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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#851 Gintonious

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:49

Vettel stopped 4 times in 2011 and won, nothing was said.

Vettel stopped 4 times in 2013 and placed 4th, end of racing.

Am I missing something?

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#852 plumtree

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:57

Vettel stopped 4 times in 2011 and won, nothing was said.

Vettel stopped 4 times in 2013 and placed 4th, end of racing.

Am I missing something?

He wasn't managing his tyres from start to finish in 2011 the way he had to this year.

When RBR complained about tyres after Australian GP, they said 'You are doing it because you are not winning.'
When RBR complained about tyres after Malaysian GP and again after Bahrain GP, they said 'What's wrong with you? You are winning and still complaining? How greedy are you?


Also I think it's really disingenuous of Hembery to bring up 'Red Bull - dominant' line every time people complain about their tyres. He knows people dislike Red Bull winning so much and such argument would work like a charm. Preventing a certain team from winning should never have been Pirelli's concern. It's absurd that the sole tyre supplier think they have the right to affect race results.

Edited by plumtree, 14 May 2013 - 13:16.


#853 EvanRainer

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 12:58

This has already been answered.

Was he tip toeing around AND 4 stopping?

#854 goingthedistance

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 13:04

That's the thing, the Red Bull guys have said to run at full pace they would have legitimately had to pit something like 10 times. That's crazy. It's okay to be conserving the tyres for some laps, but not the whole race.

#855 EvanRainer

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 13:10

That's the thing, the Red Bull guys have said to run at full pace they would have legitimately had to pit something like 10 times. That's crazy. It's okay to be conserving the tyres for some laps, but not the whole race.


Exactly. I don't mind if Ferrari wins the title JUST because they are easier on the tyres. Say because they can do one pitstop less. Good on them. But this has gone way too far.

#856 Kelateboy

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 14:29

There are 2 issues here - tyres structures and tyres compounds. Pirelli has made the announcement on the former, but yet to decide on the later. I believe the compound changes are a much bigger issue.

Pirelli has stated that they will change the tyres structure starting with Canadian GP. In the Autosport's article, Hembery said :-

"We will be taking some of the design of the 2013 tyres, but also some of the elements of the 2011 and 2012 products that served us so well during that period."

In the Skysport article, Hembery was quoted to have said :-

"The tyre from Canada onwards will combine elements of the structure from last year, with some elements of this year's tyre"

So, which is which? Is Pirelli incorporating structural elements from 2011 - 2013 or 2012 - 2013 on their new revised tyres for Canada?


#857 encircled

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 14:50

From PH twitter

#858 redbull1654

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 17:49

Great news! :up: :up: :up: :up: So it seems that Pirelli have finally given in to the pressure :p;)

:up: :yawnface:
I am happy about that,the FIA and Pirelli were really trying to stop red bull,banning EBD and this thinks that were really mastered by red bull and also mclaren were really good at that.
But still red bull manage to be still at the top in the end.I would really like a 1-2 for red bull in Monaco...

Edited by redbull1654, 14 May 2013 - 17:50.


#859 redbull1654

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 18:10

plenty. Silverstone, Suzuka, Spa, Interlagos and Hungaroring for sure.

Montreal, Singapore, Abu Dhabi and Monaco are definitely rear limited.

I think the rest are mostly typical Tilke tracks which have a mix of front limiting and rear limiting corners.


Sorry but Spa,Suzuka,Silversone,Hungaroring are not really that much front limited.Remember this are the tracks that are red bull really good on.This 3 circuits are really good for us.
So what about India,Abu dhabi,Korea,Singapur...
Kingshark:Haha and yet they are still leading both championships,so red bull is the best car this season by now,following by ferrari.Just they cant bring the max performance out of it.

Edited by redbull1654, 14 May 2013 - 18:31.


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#860 Kingshark

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 18:27

As I have said before, Mercedes understand that they evolve around the sport. That's why they are taking the blame for the tyre issue and trying hard to fix it.

Red Bull think that the sport evolves around them. They blame Pirelli for the tyres, even though Ferrari have the exact same tyres and were about 40 seconds quicker in Spain.

If Red Bull spend as much time trying to fix the problem as they do crying, then maybe they would be as good as Ferrari by now.

#861 apoka

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 18:48

As I have said before, Mercedes understand that they evolve around the sport. That's why they are taking the blame for the tyre issue and trying hard to fix it.

Red Bull think that the sport evolves around them. They blame Pirelli for the tyres, even though Ferrari have the exact same tyres and were about 40 seconds quicker in Spain.

If Red Bull spend as much time trying to fix the problem as they do crying, then maybe they would be as good as Ferrari by now.

RB is still the 2nd/3rd fastest car out there and had a decent amount of upgrades, so blaming them that they do not focus and try to fix the issues is borderline ridiculous to be honest.

Also, you try to artificially separate RB and Merc, but both criticized the tyres (rightfully in my opinion).

Edited by apoka, 14 May 2013 - 19:32.


#862 redbull1654

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:02

RB the 3rd fastest car??? Hm the championship table doesnt look like that.So it was red bull with vettel who did beat Lotus and Ferrari in first 5 races who are the faster cars as the RB9? :wave:
If it is like this so i need to really praise the red bull team,and of course mark and vettel.Ok so the last year poor slow ferrari is this years red bull".Ferrari should be leading the both championship by a margin,and they are giving away the fastest car... :drunk:
Ferrari might be just the mclaren in 2012 when they had the fastest car but didnt take the max out of races. :wave:
Go red bull go vettel go mark!

Edited by redbull1654, 14 May 2013 - 19:06.


#863 plumtree

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:06

I think it's too early to feel optimistic, I'm actually far from it. I thought the new hard tyres would improve the situation a bit but they seem just as bad if not worse. No one can predict how the new tyres will behave (there seems to be always some surprises with Pirelli) and whose cars respond to them better. Things might remain just the same.

Having said that, it was nice to see Pirelli acknowledged that there was misjudgment on their part, albeit only grudgingly. Hopefully with the change, we won't see drivers being told to slow down constantly or having to let direct competitors through to save tyres, etc.. I won't hold my breath though.

#864 ApexMouse

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:29

RB the 3rd fastest car??? Hm the championship table doesnt look like that.So it was red bull with vettel who did beat Lotus and Ferrari in first 5 races who are the faster cars as the RB9? :wave:
If it is like this so i need to really praise the red bull team,and of course mark and vettel.Ok so the last year poor slow ferrari is this years red bull".Ferrari should be leading the both championship by a margin,and they are giving away the fastest car... :drunk:
Ferrari might be just the mclaren in 2012 when they had the fastest car but didnt take the max out of races. :wave:
Go red bull go vettel go mark!


Please add more smileys. They makes your extremely well written and worthwhile opinions so much more readable and mature. We all hope to see more in the future.

Edited by ApexMouse, 14 May 2013 - 19:29.


#865 Kingshark

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:37

I was about to ask how committed the 'Drinks Company' actually is to F1. As soon as they don't win every single race and start on pole position they start crying for changes.

They even had the opportunity to test the tyres in Brazil and again during the pre-season. If Newey really is that good he would have come up with a solution by now, you would think...

I know right? Thankfully this team is nothing but a marketing tool and will leave F1 as soon as they stop winning.

#866 redbull1654

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:44

I know right? Thankfully this team is nothing but a marketing tool and will leave F1 as soon as they stop winning.

That"s just bacause you are really scared of strong competition.At the end of 2008 the red bull team was nothing,and then out of nowhere they get 6 titles,with vettel being the the youngest driver to ever score a point,to win a race,youngest triple world champion and many more.
I know that this is really Ferrari vs Red bull bacause you ferrari fans are really tired of vettel winning and thats why you point that out. :wave:
Ok we end this now...

#867 Kingshark

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:48

That"s just bacause you are really scared of strong competition.At the end of 2008 the red bull team was nothing,and then out of nowhere they get 6 titles,with vettel being the the youngest driver to ever score a point,to win a race,youngest triple world champion and many more.
I know that this is really Ferrari vs Red bull bacause you ferrari fans are really tired of vettel winning and thats why you point that out. :wave:
Ok we end this now...

Good for you, you've won 6 world titles. Now you only need 25 more championships to match Ferrari and our resume of 31 titles, good luck with that.

Red Bull wont even last 25 years in F1 with the sort of behavior they are showing. They believe F1 evolves around them. Our car eats tyres? Let's whine about the tyres instead of actually trying to fix the problem. What if we don't get our way? Threaten Bernie to quit the sport. Nice...

Edited by Kingshark, 14 May 2013 - 19:49.


#868 redbull1654

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:52

Good for you, you've won 6 world titles. Now you only need 25 more championships to match Ferrari and our resume of 31 titles, good luck with that.

Red Bull wont even last 25 years in F1 with the sort of behavior they are showing. They believe F1 evolves around them. Our car eats tyres? Let's whine about the tyres instead of actually trying to fix the problem. What if we don't get our way? Threaten Bernie to quit the sport. Nice...

You are missing the point here,i wasnt comparing red bull and ferrari.Before i started to become a red bull and vettel fan I was a mclaren fan.In 2004/2005 I was even cheering for alonso and renault and I know now that back then I should be cheering for Kimi.
I still think that without Mclaren problems in 2005,Kimi would be now a double champion and alonso just one time world champion,take that... :kiss:

Edited by redbull1654, 14 May 2013 - 19:53.


#869 Kingshark

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 19:56

I still think that without Mclaren problems in 2005,Kimi would be now a double champion and alonso just one time world champion,take that... :kiss:

Raikkonen was driving a faster car.

Why are you even bringing that into this thread anyway? This is about Red Bull. Fact of the matter is, they are hypocrites. They aren't going to last long with the behavior they are showing.

Though a part of me is happy about this tyre change. You claim that Red Bull produce about 150,000,000 tonnes of downforce. Well, let's see how right you are. :rolleyes:

Edited by Kingshark, 14 May 2013 - 19:57.


#870 redbull1654

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 20:01

Raikkonen was driving a faster car.

Why are you even bringing that into this thread anyway? This is about Red Bull. Fact of the matter is, they are hypocrites. They aren't going to last long with the behavior they are showing.

Though a part of me is happy about this tyre change. You claim that Red Bull produce about 150,000,000 tonnes of downforce. Well, let's see how right you are. :rolleyes:

I agree with that but still by the other hand red bull is having more downforce then any other team for 3 years.The only team who could get this amount of downforce was mclaren.
Why red bull are not running less downforce in some tracks to get more top speed in high speed circuits that"s the question.They should try that,so less downforce can even bring that they will started to be easier on tyres and still winning who knows.

Edited by redbull1654, 14 May 2013 - 20:04.


#871 ApexMouse

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 20:16

I bet newey and 400 Engineers haven't thought of that one!

#872 Kelateboy

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:50

Let's wait for further news from Pirelli. We have structural changes on the tyres themselves, but we have got no confirmation of the tweak on the compound for more durable rubber. This is a much bigger issue.

As AutoSport reported in its article further meetings are also taking place at its Milan headquarters this week to evaluate whether or not further compound tweaks will be needed.

#873 OneAndOnly

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:37

Thing is that RBR is probably able to fix the problem and make their car use these tires much better (like Lotus or Ferrari), but it takes some time, and by that time Alonso and Kimi would probably have 50+ pts more than Vettel. That's the only reason they are whining so much. As I said during 2011. exhaust/engine maps saga, changing something that is same for everyone during season is bad for the sport, and costs everyone. Every serious company will think twice before entering the sport, either as manufacturer or sponsor. RBR might think they won this round, but ultimately this depreciated entire sport, and in the long run they are all loosing.

Edited by OneAndOnly, 15 May 2013 - 06:38.


#874 Kelateboy

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:30

Thing is that RBR is probably able to fix the problem and make their car use these tires much better (like Lotus or Ferrari), but it takes some time, and by that time Alonso and Kimi would probably have 50+ pts more than Vettel. That's the only reason they are whining so much. As I said during 2011. exhaust/engine maps saga, changing something that is same for everyone during season is bad for the sport, and costs everyone. Every serious company will think twice before entering the sport, either as manufacturer or sponsor. RBR might think they won this round, but ultimately this depreciated entire sport, and in the long run they are all loosing.

These are tweets from Paul Hambery after the Spanish GP, which are self-explanatory and should answer some of the nagging issues :-

We aim for 2-3 pit stops. Today was too many, we got it wrong, too aggressive. We will make changes, probably from Silverstone.
7:30 AM - 12 May 13

It is not always easy, cars develop, we cannot test with current cars, no in season testing either.
7:39 AM - 12 May 13

We were asked to replicate Canada 2010, and aim for 2-3 stops.
7:45 AM - 12 May 13

From Canada changes to be made to bring back 2 to 3 stops. Some structural changes combining elements 2012 and 2013 products.
3:10 AM - 14 May 13

changes made in interests of sport
3:12 AM - 14 May 13

#875 Cool Beans

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:55

Red Bull wont even last 25 years in F1 with the sort of behavior they are showing. They believe F1 evolves around them. Our car eats tyres? Let's whine about the tyres instead of actually trying to fix the problem. What if we don't get our way? Threaten Bernie to quit the sport. Nice...

I don't like the way the change in tyres has been brought in but come on... unless you've been following F1 for a mere few years that's the most ironic thing a Ferrari fan could say. Whining about tyres and forcing Michelin to change theirs in the middle of the season, then threatening Bernie with leaving F1 and starting their own racing series; both things Ferrari did just a few short years ago  ;)

#876 EvanRainer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:00

Thing is that RBR is probably able to fix the problem and make their car use these tires much better (like Lotus or Ferrari), but it takes some time, and by that time Alonso and Kimi would probably have 50+ pts more than Vettel. That's the only reason they are whining so much. As I said during 2011. exhaust/engine maps saga, changing something that is same for everyone during season is bad for the sport, and costs everyone. Every serious company will think twice before entering the sport, either as manufacturer or sponsor. RBR might think they won this round, but ultimately this depreciated entire sport, and in the long run they are all loosing.


Yes changes mid season suck and we all agree.

But how is it fair that Pirelli changed the tyres from last year just because they suited Red Bull more and not Ferrari or Lotus or whatever? Why couldn't Ferrari and Lotus just "dealt" with that?. PH pretty much ADMITTED to that just like he has admitted the tyres as they are right now are NOT how they are meant to be.

I understand how you see this as an advantage unfairly being taken away from Ferrari, but to me it's taking away an advantage that was unfairly (and erroneously since going by PH's own words the tyres are faulty) given in the first place.

#877 OneAndOnly

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:25

Yes changes mid season suck and we all agree.

But how is it fair that Pirelli changed the tyres from last year just because they suited Red Bull more and not Ferrari or Lotus or whatever? Why couldn't Ferrari and Lotus just "dealt" with that?. PH pretty much ADMITTED to that just like he has admitted the tyres as they are right now are NOT how they are meant to be.

I understand how you see this as an advantage unfairly being taken away from Ferrari, but to me it's taking away an advantage that was unfairly (and erroneously since going by PH's own words the tyres are faulty) given in the first place.

FIA/Bernie/God asked Pirelli for changes in 2013., not Ferrari nor Lotus.

#878 EvanRainer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:44

FIA/Bernie/God asked Pirelli for changes in 2013., not Ferrari nor Lotus.


I don't disagree. As I've said plenty of times the last couple of days, this is Pirelli's mess. I'm just saying we can't say it's unfair now because if Pirelli hadn't screwed things up with their winter changes, we wouldn't be having this situation in the first place.

#879 Sakae

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 12:23

Is this for real, or gaps between races are just too long?

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#880 MikeV1987

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 12:30

Good for you, you've won 6 world titles. Now you only need 25 more championships to match Ferrari and our resume of 31 titles, good luck with that.

Red Bull wont even last 25 years in F1 with the sort of behavior they are showing. They believe F1 evolves around them. Our car eats tyres? Let's whine about the tyres instead of actually trying to fix the problem. What if we don't get our way? Threaten Bernie to quit the sport. Nice...


Or they can be like Ferrari and whine about aero and testing, and then threaten to leave the sport. I think you are over reacting to the situation tbh, it doesn't sound like anything more than bitterness.

Edited by MikeV1987, 16 May 2013 - 12:36.


#881 EvanRainer

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 12:39

Is this for real, or gaps between races are just too long?


Haha, silly rumors:)



That said, I personally have never doubted it has always been an ultimate dream goal of Merc's to get Vettel and create the "ultimate German squad" kind of thing. I could easily see them making an attempt to recruit him 2-3 years from now.

But we're going a bit off topic:)

#882 MikeV1987

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 12:40

Is this for real, or gaps between races are just too long?


I thought Lauda has been chasing Vettel around for quite a while now, still funny though.

Edited by MikeV1987, 16 May 2013 - 12:41.


#883 Kelateboy

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 14:50

So we still have not got any news whether there will be tweaks to the tyres compounds for future races. Gary Anderson predicted that the front tyres will remain 2013 specs while Pirelli will revise the rear tyres to 2012 specs.

#884 SophieB

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 07:49

Posts deleted.

Folks, a reminder that this is a thread to share your news and thoughts about the RB9 - please don't get distracted into discussing Alonso, Vettel or the 2013 tyre situation in general. Speculating how the new tyres will affect the RB9 is fine.

#885 encircled

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:14

Posted Image

taken from f1 fen.

#886 Afterburner

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 14:43

http://f1.f-e-n.net/..._F1_Grand_P.jpg

taken from f1 fen.

:up:

Gotta love Monaco.

#887 plumtree

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 16:00

https://twitter.com/...919726288257024
Tobias Grüner "Infiniti will pay Renault engine bill 2014 for Red Bull. Gets right to rename it Infiniti V6. Team called Red Bull-Infiniti."

Color me surprised. Despite the constant speculation, I didn't see that one coming.

#888 onewingedangel

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 16:12

If it's not called a Renault, how much extra would Renault charge for the engine?

Alain Prost said RenaultSportF1 has a €150 annual budget, so even if they charge teams €20m a year it is heavily subsidised. Why would RSF1 subsidise the costs when the engine is passed off as someone elses?

Even with the Renault-Nissan alliance, I don't think Renault would permit any rebranding unless Nissan started to cover a share of the developments costs, rather than just the customer engine costs themselves.

#889 Sakae

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 18:33

Current engine is a product based on Renault's design and development (Mecachrome is assembling it).

I wonder however who is actually paying for development of 2014 version, since despite the alliance, Nissan is holding only about 15% of Renault's share, as opposed to 43.4% Renault's stake in Nissan, thus one has to wonder why Infiniti is plastered on a top car, or will be having a team renamed as Infiniti, unless they pay heavily for that privilege. On the other hand, one deals with Ghosn, and I don't think this guy doesn't gives a hoot who should get a credit or whether money will change hands.



#890 encircled

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 13:11

I'm not sure if Seb made an error in S3 but that was close, only 0.1s down on pole. Ahead of Mark too.

#891 joshb

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 13:16

Good session for both of them, effectively a class 1-2. Seb seemed annoyed- feels he could've found a tenth

#892 tsk19xx

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 13:21

Damn that was close. If he was on pole it would have been an easy win. Now they have their work cut out to try to jump both Mercedes. Hopefully tomorrow they display some wits and not let Alonso have a jump on them again. RB have shown to be a bit of clowns this year in the strategy department.

Edited by tsk19xx, 25 May 2013 - 13:21.


#893 fatd

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 13:26

Good session for both of them, effectively a class 1-2. Seb seemed annoyed- feels he could've found a tenth


Yeah, again the best of the rest after the Mercs. Quite disappointing when he missed out so close, but third and fourth place is nothing to be woeful about seeing Merc's ominous pace this whole weekend. Hopefully both drivers do well tomorrow and there's no Ferrari/Lotus jumping ahead after the first stint.

#894 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 16:45

So does this car generate the most downforce as Dr. Marko claims?

I would have thought all teams would run max. downforce for this race and set the car up for quali pace rather than race pace. Yet the Mercs beat them fair and square.

#895 encircled

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 16:52

Interesting to see Mark toping the speed traps @ 284km/h with Seb in 12th @ 279 km/h.

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

#896 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 18:06

Seb feels like he missed out on pole rather than the Mercs being faster. I've still got hope for tomorrow that 3rd will turn into 1st if the strategy and tyre wear are both on point. Massive improvement from Thursday.

#897 Sakae

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 18:11

Good session for both of them, effectively a class 1-2. Seb seemed annoyed- feels he could've found a tenth



...that's what he said - I am comfortable (today) with the car;

#898 encircled

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 14:23

Were RBR too conservative? Seb just did a 1:16.5s. I thought the Mercs had better tire deg/pace but. Anyway great result for them, aided by the SC of course.

#899 plumtree

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 14:44

Were RBR too conservative? Seb just did a 1:16.5s. I thought the Mercs had better tire deg/pace but. Anyway great result for them, aided by the SC of course.

Maybe but I think Rosberg could've matched the time easily had he tried to.

Rocky "Alright that's enough. Sebastian, you know the score. Don't take any risks."
Vettel "But satisfaction instead of going slow for 77 laps"
Rocky "No satisfaction for us though"
Vettel "Let's discuss this after the race"

I can understand both sides of the argument.

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#900 Sakae

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 14:52

Travesty; I would ban radio communication of this kind. That's driver's decision how much risk he will or will not take, and not some yahoo on a pit wall.