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McLaren MP4-28


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#501 EvanRainer

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:28

Some of them look kind of good because they have this aggressive "beak" like look to them.

The ones that looked like duckbills on the other hand less so :lol:

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#502 Pitlane

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:29

Except for, you know, that other car :lol:


Yeah, I would be surprised if RBR had something forcing everyone to rethink their designs again..

Newey probably costs alot money for RBR, but then again even more to their competition :p


edit: i curse my spelling every day..

Edited by Pitlane, 01 February 2013 - 16:30.


#503 BernieEc

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:29

Nobody can have so much as a clue.
People around here were saying last years Caterham looked fast. Everybody was disappointed with the 27 being so 'conservative' at launch as well, turned out to be utter rubbish. Nobody knows a thing except the designers. Scarbs,GA and co can provide an insight and informed opines, but they couldn't tell you which is best to save their lives.

Hence why I said "it might be a stretch" :)

#504 Shiroo

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:33

That lotus nose looks pretty good, even when comparing with the McLaren & Ferrari. I kind of like how its pointy, like a dart :)
Not even sure it would look better if they did put a panel over it tbh.

Never would have expected that after the shock seeing them the first time

In my opinion it even looks better than with modesty panel. These noses with modesty panel looks FAT

#505 0113Greenall

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:39

The rear of the mclaren looks no where near as refined as the ferrari or E21, Not from side view it looks so long. I realise its to benefit air attachment to the rear wings ect but still looks long as hell.

#506 string158

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 16:49

I think what we will see in Jerez will be very close to launch car. I expect to see complete new aero package in 2nd tests cuz in the first few days they do not care much about performance. There will be lots of system checks, in lap out laps, familiarizing with the new car.


I agree. I think also because there isn't such a drastic change from last year 2011 teams may be able to benchmark certain parts. E.g testing a slightly upgraded 2012 car with new parts to see how they compare with last years data.

#507 BigCHrome

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 17:07

I wish they'd go back to chrome wheels. I don't like the black.

#508 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 18:14

But they have a really small gearbox. The McLaren's seems larger, still, Scarbs said McLaren's looked like last year's Red Bull rear end.

I said something similar a few pages back. I then went and looked at a few pictures of the RB8 and changed my mind (the rear on that car is practically shrink wrapped), but if Scarbs believes this to be the case, that's very good news, he was there at the launch so has a better perspective.

#509 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 18:16

Nobody knows a thing except the designers. Scarbs,GA and co can provide an insight and informed opines, but they couldn't tell you which is best to save their lives.

Even the designers can't tell us that.

#510 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 18:18

I wish they'd go back to chrome wheels. I don't like the black.

But you would say that wouldn't you! :p

Edited by Obi Offiah, 01 February 2013 - 19:22.


#511 F1Champion

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 18:23

I really think Lewis made a mistake leaving. The new McLaren looks like a much better starting point that last year. Without the low nose lost development time McLaren might have been strong throughout the season.

#512 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 18:26

I really think Lewis made a mistake leaving. The new McLaren looks like a much better starting point that last year. Without the low nose lost development time McLaren might have been strong throughout the season.

I think Lewis suspects (and did so at the time of his decision) that the -28 will be very competitive.

#513 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 18:27

It looks to me like the F138 has a narrower (from top to bottom) front bulkhead. It appears as if the Scuderia have created more space for airflow underneath.

#514 Absulute

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 18:46

I think Lewis suspects (and did so at the time of his decision) that the -28 will be very competitive.


I think it'll be interesting to see how he copes if the 28 is winning races and he's struggling.

I do wish he was still at McLaren, but it's not the end of the world.

#515 MinT

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 19:17

Car thread - not Lewis thread.

He aint in it so irrelevant how he feels

#516 H2H

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 19:29

Posted on Twitter by @kimiraikkonen79

Posted Image

Interesting for comparison if it's not already been posted.


Thanks. Certainly more beautiful then those of the last year...

#517 BigCHrome

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 19:33

But you would say that wouldn't you! :p


No no, I had the same feeling last year as well. I prefer the wheels from the -25 and -26.

#518 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 19:57

I could be wrong, but I think the McLaren fron side-pod philosophy may be very similar to a 3D concept that was poster last year (a prediction of the 2012 car). I can find the pictures, but it featured holes in the floor just ahead of the side-pod intakes.

#519 Treads

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 20:35

The rear of the mclaren looks no where near as refined as the ferrari or E21, Not from side view it looks so long. I realise its to benefit air attachment to the rear wings ect but still looks long as hell.


Optical illusion. In my opinion, the rear looks longer than the Fezza as the sidepod swoop down lower sooner.


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#520 FranDaMan

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 20:57

Well, we're winning the beauty pageant hands down so far :p

#521 BigCHrome

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 20:59

Yep, the -28's sidepods swoop down alot sooner than the ferrari's. Also McLaren dont have the cooling oil intake at the top of the car, which surely adds a ton to the CoG. I dont really understand why McLaren went with the pull rod front though, that is the biggest head scratcher for me.

#522 Anonymous

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:06

Yep, the -28's sidepods swoop down alot sooner than the ferrari's. Also McLaren dont have the cooling oil intake at the top of the car, which surely adds a ton to the CoG. I dont really understand why McLaren went with the pull rod front though, that is the biggest head scratcher for me.


"... pull-rod front suspension, which has a lower centre of gravity and the pull-rod manages the airflow off the front wing better than the more common push-rod."

#523 Seanspeed

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:11

Yep, the -28's sidepods swoop down alot sooner than the ferrari's. Also McLaren dont have the cooling oil intake at the top of the car, which surely adds a ton to the CoG. I dont really understand why McLaren went with the pull rod front though, that is the biggest head scratcher for me.

Since they raised the nose, it raises the CoG. Pullrod can claw some of that back and also comes with aerodynamic advantages.

#524 MirNyet

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 21:54

Since they raised the nose, it raises the CoG. Pullrod can claw some of that back and also comes with aerodynamic advantages.


Compared to the weight of the nose, and all of the elements held within it - the COG offset gained by going pull/push will be tiny - while I agree that every little helps - it will be the aero gain they are after.

#525 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 22:12

I know this is a stretch but based on pure looks alone and the so-called visual analysis and judging from where they were at the end of the season, it seems the McLaren will be the car to beat this year


Without as much as having seen the RBR? I don't think so :p

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 01 February 2013 - 22:12.


#526 chumma

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 22:20

Posted Image

I don't believe it to be like this at all. I believe, like the Ferrari, the vanity panel extends the hose and increases the height of the nose. The vanity panel isn't technically part of the nose, sort of like race tape isn't considered body work, loophole in the regs, thats the way I look at it anyway, the unpainted nose on the work bench is very short and bulky, not shaped in any way like the nose on the car which leads me to believe the end of the nose is vanity panel.

#527 JRizzle86

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 22:34

I don't believe it to be like this at all. I believe, like the Ferrari, the vanity panel extends the hose and increases the height of the nose. The vanity panel isn't technically part of the nose, sort of like race tape isn't considered body work, loophole in the regs, thats the way I look at it anyway, the unpainted nose on the work bench is very short and bulky, not shaped in any way like the nose on the car which leads me to believe the end of the nose is vanity panel.


No offence intended but Scarbs tends to know his stuff and knows guys at within the team. We have seen a picture of the stepped nose bare and the finished product so his interpretation makes sense. The vanity panel on the Ferrari is slightly different and extends out further at the front of the nose. Who knows if the FIA fully accept that as a fair interpretation of the rule.

#528 techspeed

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 22:57

I don't believe it to be like this at all. I believe, like the Ferrari, the vanity panel extends the hose and increases the height of the nose. The vanity panel isn't technically part of the nose, sort of like race tape isn't considered body work, loophole in the regs, thats the way I look at it anyway, the unpainted nose on the work bench is very short and bulky, not shaped in any way like the nose on the car which leads me to believe the end of the nose is vanity panel.

Well Scarbs did produce the drawing after being able to look at and touch the actual car at the launch.


#529 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 23:10

Hello here we go with "the 28"!!!!

First impression is that the car looks awesome!!

I hope it will be fast!!



#530 BillBald

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 23:36

"... pull-rod front suspension, which has a lower centre of gravity and the pull-rod manages the airflow off the front wing better than the more common push-rod."


I'm not surprised that they went for pull-rod, but I'm a bit worried that setup changes might take too long.

That won't matter so much if sim modelling is very accurate, and they can come to the track with the optimal setup. But I'm also concerned that they might not be able to model the behaviour of the pull-rod arrangement as well as the traditional push-rod, at least initially.



#531 Obi Offiah

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 23:52

I've managed to find the pictures I was talking about. Remember how prior to the launch of the 2012 cars, there was speculation of Ferrari and McLaren utilising side-pod wings/split floor:
Split Floor Post
Split Floor Concept

It looks like McLaren may have adopted part of this philosophy with the -28:
MP4-28 Side-pod Front Floor Design


#532 BigCHrome

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 00:13

I don't see it.

#533 Obi Offiah

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 00:45

I don't see it.

I'll wait until the final tests to see how that area is developed, but they have pulled the side-pod back exposing the side impact structure location, so I see they may play around with this area in the coming weeks. It may be a false dawn however.

#534 Iridescent

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:44

Some interesting features for sure, expect it to look way more refined by the time of the last test.

#535 Obi Offiah

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:52

Some interesting features for sure, expect it to look way more refined by the time of the last test.

Yes, both McLaren and Ferrari mentioned that they will be bringing some big updates to the second test and Barcelona.

Edited by Obi Offiah, 02 February 2013 - 02:14.


#536 Iridescent

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 01:56

Yes, both McLaren and Ferrari mentioned that they will be bring some big updates to the second test and Barcelona.

Most other teams would too. It's a fairly common practice.

#537 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:08

Yes, both McLaren and Ferrari mentioned that they will be bring some big updates to the second test and Barcelona.

Ferrari mentioned being behind a bit in the development and said their big upgrade will come in the last test. I think we might have seen Ferrari's cards for the moment.

Mclaren were actually in a uniquely advantageous situation at the end of the season, being out of the competition for any titles, but still having a very good car. They could afford to pour some more resources into this year's car than Ferrari and Red Bull could. Which may pay off big-time. Gotta say, its Mclaren that have me more nervous than the Milton Keynes boys at the moment. :wave:

#538 Obi Offiah

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:17

Ferrari mentioned being behind a bit in the development and said their big upgrade will come in the last test. I think we might have seen Ferrari's cards for the moment.

Mclaren were actually in a uniquely advantageous situation at the end of the season, being out of the competition for any titles, but still having a very good car. They could afford to pour some more resources into this year's car than Ferrari and Red Bull could. Which may pay off big-time. Gotta say, its Mclaren that have me more nervous than the Milton Keynes boys at the moment. :wave:

I think Newey mentioned also that they are a little behind the curve due to their 2012 championship charge, but that it wasn't a huge deal. There are rumours circulating that they may start the tests with the RB8 (perhaps a modified version), but I don't know how valid those rumours are.

#539 BigCHrome

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:26

Ferrari mentioned being behind a bit in the development and said their big upgrade will come in the last test. I think we might have seen Ferrari's cards for the moment.

Mclaren were actually in a uniquely advantageous situation at the end of the season, being out of the competition for any titles, but still having a very good car. They could afford to pour some more resources into this year's car than Ferrari and Red Bull could. Which may pay off big-time. Gotta say, its Mclaren that have me more nervous than the Milton Keynes boys at the moment. :wave:


McLaren were bringing new parts till the end of the season.

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#540 Seanspeed

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:27

I think Newey mentioned also that they are a little behind the curve due to their 2012 championship charge, but that it wasn't a huge deal. There are rumours circulating that they may start the tests with the RB8 (perhaps a modified version), but I don't know how valid those rumours are.

Yea, Ferrari sounded a bit more concerned about being behind than Newey did, but who knows?

I'd be pretty shocked to see Red Bull out there with last year's chassis considering the Mclaren threat, but I suppose its not impossible. They had a very developed package that seemed to be pushing things in a lot of areas already. It would be stupid to discount some more Newey genius but I think Mclaren and to a lesser extent Ferrari perhaps have the advantage in having more scope for development, so Red Bull might not have anything too special to show off this year. Hopefully! :lol:

#541 NoDivergence

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 02:33

http://www.f1fanatic...4-27-28-top.jpg

Interesting to see the direct comparison. I picked up a lot of the small details earlier, but one thing has been bugging me.

Look at the rear suspension upper wishbone. It no longer is a full length airfoil. I wonder why

Also, I believe the reason for the extra long sidepod (though it has deep undercuts underneath) is to keep the flow attached and turning towards the diffuser and to increase the surface area such that the downwash is increased over the sidepods

#542 Obi Offiah

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:05

................so Red Bull might not have anything too special to show off this year. Hopefully! :lol:

I've got my fingers and toes crossed. :lol:

#543 Obi Offiah

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 03:09

http://www.f1fanatic...4-27-28-top.jpg

Interesting to see the direct comparison. I picked up a lot of the small details earlier, but one thing has been bugging me.

Look at the rear suspension upper wishbone. It no longer is a full length airfoil. I wonder why

Also, I believe the reason for the extra long sidepod (though it has deep undercuts underneath) is to keep the flow attached and turning towards the diffuser and to increase the surface area such that the downwash is increased over the sidepods

About the upper wishbone, maybe streamlined aerofoil section was hindering airflow close to the cars surface from more effectively reaching the beam wing?

What do you mean by 'extra long sidepod'?

#544 argiriano

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:24

http://www.f1fanatic...4-27-28-top.jpg

Also, I believe the reason for the extra long sidepod (though it has deep undercuts underneath) is to keep the flow attached and turning towards the diffuser and to increase the surface area such that the downwash is increased over the sidepods

MP4-27 lunch spec didn`t have final exhaust solution which make sidepods look shorter... also the sidepods of 28 starts further back but because of the top extention they look similar.

I also didn't understand why front pull-rod was considered as problematic area by some people here. Ferrari sad many times last year it`s not a problem at all but for many fans it was and I guess it just stay that way. I`m not concenrned at all and also i think MP4-28 will be better prepared for titles than 27 if not some fatal reliability problems.

#545 BigCHrome

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:33

MP4-27 lunch spec didn`t have final exhaust solution which make sidepods look shorter... also the sidepods of 28 starts further back but because of the top extention they look similar.

I also didn't understand why front pull-rod was considered as problematic area by some people here. Ferrari sad many times last year it`s not a problem at all but for many fans it was and I guess it just stay that way. I`m not concenrned at all and also i think MP4-28 will be better prepared for titles than 27 if not some fatal reliability problems.


I'm concerned mostly because there were faster cars with the push rod.

#546 nosecone

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 08:46

Many "experts" called the pull rod suspension the biggest problem of the F2012 at the beginning. Later they were quiet. Ferrari kept the pull rod, maybe because it made no problem. But McLaren doesn't have the experience with it and it is crucial to find a good setup since the tyres are tricky to manage

#547 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 09:39

Many "experts" called the pull rod suspension the biggest problem of the F2012 at the beginning. Later they were quiet. Ferrari kept the pull rod, maybe because it made no problem. But McLaren doesn't have the experience with it and it is crucial to find a good setup since the tyres are tricky to manage


In the big interview recently, Fry said that indeed the pull-rod didn't cause problems for them and did bring the expected gains. Setup work was negatively affected, but not dramatically so, and they made changes to the 2013 version to improve accessibility. I'm sure McLaren came up with smart solutions as well.

#548 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 10:10

Will pull rod a problem? with this kind os suspension more air to sidepods and diffuser.

Perhaps mclaren will need time to understand this suspension.

The car look pretty ansd last year we were the fastest!!!

Keep the faith!

#549 BernieEc

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:17

Mark and quote this post come november 2013

McLare will win WDC and WCC this year

Edited by BernieEc, 02 February 2013 - 11:20.


#550 SunnyENTP

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:27

Mark and quote this post come november 2013

McLare will win WDC and WCC this year


My money is on Ferrari.