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McLaren MP4-28


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#1901 amppatel

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 13:07

You just wont let any chance to put this team down, how about to start writing MP4-28 related stuff?


The car is not quick atm, but the technical team is great and I'm sure they will sort it out by AUS, the drivers should be able to drive it fine and they should put it somewhere on the front two rows.

Throughout the season they will be close to the top, and maybe their car will be the fastest overall throughout the season.

But my point is that IF the car is the fastest throughout the season (like it was in 2012) I would not be confident in saying they will win a championship. Whereas if it was ANY of the other top teams (even Sauber, Williams and FI) I would put money on them winning both championships.

End of the day the car will always be great, every year, but the team will somehow mess up - but I guess their only motivation is to win races and their methods definitely work for that so I guess they are happy!



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#1902 Lazy

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 14:58

The car is not quick atm, but the technical team is great and I'm sure they will sort it out by AUS, the drivers should be able to drive it fine and they should put it somewhere on the front two rows.

Throughout the season they will be close to the top, and maybe their car will be the fastest overall throughout the season.

But my point is that IF the car is the fastest throughout the season (like it was in 2012) I would not be confident in saying they will win a championship. Whereas if it was ANY of the other top teams (even Sauber, Williams and FI) I would put money on them winning both championships.

End of the day the car will always be great, every year, but the team will somehow mess up - but I guess their only motivation is to win races and their methods definitely work for that so I guess they are happy!


It's like peoples perception on Button though, you seem to be basing your judgement purely on last year. McLaren are a highly successful organisation but if you've been following F1 long enough you'll know that nobody stays on top for ever. It was Mclaren, then Williams, then Ferrari, now Red Bull. The difference with Ferrari and McLaren is that whilst others come and go, they are nearly always at the sharp end.

The difference between winning and losing in this sport is a very fine line.

The car was not great in 2009 but the team was, 2010 the car was ok team were great, same with 2011. 2012 was the exception, not the rule.



#1903 mlsnoopy

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 16:53

The worst case scenario is that McLaren could be similar to Mercedes last year. Solid over a single lap but horrible over the race distance. Let's wait and see.

#1904 charly0418

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 16:56

The worst case scenario is that McLaren could be similar to Mercedes last year. Solid over a single lap but horrible over the race distance. Let's wait and see.


Perez has 2 pit stops in 2 Australian GPs, he'll be fine on the 1st race.

#1905 MercPower

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 17:00

The worst case scenario is that McLaren could be similar to Mercedes last year. Solid over a single lap but horrible over the race distance. Let's wait and see.


I am a Mclaren fan and i have a smile on my face because i know we will be fighting Redbull for the title this year.

Ignore comments made in testing, trust me :up:

#1906 Mc_Silver

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 17:01

Perez has 2 pit stops in 2 Australian GPs, he'll be fine on the 1st race.


:lol: :lol:

#1907 Treads

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 17:17

It's like peoples perception on Button though, you seem to be basing your judgement purely on last year. McLaren are a highly successful organisation but if you've been following F1 long enough you'll know that nobody stays on top for ever. It was Mclaren, then Williams, then Ferrari, now Red Bull. The difference with Ferrari and McLaren is that whilst others come and go, they are nearly always at the sharp end.

The difference between winning and losing in this sport is a very fine line.

The car was not great in 2009 but the team was, 2010 the car was ok team were great, same with 2011. 2012 was the exception, not the rule.


This. McLaren are always there or thereabouts, a few seasons excepted, which is more than any other team can say, with the possible exception of Ferrari (and even Ferrari have had some pretty low points over the year). Their consistency at the sharp end of the grid over the last 30 years is a staggering achievement.

#1908 WitnessX

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:24

I heard that the McLaren performed well on the last day of testing, probably helped by slightly warmer weather.

The problem is that I haven't been able to find any stint times, graphics of long stints etc.

James Allen has started his analysis column, which fortunately seems to be more errr.. "refined" than other sources.

http://www.jamesalle...celona-f1-test/

My impression at the time (watching sky) was that they were doing degradation A/B tests, possibly with changes to the suspension in between.

#1909 onewingedangel

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:33

Gary Anderson has just put his predicted Melbourne grid with McLaren level with Red Bull but behind Mercedes on qualifying pace, but with questionmarks over race pace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21660055

Disclaimer: I don't think there are trucks big enough to carry the amount of salt you need take this with.

#1910 Owen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:43

Gary Anderson has just put his predicted Melbourne grid with McLaren level with Red Bull but behind Mercedes on qualifying pace, but with questionmarks over race pace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21660055

Disclaimer: I don't think there are trucks big enough to carry the amount of salt you need take this with.

2nd and 8th. Suppose I would take that in the hope we can develop fast thereafter.

#1911 MirNyet

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:36

Gary Anderson has just put his predicted Melbourne grid with McLaren level with Red Bull but behind Mercedes on qualifying pace, but with questionmarks over race pace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21660055

Disclaimer: I don't think there are trucks big enough to carry the amount of salt you need take this with.


If the tires are the eggshells that some are saying, Quali is likely to count for little come race day.

#1912 bonjon1979a

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 20:47

If the tires are the eggshells that some are saying, Quali is likely to count for little come race day.


Di resta did 34 laps on a set of hards during the final day of testing. Barcelona is notoriously hard on it's tyres, if you can go over half race distance on one set then I suspect that we won't see too many problems this year. I expect 2 stops at Aus unless a car has particular problems with it's tyres. It sounds like mac struggled a bit with this in Barcelona but i'd guess that it's probably just because of the cold temperatures.

#1913 MirNyet

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:28

Di resta did 34 laps on a set of hards during the final day of testing. Barcelona is notoriously hard on it's tyres, if you can go over half race distance on one set then I suspect that we won't see too many problems this year. I expect 2 stops at Aus unless a car has particular problems with it's tyres. It sounds like mac struggled a bit with this in Barcelona but i'd guess that it's probably just because of the cold temperatures.


Ok, good to hear - heard nothing but horror stories in the press about this years tires.

#1914 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:37

The car is not quick atm, but the technical team is great and I'm sure they will sort it out by AUS, the drivers should be able to drive it fine and they should put it somewhere on the front two rows.


Information or opinion?

I am a Mclaren fan and i have a smile on my face because i know we will be fighting Redbull for the title this year.

Ignore comments made in testing, trust me :up:


x2 Me too. :up:

Keep The Faith



#1915 pacificquay

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:45

A lot of people - ampatel, femi and the like in this thread claim to be McLaren fans but seem in reality to be haters.

I still believe a good season lies ahead.

#1916 10e10

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 21:46

I am a Mclaren fan and i have a smile on my face because i know we will be fighting Redbull for the title this year.

Ignore comments made in testing, trust me :up:


Hope you're right. This is a team that it's always fighting at the front, so I believe we will do it again this season.

#1917 amppatel

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:01

Information or opinion?


Opinion, its more like IF the car is not fast. No one knows yet...


A lot of people - ampatel, femi and the like in this thread claim to be McLaren fans but seem in reality to be haters.

I still believe a good season lies ahead.


No you misunderstood, I am NOT a fan - I don't claim to be, I am a hater. I could not support a team with this mentality. Out of all the teams I respect RBR the most, they do what ever they have to to win.


#1918 BernieEc

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:05

2nd and 8th. Suppose I would take that in the hope we can develop fast thereafter.


both McLarens will be in the top 4. That car is fast. They just need to get the setup right

#1919 Shiroo

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:15

both McLarens will be in the top 4. That car is fast. They just need to get the setup right

with perez and button behind the wheel? maybe in race, doubtful in qualification

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#1920 Owen

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 22:36

McLaren sporting director Sam Michael predicts the 2013 season will be "incredible close" after the conclusion of pre-season testing.

Jenson Button finished the final day of testing third quickest but with a best time over 1.3s slower than Mercedes' Nico Rosberg. However, Michael was keen to point out that chasing lap time had not been the aim of McLaren's programme and that the team had accumulated the mileage it had set out to.

"After completing over 5,000 kilometres, through dry and wet conditions, we have collected plenty of data from MP4-28A," Michael said. "A large part of winter testing is taken up with methodically working through many systems checks and verifying that the correlation between design and track is solid - that's more important in modern F1 as track testing opportunities are so limited."

EspnF1.com

#1921 BillBald

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 23:11

James Allen has started his analysis column, which fortunately seems to be more errr.. "refined" than other sources.

http://www.jamesalle...celona-f1-test/

My impression at the time (watching sky) was that they were doing degradation A/B tests, possibly with changes to the suspension in between.


Thanks for the link.

Jenson's last 3 stints get progressively faster. Hopefully that is due to improving the setup and/or driving technique, but more likely it's just a reducing fuel load.

We have to hope that McLaren were running lots of fuel, because they don't look quick in either short or long runs.



#1922 Rinehart

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 23:46

McLaren sporting director Sam Michael predicts the 2013 season will be "incredible close" after the conclusion of pre-season testing.

Jenson Button finished the final day of testing third quickest but with a best time over 1.3s slower than Mercedes' Nico Rosberg. However, Michael was keen to point out that chasing lap time had not been the aim of McLaren's programme and that the team had accumulated the mileage it had set out to.

"After completing over 5,000 kilometres, through dry and wet conditions, we have collected plenty of data from MP4-28A," Michael said. "A large part of winter testing is taken up with methodically working through many systems checks and verifying that the correlation between design and track is solid - that's more important in modern F1 as track testing opportunities are so limited."

EspnF1.com


My "guess" is that red bull and mclaren have been more methodical in tests as a consequence of evolving the quickest cars from last year whereas Ferrari, lotus and Mercedes have needed to verify needed performance gains hence showing a little more of their hands.

I'm completely confident that Sam has it right and that mclaren will be right in the mix as the season unfolds.

#1923 tkulla

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 13:08

Thanks for the link.

Jenson's last 3 stints get progressively faster. Hopefully that is due to improving the setup and/or driving technique, but more likely it's just a reducing fuel load.

We have to hope that McLaren were running lots of fuel, because they don't look quick in either short or long runs.


If they were doing setup work I would think they would leave the fuel load the same each run for comparison's sake.

I'm encouraged that they really didn't spend much time going for a quick lap. It speaks of a quiet confidence, much like Red Bull.

Button seems quietly confident too. His latest tweets:

"...Last day of testing went well in terms of mileage and reliability. Still think there is some work to do on outright pace but we're working on that ;)"

#1924 Seanspeed

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 13:43

James Allen has started his analysis column, which fortunately seems to be more errr.. "refined" than other sources.

http://www.jamesalle...celona-f1-test/

Nice. :up:

Yea, this is definitely much more insightful than other analysis' I'm reading.

#1925 BillBald

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 13:54

If they were doing setup work I would think they would leave the fuel load the same each run for comparison's sake.

I'm encouraged that they really didn't spend much time going for a quick lap. It speaks of a quiet confidence, much like Red Bull.

Button seems quietly confident too. His latest tweets:

"...Last day of testing went well in terms of mileage and reliability. Still think there is some work to do on outright pace but we're working on that ;)"


Yes, indeed, but you'd have to be a bit optimistic to think that such large gains could come from setup alone.

But then the setup is clearly not right, so maybe they can make big improvements.

I just hope they designed a lot of adjustability into the suspension, so they don't find themselves in the position Merc were in before.



#1926 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 14:53

Nice. :up:

Yea, this is definitely much more insightful than other analysis' I'm reading.


Although they have showed their hand, at least they know that their car can find the grip on the single lap, whereas several teams have not been able – or willing – to show that yet. Remember that Mercedes was a clear second slower than the pacesetters in the final few races of 2012, so they will not have made up all of that in one winter. But they have definitely improved their car.


The Brackley team were more than a second slower at the end of '08 and were more than a second quicker at the start of '09. They were also very strong at the start of 2012 suggesting their initial design was decent they just developed poorly. Can't see why Merc couldn't be right on the pace in Aus.

#1927 EvanRainer

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 15:16

The Brackley team were more than a second slower at the end of '08 and were more than a second quicker at the start of '09.


Do we really need to explain AGAIN why that was?

Jeebus.

#1928 femi

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 15:57

Didn't know Mclaren renamed the car to MP4-28A

#1929 10e10

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 16:07

Didn't know Mclaren renamed the car to MP4-28A


They always to refer to their chassis a MP4-xA, but they usually omit the A.

#1930 WitnessX

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 16:15

The Brackley team were more than a second slower at the end of '08 and were more than a second quicker at the start of '09. They were also very strong at the start of 2012 suggesting their initial design was decent they just developed poorly. Can't see why Merc couldn't be right on the pace in Aus.

Wrong Thread.

#1931 WitnessX

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 16:20

Yes, indeed, but you'd have to be a bit optimistic to think that such large gains could come from setup alone.

But then the setup is clearly not right, so maybe they can make big improvements.

I just hope they designed a lot of adjustability into the suspension, so they don't find themselves in the position Merc were in before.

I wouldn't read to much into the times.

My understanding is what McLaren are saying is that they went their to test the car, with the priority to gather information about it so that they have a set of data which they could analyse and see which direction the development should best go. They did not go and try and optimise the car to this track and these conditions. Maybe if there was time they could have done that. This "normalised test bed on wheels" may fit with one track better than another.

When testing it is essential that it is a "known" base, multiple component changes between test runs in one go will leave you wondering which of those changes had made which effect.

While I can see its frustrating for fans and journalists, I can understand the philosophy behind it. This year because of the higher degradation tyres the teams will have less testing laps at weekends which means their simulations are increasingly more important.


#1932 mclarensmps

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 16:29

The Brackley team were more than a second slower at the end of '08 and were more than a second quicker at the start of '09. They were also very strong at the start of 2012 suggesting their initial design was decent they just developed poorly. Can't see why Merc couldn't be right on the pace in Aus.


They also don't have half the staff that worked on the car (Super Aguri) with them anymore...

#1933 SCUDmissile

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 18:00

Didn't know Mclaren renamed the car to MP4-28A

All the cars have had the A after their names

#1934 cuatroxcuatro

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 23:33

Hi, same as last year, posting a couple of my photos of the 28, taken on Day 4 at Barcelona.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Cheers, DAO

#1935 OO7

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 23:39

Those are some great pictures cuatroxcuatro. Thanks for sharing them. :up:

#1936 cuatroxcuatro

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 00:23

Those are some great pictures cuatroxcuatro. Thanks for sharing them. :up:

Thanks! They are part of a flickr set that I'm working on....

Have a great 2013 season!

#1937 Hairy

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:29

They always to refer to their chassis a MP4-xA, but they usually omit the A.


Absolutely - First model is always A, then if a major change to the chassis happens, it becomes 'B', and I don't ever recall a 'C'


#1938 Treads

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:10

Absolutely - First model is always A, then if a major change to the chassis happens, it becomes 'B', and I don't ever recall a 'C'


Nor do I. But there was the MP4-17D?

Edited by Treads, 06 March 2013 - 09:10.


#1939 ZooL

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 09:29

Been watching the testing, the car looks to have the slimmest profile to me after the RBR. The Ferrari's and Merc's were visibly more 'chunkier'.
It looks like an excellent car.

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#1940 slmk

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:02

Been watching the testing, the car looks to have the slimmest profile to me after the RBR. The Ferrari's and Merc's were visibly more 'chunkier'.
It looks like an excellent car.


The McLaren sidepods have a nice downwash but are very chunky horizontally (they stick out quite a lot).

#1941 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 10:24

I love this phrase, it pretty much sums up McLaren. You wouldn't hear a RBR fan need to say this - it implies that they are going through problems and lack of performance. For it to become a well known phrase it just means McLaren have been under performing for quite a while.

The fact of it is that McLaren never fail to fail. In my mind they are a front running team but not a championship winning team - Red Bull, Ferrari, Merc would do anything to win a championship, McLaren is too British, were too polite!


It also means that RBR has no history. Which is not a bad thing per se, everyone has to start at some point. But any team that has been around for decades knows ups and downs. If RBR sticks around, their downs will come, too.

#1942 Anonymous

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 19:12

Sergio Perez convinced 'big goals' realistic after McLaren F1 tests

:clap:

#1943 Owen

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 19:16

Love the confidence :up:

#1944 Mc_Silver

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 19:18

Sergio Perez convinced 'big goals' realistic after McLaren F1 tests

:clap:


Keep pushing Checo :up: I think the biggest question mark will be over his one lap pace this year. Let's see what he can do. He will develop and improve himself a lot through the season methinks


#1945 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 22:38

Sergio Perez convinced 'big goals' realistic after McLaren F1 tests

It says the car is better than we think.

Keep The Faith

#1946 MoebiusPT

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 23:08

Absolutely - First model is always A, then if a major change to the chassis happens, it becomes 'B', and I don't ever recall a 'C'


There was a MP4/10C in 1995, around the Portuguese GP. Not the best of memories from that specific model..

#1947 chumma

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 23:18

Nor do I. But there was the MP4-17D?

C May have been early test spec (though I don't think I ever saw it mentioned, I only ever saw D) but somewhere along the line, there would have been a C.

1 week today chaps and I'll be on a flight on my way to the land down under! Luckily for me I am attending a wedding the following week so I thought it best to get there early and get a sneaky grand prix under my belt ;) I will be posting updates through out each day on how the car looks/handles etc aswell as snaps from my pit walk :D

there was a great pitpass article owen posted in another thread, and the writer says it wouldn't surprise him if McLaren show up to Melbourne with a few revisions on their car. I think it more than possible after the last 2 days of data gathering in the dry, the most meaningful of the off season to me anyway, and it gives McLaren 2 weeks (nearly) of time to analyse and get some updates pumping out of their factory! Bring on Melbourne!

#1948 10e10

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 00:06

Sergio Perez convinced 'big goals' realistic after McLaren F1 tests

:clap:


I expect a WDC Sergio!  ;)

#1949 Mc_Silver

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 18:29

C May have been early test spec (though I don't think I ever saw it mentioned, I only ever saw D) but somewhere along the line, there would have been a C.

1 week today chaps and I'll be on a flight on my way to the land down under! Luckily for me I am attending a wedding the following week so I thought it best to get there early and get a sneaky grand prix under my belt ;) I will be posting updates through out each day on how the car looks/handles etc aswell as snaps from my pit walk :D

there was a great pitpass article owen posted in another thread, and the writer says it wouldn't surprise him if McLaren show up to Melbourne with a few revisions on their car. I think it more than possible after the last 2 days of data gathering in the dry, the most meaningful of the off season to me anyway, and it gives McLaren 2 weeks (nearly) of time to analyse and get some updates pumping out of their factory! Bring on Melbourne!


Good post, cannot wait to see your comments mate :up:

#1950 Owen

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Posted 07 March 2013 - 19:34

C May have been early test spec (though I don't think I ever saw it mentioned, I only ever saw D) but somewhere along the line, there would have been a C.

1 week today chaps and I'll be on a flight on my way to the land down under! Luckily for me I am attending a wedding the following week so I thought it best to get there early and get a sneaky grand prix under my belt ;) I will be posting updates through out each day on how the car looks/handles etc aswell as snaps from my pit walk :D

there was a great pitpass article owen posted in another thread, and the writer says it wouldn't surprise him if McLaren show up to Melbourne with a few revisions on their car. I think it more than possible after the last 2 days of data gathering in the dry, the most meaningful of the off season to me anyway, and it gives McLaren 2 weeks (nearly) of time to analyse and get some updates pumping out of their factory! Bring on Melbourne!

very cool. Anything posted is always appreciated (especially in this thread). :up: