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McLaren MP4-28


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#551 loki0420

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 11:51

My money is on Ferrari.

Otherwise send your money to Woking. :wave:

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#552 FranDaMan

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:10

Mark and quote this post come november 2013

McLaren will win WDC and WCC this year


Love the optimism.

Anyone going to place a cheeky quid on a McLaren WCC?

#553 Mc_Silver

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:15

I'm concerned mostly because there were faster cars with the push rod.


I they would not go with pull-rod if they did not see good benefits. In 2014, they will revert back to the push-rod but still they opted for pull-rod. I think it has some good advantages

Edited by Mc_Silver, 02 February 2013 - 12:16.


#554 10e10

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:17

I they would not go with pull-rod if they did not see good benefits. In 2014, they will revert back to the push-rod but still they opted for pull-rod. I think it has some good advantages


How do you know that?

#555 Mc_Silver

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:35

How do you know that?


The 2014 regulations require the use of lower noses than in previous years, in the interests of safety. The tip of the nose would have been no more than 185mm above the ground, in comparison to the 550mm allowed in 2012


I read somewhere that cuz of this rule, push-rod front suspensions will be way to go in 2014.

Edited by Mc_Silver, 02 February 2013 - 12:35.


#556 10e10

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:44

I read somewhere that cuz of this rule, push-rod front suspensions will be way to go in 2014.


I see. Thank you for the clarification.

#557 OO7

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 12:56

I read somewhere that cuz of this rule, push-rod front suspensions will be way to go in 2014.

That's strange because F1 cars have used pull-rods with much lower noses that those specified in the 2014 regs.

#558 BillBald

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:15

I read somewhere that cuz of this rule, push-rod front suspensions will be way to go in 2014.


It really depends on what the designers want in terms of geometry.

In theory pull-rod should actually work better with a lower nose (in purely mechanical terms), and it will always give an advantage in terms of components sitting lower in the chassis, which then gives rise to a disadvantage for accessibility.



#559 BillBald

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:20

Mark and quote this post come november 2013

McLare will win WDC and WCC this year


Stirring stuff.

I'd be inclined to agree, but Macca need to get their act together operationally, so I think my money might stay in my wallet for now.



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#560 Mc_Silver

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:22

It really depends on what the designers want in terms of geometry.

In theory pull-rod should actually work better with a lower nose (in purely mechanical terms), and it will always give an advantage in terms of components sitting lower in the chassis, which then gives rise to a disadvantage for accessibility.


In theory, yes I agree with you but it is strange first front pullrod activated torsion springs were used by Minardi in 2001 before Ferrari launched their own version last season. Teams choose accessibility over the aerodynamic gains?

#561 OO7

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:26

In theory, yes I agree with you but it is strange first front pullrod activated torsion springs were used by Minardi in 2001 before Ferrari launched their own version last season. Teams choose accessibility over the aerodynamic gains?

I think perhaps aero has move on (and perhaps suspension design allowing more compact packaging) to the point where it has become beneficial under the current regs.

#562 olliek88

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:28

In theory, yes I agree with you but it is strange first front pullrod activated torsion springs were used by Minardi in 2001 before Ferrari launched their own version last season. Teams choose accessibility over the aerodynamic gains?


Think its more beneficial now with the noses being higher than they were during the 00's, at a guess anyway!

#563 Mc_Silver

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:36

I think perhaps aero has move on (and perhaps suspension design allowing more compact packaging) to the point where it has become beneficial under the current regs.


Good point. I'm curious to see what Newey will do with it. Red Bull were the leading team with pull-rod rear suspensions, I think they'll opt for pull-rod front suspensions as well.

#564 BillBald

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:40

McLaren were bringing new parts till the end of the season.


When I saw the new front wing in Austin, I wondered whether that was actually a 2013 part which they found worked on the 2012 car.

It seemed strange to be introducing a new part with just 2 races to go, and no chance of any titles.





#565 BillBald

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:45

In theory, yes I agree with you but it is strange first front pullrod activated torsion springs were used by Minardi in 2001 before Ferrari launched their own version last season. Teams choose accessibility over the aerodynamic gains?


Of course there's the fact that designers are much more likely to copy a pace-setting car than a Minardi.

I think accessibility had a lot to do with it, also staying with a front-end which was well-refined must have been a factor for McLaren in previous years.




#566 H2H

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 13:50

Think its more beneficial now with the noses being higher than they were during the 00's, at a guess anyway!


Indeed. Just visualize a pull-rod with a low nose - or take the the rear suspension design. No longer nearly horitzontal. In the 2001 yearbook of Piola you have both the older Arrows solution and the Minardi design. While Arrows raced the pull-rod up front in 2000 it was Minardi which managed to package the suspension components neatly at the bottom of the nose.

It is also important to keep in mind that now we have a extremely close field with many big development paths heavily regulated or even block, so the teams put their ressources increasingly in areas where the gains or not as big to get smaller advantages which might prove decisive. It is also correct to state that the technical progess and increased knowledge have made it increasingly possible to suit the mechanics to the aerodynamic needs. The recent brake designs are a great example of it!

I remember Mark Gillan talking about the amazing progress in this area over the last few years.

Edited by H2H, 02 February 2013 - 13:59.


#567 mlsnoopy

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:01

When you look at the car, it looks like an evolution but when you start thinking about it you realize that it's actually a small revolution.
McLaren raised the front bulkhead, they changed the front and rear suspension, changed the side pods plus all the small bits that we are yet to see. Did anybody notice that the 3d model actually had the side pod wings. The biggest question id what will all the changes mean for the balance of the car, how did the balance change and will the drivers be able to find it.

#568 H2H

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:11


To add on what I wrote, from AMuS:

Bei der Vorderradaufhängung blieb Sauber dem Pushrodprinzip treu. Aus Kostengründen. "Pullrod hat wahrscheinlich kleine aerodynamische Vorteile", räumt Morris ein, "aber die aerodynamischen Vorteile zu optimieren und die mechanischen Nachteile zu minimieren ist ein echt aufwendiges Programm, das über unsere Kapazitäten hinausgeht. Das ist ein Projekt für das 2014er Auto."


The first part pretty much reflects what I wrote about the opportunity costs. The second one points however in a different direction, that front pull-rods might be a project for the next year...



#569 Massa

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:38

Good point. I'm curious to see what Newey will do with it. Red Bull were the leading team with pull-rod rear suspensions, I think they'll opt for pull-rod front suspensions as well.



I don't think so.

Last year, Newey said Ferrari have front pull rod only because of the sake of being agressive..

#570 Shiroo

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:42

McLaren already dropped the idea of DRD? Because, afaik Sauber and Lotus both confirmed that they will run it during Winter tests.

#571 Anonymous

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 14:58

McLaren already dropped the idea of DRD? Because, afaik Sauber and Lotus both confirmed that they will run it during Winter tests.


They believe that bigger performance gains can be made elsewhere on the car.

#572 f1rules

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 16:44

shakedown

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=3yVMSX92OUM

Edited by f1rules, 02 February 2013 - 16:44.


#573 OO7

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 16:48

shakedown

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=3yVMSX92OUM

Car looks great! :clap:

#574 ForzaGTR

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 16:51

Mark and quote this post come november 2013

McLare will win WDC and WCC this year


I can't see Button beating Seb. The Red Bull is likely to be a bullet too. It's 4xWDC Seb for me.

#575 Anonymous

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 16:51

Awesome!

Posted Image

#576 sheepgobba

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:04

I can't see Button beating Seb. The Red Bull is likely to be a bullet too. It's 4xWDC Seb for me.


Can't see Button winning the WDC at all regardless if Seb is there or not.

#577 OO7

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:06

Can't see Button winning the WDC at all regardless if Seb is there or not.

If the tyres suit he (which he believes they will) then I think the WDC will be between him and Vettel.

#578 MirNyet

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:10

Can't see Button winning the WDC at all regardless if Seb is there or not.


Holding out hope for the WCC, but I can see Alonso walking off with the WDC this year - he should have had it last year really after McLaren dropped so many balls but was basically robbed at the end of the season by things really out of his control.



#579 sheepgobba

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:11

If the tyres suit he (which he believes they will) then I think the WDC will be between him and Vettel.


But he said that last season too didn't he? I don't think it will be between just him and Vettel though.

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#580 Absulute

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:19

But he said that last season too didn't he? I don't think it will be between just him and Vettel though.


Me either.

Checo will be in the mix ;)

#581 mlsnoopy

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:29

Awesome!

Posted Image


Anything new there?

#582 10e10

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:29

Awesome!

Posted Image


Isn't that the 27?

#583 Absulute

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:29

http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be

Seven glorious seconds

#584 jrg19

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:29

New front wing?

#585 V3TT3L

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:42

Looks like the Silver Donkey :confused:

#586 Zava

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:43

Looks like the Silver Donkey :confused:

that was my first impression too. looks crazy fat. :eek:

#587 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:47

McLaren already dropped the idea of DRD? Because, afaik Sauber and Lotus both confirmed that they will run it during Winter tests.

Sorry for OT, but what is DRD?

#588 ApexMouse

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:49

Sorry for OT, but what is DRD?


Another abbrieviation for double DRS I believe.

Drag Reduction Device?

#589 f1rules

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:49

its the 28, it has the rb like "bargeboards" turning vanes underneath, but no surprise there, it look the same as at the launch, just added last years, late introduced frontwing.
I know we don't like to hear but jezz neweys ideas set the trend so often. Ok Mclaren introduced last season, the exhaust route chosen by most this year. But the wishbone cover of the drivetrain, turning vanes, rear suspension all newey rb's solution from last year copied by both ferrari and mclaren. No matter lets hope the 28 will be mind-blowing fast as it will need to be with those drivers

#590 V3TT3L

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:51

that was my first impression too. looks crazy fat. :eek:

Not fat, just missing some 'yugo' sponsorship on the drivers side and loins.

#591 10e10

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 17:57

Isn't that the 27?


My bad, it's the 28. The sidepods eluded me.

#592 SCUDmissile

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 18:46

Another abbrieviation for double DRS I believe.

Drag Reduction Device?

Thanks man.

#593 OwenC93

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 18:49

It has turning vanes mounted under the nose now. Not much else new I can see.

Posted Image

#594 Raziel

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 18:55

Fun times at the McLaren Technology Centre :up:


#595 Hamm

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 19:02

New front wing?

Brazil, USA

#596 Mc_Silver

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 19:07

It has turning vanes mounted under the nose now. Not much else new I can see.

Posted Image


Car already looks more developed than the launch version. I can see new FW and new turning vanes but I'm there are lots of new bits and pieces that we cannot see..

#597 10e10

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 19:48

Car already looks more developed than the launch version. I can see new FW and new turning vanes but I'm there are lots of new bits and pieces that we cannot see..


I would like to see more new parts in the sidepods and in the back, specially after looking at Sauber's sidepods, however I know it was a short video, not much we could tell from it.

#598 JRizzle86

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 19:57

It will not sport any special additions for the shakedown, just check the car is capable of running.

#599 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 19:58

Sorry for OT, but what is DRD?


I always took it to mean the passive style of Drag Reduction Device, like the one Lotus ran last season. Since it doesn't actually involve the DRS in any way it would be wrong to call it a double DRS.

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#600 Mc_Silver

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 19:58

I would like to see more new parts in the sidepods and in the back, specially after looking at Sauber's sidepods, however I know it was a short video, not much we could tell from it.


IMO C31's sidepods were tighter than the C31's sidepods. People exaggerate it a little bit.

Mp4-28's sidepods are more advanced version of Mp4-23 sidepods IMO.

I wonder if we are gonna see such reduced sidepod inlets which is decreasing cooling capacity but increasing aero efficiency at the low ambient temperatures :)

Posted Image

http://www.formula1....08/803/603.html

Edited by Mc_Silver, 02 February 2013 - 20:00.