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What are Lewis's chances of winning 2013 WDC? [split]


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#351 mattferg

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:00

You hit the nail right in the head, I especially love the bold part.

As I said before:


-refers to above post.

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#352 JustinD

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:01

"As usual in F1, the quickest or best car will win the championship in the end,"
- Fernando Alonso



So now you trust Alonso's opinion on everything or only the things you agree with?

#353 Anderis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:04

Any season in which Felipe Massa and Lewis Hamilton end up with almost identical points, you know that Massa drove the better car.

This is a flawed assumption. Hamilton was making a load of unncecessary mistakes in 2008. That's why Massa was able to challenge him.

Ferrari could be a bit faster car throughout the season. But I wouldn't say it was a better car considering reliability.

Edited by Anderis, 07 March 2013 - 09:04.


#354 JustinD

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:05

This is a flawed assumption. Hamilton was making a load of unncecessary mistakes in 2008. That's why Massa was able to challenge him.


Massa was making even more mistakes in 2008 in case you forgot.

#355 Anderis

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:14

Massa was making even more mistakes in 2008 in case you forgot.

No, I didn't forget.
The only mistake that costed Massa points that year was his spin in Malaysia. He made a mistake in Australia, but it was irrelevant since he had an engine failure at the end. He made a spin in Monaco but it didn't cost him a single point. He caused a collision in Japan, but he screwed himself as well as Hamilton by that move.

On the other hand Hamilton made some mistakes in Bahrain, big one in Canada, cutting the chicane (penalised) in France, then controvelsial penalties for moves in Japan, Belgium. In those circumstances, Hamilton lost more points than Massa due to his mistakes that season.

#356 GS1

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:20

Nil-Rosberg will beat him!

#357 JustinD

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:40

No, I didn't forget.
The only mistake that costed Massa points that year was his spin in Malaysia. He made a mistake in Australia, but it was irrelevant since he had an engine failure at the end. He made a spin in Monaco but it didn't cost him a single point. He caused a collision in Japan, but he screwed himself as well as Hamilton by that move.

On the other hand Hamilton made some mistakes in Bahrain, big one in Canada, cutting the chicane (penalised) in France, then controvelsial penalties for moves in Japan, Belgium. In those circumstances, Hamilton lost more points than Massa due to his mistakes that season.



You forgot Silverstone and all his spins. Japan cost him points as well, so did Monza qualifying, so its pretty close. You should also include the team mistakes or failures, like Singapore, and Hungary, and Australia with the engine, because in this case they are no different to driver mistakes, as they all cost points at the end of the day, so despite all those massive points losses from his team and himself, Massa was basically equal with Lewis.

#358 eronrules

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 09:47

hamilton's chance of winning is slim, very slim. he'll win races and podiums, but i'm not convinced of MGP's rate of development, i'd expect them to abandon 2013 car by june/july completely if score tally isn't impressive. yes lewis can drag it to podium, but i expect him to be at best third fastest, on paar with lotusF1. the only factor that can help him is if the weather Gods look favorably to him, look what alonso did last year.

so interms of percentage, i'd give 25% chance of winning the WDC.

#359 mattferg

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:04

You forgot Silverstone and all his spins. Japan cost him points as well, so did Monza qualifying, so its pretty close. You should also include the team mistakes or failures, like Singapore, and Hungary, and Australia with the engine, because in this case they are no different to driver mistakes, as they all cost points at the end of the day, so despite all those massive points losses from his team and himself, Massa was basically equal with Lewis.


So Massa and Hamilton are both 2008 champion then? Someone phone Luis Antonio!

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#360 rasul

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:18

Lewis's chances depend on the car. If the car is good enough, he can do it. If not, Lewis isn't a miracle worker. No driver is, no matter how good he is. No driver can "outperform" the car, contrary to popular belief.

#361 oligc94

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:24

Lewis's chances depend on the car. If the car is good enough, he can do it. If not, Lewis isn't a miracle worker. No driver is, no matter how good he is. No driver can "outperform" the car, contrary to popular belief.


Spot on, although there are certain drivers that can more consistently push the car to its limits than others. If one car is slightly slower at ultimate pace, but has a driver who can get very close to that ultimate pace, it has a chance of beating faster cars.

#362 slmk

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:31

You forgot Silverstone and all his spins. Japan cost him points as well, so did Monza qualifying, so its pretty close. You should also include the team mistakes or failures, like Singapore, and Hungary, and Australia with the engine, because in this case they are no different to driver mistakes, as they all cost points at the end of the day, so despite all those massive points losses from his team and himself, Massa was basically equal with Lewis.


Massa had to rely on Kimi letting him through in China, on controversial penalties dised out by Mosley's cronies (Spa, Japan), and on McLaren stupidity in Brazil to stay alive in the title race.

People always speak about mistakes made by Massa and Hamilton, but truly everyone had a bad season relative to their standards, Kimi & Alonso included (arguably their worst season, at least for Kimi).

#363 slmk

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 10:32

Spot on, although there are certain drivers that can more consistently push the car to its limits than others. If one car is slightly slower at ultimate pace, but has a driver who can get very close to that ultimate pace, it has a chance of beating faster cars.


Lewis in the MP4-24 at tracks where it was allowed to shine (slightly) made the most of it; Australia, Bahrain, Hungary, Singapore, Japan, Abu Dhabi.

#364 maverick69

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:01

Spot on, although there are certain drivers that can more consistently push the car to its limits than others. If one car is slightly slower at ultimate pace, but has a driver who can get very close to that ultimate pace, it has a chance of beating faster cars.


Indeed. Ergo certain drivers are sought after more than others......

#365 Dzeidzei

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 11:52

Hamilton is capable of winning the championship with the second best car, and he's shown it before, and he can do it again w/ Mercedes.


Well, first he needs to beat Nico which is nowhere near a done deal. Nico just spent 2 years whipping the ass of god, remember.

I know Ham fans think he´s the god almighty, but Merc pairing is really the battle of 13.

#366 PretentiousBread

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:31

Well, first he needs to beat Nico which is nowhere near a done deal. Nico just spent 2 years whipping the ass of god, remember.

I know Ham fans think he´s the god almighty, but Merc pairing is really the battle of 13.


I agree, i'm a Hamilton fan and I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that he will prevail over Rosberg at all, - Nico is demon fast over a lap when he wants to be and the cheese tyres suit him more than they do Hamilton. Even if he finishes behind him though, there would most likely be enough indication by the end of it that Hamilton is all in all the better driver, independent of circumstances, in the same manner that Di Resta finished behind Sutil in 2011 but showed himself to be probably the more capable driver, just for example.

#367 undersquare

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 12:57

One quick correction: JB didn't 'match' Lewis on points, he beat him. The reason this argument is used is because in both 2010 and 2012 JB finished directly behind LH in the WDC, suggesting they both got roughly the same out of the car on average, and Lewis just beat him. In 2011 however, Button thrashed Hamilton and finished three places higher. Either Hamilton underperformed in the car or Button overperformed. You choose :-) You can't say the same about the other seasons, even if you argue 2012 was all about reliability, as it's known LH is rougher on his cars and this may have played a factor.

Jenson led Lewis on merit about 3 races per season, the normal sight was Lewis a few places ahead. At McLaren there was Latham, good riddance lol, now it'll be Bonnington/Clear. In 2012 Lewis lost at least 170 points to non-driving factors, Jenson about 20.

So Jenson's relative points score is no guide to what we're about to see. LH detractors cling to the points, but it's a bit deceitful if the driving is what's being talked about.

On Nico I'm prepared to be surprised, but if he's in Lewis' class I will be surprised that somehow nobody's noticed until now.

#368 eronrules

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:01

Jenson led Lewis on merit about 3 races per season, the normal sight was Lewis a few places ahead. At McLaren there was Latham, good riddance lol, now it'll be Bonnington/Clear. In 2012 Lewis lost at least 170 points to non-driving factors, Jenson about 20.

So Jenson's relative points score is no guide to what we're about to see. LH detractors cling to the points, but it's a bit deceitful if the driving is what's being talked about.

On Nico I'm prepared to be surprised, but if he's in Lewis' class I will be surprised that somehow nobody's noticed until now.


not this shit again :down:

#369 PretentiousBread

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:12

So surely if Raikkonen majorly underperformed, and Heikki also did badly, but Massa and Hamilton made the same amount of mistakes, the fact Hamilton won shows he was in the better car? #logic

As for your 'better car in race weekend' list, we all know from this year how subjective that can be, especially like this year with 6 cars in the mix, and as such it doesn't show the Ferrari was better, as said before, it's your opinion. Also, what with Heikki not being nearly as fast as Massa/Raikkonen/Hamilton (backed up by the fact those 3 are still in F1 and he isn't) suggests this may skew analysis of the McLaren's performance. A lot of people look at Heikki driving the car as its true pace, and Hamilton just making the car faster as he's normally believed to... but tbh I doubt Heikki would've driven that car as fast as Button or Perez would've.


That's just a completely facile argument. But i'm not surprised, anyone who genuinely believes the Ferrari was an inferior car in 07/08 obviously wasn't watching very closely. At absolute worst it was McLaren's equal, but I would still strongly contend that argument.

You can't even begin to compare 07/08 with 2012's first batch of races - those two years were almost exclusively a McLaren/Ferrari slugfest, on durable, predictable and well understood tyres, in lighter cars driven to their limits, where it was much easier to read and quantify car performance. The first part of 2012 by comparison was a veritable crapshoot, summed up nicely by Paddy Lowe when he said "The more we understand the tyres the more we realise we don't understand them". Measuring 07/08 is not nearly as subjective as you'd like make believe; in 2007 Ferrari had 12/17 fastest laps, in 2008 it was 13/18 - that's 71% & 72% respectively in their favour (fastest laps being a lot more meaningful in the refuelling era than they are now). They also enjoyed more pole positions and wins in this time. I'd have preferred not to resort to statistics - I prefer using my eyes and brain when watching F1 - but when you're faced with someone who thinks black and white is some sort of subjective debate they come in handy.

I agree Button/Perez most likely would have fared better in the races than Kovalainen did in 2008 (Button most definitely), but I don't take Kovalainen's performance as the level of the McLaren, I take Lewis Hamilton's - and his was still inferior to the performance that Ferrari-Massa-Raikkonen were collectively demonstrating in 2008 - but he didn't have Heikki taking points off him in the way Raikkonen and Massa were to each other (that is before Raikkonen gave some back in China that is...). All Massa needed was a smooth pit-stop at Singapore and an engine failure to happen to him in a practice session instead of at Hungary, and he would have won the title by around 20 points, that's 50 in the current currency - and that's despite the tonne of points he threw away himself at Australia, Malaysia & Silverstone.

Consider all this, and then the simple conventional wisdom that Hamilton is a just a little bit better than Massa, and I don't see what argument can be made to the contrary.


#370 undersquare

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:17

not this shit again :down:

It's Lewis' chances of winning the 20123 wdc, and distinguishing between car, team and driver in recent history. If he were no better than Jenson, they'd be a lot worse than most think they are. So when someone says that exact thing, I might reply. It's on topic, so deal with it.

#371 mlsnoopy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:18

Lewis's chances depend on the car. If the car is good enough, he can do it. If not, Lewis isn't a miracle worker. No driver is, no matter how good he is. No driver can "outperform" the car, contrary to popular belief.


That is why Hamilton was winning races, when Button was fighting with the Caterhams.

#372 AMG FAN

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:27

Well, first he needs to beat Nico which is nowhere near a done deal. Nico just spent 2 years whipping the ass of god, remember.

I know Ham fans think he´s the god almighty, but Merc pairing is really the battle of 13.

if i was a Rosberg fan,i won't be impressed with him beating an washed up Micheal Schumacher...anyone who thinks the man was still the same person in his prime years is really clueless.....Rosberg is about to face his real first test.

#373 Coops3

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:27

That is why Hamilton was winning races, when Button was fighting with the Caterhams.


That's a fairly disingenuous statement since it implies Button was "fighting with the Caterhams" on a regular basis, whereas I only remember it happening at Monaco?

#374 Hairy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:32

"As usual in F1, the quickest or best car will win the championship in the end,"
- Fernando Alonso

My point about Kimi in 2007 is my opinion and I change it every now and then, as I think the Ferrari and McLaren were fairly well matched that year. However, the McLaren in 2008 was the best and the only reason that's questioned is because Heikki underperformed and lost the constructors championship.


Of Hamilton:
'Alonso said, "He is a great driver and maybe the fastest at the moment in Formula 1."'

'Alonso said, "He is the only driver who can win races in not the best car."'

Edited by Hairy, 07 March 2013 - 13:38.


#375 eronrules

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:34

Of Hamilton:
'Alonso said, "He is a great driver and maybe the fastest at the moment in Formula 1."'

'Alonso said, "He is the only river who can win races in not the best car."'


lewis should just propose to alonso ,... lovey dovey couple :o

#376 stanga

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:36

Will Lewis be WDC in 2013?

Only if he has the car, the luck and the reliability. He certainly has the talent and speed.

I think 2013 will be an 'alright year' with maybe one win and some podium action. 2014 will be where he has a chance for more.

#377 Lazy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:43

Jenson led Lewis on merit about 3 races per season, the normal sight was Lewis a few places ahead. At McLaren there was Latham, good riddance lol, now it'll be Bonnington/Clear. In 2012 Lewis lost at least 170 points to non-driving factors, Jenson about 20.

So Jenson's relative points score is no guide to what we're about to see. LH detractors cling to the points, but it's a bit deceitful if the driving is what's being talked about.

On Nico I'm prepared to be surprised, but if he's in Lewis' class I will be surprised that somehow nobody's noticed until now.

:D
This number just keeps growing, that's pretty much 7 clear wins, more than a bit deceitful.

#378 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:52

Will Lewis be WDC in 2013?

Only if he has the car, the luck and the reliability. He certainly has the talent and speed.

I think 2013 will be an 'alright year' with maybe one win and some podium action. 2014 will be where he has a chance for more.


He will also need consistent mental strength. Something that often eludes Mr. Hamilton.

#379 skyfolker

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:54

2007:

Malaysia - Ferrari

No,Mclaren was better.

2008:

Monaco (mixed) - Ferrari

No,Mclaren was always better in the rain,until final race of the season.

China - Draw (Hamilton on a different level to the competition, as acknowledged by Rob Smedley at the time)

One of the best Mclaren(Hamilton) races that year,similar to some others when they were clearly the fastest car,definitely it's not a draw,no matter what Smedley said.

and that's despite the tonne of points he threw away himself at Australia, Malaysia & Silverstone.

Australia was engine failure dnf.

Speed wise,they were pretty much equal during both seasons(given the circumstances),and it was Mclaren's reliability that kept them in the game until final race in 2007 and secured Hamilton's title in 2008.


As for the Hamilton chances for 2013 title,if the car is not to tough on tires his chances are good as any other's top driver/team.

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#380 mlsnoopy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:56

:D
This number just keeps growing, that's pretty much 7 clear wins, more than a bit deceitful.


And you still have no counterargument against it. The number of mistakes was huge, the number of points lost was huge. Deal with it and stop trolling.

#381 Hairy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:56

:D
This number just keeps growing, that's pretty much 7 clear wins, more than a bit deceitful.


Well, regardless of the number, it would still have had him plenty over Button in their time as team mates. From any viewpoint, you'd have to say that not only LH is quicker, but the better racer. I still rmemeber 2010 in China fondly as he made JB look like a rookie.

I also believe JB put LH into the wall in Canada, and nothing I have seen, or heard, since, has tempted me to think otherwise. He went down in my estimations that day, and I believe was behind some unrest in the team.

Hey ho, we'll never truly know, but when they both finished the race, Hamilton leads Button by a factor of 2.5:1. Let's not even discuss qualifying...

#382 Seanspeed

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 13:57

No driver can "outperform" the car, contrary to popular belief.

Nobody literally believes that. Its just a saying.

#383 HopkinsonF1

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:14

He will also need consistent mental strength. Something that often eludes Mr. Hamilton.


And yet Alonso falling off the pace and Vettel getting into several first-lap crashes at the end of 2012 gets ignored. Because it doesn't fit the narrative that Hamilton is the accident-prone driver, Alonso is a paragon of consistency, and Vettel is the GOAT in waiting.

The press are unduly critical of Lewis compared to other drivers. Put him in a quick car with a good team behind him and he's as likely to win the championship as anyone.

#384 undersquare

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:14

:D
This number just keeps growing, that's pretty much 7 clear wins, more than a bit deceitful.

It was all laid out by, I think, Kvothe. Amazing run of bad luck. And he didn't even allow for the many slow pitstops like the 3 I've just watch destroy Bahrain.

#385 HopkinsonF1

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:16

lewis should just propose to alonso ,... lovey dovey couple :o

And now Felipe's getting in on the act:

Ferrari's Felipe Massa for one is convinced that Hamilton will be a contender for the championship in 2013.

"Lewis is a driver who has always shown he can fight for the championship," said Massa, at a media event with Santander in Barcelona on Monday.

"He is very, very quick, and he has always proven that when he has a competitive car, he is going to be fighting for the wins and for the championship.



#386 maverick69

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:17

Lol.

Bringing up 2008 as an aide as to why he won't/cant do it is a bit of a joke. He won the WDC and scored almost twice as many points as his teammate :stoned:

And bringing up last year!? If McLaren had the operational and mechanical reliability of its direct rivals - he would have very, very likely been champion...... Probably with a race or two to spare.

Which leads to the initial point: Give him a car there or there abouts, that doesn't keep breaking down whilst in the lead, and with a team that can do a wheel nut up..... Then he will be there..... Mark my words.

The Hamilton of 2012 was a very different vintage.......

#387 malibu

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:27

To be WDC, Hamilton must first beat Rosberg. Nico have the same goal.

Edited by malibu, 07 March 2013 - 14:33.


#388 Lazy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:28

It was all laid out by, I think, Kvothe. Amazing run of bad luck. And he didn't even allow for the many slow pitstops like the 3 I've just watch destroy Bahrain.

Yeah, lets round it off to 250 points.

The fact that you take that number seriously demonstrates a severe detachment from reality.

#389 Hairy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:30

A couple of things that has always amazed me, is how often LH finished in front of JB when they both finished.
2010 : 10 - 3 LH in front.
2011 : 7 - 7 in his annus horriblis
2012 : 9 - 4 LH in front.

I think it's quite obvious he's a bit of a talent. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do outside of Mclaren. I like racers, I like people who give 100% so he's right up there for me.

#390 Hairy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:36

Yeah, lets round it off to 250 points.

The fact that you take that number seriously demonstrates a severe detachment from reality.


Ok, well, to round the argument, how about you give us an estimation of how many you think he lost....

#391 Lazy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 14:50

Ok, well, to round the argument, how about you give us an estimation of how many you think he lost....

Personally I'd give him the 3 wins that he broke down in the lead he probably would not have won all of them but then he did have some poor pit stops etc so we'll give him 75. The rest was just normal stuff that every other drivers fans would argue their man lost as well.

I thought he was great last year and if he can maintain that focus and the Merc is within a few tenths of the rest he will have a good chance for the WDC.

However, he does have a lot of "incidents", not all of which can be written of as bad luck. 2012 was the exception so far, time will tell if the change is permanent.

Any way you look at it though, gifting him 7 wins down to bad luck is clearly ludicrous.


#392 Moore

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 16:35

even if you argue 2012 was all about reliability, as it's known LH is rougher on his cars and this may have played a factor.


I'm sorry this is known is it? I'd like some sources to claim that he is the one breaking the cars. Before this season and before all the critics started with the "he's obviously breaking the car..." I've never heard this before.

#393 MrPodium

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 16:53

Personally I'd give him the 3 wins that he broke down in the lead he probably would not have won all of them but then he did have some poor pit stops etc so we'll give him 75. The rest was just normal stuff that every other drivers fans would argue their man lost as well.

I thought he was great last year and if he can maintain that focus and the Merc is within a few tenths of the rest he will have a good chance for the WDC.

However, he does have a lot of "incidents", not all of which can be written of as bad luck. 2012 was the exception so far, time will tell if the change is permanent.

Any way you look at it though, gifting him 7 wins down to bad luck is clearly ludicrous.


I would agree with most of what you said, apart from the 2012 exception. I would argue that 2007, 2009 and 2010 were no more incident prone seasons than any other driver.

And as for Halifax complaining about mental weakness, I can assure you with 90% certainty that if Hamilton was pointing the wrong way within 30 seconds from the start of a a race when attempting to clinch a WDC at the last event of the season we would not hear the end of it for ten years or maybe more.

As for Hamilton's chances, I'm not so sure. If I was a betting man, I'd have a few quid laid at the bookies for a good result in Australia, Monaco and Canada, plus the US. But I'm not, so I'll just reflect upon what I could have maybe won....


#394 MP422

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:04

A couple of things that has always amazed me, is how often LH finished in front of JB when they both finished.
2010 : 10 - 3 LH in front.
2011 : 7 - 7 in his annus horriblis
2012 : 9 - 4 LH in front.

I think it's quite obvious he's a bit of a talent. I am looking forward to seeing what he can do outside of Mclaren. I like racers, I like people who give 100% so he's right up there for me.



Yea me too.

#395 undersquare

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:14

Personally I'd give him the 3 wins that he broke down in the lead he probably would not have won all of them but then he did have some poor pit stops etc so we'll give him 75. The rest was just normal stuff that every other drivers fans would argue their man lost as well.

I thought he was great last year and if he can maintain that focus and the Merc is within a few tenths of the rest he will have a good chance for the WDC.

However, he does have a lot of "incidents", not all of which can be written of as bad luck. 2012 was the exception so far, time will tell if the change is permanent.

Any way you look at it though, gifting him 7 wins down to bad luck is clearly ludicrous.


Nah mate you've been a bit, er, lazy :D

This estimate was 152 points. There were all kinds of things - 3 duff pitstops in Bahrain, the only one to puncture in Germany, Grosjean in Spa, Suspension in India and Japan...

He was the most consistent DRIVER last year.

#396 Kingshark

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:23

2007:

Malaysia - Ferrari

No,Mclaren was better.

Ferrari should certainly have won that race if it wasn't for Hamilton's phenomenal start, holding them back, Massa's amateur driving and Raikkonen's overly cautious approach.

Regardless, the Alonso and Hamilton love couple seemed to have rubbed on to their fans. Not that I'm complaining. Nevertheless, if Fernando and Lewis want to compliment each others driving abilities, then they should be free to express their opinion. It's no different than me claiming the same things.

#397 OoxLox

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:34

No,Mclaren was better.
Ferrari should certainly have won that race if it wasn't for Hamilton's phenomenal start, holding them back, Massa's amateur driving and Raikkonen's overly cautious approach.

Regardless, the Alonso and Hamilton love couple seemed to have rubbed on to their fans. Not that I'm complaining. Nevertheless, if Fernando and Lewis want to compliment each others driving abilities, then they should be free to express their opinion. It's no different than me claiming the same things.


To be fair to Massa, he wouldn't have expected the level of defensive driving skills and maturity Lewis exhibited that day in keeping both Fezzas behind him for the rest of the race. That still stands out for me as the race that made me sit up and really take notice. :smoking:

As for Lewis's chances, I'd say slim unless the Merc is within a few tenths of the best car and the team get their trackside and development operations going as well as the top teams do. He also has to beat Rosberg and although I'm sure he will it'd be disrespectful to Nico to just assume it.

#398 MightyMoose

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 17:45

I get the feeling too many people are seeing this thread as a chance to rehash old arguments that appeared in the various "Lewis Hamilton" threads.

I understand that assessing his chances for 2013 should factor in previous history to a certain extent but not to the level to which this thread is plummeting. He is in an entirely different team after all, which a lot of people will say "could" enhance his chances and equally some will argue "could" reduce his chance!

If we have said all we have to say and can't add anything constructive without the various trolling, baiting & flaming then this thread can be closed and be returned to at the conclusion of the season for assessment on who got it right/wrong.

Over to you guys, behave please! :kiss:

Thanks
MM

#399 Rocket73

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 18:29

This has probably been mentioned but lewis looks like a different man at merc. Maybe its because a change is as good as a rest or, more likely that the atmosphere is much more to his liking.

Along with the fact that the car looks much better than expected, actually i did predict this nearly 5 months ago ;) , I would say that Lewis's chance of being wdc are pretty damn good!

Ask me again after melbourne..

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#400 mlsnoopy

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 19:30

That's a fairly disingenuous statement since it implies Button was "fighting with the Caterhams" on a regular basis, whereas I only remember it happening at Monaco?


Then let me try differently. McLaren last year was the fastest car. I think that we can all agree on that. But what happens if we take Hamilton out of the team and judge McLaren based on Buttons performance. The same argument can also be made for Alonso and Massa last year.