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McLaren MP4-28


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#3951 Treads

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:34

Those quotes are pretty depressing IMO. I think a lot of people were expecting a really good step forward, JB talking about rebooting the season, etc etc. All the noises coming out of Mac in these quotes are that they've maybe made a small, incremental step. But that's not enough. And especially it's bad news if it indicates they don't understand where the problems are coming from. Because, if they don't understand that, they can't hope to solve them anytime soon...

Still let's reserve judgement until the race is run.

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#3952 jrg19

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:46

Looks like the car hasn't really moved forward, would we put it ahead of the Force Indias?

#3953 rodlamas

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:58

Strategy to maximize results

One lap shot at Q1 on softs
One lap shot at Q2 on softs
Do not run on Q3

Start the race on mediums, 3 stop-strategy, run new tires all the way, 14 lap 1st stint, 16 lap 2nd stint, 18 lap 3rd stint, 8 lap 4th stint (softs), all the race on new tires.

#3954 Force Ten

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:32

Strategy to maximize results

One lap shot at Q1 on softs
One lap shot at Q2 on softs
Do not run on Q3

Start the race on mediums, 3 stop-strategy, run new tires all the way, 14 lap 1st stint, 16 lap 2nd stint, 18 lap 3rd stint, 8 lap 4th stint (softs), all the race on new tires.

...makes sense. So, being McLaren we can be reasonably sure they won't do it.


#3955 Wingnut

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:34

Strategy to maximize results

One lap shot at Q1 on softs
One lap shot at Q2 on softs
Do not run on Q3

Start the race on mediums, 3 stop-strategy, run new tires all the way, 14 lap 1st stint, 16 lap 2nd stint, 18 lap 3rd stint, 8 lap 4th stint (softs), all the race on new tires.


Computer says no.

#3956 f1rules

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:36

:rotfl: :rotfl: exactly their computers will tell them that given the variables 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 then NO. They then try to argue commen sense, and the computer gets upset,

Im still baffled by mclarens **** up i have to say, its incredible how they could end up in this situation, which they seem no closer solving. Why on earth just not raise the front a little, keep old frontsuspension and incorporate the changes at the rear, and they would be fighting at the front im sure, but once again risk management at mclaren, a joke

Edited by f1rules, 12 April 2013 - 12:46.


#3957 Raziel

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 13:09

Looks like the car hasn't really moved forward, would we put it ahead of the Force Indias?


To see a better picture we´ll have to wait until the end of the race  ;)

#3958 Maustinsj

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 13:10

To see a better picture we´ll have to wait until the end of the race ;)


Speaking of which - any pics?

#3959 jrg19

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 13:12

China GP - Friday - 12/04/2013
http://imgur.com/7BM7b3P.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.co...ANMBS.jpg:large
http://img2.auto-mot...87d6-675447.jpg
http://imgur.com/955oXVV.jpg
http://imgur.com/RLpOrnB.jpg
http://imgur.com/DCgphlR.jpg
http://imgur.com/TkRvcur.jpg
http://imgur.com/pE1awuU.jpg
http://img3.auto-mot...21aa-675499.jpg
http://img1.auto-mot...3062-675495.jpg
http://imgur.com/2mH52uO.jpg
http://imgur.com/qmK7l5m.jpg
http://imgur.com/mDuqSdS.jpg
http://imgur.com/ZbpqtVE.jpg
http://imgur.com/96gLKy9.jpg
http://imgur.com/xdzAI31.jpg
http://img1.auto-mot...98a8-675489.jpg
http://imgur.com/wxtdCFf.jpg
http://imgur.com/1coPR9r.jpg



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#3960 Maustinsj

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 13:24

Ta

#3961 SunnyENTP

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 13:47

Strategy to maximize results

One lap shot at Q1 on softs
One lap shot at Q2 on softs
Do not run on Q3

Start the race on mediums, 3 stop-strategy, run new tires all the way, 14 lap 1st stint, 16 lap 2nd stint, 18 lap 3rd stint, 8 lap 4th stint (softs), all the race on new tires.



I think Brawn and Lotus said they may not even run Q3. It would be funny if all teams did this :lol:

#3962 10e10

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 14:03

The step is too small for 3 weeks break


My thoughts exactly! I was expecting much more!

I want McLaren fighting for race wins ASAP! If we start to really challenge the guys in front by Barcelona, it will be already too late.

#3963 study

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 14:07

I think Brawn and Lotus said they may not even run Q3. It would be funny if all teams did this :lol:


Wouldn't it be better in Q3 to run atleast 1 lap on the mediums and get a representive time in?

#3964 mclarensmps

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 14:08

It was already too late when the suspension uprights were installed, and run upside down :lol:

*sigh*

#3965 rodlamas

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 14:12

Wouldn't it be better in Q3 to run atleast 1 lap on the mediums and get a representive time in?


They are way slower for one lap, and you take a lor of energy on a qual lap. Also, the grip out of the grid on new tires is way better than on used ones. So if you plan to start on mediums, it's better not to run on Q3.

#3966 charly0418

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 14:54

They are way slower for one lap, and you take a lor of energy on a qual lap. Also, the grip out of the grid on new tires is way better than on used ones. So if you plan to start on mediums, it's better not to run on Q3.


Yep, no point in doing a lap on the prime, the option tyre is way faster on 1 lap it seems

#3967 Grundle

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:02

Anyone know why McLaren run an asymmetric front wing?


#3968 ApexMouse

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:12

They dont?

#3969 Maustinsj

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:13

Anyone know why McLaren run an asymmetric front wing?


It matches the transparent bodywork :p

#3970 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:24

Wouldn't it be better in Q3 to run atleast 1 lap on the mediums and get a representive time in?

It would be if there's others on the mediums. If everybody else is on soft, there's no point as you'll be starting 10th no matter what.

#3971 femi

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:34

It would be if there's others on the mediums. If everybody else is on soft, there's no point as you'll be starting 10th no matter what.


If 8 out of the 10 leading cars after Q2 actually participates in Q3, will the 2 cars that sat it out be obliged to start the race on the tyres used in setting their fastest times in Q2 since the first 10 on the grid will have to start the race on such a tyre?

#3972 Grundle

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:36

They dont?

Look at Perez car in the garage fp2. If not asymmetric its a fantastic illusion.

#3973 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:36

If 8 out of the 10 leading cars after Q2 actually participates in Q3, will the 2 cars that sat it out be obliged to start the race on the tyres used in setting their fastest times in Q2 since the first 10 on the grid will have to start the race on such a tyre?

Nah, you only have to start the race on the tires you do your best time in Q3 with. If you dont do a time that session, you can use whatever you want.

#3974 charly0418

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 16:41

If 8 out of the 10 leading cars after Q2 actually participates in Q3, will the 2 cars that sat it out be obliged to start the race on the tyres used in setting their fastest times in Q2 since the first 10 on the grid will have to start the race on such a tyre?


No, if you sit out in Q3 you're free to start the race on whatever you want no matter what

#3975 BernieEc

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 17:14

Nah, you only have to start the race on the tires you do your best time in Q3 with. If you dont do a time that session, you can use whatever you want.

What if 2 drivers sit out Q3. How do they determine who starts 9th and 10th. Is it fom the Q2 time

#3976 Seanspeed

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 17:16

What if 2 drivers sit out Q3. How do they determine who starts 9th and 10th. Is it fom the Q2 time

Good question. I dont remember.

#3977 BigCHrome

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 17:20

What if 2 drivers sit out Q3. How do they determine who starts 9th and 10th. Is it fom the Q2 time


I believe it's whoever has done the fastest sector times in Q3, or if they don't go out at all - whoever has the higher number.

#3978 Spoch

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 17:57

Good question. I dont remember.

Car number

#3979 ZooL

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 18:45

The step is too small for 3 weeks break

Well the last race Button said he could have been on the podium, it's possible that this weekend he hasn't found the balance yet.

Nothing wrong with the car if you think you can get on the podium.

Button today: "I feel that we are getting the best out of the car every time we get out there"

Someone remind him that when he thinks the car is not good he never gets the best out of it...

Edited by ZooL, 12 April 2013 - 18:46.


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#3980 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 19:27

:rotfl: :rotfl: exactly their computers will tell them that given the variables 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 then NO. They then try to argue commen sense, and the computer gets upset,

Im still baffled by mclarens **** up i have to say, its incredible how they could end up in this situation, which they seem no closer solving. Why on earth just not raise the front a little, keep old frontsuspension and incorporate the changes at the rear, and they would be fighting at the front im sure, but once again risk management at mclaren, a joke


Its rally strange yes, but I say wait for the big upgrade in europe to see if this season is really over. Look at what Alonso managed to pull last year in that dog of a Ferrari.

#3981 bogi

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 19:31

Jenson Button Q&A: McLaren definitely moving forward

McLaren have endured a difficult start to the season, but arrived in Shanghai with several upgrades aimed at boosting the performance of their Mercedes-powered MP4-28. Jenson Button spoke to reporters after finishing in sixth position in each of the first two practice sessions in China...

Q: After a three-week break from racing, what expectations do you have for the race in China?
Jenson Button: During the first two races we were pretty happy with the performance of the car, especially in Melbourne - and temporarily also in Malaysia - although it is clear that we are still not quick enough. These three weeks since Malaysia have really been good for us to analyse the data that we have collected in the first two races. We are here with a few new parts that hopefully will help us, not only here but also for the development in the future. Looking back to Melbourne and Kuala Lumpur we’ve been three to four tenths off the quick cars, and I am pretty sure that we can pull that back in a few races. Regarding this weekend, I am very much looking forward to the race on Sunday, as the car was really good to drive in Malaysia, even if that didn’t completely show today. There should be warmer conditions tomorrow and on Sunday so that should play a bit to our advantage.

Q: Does the nature of the circuit give you hope that this weekend will be better? You've struggled over the bumps and this is not one of the bumpiest circuits…
JB: Yeah, although this circuit is generally quite smooth, there are still a few big bumps in the high-speed sectors and this is normally our issue. It sets it off and then it just doesn’t stop bouncing. But we will find out if we’ve got this problem under control or if it still continues. My personal feeling is that it will be a bit better, because of the aforementioned changes that we have made to the car in the past three weeks.

Q: So how was it today?
JB: We did a lot of set-up work on the front tyres. I think everybody is facing massive graining at the front. There is almost a one and a half second difference between the two compounds and I guess nobody was expecting that big gap. It is also a huge difference with the balance - it’s just like you’ve put the fronts on the rear and vice versa. If people complained about the tyres in Melbourne and Malaysia... I would say it is much more extreme here.

Q: There is still a lot of talk about team orders after what happened at the last race. Do you think McLaren gets that right? Do you know where you stand?
JB: Yes I know where I stand. We don’t have team orders. I've always had a good time with my team mates - especially with Lewis over the last couple of years - and that’s the way it should be. But yes, it’s a tricky matter. We all know that we should have a fair race, that we can do our own race, but we are also racing for a team and with the way the tyres are working now it is a great excuse to use the tyres. I have enjoyed working with the tyres so far this year. Of course there is a lot of degradation with the tyres and if you have two guys at the front who are fighting it out it’s possible that you lose the win. I'm guessing this was the reason for both teams.

Q: There is some friction at Red Bull after what had happened at the last race. Is that any help for their competitors like you?
JB: Well, it is interesting to witness what is going on there, but we are not in that battle at the moment. I don’t think that it is fully settled between Seb and Mark right now, but that’s my personal opinion.

Q: Can you talk about the new parts? Are they working and has their number increased because of the results you had in the first two races?
JB: You never bring new parts because you are panicking. You bring parts because you think it will make the car quicker. The new parts are here because we’ve understood where we are weak and where we need to improve. It was a busy morning implementing these parts and finding the right set-up for Saturday. Whether the parts really do what they’re supposed to do, we can’t really tell yet, but what I can tell is that we’re definitely moving forward. That we were so close to the front pace-wise in Malaysia had something to do with the fact that Lotus had a miserable weekend and that Fernando and the two Force Indias retired. So very likely we will see the reality on Sunday. Yes, we did have a long shot at a podium place in Malaysia, but I think it will be much more difficult here, even though we’ve made some improvements. From what we’ve seen, we’re doing something right. We always knew that the first few races of the season would be tough for us and it is good to know that we are able to improve even though the issues with the car are still pretty much the same overall. We have to sit down and see the data.

Q: How about the circuit and your driving style - do the two go together well?
JB: I was second here last year, but so much has changed from last season - there is a lot more competition for us out there right now. But I feel that we’ve been able to dig ourselves out of a pretty big hole and steadily move forward. The real sweet feeling will be when we start fighting for wins again! (laughs)


http://www.formula1....13/4/14442.html

#3982 Kimiraikkonen

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 22:32

Jenson Button Q&A: McLaren definitely moving forward


http://www.formula1....13/4/14442.html


This post sounds good.Its encouraging.

Im sure the car is better than in malaisia.There we had a very good race pace and only an Mistake in pits didn't allow to get a podium.

China is another smoother Tilke's track should be suit for the 28.

Upgrades working and the big one will be in Spain.

The car was a dog in Oz but ATM i think we can get Q3 easily and we have good chances to get some valuable points even like in Malaysia a podium.Damage limitation in this next two races will be important f
To mantain our chances to win this wdc.

I remember to all that the car was awfull in OZ.Today all is better.

Keep the Faith.

#3983 10e10

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 23:38

This post sounds good.Its encouraging.

Im sure the car is better than in malaisia.There we had a very good race pace and only an Mistake in pits didn't allow to get a podium.

China is another smoother Tilke's track should be suit for the 28.

Upgrades working and the big one will be in Spain.

The car was a dog in Oz but ATM i think we can get Q3 easily and we have good chances to get some valuable points even like in Malaysia a podium.Damage limitation in this next two races will be important f
To mantain our chances to win this wdc.

I remember to all that the car was awfull in OZ.Today all is better.

Keep the Faith.


Jenson Button admits McLaren's upgrades are no big step forward

Actually after reading what both drivers said, specially Perez with the "We have so many question marks, we have to analyse everything that we have done because we don't know which direction we are going. The car is so inconsistent for us.", makes me feel quite downbeat.

#3984 study

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 00:08

whats the point? A talk about the car mid march vs one mid April, the one today from the BBC is more relevant.

#3985 JaredS

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:49

Eeek this pull rod front suspension is a terrible decision by McLaren considering they know what their No.1 driver Jenson is like i.e he's so sensitive to the car and getting good performance out of him requires a well balanced car. Hence he will definitely want to adjust the setup to try and get this balance - read, potentially lots of setup changes. Something that a difficult to access pull rod front suspension is not conducive to effect changes quickly. What were they thinking!

#3986 JaredS

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:18

Even if they were only lacking downforce but had perfect suspension, balance, rear grip, front grip, no understeer, no oversteer, braking stability, traction and ride sorted then Button could get the best out of the car. So there's some hope yet.

#3987 BernieEc

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:21

Even if they were only lacking downforce but had perfect suspension, balance, rear grip, front grip, no understeer, no oversteer, braking stability, traction and ride sorted then Button could get the best out of the car. So there's some hope yet.


that would be "Some car"

#3988 charly0418

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 04:29

1,3 seconds behind. They keep improving but too slow. Looks like if the Barcelona upgrades arent considerable its goodbye season

#3989 damager21

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:03

1,3 seconds behind. They keep improving but too slow. Looks like if the Barcelona upgrades arent considerable its goodbye season


Pos Driver Team Time Gap Laps
1. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m35.391s 13
2. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m36.013s + 0.622s 11
3. Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1m36.065s + 0.674s 18
4. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m36.286s + 0.895s 17
5. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m36.420s + 1.029s 15
6. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m36.549s + 1.158s 16
7. Kimi Raikkonen Lotus-Renault 1m36.605s + 1.214s 16
8. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m36.693s + 1.302s 16

Agreed we are 1.3 sec off Alonso's time but is this a true indicator of McLaren's pace. I would look at the +ves, McLaren seems to be closer to both Lotus and Force India. Possibly in this race McLaren is 4th best team after Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull. Also, McLaren seems to be struggling with 1 lap pace but in race we are pretty close.

#3990 f1rules

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:46

I don't think I've been this downbeat about mclarens prospects in many many many years. They had an amazing car, and still choose to risk everything :rolleyes: The one advantage they had, they risk. Add to that, two average drivers and :| . Im sorry but turning things around mid season is just not good enough

Edited by f1rules, 13 April 2013 - 05:48.


#3991 JaredS

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:54

I think the car is quite obviously bad. It's clear from the onboard that it's having trouble over the bumps. Not that that's new to McLarens over the last few years. But whilst it's definitely not a great car, it's no secret either that Jenson by his own admission isn't able to extract the best out of himself and the car if he's not comfortable with it. The infamous "no balance". Checo is an unknown quantity but looking at how he's getting into trouble this race whilst not even coming close to Jenson's lap time indicates that he's even less of a reference of the car's potential than Jenson is.

#3992 stairpotato

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 05:55

I don't think I've been this downbeat about mclarens prospects in many many many years. They had an amazing car, and still choose to risk everything :rolleyes: The one advantage they had, they risk. Add to that, two average drivers and :| . Im sorry but turning things around mid season is just not good enough


{Inserts tongue in Cheek}

Wow - Button's average but pretty much pegged Hamilton over three seasons? Hamilton must be pretty average too...

...probably explains why Rosberg appears to be faster than him.


#3993 JaredS

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 06:03

It's interesting that they went all out throwing the kitchen sink into the pursuit of aero performance when this year, out of all those in recent times, aero performance is not as important. Getting these tyres to work, having an easily adjustable suspension, a softer ride is far more important than outright aero.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/106327

Boullier on Red Bull. "I can understand why they are not happy," said Boullier, when asked by AUTOSPORT about the complaints of his rival team.

"The way they designed the car is all based on the aero. This is why, when the tyres start to be an important part of the car and the car performance, they may struggle.

"They are fast on one lap but then struggle with tyre degradation, which is partially due to the way they designed the car."

However it seems that Red Bull are still very clever and expert at adapting to the situation and their fundamental mechanical package is still very, very good. So they can just as easily reduce downforce to keep the tyres in good shape over the race.

The Red Bull seems to have both supple suspension and great aero so best of both worlds. Lotus aero seems not as great but suspension fantastic. McLaren seem to have put the mechanical package aside to primarily focus on aero and now suffering for it.

#3994 Buttoneer

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:35

Hamilton = off topic.

Thanks.

#3995 Lights

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:41

Should be able to get Torro Rosso in the race but Lotus/Ferrari seem to be right on the pace here, compared to Malaysia, so it's going to be tough to challenge near the podium again. The Red Bull will fly by sooner or later as well.

#3996 chhatra

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:41

Definite step forward, JB was only 8 tenths off in q2. It seems the car is struggling with the slow long corners. Bahrain should be even better, smooth and more point and squirt.

If Jenson gets a good start, he should be leading when the others pit. I think top 5 is achievable proving the team don't mess up operationally.

#3997 DanardiF1

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:47

Definite step forward, JB was only 8 tenths off in q2. It seems the car is struggling with the slow long corners. Bahrain should be even better, smooth and more point and squirt.

If Jenson gets a good start, he should be leading when the others pit. I think top 5 is achievable proving the team don't mess up operationally.


The slow long corners here are also quite bumpy, which is affecting the McLaren quite a lot as Jenson has admitted. He did say they're working hard on it though so I've enough reason to be quite optimistic for both this race and the coming ones.

I think top 5 is the goal as well. The pace deficit is similar to Malaysia and Jenson had really good race pace comparatively there.

#3998 Lights

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:53

Definite step forward, JB was only 8 tenths off in q2. It seems the car is struggling with the slow long corners. Bahrain should be even better, smooth and more point and squirt.

If Jenson gets a good start, he should be leading when the others pit. I think top 5 is achievable proving the team don't mess up operationally.

This would be pretty crucial if he wants to make something of his race. It will be interesting to see how fast the softs go off.

Still means that both McLaren drivers will have to run the softs at some point however, which isn't a nice feeling because you just know the end of the race is going to be hard for them and most of the race they will appear to be in a better position than they actually are.

#3999 Mc_Silver

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 07:57

I think we have closed the gap to the front runners a little bit. Considering other cars also brought some significant upgrades to their cars, it is a good sign. I hope we can score some good points tomorrow. Finishing in top 5 would be welcome. Strategy and start of the race will be crucial.

We were 0.7 tenths of a second slower than the fastest car here whereas in Malaysia we were 1 second slower. I think Perez needs to close the gap to Button. He is 0.3-0.4 tenths behind him in qualifying. If we had fastest car it would not look that bad but we have to maximise results we can get.

Edited by Mc_Silver, 13 April 2013 - 08:03.


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#4000 Lights

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 08:05

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

Interestingly, topspeed-wise, McLaren is almost in Red Bull territory now. Which hasn't happened in like, years?