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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#951 apoka

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 20:47

Fantastic chance to extend the championship leaderboard :wave:

There could be huge differences between a wet qualy and a dry race tomorrow. I'd be surprised if Kimi and Alonso do not make up quite a few positions.


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#952 plumtree

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 22:08

"Unlike the previous grand prix, held on the streets of Monaco, the Circuit Gilles-Villeneuve does not confer any particular advantage on pole position. Since 2000, the race has only been won from pole on four occasions. It has also been won from second on the grid four times in this period."

Maybe third time's the charm? I'm not quite sure how much dry and warmer conditions would play a role. Just hoping they won't get caught out in terms of strategy.

#953 Sakae

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 22:17

A rather large top speed differences to the other WDC contenders. However, the differences were smaller compared to last year. Interestingly enough, the RBR was banging on the speed limiter at 316 kph, just like last year too....

1. Perez 322.2 kph
6. Raikkonen 322.0 kph
10. Hamilton 321.0 kph
13. Alonso 320.7 kph
19. Webber 316.7 kph
20. Vettel 316.1 kph

...as I thought; massive delta.

#954 encircled

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 22:31

A rather large top speed differences to the other WDC contenders. However, the differences were smaller compared to last year. Interestingly enough, the RBR was banging on the speed limiter at 316 kph, just like last year too....

1. Perez 322.2 kph
6. Raikkonen 322.0 kph
10. Hamilton 321.0 kph
13. Alonso 320.7 kph
19. Webber 316.7 kph
20. Vettel 316.1 kph

Not really. In Bahrain, the difference was up to 8 km/h to the other WDC contenders. In Spain, the difference was up to 12 km/h to the other WDC contenders. I actually find the difference smaller than usual.

#955 Kelateboy

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 03:02

Not really. In Bahrain, the difference was up to 8 km/h to the other WDC contenders. In Spain, the difference was up to 12 km/h to the other WDC contenders. I actually find the difference smaller than usual.

Agreed. Compared to other circuits, the differences here in top speed are smaller eventhough this is essentially the 1st low-downforce circuit on the race calendar. I think the figures are rather favorable to RBR in the event that might need to do some overtaking on the backstraight.

Anybody thinking RBR will go for 3-stops on full banzai mode? Maybe M-SS-SS-SS?


#956 Kelateboy

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 05:41

Posted Image

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Comparison of the rear wings on front limited circuit of Spain, high-downforce circuit of Monaco and low-downforce circuit of Canada. No monkey seat, fewer slot/vortex generator, and thinner main plane in Canada.

#957 encircled

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 10:09

Judging by this weather forecast, the track might start in damp conditions.



#958 apoka

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:44

Judging by this weather forecast, the track might start in damp conditions.

Looks more dry than damp at the moment.

It's odd to hope for rain when you have pole, but a cooler/damper track would really help the RBs.


#959 Cavani

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 11:48

I am afraid this is gonna be another 2011 from now on for vette

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#960 Kelateboy

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 12:20

Looks more dry than damp at the moment.

It's odd to hope for rain when you have pole, but a cooler/damper track would really help the RBs.

It looks like a dry race, which is not bad for the pole sitter. But if we can have a cloudy day, then so much better.

I think Sebastian will start on SS, and then switch to medium. From there on, they will react whether to go for a 2-stop or 3-stop depending on the tyres degradation. At this point, nobody knows how the tyres would react in a much hotter environment as the race simulation in FP2 was held on a rather cold circuit. Hopefully it is Bahrain and not Australia/Spain for Vettel.


#961 sosidge

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 13:13

I am afraid this is gonna be another 2011 from now on for vette


Far from it. 2011 the car was utterly dominant in every situation and Vettel's straightforward championship was no less than he and the team deserved.

This year the car is at best in a group of three that can fight for wins depending on track conditions. What Vettel has done this season is drive perfectly even when the car has been less than perfect. Alonso should really be leading this championship but bad decisions have dropped them easy points.

Qualifying was a lucky break for Vettel, but I doubt the car will be the fastest package in a dry race. Extending his championship lead depends mostly on whether he gets beaten into the first corner or not.

#962 Racer3

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 13:19

Far from it. 2011 the car was utterly dominant in every situation and Vettel's straightforward championship was no less than he and the team deserved.

This year the car is at best in a group of three that can fight for wins depending on track conditions. What Vettel has done this season is drive perfectly even when the car has been less than perfect. Alonso should really be leading this championship but bad decisions have dropped them easy points.

Qualifying was a lucky break for Vettel, but I doubt the car will be the fastest package in a dry race. Extending his championship lead depends mostly on whether he gets beaten into the first corner or not.


This :up:



#963 weltmeister1995

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 13:32

Even if Vettel or Webber fall behind,they will still had a big chance to overtake the cars back.We are just 4 km slower on the straights then our main rivals...

#964 Kelateboy

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 15:44

@willbuxton

Track temperature is already twice what it was when long run data was gathered two days ago. Its a slight step into the unknown for everyone

#965 Sakae

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 17:12

Hmm, first impression (in superficial analysis) - bad news for Sebi.

#966 weltmeister1995

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 17:35

Hmm, first impression (in superficial analysis) - bad news for Sebi.

Don"t understand,what are you talking about?

#967 encircled

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 19:37

Well, shame about Mark and GVdG. Probably cost Mark a podium finish. But well done to Seb.

#968 Sakae

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 20:53

Don"t understand,what are you talking about?

...before race started, I was concerned about reports that track is heating up, because I was suspicious that RB car was going to slow down. This was very close to race, and there was no time to think it through. Well, now we know! Sebastian is the real Weltmeister! :)

#969 encircled

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 21:25

Posted Image

#970 V3TT3L

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 23:56

@willbuxton
Track temperature is already twice what it was when long run data was gathered two days ago. Its a slight step into the unknown for everyone

:lol: What a drama boy :rolleyes: They are racing these cars for six months already

#971 Kelateboy

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:26

:lol: What a drama boy :rolleyes: They are racing these cars for six months already

There was another tweet from @willbuxton an hour after the one posted by me. It was posted by encircled in the race thread and I did not see the need to repost that tweet here.

@willbuxton Track temperature is dropping, wind is picking up, clouds are rolling in...

The conditions were changing, but at the end it worked fine for Vettel and RBR. :up:

#972 encircled

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:13

Pirelli new tyres won't race in Britain

Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery told AUTOSPORT: "We are not going to race with the new tyre as we did not get much of a chance to test it here [in Canada].

"We have some internal specification changes - process changes - that we think will go the full way to curing the delamination issue that we have seen.

"That is good from many points of view, as it means teams will be working with the same tyre they started the year with.

"But it is probably not good for some teams that are struggling with the front tyre."



#973 encircled

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:18

What do you think will happen in Britain? I think Ferrari/Alonso combo will be very strong there, as shown in the last 2 years where Fernando took a win and a 2nd place.

Lotus should also be strong at least in terms of race pace.

Qualifying should be competitive for the RB9, but it is the race pace that will be in question, as there are high energy corners in Silverstone although RBR has been recently strong in Britain, taking two double podiums in the last two years.

#974 kenkip

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 13:07

I thought it was a nice touch getting Rocky to go up with Seb to get the trophy.Out of all the engineers on the grid he must have the toughest job trying to reel in a hot blooded triple world champ!
Great work from Mark and Seb,did the best they could as per usual.Title no 4 is looking good!
I read somewhere that if RBR win in Austin they will have tasted victory in all tracks on the calender!This is amazing considering RBR got its first win 4 years ago!What a team!

#975 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 13:13

I thought it was a nice touch getting Rocky to go up with Seb to get the trophy.Out of all the engineers on the grid he must have the toughest job trying to reel in a hot blooded triple world champ!


I think a race engineer will always prefer to have a faster driver is at times defiant than a slower driver who is always obedient.

#976 encircled

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 13:14

Anyway, here is Mark back in the team photo.

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via f-e-n

#977 Diablobb81

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 13:16

Is this a find Waldo photo? "Poor" Mark.

#978 Sakae

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 14:03

I think a race engineer will always prefer to have a faster driver is at times defiant than a slower driver who is always obedient.

Penske said this once - what, fifteen to twenty years ago(?) - you can slow down fast driver, but not the other way around.

#979 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 14:07

Penske said this once - what, fifteen to twenty years ago(?) - you can slow down fast driver, but not the other way around.


:up:

I'm at work so i can't turn the sound up, but below is a link to a Stella/Smedley interview. I believe somewhere in there, they were asked something like "what do you prefer, an obedient or fast driver?" and both said fast.

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#980 Kelateboy

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 14:08

I think a race engineer will always prefer to have a faster driver is at times defiant than a slower driver who is always obedient.

The fortune of a race engineer is always dependant upon the performance of his driver. Rocky is a perfect fit for Vettel, but he can sometimes come across as overbearing and overly demanding.

#981 Kelateboy

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 14:13

What do you think will happen in Britain? I think Ferrari/Alonso combo will be very strong there, as shown in the last 2 years where Fernando took a win and a 2nd place.

Lotus should also be strong at least in terms of race pace.

Qualifying should be competitive for the RB9, but it is the race pace that will be in question, as there are high energy corners in Silverstone although RBR has been recently strong in Britain, taking two double podiums in the last two years.

I hope Pirelli will bring in its two hardest compounds to Silverstone. It's either Hards/Mediums or Hards/Softs, anything else would make Barcelona look like childs' play.

But the best scenario would be if it rains or cold during the race weekend. :D

#982 encircled

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 14:27

I hope Pirelli will bring in its two hardest compounds to Silverstone. It's either Hards/Mediums or Hards/Softs, anything else would make Barcelona look like childs' play.

But the best scenario would be if it rains or cold during the race weekend. :D


I think it will be Hards/Mediums for the race like they did in Bahrain if we are looking at the recent trend of Pirelli's tire nominations. They also went from Hards/Softs to Hards/Mediums in Barcelona this year and went from SS/Softs to SS/Mediums in Canada.

#983 F.M.

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 21:35

Vettel on tyre wear: "This here was a good race weekend for us - not just because of the win, but also because of the numbers. In terms of tyre wear we have been average, which hasn’t always been the case, so we’ve learned a bit more in the last couple of days."
http://www.formula1....13/6/14669.html

Edited by F.M., 10 June 2013 - 21:35.


#984 plumtree

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 22:17

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22844748
Vettel's Canada dominance down to circuit layout - Gary Anderson

Sebastian Vettel's domination of the Canadian Grand Prix was all about the circuit layout.

The Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is fundamentally a traction track. There is only one quickish corner and the lateral forces are low. To be quick, a car needs good traction coming off the corners and for the tyres not to grain - where the surface starts to tear.

All that plays to the strengths of the Red Bull and minimizes its weaknesses - there are none of the high cornering forces that caused them such trouble in Spain, one of only two places so far this season where Vettel has not been on the podium.

As with Monaco, Canada is a unique track with unique demands. So, impressive as Vettel's win was, it does not necessarily mean he is going to carry on like that for the rest of the season.

Having said that, there is no denying that the Red Bull is a good car and Vettel's early laps in the race were like so many of his victories have been - blistering pace to take him out of the DRS range. The difference this time was that he kept pushing afterwards as well, rather than just managing the gap.

It was interesting that Vettel's team-mate Mark Webber had a fairly major part of his front wing knocked off but continued to be competitive, even setting the fastest lap of the race. That is an indication of the lack of high-lateral-force corners in Canada. Had there been, Webber would have killed the front tyres with that damage.

'all about the circuit layout' to 'more about the circuit layout', then I tend to agree with him.
They looked mighty in Bahrain (another braking/traction track) then struggled a lot in Barcelona. Track temperatures probably won't be that high in the next couple of races and it may make their life slightly easier though.

#985 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 03:50

Vettel on tyre wear: "This here was a good race weekend for us - not just because of the win, but also because of the numbers. In terms of tyre wear we have been average, which hasn’t always been the case, so we’ve learned a bit more in the last couple of days."
http://www.formula1....13/6/14669.html

One of the very few occasions where the word "average" sounds so promising. I thought the tyre-wear was expected but the best part of it is Vettel's acknowledgement that they have learned a bit more about the tyres in Canada.

Hopefully Pirelli will nominate Hards and Mediums for Silverstone. Copse, Abbey and Becketts will probably be too much for Softs as the options.

#986 Sakae

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 04:54

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/22844748
Vettel's Canada dominance down to circuit layout - Gary Anderson


'all about the circuit layout' to 'more about the circuit layout', then I tend to agree with him.
They looked mighty in Bahrain (another braking/traction track) then struggled a lot in Barcelona. Track temperatures probably won't be that high in the next couple of races and it may make their life slightly easier though.

It seems that G. Anderson has very little use for Vettel, as a driver; oh well.

#987 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:19

http://adamcooperf1....ht-window-here/

A few notable points from that article :-

“It was a really strong race for us today,” said Horner. “And what was good about the race as well was that everybody seemed to be pushing flat out from start to finish, unlike in Monaco a couple of weeks ago."

“Going into the race we thought it might be a one-stop, but then fairly evidently because of the temperature rise it became more obvious that it was going to be a two-stop, and really he never looked threatened."

"We see with these tyres that once you’re in the window with them, you can extract a lot of lap time. We were certainly in the right window here.

So does that mean from now on, we should pray for cooler overall conditions (track temperature of 28C-33C) to get the same low rate of tyre wear and degradation? Or is this specific to this type of circuit that lacks many high-speed sweeping corners?

#988 Sakae

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 07:27

I am not sure whether two concerns are equal, but I am reading it as if they hit correctly operating temperature window, than they can race the tire. The Monaco remark probably was continuation of bus-saga. (A joke).

Edited by Sakae, 11 June 2013 - 07:29.


#989 EvanRainer

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:03

I don't think Horner there implies that it was only RedBull that was in the right window.

In any case, we need to wait for another front-limited track to see what, if anything, has really changed.

#990 TheThirdTenor1

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:25

http://adamcooperf1....ht-window-here/

A few notable points from that article :-


So does that mean from now on, we should pray for cooler overall conditions (track temperature of 28C-33C) to get the same low rate of tyre wear and degradation? Or is this specific to this type of circuit that lacks many high-speed sweeping corners?


Red Bull don't struggle with rear tyre wear (even in the heat of Bahrain, their rear tyres were fine). Like you said, you have to wait for a track like Silverstone to see how far Red Bull have come with managing their front tyre deg. Also going for shorter gears tended to hamper you in qualifying in 2011 and 12 (because of unlimited DRS) but paid dividends during the race.

Edited by TheThirdTenor1, 11 June 2013 - 09:29.


#991 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 09:47

I don't think Horner there implies that it was only RedBull that was in the right window.

In any case, we need to wait for another front-limited track to see what, if anything, has really changed.

Silverstone will be interesting to watch. While not specifically a front-limited circuits, it has numerous fast-sweeping corners that could kill the front tyres in a whiff, and some slow-speed corners where the traction is a premium.

#992 encircled

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 10:12

Silverstone will be interesting to watch. While not specifically a front-limited circuits, it has numerous fast-sweeping corners that could kill the front tyres in a whiff, and some slow-speed corners where the traction is a premium.


What do you think of the assumed 2nd DRS zone in Silverstone? AMuS old article assumes the 2nd DRS zone will be after the Maggots-Becketts section.

#993 encircled

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 11:44

Interview with Seb and Christian - Car and Driver

#994 joshb

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 14:10

I get the sense Ferrari and Lotus will do well at Silverstone BUT if it's a cold, cloudy Silverstone and they use hards and mediums, it could well bring RB into play, particularly in qualy (Mercedes in qualy too).



#995 joshb

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 14:11

What do you think of the assumed 2nd DRS zone in Silverstone? AMuS old article assumes the 2nd DRS zone will be after the Maggots-Becketts section.


Could work but as Hangar Straight into Stowe is your best bet, I'd be tempted to have the 2nd one of the old pits straight into Copse or the run to Club chicane at the end of the lap

#996 Sakae

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 14:47

Interview with Seb and Christian - Car and Driver

Thanks. I love Seb, and I could be wrong whether the interview was mainly about him, or more of 50/50, but he talks a lot. That's the only "negative" thing I have on him. Did I detect minor jabs on Webber? Twice I think. First Seb in connection having second driver for WCC, and then interviewer when he asked who is the most difficult guy to overtake (other than your teammate). Good interview.

#997 Sakae

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Posted 11 June 2013 - 16:37

David about Bull, Red Bull that is.

#998 Kelateboy

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Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:25

What do you think of the assumed 2nd DRS zone in Silverstone? AMuS old article assumes the 2nd DRS zone will be after the Maggots-Becketts section.

I would agree with that article since personally, I believe there are only 2 sensible areas to have the DRS zones at Silverstone - Wellington straight and Hangar straight. International Pits and National Pits straights are too short to run DRS.


#999 encircled

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 13:32

2 DRS zones confirmed now.

News just in!! We will have 2 DRS zones for the #BritishGP this year: Wellington Straight and Hangar Straight!

https://twitter.com/SilverstoneUK

Should RBR go for an aggressive strategy? What's the total pit stop time loss for Silverstone?

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#1000 Zava

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Posted 13 June 2013 - 13:38

2 DRS zones confirmed now.


https://twitter.com/SilverstoneUK

Should RBR go for an aggressive strategy? What's the total pit stop time loss for Silverstone?

one thing is sure, the last sector is about 1,5 seconds quicker if you go to the pits. hopefully Seb won't pit on the penultimate lap just for the sake of the fastest lap! :p
(though I think laps ending with pitting wouldn't count as FL anyway)