Jump to content


Photo
* * * - - 23 votes

McLaren MP4-28


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4028 replies to this topic

#951 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:21

New pit helmets for McLaren surprised no one else picked up on this?

Advertisement

#952 F1hooked

F1hooked
  • Member

  • 69 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:49

New pit helmets for McLaren surprised no one else picked up on this?


I love the old helmet, it was such a classic shape.
I loved the reflection shots of the old helmets with the mechanics around the car.
Anyway's back on topic, i would love to see the MP4 28 look after its tyres this year, last year they just needed to get a few more laps each stint on the tyres, to open up the race for them, but to many times tyre degradation hurt McLaren throughout the race's.

#953 Absulute

Absulute
  • Member

  • 872 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:51

I love the old helmet, it was such a classic shape.
I loved the reflection shots of the old helmets with the mechanics around the car.
Anyway's back on topic, i would love to see the MP4 28 look after its tyres this year, last year they just needed to get a few more laps each stint on the tyres, to open up the race for them, but to many times tyre degradation hurt McLaren throughout the race's.


It shouldn't be a problem, we've replaced the problem English part with an upgraded Mexican part so that should really help...;)

#954 F1hooked

F1hooked
  • Member

  • 69 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 10 February 2013 - 10:59

It shouldn't be a problem, we've replaced the problem English part with an upgraded Mexican part so that should really help...;)

OOOOh snap, You did just say that :lol:
I will miss having the aggressive driver in the McLaren camp. I was hoping to see the 28 on the ragged edge. Its not always exciting watching smooth racing lines :well:

#955 handel

handel
  • Member

  • 414 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:24

Resource restriction says that F1 teams cannot test models bigger than 60%.



Anyone know if the RRA imposes limits on the amount of hours of windtunnel use is allowed? I'm sure it's either this or computer time which has a reg like this.

#956 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 8,890 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 10 February 2013 - 11:42

According to pirelli the difference between Soft and Hard compunds is 1 second so with this logic he could do 1.17.8 :)

I read somewhere that the Hard tyre was actually faster than the medium tyre around Jerez for some reason.

#957 olliek88

olliek88
  • Member

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:28

Anyone know if the RRA imposes limits on the amount of hours of windtunnel use is allowed? I'm sure it's either this or computer time which has a reg like this.


I think there is a limit on wind tunnel time and computer power rather than time. Marussia did a factory walk around with Sky last year sometime and Graham Lowden mentioned they had the maximum allowed computing power i think.

Edited by olliek88, 10 February 2013 - 12:29.


#958 Shiroo

Shiroo
  • Member

  • 4,012 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:37

I think there is a limit on wind tunnel time and computer power rather than time. Marussia did a factory walk around with Sky last year sometime and Graham Lowden mentioned they had the maximum allowed computing power i think.

there is such thing as computing power limit? I believe that BMW had REALLY good supercomputer called Albert 3 or something and it were surpassing any other team. For sure with Wind Tunnel but I wouldnt put my head on computing power limit. and about wind tunnel time, there is a limit for wind tunnel that each team has? i mean the 60% one. Cause afaik there is only limit for the full-scale windtunnel (for example Lotus is using it each year, the one in USA)

Edited by Shiroo, 10 February 2013 - 12:38.


#959 olliek88

olliek88
  • Member

  • 4,044 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:42

there is such thing as computing power limit? I believe that BMW had REALLY good supercomputer called Albert 3 or something and it were surpassing any other team. For sure with Wind Tunnel but I wouldnt put my head on computing power limit. and about wind tunnel time, there is a limit for wind tunnel that each team has? i mean the 60% one. Cause afaik there is only limit for the full-scale windtunnel (for example Lotus is using it each year, the one in USA)


F1 rules only allow an average performance of 40 teraflops


Read more: http://www.theengine...e#ixzz2KV2A0DNK

Advertisement

#960 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 10 February 2013 - 12:44

Anyone know if the RRA imposes limits on the amount of hours of windtunnel use is allowed? I'm sure it's either this or computer time which has a reg like this.



ii) Four one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved straight line or constant radius sites between 1 January of the current year and the start of the last Event of the Championship. Any of these days may be substituted for four hours of wind-on full scale wind tunnel testing to be carried out in a single twenty four hour period.

22.9 With the exception of the full scale testing permitted in 22.4©(iii) above, no wind tunnel testing may be carried out using a scale model which is greater than 60% of full size.
22.10 No wind tunnel testing may be carried out at a speed exceeding 50 metres/second.


and that's about it all

http://www.formula1....s/8713/fia.html

edit: 8 hour/ 15 run shifts/day, and weekends prohibited. Only one tunnel permitted. Not sure about those though, since RRA is basically non-existent, apart from what has been elevated into the FIA rule book as seen above.

Edited by Szoelloe, 10 February 2013 - 19:12.


#961 SNiko

SNiko
  • Member

  • 1,051 posts
  • Joined: June 08

Posted 11 February 2013 - 02:22

According to pirelli the difference between Soft and Hard compunds is 1 second so with this logic he could do 1.17.8 :)


He also did it when the track was quite dirt and the car didn't have a good setup. Although, McLaren has the best simulator in F1, so, usually, when they come to track, the car is 90% ready for racing. Very often they show great results in FP1 (using setup from simulator), then they try to play with setup in FP2 and result becomes much worse. It means that setup from simulator is almost perfect. Also, I noticed that McLaren always (at least last 4 seasons) tries to set fastest time during the first test day for a new car. So, the high result is not unexpected.

#962 mclara

mclara
  • Member

  • 113 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:53

According to pirelli the difference between Soft and Hard compunds is 1 second so with this logic he could do 1.17.8 :)


Thanks. So with additonal rubber on the track maybe a low 1:17 then? :)

#963 Roonaldo

Roonaldo
  • Member

  • 70 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 11 February 2013 - 08:59

He also did it when the track was quite dirt and the car didn't have a good setup. Although, McLaren has the best simulator in F1, so, usually, when they come to track, the car is 90% ready for racing. Very often they show great results in FP1 (using setup from simulator), then they try to play with setup in FP2 and result becomes much worse. It means that setup from simulator is almost perfect. Also, I noticed that McLaren always (at least last 4 seasons) tries to set fastest time during the first test day for a new car. So, the high result is not unexpected.


Lots of assumptions there stated as fact

#964 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 4,762 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:21

Resource restriction says that F1 teams cannot test models bigger than 60%.


The RRA? Because the actual regs say that you can. 2013 Sporting Regulations:

22.4 No track testing may take place :
(...)
h) Between the start of a ten day period which precedes the start of the first Event of the Championship and 31 December of the same year with the following exceptions:
(...)
(ii) Four one day aerodynamic tests carried out on FIA approved straight line or constant radius sites between 1 January of the current year and the start of the last Event of the Championship. Any of these days may be substituted for four hours of wind-on full scale wind tunnel testing to be carried out in a single twenty four hour period.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 11 February 2013 - 09:22.


#965 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 4,762 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:27

Anyone know if the RRA imposes limits on the amount of hours of windtunnel use is allowed? I'm sure it's either this or computer time which has a reg like this.


As far as I can tell the rules only limit time for testing larger than 60%, and it limits wind speed. (See link in my previous post). I don't know whether the RRA imposes additional limits though.

EDit: Szoelloe was much faster than I.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 11 February 2013 - 09:29.


#966 MercPower

MercPower
  • Member

  • 98 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 11 February 2013 - 14:28

Wind Speed is limited and this is monitored so no getting away with going beyond that limit and just no bigger than 60% model size.

Anyway, just signed up. Looks like the moderators have a big job on their hands with this forum keeping everyone in check :-)

Looking forward to the new season.

#967 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 2,466 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 11 February 2013 - 21:59

Thanks for correction about my incomplete resource restriction information.

#968 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 20,051 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 12 February 2013 - 07:44

Please bring the the discussion back to the thread topic - MP4-28

#969 Lazy

Lazy
  • Member

  • 5,188 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:05

Interesting article from GA, McLaren fast and sandbagging, RB not so fast. Merc quick, at least in Nico's hands.
Gary Anderson Form Guide
That order has some big surprises in it - the quickest cars appear to be those of McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes, with Lotus not far behind. And Red Bull - the world champions for the last three years - look relatively slow.

The key point is that anyone who has a quicker 'high-fuel adjusted' time than 'potential' time was almost certainly running more fuel than they needed when they did their 'headline' time.
The prime offenders here are the McLarens - but that is not a surprise, as it is well-known they rarely run low fuel in testing.


#970 bogi

bogi
  • Member

  • 3,026 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 February 2013 - 08:17

For SureTM it's too early to talk about performance.

#971 watercolours

watercolours
  • Member

  • 109 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:07

Interesting article from GA, McLaren fast and sandbagging, RB not so fast. Merc quick, at least in Nico's hands.
Gary Anderson Form Guide
That order has some big surprises in it - the quickest cars appear to be those of McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes, with Lotus not far behind. And Red Bull - the world champions for the last three years - look relatively slow.

The key point is that anyone who has a quicker 'high-fuel adjusted' time than 'potential' time was almost certainly running more fuel than they needed when they did their 'headline' time.
The prime offenders here are the McLarens - but that is not a surprise, as it is well-known they rarely run low fuel in testing.


Is the logic, on which his calculations are based on, solid? Or are there just too many assumptions? By the way, is there any comments on tests by scarbs? I haven't read any.

Edited by watercolours, 12 February 2013 - 09:16.


#972 chumma

chumma
  • Member

  • 960 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:04

Is the logic, on which his calculations are based on, solid? Or are there just too many assumptions? By the way, is there any comments on tests by scarbs? I haven't read any.

1 lap of fuel is worth .086 or something of a second so I think he just multiplied that by the amount of laps each car did to find a medium or something, I don't even really know, which to me says its alot of guess work and very similar to Andrew Benson's attempt at 'number crunching' last winter which was deplorable at best.

#973 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 804 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 12 February 2013 - 11:50

Interesting article from GA, McLaren fast and sandbagging, RB not so fast. Merc quick, at least in Nico's hands.
Gary Anderson Form Guide
That order has some big surprises in it - the quickest cars appear to be those of McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes, with Lotus not far behind. And Red Bull - the world champions for the last three years - look relatively slow.

The key point is that anyone who has a quicker 'high-fuel adjusted' time than 'potential' time was almost certainly running more fuel than they needed when they did their 'headline' time.
The prime offenders here are the McLarens - but that is not a surprise, as it is well-known they rarely run low fuel in testing.


For once I hope GA is right.

#974 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,757 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:10

Whatever happened to "it looks like the Red Bull has 10% more downforce than anything else"? :rolleyes: :stoned:

#975 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 2,149 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:18

Nice read about Ron :)

http://www.motorspor...ith-ron-dennis/

“I know I am obsessive about perfection. I am very focused. Focus is thought to be good, obsession is thought to be bad. But basically they’re the same thing. And then there’s ego. Ego is a core ingredient of ambition. Ambition and ego are close bed-fellows. And, like everybody I suppose, I seek happiness. It’s an uncomplicated objective. I don’t see happiness as laughing or clapping your hands. I see it as the opposite of unhappiness, the opposite of anger, of depression. If you can get into that state of mind, you’re going to be far more productive. What we all want is success.

“And what is success? It’s relief, relief that you haven’t failed. My biggest fear is failure. When you win, you can say, ‘Good, I didn’t finish second. I wasn’t the first of the losers.’”

That’s Ron Dennis, the same at 65 as he was at 25. An unusual man, complex, restless – and totally driven.


Edited by Mc_Silver, 12 February 2013 - 12:32.


#976 loki0420

loki0420
  • Member

  • 410 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:57

Nice read about Ron :)

http://www.motorspor...ith-ron-dennis/

:up: Thank you very much!

#977 Mc_Silver

Mc_Silver
  • Member

  • 2,149 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 12 February 2013 - 13:31

:up: Thank you very much!


You are welcome mate, Ron is an exceptional man really.. :up:

I have another news from an another exceptional man "Mika Hakkinen" :)

I have a strong feeling that McLaren is in top form this year,


http://www.gpupdate....han-i-expected/

Hopefully his feelings will come true  ;)

#978 Hairy

Hairy
  • Member

  • 299 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 12 February 2013 - 13:31

Nice read about Ron :)

http://www.motorspor...ith-ron-dennis/


I have a friend who works at Mclaren, and he has some funny anecdotes about RD. I have many, but shouldn't really divulge.

1. He has his gravel picked up and washed twice a year.
2. The underground tunnel between facilities is fully tiled, and a perfectly angled arc. He had the tunnel tiled 4 times, and ripped out 3 times, as he couldn't see a continuous unbroken line i.e. the tiles weren't uniformly straight all the way through.

He's a perfectionist, he's driven. I don't think he'd have many friends, due to who he is, what he is. Hard man to work for too.

#979 Treads

Treads
  • Member

  • 748 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 12 February 2013 - 13:34

I have a friend who works at Mclaren, and he has some funny anecdotes about RD. I have many, but shouldn't really divulge.

1. He has his gravel picked up and washed twice a year.
2. The underground tunnel between facilities is fully tiled, and a perfectly angled arc. He had the tunnel tiled 4 times, and ripped out 3 times, as he couldn't see a continuous unbroken line i.e. the tiles weren't uniformly straight all the way through.

He's a perfectionist, he's driven. I don't think he'd have many friends, due to who he is, what he is. Hard man to work for too.


Disagree, you should divulge, I'm begging you to divulge, this stuff is gold dust! (Are you SURE those things are true though? They sound too much!)

Advertisement

#980 bogi

bogi
  • Member

  • 3,026 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 12 February 2013 - 13:47

OCD is a nasty thing to live with.

#981 Treads

Treads
  • Member

  • 748 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 12 February 2013 - 14:05

OCD is a nasty thing to live with.


I'm afraid I couldn't comment, I have no knowledge of the subject. And yet for Ron, channeling it the right way, it's made him hugely successful and rich.

#982 Fox1

Fox1
  • Member

  • 623 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 12 February 2013 - 14:36

Nice read about Ron :)

http://www.motorspor...ith-ron-dennis/

All this "perfection" and "2nd is first of the losers" talk is great, but someone needs to remind Ron that Maclarren hasn't won a Constructors Championship in 14 years and has only had 1 Drivers Championship in 13. Straight tunnels, clean gravel (I can understand that BTW), and perfect tiles at the MTC is just superficial talk if your team isn't getting the job done.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for Ron and how he's built McLaren from P4 to where it is today, but F1 is about results and McLaren F1 have fallen far short of where it should be. Ron's attempts to "talk a good game" isn't going to hide that fact.


#983 Hairy

Hairy
  • Member

  • 299 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 12 February 2013 - 15:27

Disagree, you should divulge, I'm begging you to divulge, this stuff is gold dust! (Are you SURE those things are true though? They sound too much!)


Without wanting to sound juvenile, the chap who told me this, is my dearest friend, and someone whom, having known them for 30 years, isn't really given to making stuff up. Senior there too.

I really didn't believe the first one, but it was verified to me as very true, and the second one, well, for me, that didn't need any verification for it's just about who he is; I have been there many times, and the place is simply immaculate.

I can kind of understand the tiling one, for when we had a bathroom done, I called the tiler back a few times, for I could see it wasn't perfect, but the drive...

#984 Szoelloe

Szoelloe
  • Member

  • 5,661 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 12 February 2013 - 16:12

OCD is a nasty thing to live with.


LOL. But it's really not. It is said to be quite satisfactory. It is nasty for the people surrounding you.

#985 Rocket73

Rocket73
  • Member

  • 1,461 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 12 February 2013 - 17:20

I saw that GA article and although I hope he is right I noticed that there was no mention of tyres

#986 MinT

MinT
  • Member

  • 2,029 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 12 February 2013 - 19:23

Without wanting to sound juvenile, the chap who told me this, is my dearest friend, and someone whom, having known them for 30 years, isn't really given to making stuff up. Senior there too.

I really didn't believe the first one, but it was verified to me as very true, and the second one, well, for me, that didn't need any verification for it's just about who he is; I have been there many times, and the place is simply immaculate.

I can kind of understand the tiling one, for when we had a bathroom done, I called the tiler back a few times, for I could see it wasn't perfect, but the drive...


all very interesting im sure...but has nothing to do with this years car.

As to the GA article - doesnt seem very solid to me and he seems to be wrong more often than not. really cant believe the RB is so far behind the rest - or that Perez was/is the fastest. I have high hopes the McLaren is good this year particularly as thye done seem to have gone for a simple eveolution like most teams - but I expect it to be very close.

Edited by MinT, 12 February 2013 - 19:25.


#987 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,387 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 13 February 2013 - 15:24

[url="http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D881&sa=X&ei=HlgZUe3oIcGn0AWLz4CwDg&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAA""]The new McLaren MP4 -28 was also long and hard behind closed garage doors. "The car is so new that we have to learn from scratch. It feels completely different. Some pages of these are good, some not so. We must now sort out the bad of it," admitted Jenson Button too. At least he gave hope: "We have a good base on which we can build the new car is still slower than the old one, but the new approach gives us more room for development..." [/url]

If accurate, its quite a bit different than Whitmarsh or whoevever that was claiming the new car was already like 1 or 2 seconds faster than the old one or whatever it was.

#988 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 15:29

[url="http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D881&sa=X&ei=HlgZUe3oIcGn0AWLz4CwDg&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAA""]The new McLaren MP4 -28 was also long and hard behind closed garage doors. "The car is so new that we have to learn from scratch. It feels completely different. Some pages of these are good, some not so. We must now sort out the bad of it," admitted Jenson Button too. At least he gave hope: "We have a good base on which we can build the new car is still slower than the old one, but the new approach gives us more room for development..." [/url]

If accurate, its quite a bit different than Whitmarsh or whoevever that was claiming the new car was already like 1 or 2 seconds faster than the old one or whatever it was.

Seanspeed : maybe he was referring to it being faster than at this same time last year (prior to in-season development) and before they put on their super duper turbo aeros for the upcoming 3rd test in barcelona :) might have just been referring to the base car in comparison to last years base car. and am not sure he quantified it with how many seconds faster (Although I could be wrong)

Jenson onthe other hand might have been comparing it with the car at the end of the season in Brazil.....

Am speculating as well as it seems strange to me that they would have 2 differing views.

Edited by BernieEc, 13 February 2013 - 15:33.


#989 10e10

10e10
  • Member

  • 804 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 13 February 2013 - 15:42

[url="http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D881&sa=X&ei=HlgZUe3oIcGn0AWLz4CwDg&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAA""]The new McLaren MP4 -28 was also long and hard behind closed garage doors. "The car is so new that we have to learn from scratch. It feels completely different. Some pages of these are good, some not so. We must now sort out the bad of it," admitted Jenson Button too. At least he gave hope: "We have a good base on which we can build the new car is still slower than the old one, but the new approach gives us more room for development..." [/url]

If accurate, its quite a bit different than Whitmarsh or whoevever that was claiming the new car was already like 1 or 2 seconds faster than the old one or whatever it was.

I hope that the gamble McLaren made pays off. It was the fastest car at the end of last year, so it would be bad to take a step back.

#990 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,626 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 13 February 2013 - 16:07

Seanspeed : maybe he was referring to it being faster than at this same time last year (prior to in-season development) and before they put on their super duper turbo aeros for the upcoming 3rd test in barcelona :) might have just been referring to the base car in comparison to last years base car. and am not sure he quantified it with how many seconds faster (Although I could be wrong)

Jenson onthe other hand might have been comparing it with the car at the end of the season in Brazil.....

Am speculating as well as it seems strange to me that they would have 2 differing views.

Wouldn't make any sense to compare the new car to a year old aero spec.
He was likely referring to the car they had in the tunnel at that time with e.g. Melbourne spec aero.
The launch/early test spec is always several development steps behind the the model they have in the tunnel.

Edit: Never saw a quote where Whitmarsh quantified how much faster. That is surely a fan fabrication.

Edited by Timstr11, 13 February 2013 - 16:09.


#991 BernieEc

BernieEc
  • Member

  • 2,131 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 16:41

Wouldn't make any sense to compare the new car to a year old aero spec.
He was likely referring to the car they had in the tunnel at that time with e.g. Melbourne spec aero.
The launch/early test spec is always several development steps behind the the model they have in the tunnel.

Edit: Never saw a quote where Whitmarsh quantified how much faster. That is surely a fan fabrication.


I thought as much as well.

#992 Markn93

Markn93
  • Member

  • 4,075 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 16:48

Wouldn't make any sense to compare the new car to a year old aero spec.
He was likely referring to the car they had in the tunnel at that time with e.g. Melbourne spec aero.
The launch/early test spec is always several development steps behind the the model they have in the tunnel.

Edit: Never saw a quote where Whitmarsh quantified how much faster. That is surely a fan fabrication.

Don't be so sure. He definitely mentioned something along those lines during launch, sifting through quotes now trying to find exactly what. I think it may have been some sort of comparison with Brazil spec 27.

#993 mclarennut

mclarennut
  • Member

  • 477 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 13 February 2013 - 17:02

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh echoed Neale’s sentiments, saying that although they finished 2012 with “undoubtedly the quickest car”, the new approach was already yielding positive results.

“In changing things you inevitably step back, but this car is already quicker than the car we finished last year with,” he said. “At the moment we’re in a very encouraging development stage. In all that we are looking at - downforce and other parameters that affect performance - this car is responding very well. The engineers had a detailed technical review yesterday and you cannot help coming out of it thinking we have a competitive car.


They never said how much quicker but they did say it was faster than the car they finished with last year, so I guess that must be Brazil.. So Button is contradicting Whitmarsh and Neale's and I find that strange



#994 Amphicar

Amphicar
  • Member

  • 1,867 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 13 February 2013 - 17:10

Don't be so sure. He definitely mentioned something along those lines during launch, sifting through quotes now trying to find exactly what. I think it may have been some sort of comparison with Brazil spec 27.

What Martin Whitmarsh actually said at the launch of the MP4-28 is "According to our figures, what we have now is already quicker than the car we raced at the end of 2012."

No quantification of how much faster and clearly based on simulator figures. However after the first day's testing Jenson Button said "The important thing is the car really does relate to the simulator, and that's something that's good." So if the 28 relates well to the simulator and it is faster than the Brazil spec 27 on the simulator, Whitmarsh's comments should be accurate.



#995 femi

femi
  • Member

  • 6,203 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 13 February 2013 - 17:21

I have a friend who works at Mclaren, and he has some funny anecdotes about RD. I have many, but shouldn't really divulge.

1. He has his gravel picked up and washed twice a year.
2. The underground tunnel between facilities is fully tiled, and a perfectly angled arc. He had the tunnel tiled 4 times, and ripped out 3 times, as he couldn't see a continuous unbroken line i.e. the tiles weren't uniformly straight all the way through.

He's a perfectionist, he's driven. I don't think he'd have many friends, due to who he is, what he is. Hard man to work for too.


The way he defines happyness suggests to me that here is a man trying to describe something he only imagines but never really experienced.

#996 Rinehart

Rinehart
  • Member

  • 8,891 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 13 February 2013 - 17:30

Interesting article from GA, McLaren fast and sandbagging, RB not so fast. Merc quick, at least in Nico's hands.
Gary Anderson Form Guide
That order has some big surprises in it - the quickest cars appear to be those of McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes, with Lotus not far behind. And Red Bull - the world champions for the last three years - look relatively slow.

The key point is that anyone who has a quicker 'high-fuel adjusted' time than 'potential' time was almost certainly running more fuel than they needed when they did their 'headline' time.
The prime offenders here are the McLarens - but that is not a surprise, as it is well-known they rarely run low fuel in testing.


I couldn't believe my eyes when I read GA's article and it didn't mention tyres.
I'm sticking with a simpler system:
If a driver calls a lap "amazing" or any other adjective failing to disguise astonishment, its usually a sure fire give away that the driver has momentarily let his guard down and admitted his/another car is pretty quick.

#997 MP422

MP422
  • Member

  • 1,797 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 13 February 2013 - 17:39

Don't be so sure. He definitely mentioned something along those lines during launch, sifting through quotes now trying to find exactly what. I think it may have been some sort of comparison with Brazil spec 27.



I remember a figure being mentioned. I think it was addressed as more of an expected target for all the top teams though.

#998 svalgis

svalgis
  • Member

  • 56 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 13 February 2013 - 17:49

I couldn't believe my eyes when I read GA's article and it didn't mention tyres.
I'm sticking with a simpler system:
If a driver calls a lap "amazing" or any other adjective failing to disguise astonishment, its usually a sure fire give away that the driver has momentarily let his guard down and admitted his/another car is pretty quick.

unless the lap described is hamilton's, then it's just mind games to get him to move to force india next season.

#999 Timstr11

Timstr11
  • Member

  • 7,626 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 13 February 2013 - 18:01

They never said how much quicker but they did say it was faster than the car they finished with last year, so I guess that must be Brazil.. So Button is contradicting Whitmarsh and Neale's and I find that strange

Key is he's saying “At the moment we’re in a very encouraging development stage.''. The stage you have seen at Jerez testing is not the latest development stage.

Advertisement

#1000 mclarennut

mclarennut
  • Member

  • 477 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 13 February 2013 - 18:39

Key is he's saying “At the moment we’re in a very encouraging development stage.''. The stage you have seen at Jerez testing is not the latest development stage.



No it was before the Jerez testing at the at the unveiling of McLaren, I think Buttons first day testing just underlines what whitmarsh was saying and button is just hiding the truth, but I am just guessing like everyone else. but I really hope whitmarsh is right :) http://www.formula1....13/1/14224.html sry for linking f1 site, not sure if that is allowed?

Edited by mclarennut, 13 February 2013 - 18:43.