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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#751 ATM_Andy

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 06:28

Red Bull has changed alternator provider for this season, Magneti Marelli changes to TAG McLaren
@joseluisf1


Lots of teams use the MES (McLaren) Alternator


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#752 seahawk

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:05

There is an interesting interview in the Dailymail today with Lewis Hamilton,my apologies I dont know how to put up a link.
Its a facinating article where he talks about a wide range of stuff but there is a line that I found interesting,he said Vettel is able to drive over the astroturf and use a little more curb than is allowed,but he can get away with it.
I dont understand what Lewis is on about there,does he mean the RB9's downforce levels is so superior that Seb can make mistakes and get away with it?
Last season he said the something similar,Seb makes many mistakes during a lap but still gets the car on pole,is he refering to the same thing here?
P.s -If someone can put up the link it would be fantastic.Also,i am not having a go at Hamilton,on the contary i think this may provide some useful insight into the RB9.


If he says he uses more curb than allowed, it would mean the stewarts are favouring Vettel. If Lewis said Vettel uses more curb that the other drivers, than it might be something linked to the car or his driving. But in that case it would be hard to call this variations in the line faults, as what might be a fault in a Merc might be a perfectly fine line in the RBR dpeneding on how sensible the aero is on the different cars.

#753 Nigol

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 07:58

There is an interesting interview in the Dailymail today with Lewis Hamilton,my apologies I dont know how to put up a link.
Its a facinating article where he talks about a wide range of stuff but there is a line that I found interesting,he said Vettel is able to drive over the astroturf and use a little more curb than is allowed,but he can get away with it.
I dont understand what Lewis is on about there,does he mean the RB9's downforce levels is so superior that Seb can make mistakes and get away with it?
Last season he said the something similar,Seb makes many mistakes during a lap but still gets the car on pole,is he refering to the same thing here?
P.s -If someone can put up the link it would be fantastic.Also,i am not having a go at Hamilton,on the contary i think this may provide some useful insight into the RB9.


He refers to things like for example his India 2011 pole lap I think, where he cut the track, left the track with all four wheels. But nothing has happened.

Edited by Nigol, 07 May 2013 - 07:58.


#754 ZooL

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:19

Lots of teams use the MES (McLaren) Alternator

And another strategic advantage lost as your direct rival now also has a very reliable McLaren part.

Well done McLaren.

#755 Sakae

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 11:24

And another strategic advantage lost as your direct rival now also has a very reliable McLaren part.

Well done McLaren.

Lets hope it's more reliable than the other (also McLaren's) reliable part which is linked to KERS.

Edited by Sakae, 07 May 2013 - 14:12.


#756 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:16

Di Resta's tyres failure is a good news for Red Bull?

http://www.f1fanatic...latest-failure/

#757 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 02:30

FP1 was a complete washout, and Vettel did not achieve much in that practice session. He set the times on hard tyres 8mins before the session ended and managed a few decent laps on high fuel, amidst all the traffic. The track temperature was really low 18C-20C.

The track temperature in FP2 was 14C higher than at the end of FP1, and gradually decreased to 27-28C by 3.30pm local time. Vettel was impressive, but obviously needed more improvement in the final sector. His best time of 1:22.808 had the following sector time split - S1 - 23.0s; S2 30.9s; S3 28.8s. In comparison to his teammate, Webber had slower S1 and S2 times, but faster S3 time.

I am looking at a 2 stopper for the race. For the qualifying, I expect RBR to go for Hard for Q1, Medium for Q2 and 2 runs of Medium for Q3. Barring unexpected screw-ups, Vettel should be on the front row today.

#758 FPV GTHO

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 08:06

Vettel has traditionally struggled with the final chicane at tracks like Barcelona and Nurburgring, so no surprises there.

The rest of the track though is much more aero dominated so it could also be an indication of setup.

#759 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:02

Track temperature is currently 36C. That's 2C higher than FP2.

Any one of the drivers from RBR, Ferrari, Mercedes and Lotus could grab the pole position. Let's hope for another RBR's magic. :D

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#760 joshb

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 12:08

Vettel has traditionally struggled with the final chicane at tracks like Barcelona and Nurburgring, so no surprises there.

The rest of the track though is much more aero dominated so it could also be an indication of setup.


Yeah. Not sure how Mark Hughes thought S3 was Vettel territory. He's not bee that fast through there all weekend

#761 apoka

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 13:04

Wow, didn't expect the RB to be able to do a 1:21.0. Great damage limitation, but race will be tough for both drivers.

#762 joshb

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 13:05

Very happy for Seb, 3rd but what happened to Mark, thought he would give him a game round here but ends up half a second slower?

#763 Sakae

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 13:07

Sitting in pits until last dying minutes; at one point I thought they will not come out in Q3 at all.

#764 DKMoto

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 13:09

Great lap by Vettel, got most out of car and on clean side of grid for start tomorrow.

What happened with Webber, i thought this was "one of his tracks".

#765 encircled

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 13:12

This is a much better result than last year's stinker of qualifying so very happy for Seb. But that Mercedes is MIGHTY in S3, and they might just pull away even with the DRS enabled.

#766 plumtree

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 13:12

Judging by Horner's comment after FP3 ("Qualifying well here is always important, but so long as you're on the first three rows, it'll be OK especially the way the tyres are working.") they didn't seem to expect a pole. At one point the 2nd row looked difficult to make.

Having said that, Horner: "We're very strong in the third sector, we need to find a bit of pace in the first so there's still a bit of work to do before now and qualifying." They were good but Mercs were mega in S3. In that sector alone 2-3 tenths faster than the 2nd best.

http://www.formula1....98/results.html

The gap in S3 was even bigger than I thought. :eek:
1 Nico Rosberg 27.738 (-0.359)
2 Lewis Hamilton 27.795 (-0.302)
3 Sebastian Vettel 28.097

Speed Trap
1 Fernando Alonso 318.5
2 Daniel Ricciardo 317.3
3 Sergio Perez 317.0
11 Kimi Räikkönen 313.1
12 Lewis Hamilton 312.6
20 Sebastian Vettel 306.2
21 Nico Hulkenberg 306.1
22 Mark Webber 305.7

Edited by plumtree, 11 May 2013 - 14:08.


#767 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 13:58

Yeah. Not sure how Mark Hughes thought S3 was Vettel territory. He's not bee that fast through there all weekend

Quite simple why Mark Hughes thought that S3 was Vettel/RBR territory. The final sector is all downforce, and RBR is considered by most F1 pundits as the car with the most downforce in F1.

As Vettel stated in the PC, he was happy with the way he tackled S3 on his only run in Q3. That was by far his best S3 time - 28.097s. Of course, it was still a long way from the time posted by Rosberg (27.738s) or Hamilton (27.863s). P3 was the best grid position that Vettel could have achieved today given the raw qualifying speed of the 2 Mercedes.

Horner stated earlier that he believed RBR will have to do the same number of stops as Bahrain GP. The fact that they ran options in Q1 means that Vettel and Webber will be 3-stopping tomorrow.

66 laps tomorrow - I reckon the 1st stop will be 9th lap, 2nd stop 28th lap and 3rd stop 47th lap.


#768 encircled

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 14:03

It will be ideal to pull away from Alonso though, as the RBR are 12 km/h down on him and we all know how quick starting the Ferrari is.

Speed trap

Pos 	No 	Driver 	Time of Day 	Speed
1 	3 	Fernando Alonso 	14:33:38 	318.5
20 	1 	Sebastian Vettel 	14:39:10 	306.2
22 	2 	Mark Webber 	14:32:34 	305.7


#769 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 14:34

This is a much better result than last year's stinker of qualifying so very happy for Seb. But that Mercedes is MIGHTY in S3, and they might just pull away even with the DRS enabled.

This is a tough circuit to overtake, but according to Vettel, it may be possible to overtake this year outside of the DRS zones.

“For turn nine and ten I think it definitely helps,” said Vettel about the second DRS zone. “I think in the race it will be possible to overtake not only on the straights and not only on the two straights where we have DRS.”

“Especially when we, similar to last races, we struggle with tyres, etc…, I think we will find more than one or two places on the track to pass.”

“If you have DRS available there it can only help but surely if you look for one lap on fresh tyres it’s not going to be easy because turn nine is quite fast, so it’s difficult to follow as usual.”

The 2 Mercedes are only 6kph faster than Vettel. They may still be vulnerable to DRS and KERS attack on the main straight. Taking on the Ferraris with their 12kph speed advantage is another story, though. :)



#770 encircled

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 14:37

Yeah I think there is an opportunity to pass the Mercedes, but hopefully it will be done quickly, don't want that Ferrari to be lurking behind with that straight line top speed advantage.

#771 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 14:43

I want Seb to hit at least 44 poles this year, so Red Bull DO SOMETHING!!! With yer wings and all. With Mercs dominance in small, twisty stuff we are in for an ass whooping at Monaco.

Anyway, heres to a great race tomorrow!! :up:

#772 sosidge

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 14:44

The time in sector 3 is all about hustling it through the last Mickey Mouse chicane - Vettel has never been good through there, hence Webber's reputation as a Barcelona master (actually he's only good at hustling it through the last chicane, the timesheets today show that what he gains through there is now much less than what he loses through the first two sectors, a few seasons ago his raw qualifying pace was only a couple of tenths off Vettel so Barcelona would flatter him, now his raw qualy pace is more like 0.5s off and no single corner can make up for it).

Will be interesting to see how the race develops - I doubt Mercedes will have the tyre performance to capitalise on their track position, but there is a fast Lotus and Ferrari right behind SV so it should be a good battle. I wouldn't be surprised is SV starts aggressively again to try and jump the Mercedes before the DRS window opens, sprint as clear as he can, and get onto the preferred primes early.

#773 kenkip

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 14:51

I want Seb to hit at least 44 poles this year, so Red Bull DO SOMETHING!!! With yer wings and all. With Mercs dominance in small, twisty stuff we are in for an ass whooping at Monaco.

Anyway, heres to a great race tomorrow!! :up:

I think I rather something like 35 wins!
Great effort in qualy today, challenging the Mercs was going to be hard and Seb did his best I guess!
What happened to Mark?Did he have a mistake?Half a second down on Seb in a track he loves is wierd no?

#774 plumtree

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 16:57

Sebastian Vettel (3rd, Q3 - 1m 21.054s)
“I was pretty happy with the last sector, as historically it’s been a bit weak for me. Now finally, after the last couple of years, I understand the last few corners a little better. I’m quite happy as yesterday and this morning I wasn’t too comfortable, particularly in the last sector, but we improved the car. We had a pretty smooth qualifying session, we took a slightly different approach to some others using option tyres only - whether that helps us tomorrow we‘ll have to wait and see, but it will be an interesting race and a lot will be about tyre degradation. It’s good to start a little bit higher up, so let’s see what we can do tomorrow.”

Mark Webber (8th, Q3 - 1m 21.570s)
“Qualifying went well today apart from Q3. I was disappointed with the lap in Q3 and lost a lot of time in the last sector; I’m normally quite strong there, but I was in trouble with the rears. It’s a sensitive game these days and you need to get everything lined up. So, in the end I’m disappointed with the last lap, but everything else I was happy with. It will be an interesting race tomorrow.”
(A bit longer explanation. Tyres went off in sector three - Webber "The last sector had been strong for me yesterday, this morning and in Q2, but I lost the rear tyres in Q3. I had no rear tyres left, which we did not expect to happen, and I bled a lot of lap time from turn nine to the start finish." / "We saw it in winter testing too that it's very easy to be on or off and normally it's a part of the track I look forward to and gain time on other people, but it wasn't possible in Q3.")

Christian Horner, Red Bull team principal
“A very interesting qualifying. Sebastian put in a phenomenal lap at the end of Q3 to line up third on the grid, which was beyond what we expected after Q1 and Q2. With the two Mercedes ahead of us and Kimi and Fernando behind it makes a fascinating grid for tomorrow’s race. For Mark, having looked competitive in Q1 and Q2, unfortunately his lap in Q3 was just that little bit off and, on such a close grid, the differences are marginal. Hopefully both drivers can have very strong races from their grid positions tomorrow.”


Horner stated earlier that he believed RBR will have to do the same number of stops as Bahrain GP. The fact that they ran options in Q1 means that Vettel and Webber will be 3-stopping tomorrow.

66 laps tomorrow - I reckon the 1st stop will be 9th lap, 2nd stop 28th lap and 3rd stop 47th lap.

Vettel says if anyone does only two pit-stops in the Spanish Grand Prix he will "eat a broom" (on Youtube) Someone do it!

Edited by plumtree, 11 May 2013 - 16:59.


#775 encircled

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 17:01

Vettel says if anyone does only two pit-stops in the Spanish Grand Prix he will "eat a broom" (on Youtube) Someone do it!

Uh-oh. :D

#776 V3TT3L

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 17:04

Sky Sports F1 ‏@SkySportsF1 1m
Sebastian Vettel vows "to eat my hat" if any car only stops twice during Spanish GP http://bit.ly/YMVcAy

#777 Sakae

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 17:08

Hmm, low expectations from Horner this weekend; I wonder how many more tracks he is expecting the same.

#778 EvanRainer

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 18:14

I'm not gonna lie, Massa's penalty feels great. One less Ferrari to worry about in the start.

Regarding the the number of pitstops and especially when they will happen I think it will depend a lot on how the race unfolds (i.e. what position they are in after the start)

#779 apoka

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 20:29

Sky Sports F1 ‏@SkySportsF1 1m
Sebastian Vettel vows "to eat my hat" if any car only stops twice during Spanish GP http://bit.ly/YMVcAy

Maybe he tries to trick Lotus and Ferrari into using a suboptimal strategy. :p As always, I hope for different strategies in the race - likely 3 and 4 stoppers. Different strategies always create more interesting final laps.

My expectations for the race were quite low, but after P3 in Q, Vettel should be in the mix. Webber from P7 can also do something if he has a reasonable start.


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#780 John Player

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 01:09

So whats the secret to the final sector Vettel said he learned this year?

#781 Kelateboy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 04:28

Pirelli ideal strategy for the race - 1st pitstop on lap 16 (M), 2nd pitstop on lap 33 (M) and final pitstop on lap 50 (H). That is 3 stints on medium and the last stint on hard. Completely opposite to what RBR would attempt to do - 3 stints on brand new hards and the initial stint on medium just like Bahrain.

#782 Kelateboy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 05:14

Wow, didn't expect the RB to be able to do a 1:21.0. Great damage limitation, but race will be tough for both drivers.

I beg to differ. I don't think I would consider this weekend as a damage limitation exercise for Vettel. Probably for Webber as he had a horrondous 3rd sector in Q3 yesterday, but Vettel had an absolute stonker of a lap and finished as high up as he possibly could ahead of his main title contenders. The 2 Mercedes were in the league of their own over a single lap.

Compared to last year, this year's GP is looking like a marked improvement for Vettel and RBR. Last year, Vettel did not even attempt a qualifying lap in Q3. He had a drive through penalty for failing to slow down during a yellow-flag. He had his damaged front wing changed. Despite all these issues, he still managed to finish 6th after overtaking Rosberg, Hamilton and Button late in the race.

If Vettel did not get into a 1st corner incident today, he should be on the podium comfortably. He has 3 brand new hards remaining for the race, and the 2 Mercedes are expected to fall behind during the race due to tyres issues. I am not surprised if he gets on top of the podium - the key is to stay away from all the shenanigan at the start.

#783 Cavani

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:55

it is too much for a driver of webber's calibre to be outqualified by teammate 5 times in a row and by no small margins

#784 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:58

it is too much for a driver of webber's calibre to be outqualified by teammate 5 times in a row and by no small margins


Indeed, i think he has normally got 1 over on Vettel on qualifying by this stage of the season. He was very far behind Vettel yesterday on a track where he normally goes well. If he doesn't outqualify him in Silverstone/Nurburgring, Vettel may win the qualifying battle 19-0.

#785 alfa1

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:02

So whats the secret to the final sector Vettel said he learned this year?



Yeah, I was wondering that myself.
Somebody is going to have to put together a comparison video of FP2 and Qual.


#786 Kelateboy

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 11:26

Indeed, i think he has normally got 1 over on Vettel on qualifying by this stage of the season. He was very far behind Vettel yesterday on a track where he normally goes well. If he doesn't outqualify him in Silverstone/Nurburgring, Vettel may win the qualifying battle 19-0.

19-0 against Webber? Not going to happen, not in this super-competitive era of Formula 1. Sooner or later, Webber is going to get his acts together, and Vettel might experience a bump or two like he did in China with the brake pedal.

#787 joshb

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:12

Indeed, i think he has normally got 1 over on Vettel on qualifying by this stage of the season. He was very far behind Vettel yesterday on a track where he normally goes well. If he doesn't outqualify him in Silverstone/Nurburgring, Vettel may win the qualifying battle 19-0.


He'll get him at Monaco

As for today, really don't know what happened. It seemed they tried to try a 3 stop but quickly realized it wouldn't work. Webber got the timing of his 4 stops OK, though his first stop was early and the next 3 were maybe a touch early. Seb went for 3 stops before bailing out and 3 of his 4 stops were quite late compared to the ideal time.

Seb seemed especially cautious through T3 (dropping heaps in S1 all day) but, unlike Ferrari, he got big points on a difficult day.

#788 Sakae

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:13

Sebastian Vettel - 40 sec off pace.

Weekend to learn from, but to forget ASAP.

#789 sosidge

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 14:16

The car was a lot slower than I expected today. What looked like an aborted attempt at a 3-stopper probably didn't help, but the margin to Massa was still huge at the chequered flag and hadn't looked like getting any smaller over the last stints.

#790 zapppa83

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:23

Vettel: tyres only reason for defeat

He was slower with fresh tyres too..good to see him crying...

#791 fabr68

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:27

Vettel: tyres only reason for defeat

He was slower with fresh tyres too..good to see him crying...


Yes. The tires are the reason for his defeat. Specially the tires as managed by Alonso, Raikkonen and Massa

#792 Zava

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:31

I'm not too worried. ever since pirelli came in, they are slow here in race pace, because it is a tyre eating track. unlike some of the upcoming tracks, where Vettel needs to show ferrari its place. :smoking:

#793 gillesthegenius

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:32

Vettel: tyres only reason for defeat

He was slower with fresh tyres too..good to see him crying...


Crying while leading the championship in a car that is clearly inferior to two others. :cool:

#794 plumtree

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:51

It was baffling why they didn't switch to 4-stop earlier. Already during the last few laps before the 2nd stop it was quite clear that 3 stop strategy was never going to work. Then again considering the huge gap to Massa and respective lap times of the two in the last two stint, it wouldn't have made much difference. No doubt they've got a lot of work to do though.

"No reason to have the team down, chin up" Yes, that's the spirit. :up:

#795 zapppa83

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 15:59

Yes. The tires are the reason for his defeat. Specially the tires as managed by Alonso, Raikkonen and Massa

It's like to say RB last years won only thanks EBD

#796 plumtree

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:16

Sebastian Vettel (4th)
I won't talk about frustration; we still finished fourth and got some good points. Surely we wanted more but today we just didn't have the tyres to fight with the guys in front. The start was good and the beginning of the race didn't look too bad but then I think we tried to hold on to the three stop a little bit too much and had to admit towards the end that we won't make it. / So I think after all we can be happy with fourth. Surely there is a little bit more - not pace - but there is a little bit more we need to do looking after the tyres. / I think our car is quick enough to match them any day, but if you talk about a race distance and especially on these tyres it's a different game. ... but there are a couple of teams that keep doing a better job when it's about the tyres.

Mark Webber (5th)
“We were struggling for the range and a bit of pace today, to be honest. The Ferraris and the Lotus were in a bit of a different league and that made it hard for us to compete today. I think we got the most out of what we had, particularly as by the first corner I was probably 14th or 15th, so to come back with that result was pretty good. We managed to get back in to the scheme of things, but we were always a little bit on the back foot in terms of tyre wear and ultimately pace. If you don’t have the pace, then you can’t have the magic strategy. I was happy with how I drove and we got some points, but it wasn’t the result we wanted.”

Christian Horner, Red Bull team principal
“A tough race. Fourth and fifth places obviously weren’t the target going into the race, but the way it panned out it was obvious that tyre degradation was going to be a key factor. We didn’t quite have the pace today but we still managed to score some strong points. We made four pit-stops with both cars, saw some great work in the pit lane and recorded a succession of very fast stops. It was a good recovery after a difficult first lap for Mark.”

#797 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:36

Crying while leading the championship in a car that is clearly inferior to two others. :cool:


1. Red Bull - 131 points
2. Ferrari - 117 points
3. Lotus - 111 points




#798 gillesthegenius

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:52

1. Red Bull - 131 points
2. Ferrari - 117 points
3. Lotus - 111 points


I can also throw numbers at you.
For instance...
Massa 45
Webber 42

What those numbers don't tell you though, is how Ferrari and Alonso threw away 30-40 points with errors in Malaysia and Bahrain.

:D

#799 encircled

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:57

Damage limitation mode today in the race. Thanks to Grosjean's DNF, RBR are 4th and 5th which is the maximum possible today seeing the circumstances.

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#800 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 16:59

I can also throw numbers at you.
For instance...
Massa 45
Webber 42

What those numbers don't tell you though, is how Ferrari and Alonso threw away 30-40 points with errors in Malaysia and Bahrain.

:D


And if you correct the Malaysia result:

Webber 49
Massa 45

Though you're missing the point.

Vettel was complaining about the tyres on an occassion he didn't win. However, i don't remember him or Horner complaining about the tyres in Istanbul 2011, which was also a 4 stop race.