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McLaren MP4-28


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#451 Obi Offiah

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:11

OMG so true. Its hard to be excited but I am still a Macca fan.

Perfect situation (for me at least) would be McLaren winning the WCC, and Hamilton the WDC. The second doesn't have a hope in hell unfortunately.

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#452 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:23

The '28 was designed in the same wind tunnel as this year's Ferrari?

WAT

It's like the US Air Force building their fighters in MiG's factories :rotfl:


It's rather that the F138 uses the same tunnel as McLaren. Ferrari switched to Toyota's Cologne tunnel because of the problems with their Maranello tunnel.

#453 Rikhart

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:25

The McLaren solution seals the sides of the diffuser, but the Red Bull Solution seals the sides of the diffuser and blows the starters hole in the middle of the diffuser. The ramp/tunnel affect gets more air to the diffuser, it was in a Scarbs article along with Gary Anderson maybe? Basically, the Red Bull solution takes McLaren's a step further, I think the trend you will see, is most cars adopt the Red Bull rear end. That is how Red Bull went from seemingly no rake at all, to Running almost 2011 levels of rake after Singapore because they were getting so much air to the diffuser again their rear stability improved ten fold, thats where their late season charge came from.



Like I said, there are benefits and disadvantages to both systems. Mclaren was often faster with theirs, so you can´t really make it that clear cut. Both do overall the same thing in different ways, and my personal oppinion is that each is better at different airspeeds/car velocity.

#454 JRizzle86

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:33

It's rather that the F138 uses the same tunnel as McLaren. Ferrari switched to Toyota's Cologne tunnel because of the problems with their Maranello tunnel.


Apparently McLaren deem their own wind tunnel to be insufficient for their needs at the moment and chose to start using the more technologically advanced Toyota one in Cologne.

Marussia are using McLaren's for the time being under contract and McLaren are said to be designing a new wind tunnel for Woking.

#455 BillBald

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:33

The McLaren solution seals the sides of the diffuser, but the Red Bull Solution seals the sides of the diffuser and blows the starters hole in the middle of the diffuser. The ramp/tunnel affect gets more air to the diffuser, it was in a Scarbs article along with Gary Anderson maybe? Basically, the Red Bull solution takes McLaren's a step further, I think the trend you will see, is most cars adopt the Red Bull rear end. That is how Red Bull went from seemingly no rake at all, to Running almost 2011 levels of rake after Singapore because they were getting so much air to the diffuser again their rear stability improved ten fold, thats where their late season charge came from.


Even after Singapore, the McLaren was generally close to the Red Bull, and that was with the disadvantage of the low nose. With extra airflow now available, McLaren could turn out to have the better solution.

#456 H2H

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:39

Do all teams use 'blade' wishbone attachments these days?


Pretty much for obvious reasons. While the elements have to be neutral, with a fix x/y relationship, they do certainly interact heavily with the airflow. The pull 'rod' up front is nearly horizontal and should work better as part of the aerodynamic package.

Edited by H2H, 31 January 2013 - 22:45.


#457 MirNyet

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 22:54

The McLaren solution seals the sides of the diffuser, but the Red Bull Solution seals the sides of the diffuser and blows the starters hole in the middle of the diffuser. The ramp/tunnel affect gets more air to the diffuser, it was in a Scarbs article along with Gary Anderson maybe? Basically, the Red Bull solution takes McLaren's a step further, I think the trend you will see, is most cars adopt the Red Bull rear end. That is how Red Bull went from seemingly no rake at all, to Running almost 2011 levels of rake after Singapore because they were getting so much air to the diffuser again their rear stability improved ten fold, thats where their late season charge came from.


Both solutions blow the starter hole, the McLaren approach has accelerated air hugging the side of the sidepod while the exhaust gases pass over them in the downwash from the top of the sidepod. The Red Bull design allow's air to get to the starter hole via a limited size tunnel with the exhaust gases passing down a ramp to the side of the diffuser.

If anything, the McLaren approach done correctly is more powerful than the Red Bull one because the exhaust gases are not being dragged down the ramp, and the air going to the starter hole isn't passing through a fixed size tunnel.

Sauber if you recall started with a ramp - but switched to the McLaren design mid season. The McLaren design appears to be more difficult to get working, which may be why Red Bull didn't switch to it last year as they had the ramp (which by default will be easier to tune) working.

#458 Owen

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 23:04

Scarbs analysis filmed at launch, worth a look :up:
http://youtu.be/Dk9o9d4oBz8?a

#459 dave34m

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 23:43

Man! The /27 was so pretty.

It was before they messed with it low nose

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#460 mp4x

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Posted 31 January 2013 - 23:47

I can’t help myself; I’m just staring at the car and can’t get enough of it. It’s pretty awesome. If you look at it from the front angle it’s like the Photoshopped image we had at the end of 2011 about the winged-sidepods of -27. I mean the sidepods are more towards the cockpit than ever; it looks like that they’ve chopped off some chunks from the middle of the sidepods and then glued the other parts back.
The thing that makes me to think they’ll change the nose is that the last "e" of the Vodafone decal on the nose in every photo has a different red tone.


#461 Mauseri

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:42

At first look it looked like the MP of last year or the before, but clearly it's a new car with evolutionary changes. Would be surprise if it's not a winner, even if there is nothing surprising in the car. It looks to be done to do what it has got to do.

Edited by Mauseri, 01 February 2013 - 02:43.


#462 Seanspeed

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:10

At first look it looked like the MP of last year or the before, but clearly it's a new car with evolutionary changes. Would be surprise if it's not a winner, even if there is nothing surprising in the car. It looks to be done to do what it has got to do.

Its both evolutionary and revolutionary. They seem to be using the same sort of airflow sculpting as last year, but it had to be adapted to the new, higher-nose concept.

Looks-wise, I dont think there's much to be excited about. At least there's no step nose. I appreciate that. But it does appear much like last year's car on first impression.

But thinking about the competitiveness of it, I'm in two minds. For one - last year's idea showed a lower nose concept could prove extremely competitive. I see people saying that the higher nose is advantageous, but I'm a little skeptical considering Mclaren's form last year. But it is a bit frightening to think that if the lower-nose concept was a disadvantage, what sort of pace would they be possible of with something more in-line with everybody else?



#463 SUPRAF1

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:33

Slightly off topic, but was that Natalie Pinkham of SKY at the launch event?

Isn't that a pretty clear case of journalistic conflict of interest :confused:

#464 bourbon

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:35

Perez looks great in the McLaren firesuit. So far, so great. :up: Go Checo!!!

Button looks debonaire as always. :cool:

The VMM looks sweet, but hard to see in the shots I was able to see. I will await the live view.

Edited by bourbon, 01 February 2013 - 04:38.


#465 BigCHrome

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 04:39

Its both evolutionary and revolutionary. They seem to be using the same sort of airflow sculpting as last year, but it had to be adapted to the new, higher-nose concept.

Looks-wise, I dont think there's much to be excited about. At least there's no step nose. I appreciate that. But it does appear much like last year's car on first impression.

But thinking about the competitiveness of it, I'm in two minds. For one - last year's idea showed a lower nose concept could prove extremely competitive. I see people saying that the higher nose is advantageous, but I'm a little skeptical considering Mclaren's form last year. But it is a bit frightening to think that if the lower-nose concept was a disadvantage, what sort of pace would they be possible of with something more in-line with everybody else?


The chassis isn't raised that much higher. In terms of volume it can't be more than a few mm^3. On the other hand, they were the only ones to completely design the car around exhaust blowing the gap between the rear wheels and floor, so it's possible that they will lose pace compared to the rest of the grid who are only now developing the car completely around that concept.

Slightly off topic, but was that Natalie Pinkham of SKY at the launch event?

Isn't that a pretty clear case of journalistic conflict of interest :confused:


Why?

#466 NoDivergence

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:16

Raising the nose not only increased volumetric flow but also the quality of that flow. There will be definite gains there. That combined with the pullrod front suspension will improve the flow around the undercut and under the car. We could see an increase in effectiveness of the exhaust blowing and diffuser performance. Pushing the sidepods rearwards also increases the amount of flow that can be "turned" between the sidebarge and the sidepod while the mirror stalk allows a flow redirection over the sidepod

If you think the -27 was fast... If they can get the front pullrod suspension setup down, this car will be a winner.

#467 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:44

When you see the drivers next to the car, you realize how big it actually is. :eek:
The car seems much smaller on the screen.

It's 5ish metres long isn't it, 3ish m wheelbase, like an ordinary saloon?
It's only 950mm high + the ride height. :)

It seems so strange with Button and Perez driver lineup.

It doesn't sound like a strong driver line-up to me, but we will see, maybe Whitmarsh will be adding WDC and WCC trophies to the cabinet this season, quite possibly in crushingly dominant fashion. Good luck to McLaren. :up:

#468 Shiroo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:26

It's 5ish metres long isn't it, 3ish m wheelbase, like an ordinary saloon?
It's only 950mm high + the ride height. :)

It seems so strange with Button and Perez driver lineup.

It doesn't sound like a strong driver line-up to me, but we will see, maybe Whitmarsh will be adding WDC and WCC trophies to the cabinet this season, quite possibly in crushingly dominant fashion. Good luck to McLaren. :up:

Hold your horses. Because car looks cool, it doesn't make it right from the bat, the fastest one. We still didn't see RBR. And about WDC, I hear about that since 2008, and let's be honest, they had way more superior driver line-up for like 3 season, yet they didn't achieve WCC nor WDC.

We shall wait at least to the 1st test

#469 Peter3hg

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:53

Slightly off topic, but was that Natalie Pinkham of SKY at the launch event?

Isn't that a pretty clear case of journalistic conflict of interest :confused:


She's a presenter, not a journalist.

#470 OSX

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:01

Scarbs analysis filmed at launch, worth a look :up:
http://youtu.be/Dk9o9d4oBz8?a

Yup. :up:

#471 Kingshark

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:08

All Mexican of course, which helps us to understand why the vastly more impressive Hulkenberg was somewhat overlooked, something that Frank Williams mentioned in an interview with Windsor a few months ago.

As I have said before, Perez is 3 years younger than Hulkenburg and has 3 more years to improve.

Both Perez and Hulkenburg were in a race winning position, in a wet race, at one point this season. Perez in Malaysia and Hulkenburg in Brazil. Both choked when it mattered, but Hulkenburg's mistake was far worse.

Please stop this bullcrap myth that Hulkenburg has more potential that Perez. There's zero evidence to support that other than blind fanboyism and opinions.

#472 OSX

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:24

I just doesnt feel right without Lewis :(

It is slightly odd yes with no clear star driver in the team anymore. You look at those pics and the videos of the new car and every now and then you almost have to remind yourself who will be driving it this season.

#473 Rinehart

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:43

Slightly off topic, but was that Natalie Pinkham of SKY at the launch event?

Isn't that a pretty clear case of journalistic conflict of interest :confused:


One of the most ridiculous things I've read on here. I suppose you we're also outraged by sky's coverage of Lotus launch.

#474 Rinehart

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:44

Both solutions blow the starter hole, the McLaren approach has accelerated air hugging the side of the sidepod while the exhaust gases pass over them in the downwash from the top of the sidepod. The Red Bull design allow's air to get to the starter hole via a limited size tunnel with the exhaust gases passing down a ramp to the side of the diffuser.

If anything, the McLaren approach done correctly is more powerful than the Red Bull one because the exhaust gases are not being dragged down the ramp, and the air going to the starter hole isn't passing through a fixed size tunnel.

Sauber if you recall started with a ramp - but switched to the McLaren design mid season. The McLaren design appears to be more difficult to get working, which may be why Red Bull didn't switch to it last year as they had the ramp (which by default will be easier to tune) working.


Spot on.

#475 femi

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 07:57

Raising the nose not only increased volumetric flow but also the quality of that flow. There will be definite gains there. That combined with the pullrod front suspension will improve the flow around the undercut and under the car. We could see an increase in effectiveness of the exhaust blowing and diffuser performance. Pushing the sidepods rearwards also increases the amount of flow that can be "turned" between the sidebarge and the sidepod while the mirror stalk allows a flow redirection over the sidepod

If you think the -27 was fast... If they can get the front pullrod suspension setup down, this car will be a winner.


This is the first of the 'big boys' to reveal what they've got for this year. Reading various analyses of what is seen so far, it looks like conceptually Mclaren have done a good job but I wouldn't go as far as calling it a winner - yet. Let's wait to see what RB, Ferrari, Lotus etc have got in stock and more importantly, let's see how they compare one to another after the first few changes of red lights to green.

#476 femi

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:24

Mclaren's stepped nose


Edited by femi, 01 February 2013 - 08:26.


#477 Talisker

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:24

Slightly off topic, but was that Natalie Pinkham of SKY at the launch event?

Isn't that a pretty clear case of journalistic conflict of interest :confused:


A much misunderstood topic...Sky are a commercial organisation, they have absolutely no obligation to be independent. I don't see any indication of bias towards Mclaren, but there's no reason why there couldn't be. FFS the British tabloids out and out tell people which way to vote at general elections, and there's no problem with that.

#478 Pizdek

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:26

Mclaren's stepped nose


huh, looks awfull! :lol:

#479 JRizzle86

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:37

huh, looks awfull! :lol:


Probably a good thing they covered it then.

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#480 Harry

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 08:58

Doesn't covering the stepped nose with a vanity panel defeat the purpose of stepped noses in the first place? I've heard the reason behind the regulation change last year, despite not really understanding how the step in the nose would make it any safer if a car was to launch over another anyway, but if it's covered, surely it defeats the purpose of it? Or would the panel crush with the slightest amount of pressure?

#481 Pizdek

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:02

Probably a good thing they covered it then.


Yeah. But if its opened it would be prettyer then Mercs last year... for sure

#482 Mc_Silver

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:06

I think what we will see in Jerez will be very close to launch car. I expect to see complete new aero package in 2nd tests cuz in the first few days they do not care much about performance. There will be lots of system checks, in lap out laps, familiarizing with the new car.

#483 LookButDontStare

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:14

Doesn't covering the stepped nose with a vanity panel defeat the purpose of stepped noses in the first place? I've heard the reason behind the regulation change last year, despite not really understanding how the step in the nose would make it any safer if a car was to launch over another anyway, but if it's covered, surely it defeats the purpose of it? Or would the panel crush with the slightest amount of pressure?


the vanity panel would have nothing to do with a car if it took off like Webber at Valencia, but having the nose lower would

#484 IMO

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:21

I remember Lotus followed mclaren 's path last year, and they lost quit a handful lots of Bhp.

However, they opted for Rbr's solution for E21.

Maybe Rbr 's solution saved up more Bhp compromised than mclaren 's solution. Merc and ferrari power plant can afford that due to their engine spec house more Bhp than renault engine by nature.

Well, just a wild speculation.

#485 JRizzle86

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:21

Yeah. But if its opened it would be prettyer then Mercs last year... for sure


The Dolphin nose was not a looker

#486 loki0420

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:30

I think what we will see in Jerez will be very close to launch car. I expect to see complete new aero package in 2nd tests cuz in the first few days they do not care much about performance. There will be lots of system checks, in lap out laps, familiarizing with the new car.

More probably in the last test like last year.

#487 Owen

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 09:33

McLaren expects 'good step forward' at second test
http://en.espnf1.com...rce=twitterfeed

#488 Anonymous

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:06

Posted Image

#489 techspeed

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:06

Doesn't covering the stepped nose with a vanity panel defeat the purpose of stepped noses in the first place? I've heard the reason behind the regulation change last year, despite not really understanding how the step in the nose would make it any safer if a car was to launch over another anyway, but if it's covered, surely it defeats the purpose of it? Or would the panel crush with the slightest amount of pressure?

The problem was the nose was getting as high as the cockpit sides, so if a car hit another side on in the middle the first thing the nose would hit would be the driver. The lower height for the whole nose is to keep every structural part of the nose well below the cockpit height, nothing to do with cars launching in accidents.
The vanity panel is as thin and lightweight as possible, with no structural strength so it can't cause much damage in an accident.

#490 JRizzle86

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 11:00

Posted Image


Oh Scarbs you Devil, wouldn't even know it was there.

#491 Lemans

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 14:04

I'm not sure if this has already been posted. It's Gary Anderson's tech analysis of the MP4/28.
He seems to like the car which means McLaren are probably doomed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21283726



#492 silversurf3r

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 14:04

Posted on Twitter by @kimiraikkonen79

Posted Image

Interesting for comparison if it's not already been posted.

#493 Rikhart

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 14:14

Well that comparison is kinda moot, since the lotus shown at launch is last years car. Also ferrari are the ones who showed their hand the most at launch, lots of interesting details the other teams didnt show.

#494 Lemans

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 14:21

The ferrari has huge sidepods again.



Edited by Lemans, 01 February 2013 - 14:22.


#495 10e10

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 14:43

The ferrari has huge sidepods again.


But they have a really small gearbox. The McLaren's seems larger, still, Scarbs said McLaren's looked like last year's Red Bull rear end.

#496 Lemans

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:20

But they have a really small gearbox. The McLaren's seems larger, still, Scarbs said McLaren's looked like last year's Red Bull rear end.


That's true. It just seems there is a lot of bulk in front of that tiny gearbox. Back to the /28, if it can keep the speed of the /27 then McLaren are in very good shape and have no reason to fear ferrari, newey or anyone else. Just no F**K-ups!!!



Edited by Lemans, 01 February 2013 - 15:21.


#497 BernieEc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 15:55

I know this is a stretch but based on pure looks alone and the so-called visual analysis and judging from where they were at the end of the season, it seems the McLaren will be the car to beat this year

#498 EvanRainer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:10

Except for, you know, that other car :lol:

#499 ApexMouse

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:10

I know this is a stretch but based on pure looks alone and the so-called visual analysis and judging from where they were at the end of the season, it seems the McLaren will be the car to beat this year


Nobody can have so much as a clue.
People around here were saying last years Caterham looked fast. Everybody was disappointed with the 27 being so 'conservative' at launch as well, turned out to be utter rubbish. Nobody knows a thing except the designers. Scarbs,GA and co can provide an insight and informed opines, but they couldn't tell you which is best to save their lives.

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#500 Pitlane

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:24

Posted on Twitter by @kimiraikkonen79

Posted Image

Interesting for comparison if it's not already been posted.


That lotus nose looks pretty good, even when comparing with the McLaren & Ferrari. I kind of like how its pointy, like a dart :)
Not even sure it would look better if they did put a panel over it tbh.

Never would have expected that after the shock seeing them the first time

Edited by Pitlane, 01 February 2013 - 16:25.