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McLaren MP4-28


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#1001 mclarensmps

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 21:52

I never believe a word GA has to say... especially about McLaren.

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#1002 Owen

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 21:58

Some snippets of info from autosport:
- new front wing to appear by third pre season test
- autosport reckons car has 2 months development time lead on RBR and Ferrari
- 2014 car project already under way(!)
- new rear suspension should improve tyre life
- new tyres theoretically may be an advantage for Buttons driving style
- two key blockages that relate to the architecture of last years car, have been released, raised nose to make front wing work harder, and narrower rear bodywork and better undercut resulting in more downforce.

#1003 Markn93

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 22:07

Sounds impressive :up:

Car won't be to blame if titles aren't won this year methinks.

#1004 BillBald

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 00:05

[url="http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D881&sa=X&ei=HlgZUe3oIcGn0AWLz4CwDg&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAA""]The new McLaren MP4 -28 was also long and hard behind closed garage doors. "The car is so new that we have to learn from scratch. It feels completely different. Some pages of these are good, some not so. We must now sort out the bad of it," admitted Jenson Button too. At least he gave hope: "We have a good base on which we can build the new car is still slower than the old one, but the new approach gives us more room for development..." [/url]

If accurate, its quite a bit different than Whitmarsh or whoevever that was claiming the new car was already like 1 or 2 seconds faster than the old one or whatever it was.

I haven't seen similar comments from Jenson reported by any other source, so this is really a bit puzzling.





#1005 weareracing

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 00:13

I KNOW it's a cliche, but.....
To prosper on race-day you NEED to qualify on the first 2 (maybe 3 at some tracks) rows of the grid.
I see this as McLarens Achilees heel for 2013.
Having said that, looking forward to the seasoner opener in Australia, it's tended to be good for Jenson in recent years. :up:

#1006 Seanspeed

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 01:59

I haven't seen similar comments from Jenson reported by any other source, so this is really a bit puzzling.

I agree, its a bit strange. I'm not taking it for gospel, but like I said, if true, its definitely painting a different picture than what we've heard so far.

#1007 Lemans

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 03:20

Some snippets of info from autosport:
- new front wing to appear by third pre season test
- autosport reckons car has 2 months development time lead on RBR and Ferrari
- 2014 car project already under way(!)
- new rear suspension should improve tyre life
- new tyres theoretically may be an advantage for Buttons driving style
- two key blockages that relate to the architecture of last years car, have been released, raised nose to make front wing work harder, and narrower rear bodywork and better undercut resulting in more downforce.


Thanks. Sounds good.



#1008 F1hooked

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 11:45

ITS like a ghost town in here compared the last couple of years, seems all the Lewis fans have left.
I think its a good sign that things are silent on the McLaren side! they must be very busy with a little smile knowing they have a quick car :) :up:
Any News ATM ANDY?? :clap:

#1009 Markn93

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 12:48

ITS like a ghost town in here compared the last couple of years, seems all the Lewis fans have left.
I think its a good sign that things are silent on the McLaren side! they must be very busy with a little smile knowing they have a quick car :) :up:
Any News ATM ANDY?? :clap:

Also the car's good and there's not much to say other than that. Not all Lewis fans have left!

#1010 jrg19

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 13:10

ITS like a ghost town in here compared the last couple of years, seems all the Lewis fans have left.
I think its a good sign that things are silent on the McLaren side! they must be very busy with a little smile knowing they have a quick car :) :up:
Any News ATM ANDY?? :clap:


Not much to discuss, car looks good.

#1011 10e10

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 14:32

ITS like a ghost town in here compared the last couple of years, seems all the Lewis fans have left.
I think its a good sign that things are silent on the McLaren side! they must be very busy with a little smile knowing they have a quick car :) :up:
Any News ATM ANDY?? :clap:


There is no sign to worry about at least for now. If the car is fast then we will quietly be happy. I am a Lewis fan as well, but I will never leave McLaren. :)

#1012 Rinehart

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 15:06

[url="http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D881&sa=X&ei=HlgZUe3oIcGn0AWLz4CwDg&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAA""]The new McLaren MP4 -28 was also long and hard behind closed garage doors. "The car is so new that we have to learn from scratch. It feels completely different. Some pages of these are good, some not so. We must now sort out the bad of it," admitted Jenson Button too. At least he gave hope: "We have a good base on which we can build the new car is still slower than the old one, but the new approach gives us more room for development..." [/url]

If accurate, its quite a bit different than Whitmarsh or whoevever that was claiming the new car was already like 1 or 2 seconds faster than the old one or whatever it was.

Martin didn't quantify how much faster, he was taking conceptually based on science and simulation - he actually made the comments at LAUNCH before the car had tested.

Jenson might be talking literally. As in the 2013 car could be slower than the 2012 car in Brazil spec, but that could still make it faster than the 2012 a year ago at the same stage of development...

Whatever, I bet it will be quicker than the 2012 car at the first race. I bet every team has improved on a like for like basis.

I'm cautiously optimistic that Jenson and McLaren will be in the title hunt this season. As Adrian Newey says, its a pretty stable year, its unlikely that the status quo will have changed much. But I do believe the tyres will suit Jenson better. I'm expecting 2012 potential pace realised on a more consistent basis therefore...

#1013 Mc_Silver

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 15:54

Some snippets of info from autosport:
- new front wing to appear by third pre season test
- autosport reckons car has 2 months development time lead on RBR and Ferrari
- 2014 car project already under way(!)
- new rear suspension should improve tyre life
- new tyres theoretically may be an advantage for Buttons driving style
- two key blockages that relate to the architecture of last years car, have been released, raised nose to make front wing work harder, and narrower rear bodywork and better undercut resulting in more downforce.


Thanks a lot mate, looking promising :up:


#1014 skid solo

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 17:23

[url="http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-test-jerez-analyse-red-bull-auf-titelkurs-6629505.html%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1920%26bih%3D881&sa=X&ei=HlgZUe3oIcGn0AWLz4CwDg&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAA""]The new McLaren MP4 -28 was also long and hard behind closed garage doors. "The car is so new that we have to learn from scratch. It feels completely different. Some pages of these are good, some not so. We must now sort out the bad of it," admitted Jenson Button too. At least he gave hope: "We have a good base on which we can build the new car is still slower than the old one, but the new approach gives us more room for development..." [/url]

If accurate, its quite a bit different than Whitmarsh or whoevever that was claiming the new car was already like 1 or 2 seconds faster than the old one or whatever it was.

Are they assessing that on Button's or Lewis' times last year?

Edited by skid solo, 14 February 2013 - 19:04.


#1015 JRizzle86

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:35

ITS like a ghost town in here compared the last couple of years, seems all the Lewis fans have left.
I think its a good sign that things are silent on the McLaren side! they must be very busy with a little smile knowing they have a quick car :) :up:
Any News ATM ANDY?? :clap:


Quiet confidence. :) Car looks good, nothing happening on track, nothing to discuss.

If you want the swing-o-meter rationale it has migrated to the Merc thread.

Edited by JRizzle86, 14 February 2013 - 19:38.


#1016 F1hooked

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:45

Quiet confidence. :) Car looks good, nothing happening on track, nothing to discuss.

If you want the swing-o-meter rationale it has migrated to the Merc thread.

Trust me I know, that thread is crazy,I gave my view point in that thread and got my head bitten off :rotfl:

#1017 Absulute

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:54

Itching for action now! Can't wait to see the 28 dominate in Oz ;)

#1018 BernieEc

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 19:57

Trust me I know, that thread is crazy,I gave my view point in that thread and got my head bitten off :rotfl:


truth be told. The posters who called you out (and rightfully so) were "teejay" and "seanspeed". One is actually a mcLaren fan and the other a ferrari fan. Most of the Merc fans ignored, but I guess there's always 2 sides to a story. :wave:

Edited by BernieEc, 14 February 2013 - 19:58.


#1019 Clatter

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:05

Sounds impressive :up:

Car won't be to blame if titles aren't won this year methinks.


I suppose you can say that if your going to ignore things like reliability.

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#1020 senna da silva

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:10

Based on the pace of McLaren at the end of 2012 and the fact that Button always goes well in Australia anything less than a podium in Oz should be looked at as complete failure for the MP4-28 and Button.

#1021 F1hooked

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:12

truth be told. The posters who called you out (and rightfully so) were "teejay" and "seanspeed". One is actually a mcLaren fan and the other a ferrari fan. Most of the Merc fans ignored, but I guess there's always 2 sides to a story. :wave:

You enjoyed the read over in the merc thread didn't you. :kiss: your welcome.

#1022 Markn93

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:12

I suppose you can say that if your going to ignore things like reliability.

True I wasn't thinking of that I meant purely pace-wise. Car seemed ok after initial hiccup in testing though. A flawless test, from a reliability standpoint, next week, and I'll have full faith the issues from last year won't hold the team back to the point they are unable to win either championship.

#1023 Clatter

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:17

True I wasn't thinking of that I meant purely pace-wise. Car seemed ok after initial hiccup in testing though. A flawless test, from a reliability standpoint, next week, and I'll have full faith the issues from last year won't hold the team back to the point they are unable to win either championship.


Don't think there were many issues in testing last year either.

#1024 Markn93

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:24

Don't think there were many issues in testing last year either.

Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, so what if there's perhaps a (similar) pattern? No-one wants issues in testing, rather it's the hope that reliability evidenced in testing holds during races. If the car however has problems next week that cost the team a day/session here or there then it may be appropriate to consider reliability a worry.

#1025 JRizzle86

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:25

Based on the pace of McLaren at the end of 2012 and the fact that Button always goes well in Australia anything less than a podium in Oz should be looked at as complete failure for the MP4-28 and Button.


Well not really, if the next race winner was decided by the previous race win no new car would ever win in F1 :)

Edited by JRizzle86, 14 February 2013 - 20:26.


#1026 Peter Perfect

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:34

Based on the pace of McLaren at the end of 2012 and the fact that Button always goes well in Australia anything less than a podium in Oz should be looked at as complete failure for the MP4-28 and Button.

I'm obviously hoping they go well but you seem awfully certain. What are you basing that on? I thought the general consensus was that the first test was pretty unrepresentative due to the cars not going for performance runs yet and the surface being particularly abrasive.

#1027 Clatter

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:42

Irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, so what if there's perhaps a (similar) pattern? No-one wants issues in testing, rather it's the hope that reliability evidenced in testing holds during races. If the car however has problems next week that cost the team a day/session here or there then it may be appropriate to consider reliability a worry.


How is it irrelevant? The speed of the car was not what let it down last year, but reliablilty was an element that did, and those issues did not show up in testing.

#1028 Markn93

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:46

How is it irrelevant? The speed of the car was not what let it down last year, but reliablilty was an element that did, and those issues did not show up in testing.

Different car. As far as I'm concerned it gets a fresh start, partly because I expect them to have learnt from issues that occured and as JB says it's very different under the skin, just speculating but maybe part of that could be reliability oriented?

#1029 senna da silva

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 20:55

I'm obviously hoping they go well but you seem awfully certain. What are you basing that on? I thought the general consensus was that the first test was pretty unrepresentative due to the cars not going for performance runs yet and the surface being particularly abrasive.


Rule stability and McLaren's ability to develop should keep them up front for the beginning of 2013. Anything other than that should be a surprise.

#1030 JRizzle86

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 21:15

Rule stability and McLaren's ability to develop should keep them up front for the beginning of 2013. Anything other than that should be a surprise.


I am assuming you wish for a surprise.

#1031 Peter Perfect

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 21:32

I am assuming you wish for a surprise.

Well of course. That's why the Button was mentioned in the post and not just the car, it's a personal thing. But I was interested the reasons for the opinion. Rule stability is certainly a factor in the relative performances of this years cars but it sounds as though McLaren have decided to go down a different development path from last year which should yield season-long gains. In which case I guess the positives to take out of the first test are reliability and general pace (i.e. it's not seconds off the norm).

#1032 BigCHrome

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 21:42

I'm cautiously optimistic that Jenson and McLaren will be in the title hunt this season. As Adrian Newey says, its a pretty stable year, its unlikely that the status quo will have changed much. But I do believe the tyres will suit Jenson better. I'm expecting 2012 potential pace realised on a more consistent basis therefore...


But Jenson wasn't in the title hunt last year.

#1033 Peter Perfect

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 21:52

But Jenson wasn't in the title hunt last year.


I think the key part was this.

...
But I do believe the tyres will suit Jenson better.
...


Button clearly suffered with the tyres characteristics last year but on the positive side he and his engineers mostly learned how to deal with it by the end of the year through changes to set-up/equipment/driving style. I wonder how much flexibility McLaren have built into the suspension set-up this year to allow for any unpredicted behaviour from the tyres. Wasn't there a quote where Mercedes specifically said they'd done just that after their tyre wear issues last year? Clearly teams are bearing it in mind.

#1034 P123

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 21:57

But Jenson wasn't in the title hunt last year.


Last year has no relevance. If JB hits the same form as early '09 or late '11 he'll be tough to beat. That's assuming McLaren don't trip themselves up as they did last season.

#1035 chumma

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 23:04

truth be told. The posters who called you out (and rightfully so) were "teejay" and "seanspeed". One is actually a mcLaren fan and the other a ferrari fan. Most of the Merc fans ignored, but I guess there's always 2 sides to a story. :wave:

Have you jumped ship to Merc?

Gary Anderson has baffled me, his latest comments are praising how good the car is and now hes sort of, strayed away from saying how bad the car is with understeer to saying 'they have a little medium corner understeer which they ned to address" far different to his tone during testing.

Also saying Lotus has no understeer and that will hurt tyre life. Well spank my butt and call me Charlie but going by that logic shouldn't McLaren have a good balance? To me, if the understeer was there on all 4 days it is my feeling that it was there because McLaren wanted it there. Drivers weren't complaining of an understeery car either.

#1036 BigCHrome

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 23:22

Last year has no relevance. If JB hits the same form as early '09 or late '11 he'll be tough to beat. That's assuming McLaren don't trip themselves up as they did last season.


It does have relevance, because the poster I was replying to talked about last year.

Button's 09 and 11 cars had tons of rear downforce because of EBD/DDD, something that the current car does not have. I think that had more to do with the results than form.

#1037 senna da silva

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 23:40

Well of course. That's why the Button was mentioned in the post and not just the car, it's a personal thing.


Do you expect Perez to be ahead of Jenson in Australia?

#1038 senna da silva

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 23:43

I am assuming you wish for a surprise.


I wish for a competitive McLaren MP4-28 that can mix it at the front. I don't want to hear about balance issues.

#1039 MirNyet

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 23:46

Have you jumped ship to Merc?

Gary Anderson has baffled me, his latest comments are praising how good the car is and now hes sort of, strayed away from saying how bad the car is with understeer to saying 'they have a little medium corner understeer which they ned to address" far different to his tone during testing.

Also saying Lotus has no understeer and that will hurt tyre life. Well spank my butt and call me Charlie but going by that logic shouldn't McLaren have a good balance? To me, if the understeer was there on all 4 days it is my feeling that it was there because McLaren wanted it there. Drivers weren't complaining of an understeery car either.


The understear is interesting as recent McLarens have had epic front downforce - raising that nose must have moved the balance to the rear at the expense of the front. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing. Fortunately, front downforce is generally easier to find than the rear.

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#1040 chumma

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 00:30

The understear is interesting as recent McLarens have had epic front downforce - raising that nose must have moved the balance to the rear at the expense of the front. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing. Fortunately, front downforce is generally easier to find than the rear.

Well...if you look at the front wing being used, to me it looks like they have TOO much front downforce and were trying to scrub a bit off for better balance, which to me says that the new wing coming for Barcelona will be to add back whatever downforce was stripped off. of course, the wing being used was optimised for last years car aswell, so surely, with a front wing optimised for this car, and added downforce, whatever short comings they have at the front should be rectified pretty quickly. Again, I think McLaren expected the understeer with an old front wing.

#1041 rodlamas

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 02:10

Mclaren's MP4/28 Steering Wheel

VERY interesting, though I think there is a mistake on the center of the steering wheel, as the WHITE knob D also controls the diferential, whereas brake bias is adjusted from a lever outer of the drivers left leg.

#1042 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:30

Mclaren's MP4/28 Steering Wheel

VERY interesting, though I think there is a mistake on the center of the steering wheel, as the WHITE knob D also controls the diferential, whereas brake bias is adjusted from a lever outer of the drivers left leg.

Yes, brake balance has to be mechanically controlled I understand, so this is a mistake.

#1043 BigCHrome

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 04:45

I've never seen a McLaren driver reach down to his leg to change brake bias ala Ferrari/Mercedes.

#1044 Rybo

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:03

I've never seen a McLaren driver reach down to his leg to change brake bias ala Ferrari/Mercedes.


If I'm not mistaken the rapid adjuster has to be positioned off of the wheel. Hamilton I presume does it around 1:34

http://youtu.be/tD_Qfv-vxtM?t=1m30s


and here as well


Edited by Rybo, 15 February 2013 - 05:06.


#1045 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 05:08

I've never seen a McLaren driver reach down to his leg to change brake bias ala Ferrari/Mercedes.

I have. Its next to the drivers left thigh and very close to the steering wheel. It can be altered with very little displacement of the drivers hand from the wheel, just rotating the wrist if I recall correctly.

#1046 argiriano

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 06:39

Have you jumped ship to Merc?

Gary Anderson has baffled me, his latest comments are praising how good the car is and now hes sort of, strayed away from saying how bad the car is with understeer to saying 'they have a little medium corner understeer which they ned to address" far different to his tone during testing.

Also saying Lotus has no understeer and that will hurt tyre life. Well spank my butt and call me Charlie but going by that logic shouldn't McLaren have a good balance? To me, if the understeer was there on all 4 days it is my feeling that it was there because McLaren wanted it there. Drivers weren't complaining of an understeery car either.

Actually GA never sad understeer was bad he just sad MP4-28 shows some understeer and some of us here decide it is a bad thing. Understeer may be a good sign this year with softer tyres, also cars will be developed so they`ll change untill the first race. Barcelona will be much more revieling about the car strengths but there`s no sings McLaren is weak for now... I also think that now with Lewis left luck will come here again making Jenson and Checko WDC contenders. :cat:

#1047 alframsey

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 07:36

Have you jumped ship to Merc?

Gary Anderson has baffled me, his latest comments are praising how good the car is and now hes sort of, strayed away from saying how bad the car is with understeer to saying 'they have a little medium corner understeer which they ned to address" far different to his tone during testing.

Also saying Lotus has no understeer and that will hurt tyre life. Well spank my butt and call me Charlie but going by that logic shouldn't McLaren have a good balance? To me, if the understeer was there on all 4 days it is my feeling that it was there because McLaren wanted it there. Drivers weren't complaining of an understeery car either.

I've never been a fan of GA, never ever in my life! I mean while I do appreciate his insight there is a reason teams aren't paying him to do what he does for the BBC for them, you'd think some of the things he suggests about a car hadn't already been thought up by the respective team. The man pisses me off greatly, as does Eddie Jordan!

Anyway back on topic, I am extremely positive about this year! Nothing being said by the team is a good sign I am guessing, and the car looks brilliant. Bring on 2013 :D

#1048 Rinehart

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:05

It does have relevance, because the poster I was replying to talked about last year.


Yes, and pointed out 1 massive potential difference in the tyres as a potential reason why Button will be more consistently competitive.
Absolutely fine if you disagree but to say, no due to what happened last year really is at odds with the point I am making.


#1049 Rinehart

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:10

Based on the pace of McLaren at the end of 2012 and the fact that Button always goes well in Australia anything less than a podium in Oz should be looked at as complete failure for the MP4-28 and Button.


Ferrari were considerably slower in Australia 2012 than they were in Abu Dhabi 2011.
I think your agenda here is to knock Button (again).
Success will be decided over the course of the season.

#1050 bonjon1979a

bonjon1979a
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  • Joined: August 10

Posted 15 February 2013 - 10:24

What Martin Whitmarsh actually said at the launch of the MP4-28 is "According to our figures, what we have now is already quicker than the car we raced at the end of 2012."

No quantification of how much faster and clearly based on simulator figures. However after the first day's testing Jenson Button said "The important thing is the car really does relate to the simulator, and that's something that's good." So if the 28 relates well to the simulator and it is faster than the Brazil spec 27 on the simulator, Whitmarsh's comments should be accurate.



Everyone's forgetting that the car in the simulator now is a long way ahead of the test mule that button was driving. It's entirely possible for Whitmarsh to be saying that the car they have in the simulator is x much faster than last years car while at the same time the current test car is slower. Button can say that the car correlates with the simulator because they put in the settings for the test car into the simulator rather than those of the updated car that they're currently going to be building for Melbourne. Truth is, they will be about four months ahead in the simulator/CFD design office when compared to whatevers on track so it's entirely possible for all these seemingly contradictory statements to be true because they relate to cars at different stages of development.