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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#901 Massa_f1

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 20:32

Travesty; I would ban radio communication of this kind. That's driver's decision how much risk he will or will not take, and not some yahoo on a pit wall.


I said the exact same thing to my mates when i saw Vettel set the blistering lap time on the 2nd last lap. Ban radio traffic! It only pissed me off. The tyre clearly had life left in it. When Red Bull tell Seb to back off i fear he backs off to much sometimes. Same as China when i felt there was more on the table from both car and tyre, but because you backed off to much it is all meaningless


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#902 sosidge

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 20:51

Were RBR too conservative? Seb just did a 1:16.5s. I thought the Mercs had better tire deg/pace but. Anyway great result for them, aided by the SC of course.


You can't do 1:16s for a 40 lap stint. Fine to kill the tyres on the penultimate lap, not much sense in killing the tyres with 35 laps to go.

If Red Bull had the tyre life to pressure the Mercs, they would have been pressuring them. But because you can't pass at Monaco, the only option was to shadow the Mercs and hope for a bit of good fortune - it was clear from the first laps that Merc were aiming for the one-stopper, and the only luck that came Red Bulls way was the safety car which put Hamilton in a compromised position (which he exacerbated by going too slow).

#903 woftam

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 22:33

Travesty; I would ban radio communication of this kind. That's driver's decision how much risk he will or will not take, and not some yahoo on a pit wall.


It shows what a massive ego the guy has? Or that he again does the opposite to what he is being told on pit wall? Just to get fastest lap?
I like the radio chatter between teams & drivers. I wish we could hear Kimi's more often. Especially after the Perez incident.



#904 Sakae

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 07:53

It shows what a massive ego the guy has? Or that he again does the opposite to what he is being told on pit wall? Just to get fastest lap?
I like the radio chatter between teams & drivers. I wish we could hear Kimi's more often. Especially after the Perez incident.

Boullier actually said that Kimi's language (Perez related) wasn't exactly "family broadcast"... :)

#905 Sakae

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 07:56

F1Zone.net is reporting huge money trouble for Lotus, which in turn could leverage RBR's position, should they decide to pursue Finn for next year. Silly season will take many different turns this year, no doubt about that.

#906 EvanRainer

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 09:35

I wonder if the good starts they got this race points to any specific improvements or was a one-off coincidence.

#907 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 13:51

This weekend confirmed the car is very strong on rear limited tracks. I expect the RB9 to be very strong in Canada too, but would like to see the car set up with longer gears for a track like that.

#908 OldSoldier2

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 14:07

It shows what a massive ego the guy has? Or that he again does the opposite to what he is being told on pit wall? Just to get fastest lap?
I like the radio chatter between teams & drivers. I wish we could hear Kimi's more often. Especially after the Perez incident.

All the drivers have big egos, especially WDCs. And go to the Silly Season thread to see who the RBR TP is. Pit wall?? :lol:

#909 Kelateboy

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 16:24

This weekend confirmed the car is very strong on rear limited tracks. I expect the RB9 to be very strong in Canada too, but would like to see the car set up with longer gears for a track like that.

The car was horrendous on front-limited circuits like Spain and China, and yet Vettel was still able to pull respectable 4th positions in both GPs. Other than Suzuka, I don't think other circuits could be considered as front-limited. With structurally harder tyres from Canada onwards, the season is looking rather positive for RBR and Vettel.

#910 np93

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 18:51

The car was horrendous on front-limited circuits like Spain and China, and yet Vettel was still able to pull respectable 4th positions in both GPs. Other than Suzuka, I don't think other circuits could be considered as front-limited. With structurally harder tyres from Canada onwards, the season is looking rather positive for RBR and Vettel.


I dunno, I'd consider Silverstone at least to be front limited, but yeah, with the lead they have, and the types of track upcoming, RBR's got a good chance of retaining the constructor's championship, and Vettel the driver's.

#911 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 21:19

The car was horrendous on front-limited circuits like Spain and China, and yet Vettel was still able to pull respectable 4th positions in both GPs. Other than Suzuka, I don't think other circuits could be considered as front-limited. With structurally harder tyres from Canada onwards, the season is looking rather positive for RBR and Vettel.


horrendous is too strong a word. In Spain, they were 3rd best. Certainly not horrendous (that goes to Mercedes). China is more difficult to tell because of the reverse strategy that Vettel used and Webber having incidents in both quali and the race.

#912 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:00

Overall a good weekend for RBR, Lotus and Ferrari both scored poorly and Sebastian further extended his lead in the Drivers' Championship. Montreal next and we'll see how the RB9 goes there, last year the RB8 was very fast in qualifying but not in the race, we'll see what the story is this time around but I expect both cars to perform strongly once again.

#913 apoka

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:05

This weekend confirmed the car is very strong on rear limited tracks. I expect the RB9 to be very strong in Canada too, but would like to see the car set up with longer gears for a track like that.

My feeling is that the race didn't tell us much at all about the pecking order and that we should rather wait for the next few races. I'm not that optimistic as other posters for RB, but the 33 points earned in Monaco certainly bode well for the WCC.


#914 fololo

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Posted 27 May 2013 - 23:19

My feeling is that the race didn't tell us much at all about the pecking order and that we should rather wait for the next few races. I'm not that optimistic as other posters for RB, but the 33 points earned in Monaco certainly bode well for the WCC.

canada perfect track for them.

Silverstone is a bad track for them

#915 Sakae

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:29

My feeling is that the (last) race didn't tell us much at all about the pecking order and that we should rather wait for the next few races. I'm not that optimistic as other posters for RB, but the 33 points earned in Monaco certainly bode well for the WCC.

the same here

#916 wayned

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:06

With structurally harder tyres from Canada onwards, the season is looking rather positive for RBR and Vettel.


I did not think the tyres were changing to a big degree now, seems to be mixed views as to what the tyre spec / changes will be.

#917 plumtree

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:29

On the performance turnaround over the weekend. (translated by google)

http://www.auto-moto...is-7175646.html

- New front wing rescues Red Bull

On Thursday was not much Red Bull. The duration of runs were pretty good, but on a round were Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel only on the places 5 and 9 "We were one second from the fastest time away," team advisor Helmut Marko also analyzed.

The Red Bull RB9, which was about average on Thursday, starting Saturday mutated into a winning car. That was the last year that way. But while the engineers in 2012 only the mechanical tuning changed, this time also came a little extra performance out of the factory so. Mark Webber pointed it to: "Adrian Newey and Peter Prodromou have sharp thinking and found a good solution."

- Buemi brings new Red Bull wings

Webber suggested that what was seen on Twitter photos. Showing test driver Sebastien Buemi at London's Heathrow airport with excess baggage. The Swiss, who had reeled off even 400 Monaco-test laps in the simulator, were two giant transport boxes on as hand luggage.

You had to look very accurate in the pit lane to see what the mysterious cargo contained. Externally, the front wing looked like always. But on the bottom it was completely redesigned. Among other things, differently placed with turning vanes.

- About the front tyre degradation issues

Basically, every millimeter that could go deeper front, Red Bull brings a tenth in his vehicle concept. Who hires his car sharply to the rear, such as Red Bull or Mercedes, gets a problem.

Adrian Newey is forced to the back of the car to set even higher than usual because it is so forward already higher than desired. This makes it difficult to seal the diffuser because the gap to the road is larger. Why were the previous year increased roll stiffness and camber to reduce the tilting of the vehicle when cornering. And that kills the tires in continuous operation. The new front wing should improve the flow back for higher ground clearance. Apparently with success.

#918 encircled

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 11:45

- Buemi brings new Red Bull wings

Webber suggested that what was seen on Twitter photos. Showing test driver Sebastien Buemi at London's Heathrow airport with excess baggage. The Swiss, who had reeled off even 400 Monaco-test laps in the simulator, were two giant transport boxes on as hand luggage.

You had to look very accurate in the pit lane to see what the mysterious cargo contained. Externally, the front wing looked like always. But on the bottom it was completely redesigned. Among other things, differently placed with turning vanes.


http://instagram.com/p/ZtJDYCHL8n/#

Posted Image

HA!

Edited by encircled, 28 May 2013 - 11:48.


#919 kenkip

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 18:59

On the performance turnaround over the weekend. (translated by google)

http://www.auto-moto...is-7175646.html

- New front wing rescues Red Bull

On Thursday was not much Red Bull. The duration of runs were pretty good, but on a round were Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel only on the places 5 and 9 "We were one second from the fastest time away," team advisor Helmut Marko also analyzed.

The Red Bull RB9, which was about average on Thursday, starting Saturday mutated into a winning car. That was the last year that way. But while the engineers in 2012 only the mechanical tuning changed, this time also came a little extra performance out of the factory so. Mark Webber pointed it to: "Adrian Newey and Peter Prodromou have sharp thinking and found a good solution."

- Buemi brings new Red Bull wings

Webber suggested that what was seen on Twitter photos. Showing test driver Sebastien Buemi at London's Heathrow airport with excess baggage. The Swiss, who had reeled off even 400 Monaco-test laps in the simulator, were two giant transport boxes on as hand luggage.

You had to look very accurate in the pit lane to see what the mysterious cargo contained. Externally, the front wing looked like always. But on the bottom it was completely redesigned. Among other things, differently placed with turning vanes.

- About the front tyre degradation issues

Basically, every millimeter that could go deeper front, Red Bull brings a tenth in his vehicle concept. Who hires his car sharply to the rear, such as Red Bull or Mercedes, gets a problem.

Adrian Newey is forced to the back of the car to set even higher than usual because it is so forward already higher than desired. This makes it difficult to seal the diffuser because the gap to the road is larger. Why were the previous year increased roll stiffness and camber to reduce the tilting of the vehicle when cornering. And that kills the tires in continuous operation. The new front wing should improve the flow back for higher ground clearance. Apparently with success.

Amazing!I never knew car parts are carried around airports so freely,cant Ferrari hire thugs to mug Bordouios?Its not like he is the biggest fella around hehe..


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#920 shonguiz

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 21:36

He really was the one who brought them ? oO

#921 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 23:28

Inb4 he replaces Webber next year...

#922 encircled

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 10:41

The car was horrendous on front-limited circuits like Spain and China, and yet Vettel was still able to pull respectable 4th positions in both GPs. Other than Suzuka, I don't think other circuits could be considered as front-limited. With structurally harder tyres from Canada onwards, the season is looking rather positive for RBR and Vettel.

It appears that Pirelli will not use the new tires for the race in Canada, only in FP session.

http://www.motorspor...n_13052903.html

#923 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:20

Amazing!I never knew car parts are carried around airports so freely,cant Ferrari hire thugs to mug Bordouios?Its not like he is the biggest fella around hehe..

That is Sebastian Buemi and not Sebastian Bourdais. :)

#924 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 11:21

http://www.formula1....3/898/1071.html

Red Bull RB9 - rear wing development.

#925 Kelateboy

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 13:13

It appears that Pirelli will not use the new tires for the race in Canada, only in FP session.

http://www.motorspor...n_13052903.html

It is a pity that Pirelli will only be using the new tyres at Silverstone, but at least the teams shall have 2 sets to play with during the friday practices.

I have no doubt RB9s will be strong in Canada this year. The tyres slated for this circuit are mediums and supersofts. Last year, Pirelli chose softs and supersofts. Since this year's mediums are essentially last year's softs, this year's event will be run on similar primes but softer options. Vettel got the pole but faded to 4th on a 2-stopper in 2012. But I contributed his difficulties last year on the track temperature which was 45C at the start of the race - the hottest all weekend. This year, I reckon the race will be run on cooler conditions which should suit RB9s better.

Red Bull should easily cover this race on a 2-stopper with Lotus and Ferrari potentially on a single stop. But the pit lane is the shortest of all F1 circuits; thus the penalty for running an additional pitstop is less here than elsewhere.


#926 EvanRainer

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 13:21

The track is certainly not front-limited. It has issues with graining but not so much wear. This was never considered a Red Bull track but that was more because it was always considered a McLaren track rather than Red Bull being bad on it. last year they still hadn't fully sorted the car at this point, Macca was faster etc. And they blew it strategy wise as well.

I see no reason why they won't be a victory contender here.

#927 FPV GTHO

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 15:36

Maybe the reliance on top speed made it less of a Red Bull track?

I think the strategy will be curious. No way will there be a single stop with the super softs available i would imagine.

#928 Kelateboy

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 07:50

Maybe the reliance on top speed made it less of a Red Bull track?

I think the strategy will be curious. No way will there be a single stop with the super softs available i would imagine.

Last year, Sergio got onto the podium with a single stopper, while Alonso lost the podium because his tyres lost the grip at the end of the race. Raikkonen was also on a single stop and he finished 8th.

With the supersofts here, will anybody try a single stop? I think it all depends on the track temperature on the race day. Remember last year in Canada during friday practices, a single stop looked possible as the track temperature hovered in the low 30C. Cars were not showing excessive tyre wear then, but came race day with 45C track temperature, the tyre wear became an issue with most 2-stopping and Jenson 3-stopping.

Could Raikkonen repeat his 1-stop last year with this year's supersofts amidst cooler track condition? I don't know, but I think it is very unlikely and maybe impossible as the current supersofts have been shown to be a crap tyre this year.

#929 EvanRainer

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:05

Last year, Sergio got onto the podium with a single stopper, while Alonso lost the podium because his tyres lost the grip at the end of the race. Raikkonen was also on a single stop and he finished 8th.

With the supersofts here, will anybody try a single stop? I think it all depends on the track temperature on the race day. Remember last year in Canada during friday practices, a single stop looked possible as the track temperature hovered in the low 30C. Cars were not showing excessive tyre wear then, but came race day with 45C track temperature, the tyre wear became an issue with most 2-stopping and Jenson 3-stopping.

Could Raikkonen repeat his 1-stop last year with this year's supersofts amidst cooler track condition? I don't know, but I think it is very unlikely and maybe impossible as the current supersofts have been shown to be a crap tyre this year.


Just to point out that Alonso and Vettel missed out on a podium because their teams waiting too long before pitting them at the end.

And yes the whole top speed thing was a factor as well. I am actually very curious to see what setup direction they will go with. I expect them to do well on this track.

#930 Kelateboy

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:36

And yes the whole top speed thing was a factor as well. I am actually very curious to see what setup direction they will go with. I expect them to do well on this track.

They will go for short-gearing as usual.

Sebastian's pole lap last year.



#931 EvanRainer

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:10

They will go for short-gearing as usual.

Sebastian's pole lap last year.


They may not go for short gearing as much as last year if they feel they need to save tyres. That may perhaps push them to consider going for higher top speed than usual? Rear-limited track but then what if they feel going for the fewer stops strategy is best and want to maximise tyre preservation? Who knows.

#932 Kelateboy

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Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:12

They may not go for short gearing as much as last year if they feel they need to save tyres. That may perhaps push them to consider going for higher top speed than usual? Rear-limited track but then what if they feel going for the fewer stops strategy is best and want to maximise tyre preservation? Who knows.

I think that RBR will be going for shorter gearing than last year due to the lack of free use of DRS in the qualifying. Last year, RB8 reached 7th gear in Canada on 4 occasions. On 2 occcasions, they barely touched 7th gear. On the pit straight, they were on the 7th gear for 4seconds. On the longest straight, RB8 was on the 7th gear for 9s, clocking the 2nd lowest top speed at 316kph and hitting the limiter in the process. RBR will be affected on this long straight and will have difficulties overtaking other cars should they qualify badly. Again their usual tactics would be to qualify ahead of everyone, nail the start and open up a gap quickly before the DRS kicks in.

The only time last year I noticed RBR tried to run tall gearing with a long 7th gear was in friday practices after they introduced DDRS in Singapore. They tried it in a few GPs, but it did not seem to give them the time advantage and resorted to their usual practices on saturday and sunday. Abu Dhabi was a whole different story though...


#933 Kelateboy

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 06:59

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/107847

He later added: "At the moment, it looks like there is unanimous agreement."

The new rear tyres are expected to operate 5-10 degrees cooler than the current ones, but there will be no change to their shape.

Pirelli has admitted this could also lead to a slight increase in the durability of the rear tyres.



#934 Zava

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 15:56

seems like a new nose:
http://formula1.com/...dne1307ju04.jpg
resized: (don't know if permanent, so I'll leave the original link here)
Posted Image

curved underside at the tip, different step (the slope doesn't get narrower at the front) and the camera housings moved backwards, just in front of the suspension now (probably that caused the curved underside)

old one: (and the mother of all tripods :D )
Posted Image

Edited by Zava, 07 June 2013 - 16:01.


#935 plumtree

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 16:22

seems like a new nose:
http://formula1.com/...dne1307ju04.jpg

curved underside at the tip, different step (the slope doesn't get narrower at the front) and the camera housings moved backwards, just in front of the suspension now (probably that caused the curved underside)

Briefly tested on penultimate day of the final winter testing.
Posted Image

This new nose better make the car faster, because it's really ugly. :o

#936 Cavani

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 16:27

Briefly tested on penultimate day of the final winter testing.
Posted Image

This new nose better make the car faster, because it's really ugly. :o


its perfect , what is so ugly about it ? its no as if the original nose was beautiful

#937 weltmeister1995

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 17:01

But I love it...

#938 Zava

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 17:06

Briefly tested on penultimate day of the final winter testing.

I know. ;)
http://forums.autosp...a...t&p=6148332

#939 Sakae

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 17:57

I have mixed feelings after FP1. Car's top speed is simply not there, and long straights make them volnurable.

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#940 joshb

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 19:41

They're not far off. Race pace looked good and had both drivers got all 3 sectors together without traffic etc, they're right with the top 2.



#941 weltmeister1995

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 20:05

I think the red bulls are not that far off from the pole tomorrow.It might be that the red bulls are sandbaging,or they are really 0.4 off the pace.
I am not really worried,they were off the pace in practice 2 even last year,and yet vettel managed to get a pole by a big margin.
P2 last year,results...
1 4 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.259
2 5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:15.313 0.054
3 6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:15.410 0.151
4 1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 1:15.531 0.272
5 11 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:15.544 0.285
6 14 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1:15.651 0.392
7 7 Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1:15.697 0.438
8 12 Nico Hulkenberg Force India-Mercedes 1:15.799 0.540
9 3 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:15.812 0.553
10 8 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:15.878 0.619

Q3,grid order!
1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 1:13.784
2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:14.087
3 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:14.151
4 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 1:14.346
5 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:14.411
6 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:14.465

My expectations are not really high but I really hope vettel and also webber will be competitive in the race for the win...
Of course a would like vettel to win there but my mind tells me that this is not really likely.If it hapens I will be happy if not its ok.
Its time for vettel to win also at Canada. :up:

#942 Kelateboy

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 20:08

They're not far off. Race pace looked good and had both drivers got all 3 sectors together without traffic etc, they're right with the top 2.

Not much differences in top speed to last year for both RBR drivers. Other than Ricciardo, all the top drivers are within 4kph of each other.

1. Ricciardo 323.1 kph
2. Sutil 319.0 kph
17 Webber 315.2 kph
19. Vettel 315.0 kph

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

Anyone got a really good picture of that skinny rear wing used in Canada?

#943 V3TT3L

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 21:43

Posted Image

#944 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 21:44

I have mixed feelings after FP1. Car's top speed is simply not there, and long straights make them volnurable.


Top speed is only 2-3 kmph off the Mercedes and Ferrari.

#945 encircled

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 22:19

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Ugh that nose.

#946 Kelateboy

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:13

The tyres are good for 2-stoppers and it is being flattered by an especially low track temperature of 20C. We'll find out whether it is 2012 all over again - low temperature on friday and saturday, but a scorching hot 45C track temperature on race day.

Sebastian Vettel on a 20-lap stint in FP2. Competitive times all around....

http://www.f1fanatic...ctice-analysis/

#947 Kelateboy

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 03:25

RED BULL DROP NOSE BULGE

In an interesting turn of events, Red Bull Racing have introduced a different nose cone for its RB9 at Canada, one that drops a bulge underneath the nose that was added on the RB8 back in Singapore 2012. Right now, when Ferrari is testing its own nose bulge for the first time, Red Bull crucially drop it, opting for a very flat nosecone.

At the same time, the cameras have also been moved from the tip of the nose to a more traditional position just ahead of the upper front suspension arm. The vanity panel meanwhile was also changed, reverting to a version that was briefly tested at the final Barcelona winter test.

http://www.f1technic...development/416

#948 V3TT3L

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 18:39

Fantastic chance to extend the championship leaderboard :wave:

Qualifying
Driver Teams Time
1 S Vettel (GER)Red Bull 1'25.425
...
6 F Alonso (ESP)Ferrari 1'26.504
9 K Räikkönen (FIN)Lotus 1'27.432

#949 Kelateboy

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 19:53

A rather large top speed differences to the other WDC contenders. However, the differences were smaller compared to last year. Interestingly enough, the RBR was banging on the speed limiter at 316 kph, just like last year too....

1. Perez 322.2 kph
6. Raikkonen 322.0 kph
10. Hamilton 321.0 kph
13. Alonso 320.7 kph
19. Webber 316.7 kph
20. Vettel 316.1 kph


#950 weltmeister1995

weltmeister1995
  • Member

  • 137 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 08 June 2013 - 20:03

So even if we fall behind, there will be a possibility to overtake with the open drs... :up: