferrari, again, will likely revise the car significantly so may run into issues.

Red Bull were fighting and developing to the end and may be behind on development of the RB9. More likely a straight evolution though, but we could be surprised.

If the Mercedes team hit the ground running and the other teams have their issues there is a shout of a Mercedes WDC - but it would be precipitated by all rivals having issues as much as any genuine increase in comparative performance from Mercedes, so quite unlikely.


If we see Button cruising to another WDC, I expect another Lewis meltdown - with Rosberg able to capitalise.

Edited by onewingedangel, 06 January 2013 - 12:39.


#119 garoidb

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:06

uhmm, I am not so sure about that. I am sure LH will not be thrashing NR in the way many of you guys think.


I should be clear. I think Rosberg may be at around Button's level, so it will not be a thrashing. Lewis is widely expected to beat Rosberg over the season, otherwise there would not have been much point signing him. I think Lewis will come out ahead overall, but Nico will do better in some races.

Edit: Hence, I was not really referring to my own expectations in my earlier post.

Edited by garoidb, 06 January 2013 - 13:07.


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#120 garoidb

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:11

If we see Button cruising to another WDC, I expect another Lewis meltdown - with Rosberg able to capitalise.


I think he must have gotten that type of frustration out of his system in 2011. Having kept it together while Vettel gets WDC number 3, I doubt he would be too worried about Button. There would be a meltdown on here, though.

#121 Juggles

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 13:24

That is certainly the expectation.


Not of the vast majority of Hamilton fans it isn't. Rosberg is a highly rated driver, probably sixth or seventh in most people's books. We have nowhere near enough evidence to say "Rosberg will not touch Hamilton." I think he will (though hopefully only in a figurative sense).

By that I mean there will be qualifying sessions and races where Rosberg beats Hamilton fair and square, though I believe Hamilton is the better driver and thus will outperform Rosberg. To expect the level of domination implied by "will not touch" against a well respected driver is unreasonable, at least at this stage.

#122 Coops3

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:56

I've read through all the posts in this thread, and apart from the OP, haven't come across anyone who thinks he'll be fighting for the title. I think giving him zero chance is far more outlandish than saying he's got a chance. I'd give him a 4% or 5% chance.

Edited by Coops3, 06 January 2013 - 16:56.


#123 Winter98

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:58

On betfair, he is the 4th most likely driver to win the WDC with an implied chance of 7% - 8%.


That seems reasonably accurate. Odds of him winning in 2013 are pretty long, considering where Mercedes was this year.

Hamilton is being given a great opportunity at Mercedes imo, to be the undisputed #1 driver, to learn a different team approach, to be the leader of a team. I think there is good chance he will succeed, so for me, while the odds are long in 2013, I think they go up considerably in 2014, and up again for 2015.

#124 Winter98

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 16:59

We have nowhere near enough evidence to say "Rosberg will not touch Hamilton." I think he will (though hopefully only in a figurative sense).


:p

#125 moorsey

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:23

I remain optimistic for 2013. I consider Lewis to be one of the top 3 drivers so should be able to wring the blood out of the new Merc plus I also believe that the new Merc will be an evolution of all the best bits of the best cars of 2012. With a new chassis, less restriction from the ddrs and correct exhaust/aero configuration they will have every chance.

#126 mlsnoopy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:25

It all depends on the car.


#127 Kingshark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:11

What are Lewis's chances of winning 2013 WDC?

With BAR Honda?

Posted Image

#128 Shiroo

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:31

0%
/thread

#129 F1AC

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:36

Higher than Alonso's chances.

#130 Kingshark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:39

Higher than Alonso's chances.

:rotfl:

Do you honestly have more faith in Brackley than you have in Maranello?

In the past 14 years, BAR Honda (now known as Mercedes) has beaten Ferrari once in the final standings. :stoned:

But sure, believe whatever makes you sleep at night. :kiss:

#131 F1AC

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:42

:rotfl:

Do you honestly have more faith in Brackley than you have in Maranello?

In the past 14 years, BAR Honda (now known as Mercedes) has beaten Ferrari once in the final standings. :stoned:

But sure, believe whatever makes you sleep at night. :kiss:


Fanboy alert.

No, Vettel will walk it.
But Ferrari got out qualified by Mercs and Force India's at the end of last season, rules are the same.
Alonso/Hamilton pretty much equal ability, Ferrari can't build a good car now, it's not 2004, fans need to face that.


#132 Kingshark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:53

Fanboy alert.

No comment.

No, Vettel will walk it.

Just like he was going to walk 2012?

Yes, he is the favorite, but I feel no reason to believe that 2013 will be total domination in a sport where today, everything is so close.

But Ferrari got out qualified by Mercs and Force India's at the end of last season, rules are the same.

They did? Qualifying means nothing when your race pace is like this;



Mercedes being equal to Ferrari on qualifying pace means nothing when you compare their race pace. How many times have Ferrari lapped Mercedes this season?

Alonso/Hamilton pretty much equal ability,

I agree with that.

Ferrari can't build a good car now, it's not 2004, fans need to face that.

And the 2006, 2007, 2008 or 2010 Ferrari's were crap? According to your belief, Ferrari can't build a good car but appearantly BAR Honda can do better?

Ferrari have proven that they can strike back from periods of disappointment. It's only a matter of time before the most successful team in F1 history finds it's mojo again. BAR Honda on the other hand...

Hamilton's move to Brackley is a mistake, a huge mistake. A team which has designed one good car in the past 14 years, and has been announcing big upgrades to finally become competitive since 1999.

Edited by Kingshark, 06 January 2013 - 21:58.


#133 F1AC

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:57

No comment.

Just like he was going to walk 2012?

Yes, he is the favorite, but I feel no reason to believe that 2013 will be total domination in a sport where today, everything is so close.

They did? Qualifying means nothing when your race pace is like this;



Mercedes being equal to Ferrari on qualifying pace means nothing when you compare their race pace. How many times have Ferrari lapped Mercedes this season?

I agree with that.

And the 2007, 2008 or 2010 Ferrari's were crap? According to your belief, Ferrari can't build a good car but appearantly BAR Honda can do better?

Ferrari have proven that they can strike back from periods of disappointment. It's only a matter of time before the most successful team in F1 history finds it's mojo again. Brackley on the other hand.

Hamilton's move to Brackley is a mistake, a huge mistake. A team which has designed one good car in the past 14 years, and has been announcing big upgrades to finally become competitive since 1999.


Don't remember a lot saying he was going to walk it in 2012, people said McLaren and Ferrari were the favourites without the EBD.

Sorry, I forgot how Alonso is the god and brings 2 seconds to any car, the 2011 Ferrari was just as good as the 2011 Merc.

And I never said Merc can do better, I just said he's got more chance of winning the WDC than Alonso. To be honest nobody other than Vettel has a realistic chance.

Edited by F1AC, 06 January 2013 - 22:00.


#134 Kingshark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:12

Don't remember a lot saying he was going to walk it in 2012, people said McLaren and Ferrari were the favourites without the EBD.

I guess I read different blogs than you.

Sorry, I forgot how Alonso is the god and brings 2 seconds to any car, the 2011 Ferrari was just as good as the 2011 Merc.

Er, no it wasn't. If Merc was on par with Ferrari; Rosberg and Schumacher definitely would've outscored Massa that season.

Also I never claimed Alonso is God. Although I find it quite ironic that you capitalize Alonso yet spell God with a lower-case G. :p

And I never said Merc can do better, I just said he's got more chance of winning the WDC than Alonso. To be honest nobody other than Vettel has a realistic chance.

A realistic chance? Vettel beat Alonso by 4 points in 2010 and 3 points last year. Also remember than DRS ban in qualy should help Ferrari eliminate the oversteer they had on hot laps.

Still haven't given me one convincing reason to believe Mercedes has more potential than Ferrari to take the challenge to Red Bull in 2013. Maranello outclass Brackley in every department.

Unfortunately for Lewis, there's something within the culture of the BAR Honda team that simply doesn't allow it to be successful. For one, rarely does the team start the season off with a good car. Secondly, car development is almost non-existent. All that despite having a very wealthy budget.

If Lewis wants to be as successful as possible, than I'm afraid Brackley is virtually career-suicidal. Ask Jenson, who had to wait 6 dismal years before that team finally gave him one winning car in his 7th season with the team.

Edited by Kingshark, 06 January 2013 - 22:14.


#135 F1AC

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:15

Why would the DRS ban make a difference, you don't use it in corners, sure it'll make Red Bull lose 2-3 tenths because of their system they had in late 2012 but it won't make a difference in corners.
"Rarely does the team start the season off with a good car" Pretty sure they did in 2012 but okay.

When was the last time Ferrari were fighting for wins for the first 4/5 races of a season? 2004?

I can't see Ferrari taking the fight to RBR either, it's going to be McLaren (or Button) vs Red Bull and thats it.
Kimi/Alonso/Lewis will probably take occasional podiums and maybe one/two wins if the top two slip up.

Edited by F1AC, 06 January 2013 - 22:19.


#136 Kingshark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:25

Why would the DRS ban make a difference, you don't use it in corners, sure it'll make Red Bull lose 2-3 tenths because of their system they had in late 2012 but it won't make a difference in corners.

I will respond to this in the Ferrari thread, which would be the correct place for this topic.

"Rarely does the team start the season off with a good car" Pretty sure they did in 2012 but okay.

Only in China. They had horrendous race pace on any circuit where the tarmac was hot. This team has always struggled with tyre management.

When was the last time Ferrari were fighting for wins for the first 4/5 races of a season? 2004?

2004, 2006, 2007, 2008 & 2010. They also had a race-winning car for half of the 2012 season.

On the other hand, other than 2009 has Brackley ever build a winning car? They've been announcing car updates since 1999. Unfortunately, there's always been something wrong with the setup or the tyres, which prevented them from reaching their full potential which is obviously the championship, based on what they talk themselves up to.

Don't worry, the next circuit will suit their car better. :kiss:

Edited by Kingshark, 06 January 2013 - 22:29.


#137 F1AC

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 22:30

No, 2006 only Bahrain, 2007 only Bahrain onwards, 2008 they weren't anywhere in Australia, 2010 they only challenged in Bahrain then dropped off. Should have actually read what I asked.

I'm not a fan of the Mercedes team, so it's pointless asking me these questions. Although you obviously can't handle it when someone criticises Alonso or Ferrari.

Don't worry, there's always next year to throw away a 40 point lead ;)

Posted Image

PS. Slightly ironic that your profile says your favourite driver/team is Rosberg/Mercedes, when did you switch to Ferrari? :rotfl:

Anyway this isn't the Ferrari thread, goodbye.

Edited by F1AC, 06 January 2013 - 22:38.


#138 Kingshark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 23:08

This discussion has gone completely off topic. From Mercedes to Ferrari. Whatever, but you are still worth responding to.

PS. Slightly ironic that your profile says your favourite driver/team is Rosberg/Mercedes, when did you switch to Ferrari?

Thanks for reminding me to switch my settings change my profile, which I filled in 9 months ago. :drunk:

I liked Mercedes... before the misery they put both Michael and Nico through this year.

BTW, I don't even like Alonso that much; I only support him because he's at Ferrari. I loathed him back in his Renault/Mclaren days.

Edited by Kingshark, 06 January 2013 - 23:15.


#139 Longtimefan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 23:08

Hamilton winning the WDC in a Merc?

*falls off chair laughing*


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#140 Kingshark

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 23:13

Hamilton winning the WDC in a Merc?

*falls off chair laughing*

Schumacher fans know what it's like. ;)

Seriously, anyone with some decent modesty who has been watching F1 knows that, even though Ferrari aren't the team they were back in 2004, they still have a much better chance of beating Red Bull next season.

Those clowns at Brackley on the other hand...

#141 F1AC

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 23:22

This discussion has gone completely off topic. From Mercedes to Ferrari. Whatever, but you are still worth responding to.

Thanks for reminding me to switch my settings change my profile, which I filled in 9 months ago. :drunk:

I liked Mercedes... before the misery they put both Michael and Nico through this year.

BTW, I don't even like Alonso that much; I only support him because he's at Ferrari. I loathed him back in his Renault/Mclaren days.


So you hated Alonso, but now you like him? Facepalm.
"I liked Mercedes but now I decided to switch to Ferrari and Alonso because they were 2nd in 2012"

Isn't your old golden boy Ross Brawn at Merc? Or were you supporting someone else then :rotfl:

Switching to Ferrari because Merc were rubbish in 2012, great loyalty there :up:

"I don't even like Alonso that much, I'm a Ferrari fan" yet Massa is nowhere to be seen on your profile.

Hang on a second, I've just seen your post from earlier today where you say "Let's hope for Lewis, Nico and Brackley; that 2013 will be more 2009 and less 2012"
Surely if it was more 2009 they'd have more chance than Alonso?

Then a few hours later you're saying how hopeless they are, bipolar?

Edited by F1AC, 06 January 2013 - 23:26.


#142 Coops3

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 00:09

^^ hoping and expecting are two differemt things.

#143 F1AC

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 00:42

Yeah but in the same thread he's saying the 2010/2011 cars weren't that bad, contradicting what he said earlier here.
Even so, one minute he's supporting them, the other he's saying how bad they are. Make your mind up.

#144 Mauseri

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:22

I think changing the driver indicates they believe new car will be competitive to fight. Otherwise it would have been easy to extend Schumi for 1 year.

#145 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 02:14

Well last years car was from scratch was it not? Ran well in the first half of the season DDRS or not.

This year, they have a new driver in his prime, they've sorted out their technical side and have a lead engineer, the team of engineers that came in 2011/2012 have had a year of working together, got the wind tunnel sorted out, also have had more time for their car even if it's been developed from scratch.

So I'm not sure why they are getting written off so easily, they may have not had the best of years in 2010 and 2011, but 2012 was promising until they ran into internal problems, with that sorted out, they could be up there.

They might be like Lotus was this year, only a little better and more consistent due to their budget.

#146 George Costanza

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:03

The same Brackley team since BAR days? He won't win a championship there. I am sorry to say that.



#147 George Costanza

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 03:07

Schumacher fans know what it's like.;)

Seriously, anyone with some decent modesty who has been watching F1 knows that, even though Ferrari aren't the team they were back in 2004, they still have a much better chance of beating Red Bull next season.
Those clowns at Brackley on the other hand...



THis is correct.

Ferrari are the only team that can stop Red Bull. McLaren with Button; they won't do it. Button doesn't have the killer "strength" that Alonso has...



#148 pingu666

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:25

i think he might be able to stealth a title challenge similer to kimi did this year, if merc step up there game, and they might. average media view is if you got lewis/alonso/vettel you should be atleast challenging for wins, that might help motivate the team, or it might not.

we also get a good benchmark for nico :D,



#149 moorsey

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:56

Happy birthday Lewis. Enjoy the season.

#150 sopa

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:29

Qualifying means nothing when your race pace is like this;


Wow, OMG. I didn't remember the car was THAT bad. It literally looks like racing with HRT at the front of the grid. Drivers around are 3-5 secs per lap faster. Mindboggling.