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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#1051 Kelateboy

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 09:58

The new kevlar construction for Germany is going to reduce rear tyre temperature by 10C. Vettel should be worried about Hamilton and Mercedes now.

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#1052 Fangiola

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 10:20

I have not heard what actually happened to Sebs car. Was it loss of transmission or gearbox failure. I guess the tyre debacle just drowned everything else

#1053 Kelateboy

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:24

I have not heard what actually happened to Sebs car. Was it loss of transmission or gearbox failure. I guess the tyre debacle just drowned everything else

I have not found any detailed explanation of what happened to Sebastian's gearbox other than a defective 5th gear, but he said the problems had been fixed.

"After that it was quite frustrating and disappointing to lose the lead because of a technical problem, but as I said, these things happen. We've understood the problem and fixed the problem so we move on."

Am I the only one who feels that Mercedes is now the team to beat for the remainder of the season? Hamilton and Rosberg's pace in FP1 is very worrying for RBR.

#1054 plumtree

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 10:54

You're definitely not alone. The lost 25 points feels much bigger now for both their WCC and WDC campaign. Yesterday Seb seemed quite confident about this race though. Let's see how much they can improve from here.

Regarding gearbox problem, this was the most detailed answer I've read.
Q: Sebastian, a mechanical failure prevented you from claiming an almost certain race win. What signals did you get from your car?
Sebastian Vettel: None! It came very suddenly. Everything was looking really good and we had a good gap to Nico (Rosberg) behind - then suddenly, coming out of Stowe, I wanted to change from fifth into sixth gear and that was the moment that I lost fifth gear. Then the others subsequently passed out. Why? I have no idea. We have to sit down and go through the data in the next two days to make sure it will not happen again.

#1055 Kelateboy

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:16

You're definitely not alone. The lost 25 points feels much bigger now for both their WCC and WDC campaign. Yesterday Seb seemed quite confident about this race though. Let's see how much they can improve from here.

The writing was on the wall last week. Hoping for a changeable condition or at least a sweltering heat this weekend. Let's see if Vettel could significantly improve on his first sector time in FP2 which will be keys to challenging the two Mercedes drivers.


#1056 plumtree

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 11:29

Now come to think of it, these new camber/pressure restrictions hurt them the most? It's hard to believe their relative pace have fallen off this much just in a few days.

#1057 Bleu

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 13:55

Suzuka only one? What a shame... I would have thought that two zones were a natural choice there (before 130R and then the main straight)


No braking into 130R, that makes inclusion of DRS zone difficult.

#1058 weltmeister1995

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:00

Good job guys,for finding the right set up.

#1059 Sakae

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 14:11

All teams are sending mix messages, especially Seb, and I fear that neither FP3 will really tell much how race may develop. Impulsively one could say it's among three drivers (Merc+Webber), Seb being an odd man out, but only around 16:00 on Sunday we can tell more, and I hope my man will put his foot down!

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#1060 Kelateboy

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 17:07

Sebastian Vettel - 8th/1st: "I wasn't so happy with the car this morning and Mercedes were quick, but in the afternoon we were in better shape. We'll see, but so far I am happy. To be clear about yesterday and the GPDA meeting: the general agreement was that we're happy Pirelli bought a new specification of tyre for this event and want to thank them for their flexibility and reaction times - they were able to find a solution in only a couple of days. The circumstances that we raced under in Silverstone were not what we can accept, but I don't think we will see those issues again."

Mark Webber - 3rd/3rd: "It was okay today and we had dry weather, which was good – it meant we could get our runs done on both compounds and the new tyres seem okay. Pirelli have done what they can and gone back to tyres they know work here. It's impossible to tell how they will affect the performance of the car – but it feels comfortable so far."


#1061 plumtree

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 18:43

http://www.formula1....13/7/14764.html

Q: Red Bull didn’t have any tyre issues at Silverstone, but Sebastian had a gearbox failure. Have you analysed the situation - and hopefully eliminated the glitch?
CH: It was an input shaft in the gearbox. It was a component that was pretty much the same for the last three or four years - and it was frustrating. We worked very hard to find out why it happened and to prevent it from happening again. It is frustrating to have a mechanical failure like that - particularly ten laps away from winning the British Grand Prix!

Q: So it was the first time that this issue had happened?
CH: It is the first time in six years that we had that component fail.


http://en.espnf1.com...ory/114847.html

The (Kevlar) tyres run at a lower operating temperature to the ones used so far this year, which may affect performance, but Webber said he had no issues during Friday practice.

"I feel comfortable on that tyre, it's gone very well for us today," he said. "But the race is not just resting on that tyre, we need to make sure we get the most out of the rest of the package and that means tomorrow but also the race itself. Overall we got the maximum out today's programme and it went quite well."

"Between the three of us it's going to be very tight," he said. "Mercedes are more than capable of doing a front row lockout, as they have done at the last few races. Seb and I look a little bit more competitive on one lap today but Mercedes could have put the fuel up so we're not going to get our hopes up for tomorrow and we're going to keep working hard."

#1062 Sakae

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 19:00

http://www.formula1....13/7/14764.html

Q: Red Bull didn’t have any tyre issues at Silverstone, but Sebastian had a gearbox failure. Have you analysed the situation - and hopefully eliminated the glitch?
CH: It was an input shaft in the gearbox. It was a component that was pretty much the same for the last three or four years - and it was frustrating. We worked very hard to find out why it happened and to prevent it from happening again. It is frustrating to have a mechanical failure like that - particularly ten laps away from winning the British Grand Prix!

Q: So it was the first time that this issue had happened?
CH: It is the first time in six years that we had that component fail.


http://en.espnf1.com...ory/114847.html

The (Kevlar) tyres run at a lower operating temperature to the ones used so far this year, which may affect performance, but Webber said he had no issues during Friday practice.

"I feel comfortable on that tyre, it's gone very well for us today," he said. "But the race is not just resting on that tyre, we need to make sure we get the most out of the rest of the package and that means tomorrow but also the race itself. Overall we got the maximum out today's programme and it went quite well."

"Between the three of us it's going to be very tight," he said. "Mercedes are more than capable of doing a front row lockout, as they have done at the last few races. Seb and I look a little bit more competitive on one lap today but Mercedes could have put the fuel up so we're not going to get our hopes up for tomorrow and we're going to keep working hard."

"Between the three of us it's going to be very tight,"..? There is 4 or 5 of them for the podium.

#1063 Szoelloe

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 19:05

"Between the three of us it's going to be very tight,"..? There is 4 or 5 of them for the podium.

I assume he meant 3 teams and six cars.


#1064 weltmeister1995

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 19:52

Newey already told that if they have this kind of tyre tests like did mercedes had they would find more then a one second in this 3 days of test.
I also think,that this tyre test will be very good for us and the team of red bull.Maybe they will start to become dominant again,which I really hope so...

#1065 EMorris

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 19:55

Newey already told that if they have this kind of tyre tests like did mercedes had they would find more then a one second in this 3 days of test.
I also think,that this tyre test will be very good for us and the team of red bull.Maybe they will start to become dominant again,which I really hope so...


Source?

#1066 Szoelloe

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 19:57

Source?


Seriously?


#1067 weltmeister1995

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 19:58

Source?

Huh I am sorry I did see one of the article saying this,about 3 weeks ago.I will try to find the page and send to you.And I am 100%,that he said this.
Edit:Oh I already find it,here is the link:
http://www.guardian....yre-testing-row
From the article!
Helmut Marko, Red Bull's special consultant, claimed Mercedes could have gained a one second per lap advantage by testing for three days between the two races. He said: "We are very unhappy. When we test for three days, we go a second faster – that's what Adrian Newey [Red Bull's designer] says. It definitely helped them – you can see that they had no tyre problems today. That's no accident.

goingthedistance:On race pace red bull is still ahead of Mercedes,but Mercedes has the edge in QUALY...

Edited by weltmeister1995, 05 July 2013 - 20:03.


#1068 goingthedistance

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:00

Huh I am sorry I did see one of the article saying this,about 3 weeks ago.I will try to find the page and send to you.And I am 100%,that he said this.

Cheers


It was said, though it was Horner reporting what Newey said rather than a direct quote. Not sure if it's true, it'll be interesting to see if Red Bull pull ahead of Merc after the test.

#1069 EMorris

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 20:15

Huh I am sorry I did see one of the article saying this,about 3 weeks ago.I will try to find the page and send to you.And I am 100%,that he said this.
Edit:Oh I already find it,here is the link:
http://www.guardian....yre-testing-row
From the article!
Helmut Marko, Red Bull's special consultant, claimed Mercedes could have gained a one second per lap advantage by testing for three days between the two races. He said: "We are very unhappy. When we test for three days, we go a second faster – that's what Adrian Newey [Red Bull's designer] says. It definitely helped them – you can see that they had no tyre problems today. That's no accident.

goingthedistance:On race pace red bull is still ahead of Mercedes,but Mercedes has the edge in QUALY...


Cheers, I hadn't seen this. Very interesting but I'm sure he's exaggerating a bit

#1070 Kelateboy

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 02:59

Newey already told that if they have this kind of tyre tests like did mercedes had they would find more then a one second in this 3 days of test.
I also think,that this tyre test will be very good for us and the team of red bull.Maybe they will start to become dominant again,which I really hope so...

These teams are not stupid. Since they can't test any new components at YDT other than the balance, they will make sure to bolt on whatever they intend to test here at Nurburgring. For as long as it is already on their cars for a single lap, they could use that in the YDT. There will get 3 sets of hards and 2 sets of mediums daily at Silverstone - that is going to help these teams tremendously and they will get the use of race driver(s) for a day.

I believe the tests will be beneficial to all teams and might tip the scale back away from MGP.

#1071 Kelateboy

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 03:02

Based on FP2, I believe RB9 have the best race pace. Their strength against MGP is in the middle sector. It is also looking likely that MGP are going to have difficulties getting more than just a few laps from those softs. The downside is we don't know MGP fuel level, so there is nothing definitive that could be said about their respective paces.

But on a single qualifying lap, I am still convinced that MGP are head and shoulder above all the competition, including RBR.

#1072 Sakae

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:14

After FP3 it seems that Vettel is not totally out of it as yet. He might be thinking "Canada"!

#1073 Kelateboy

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 10:20

After FP3 it seems that Vettel is not totally out of it as yet. He might be thinking "Canada"!

I am cautiously optimistic of his chance in 2hrs time. :D

But one thing for sure - it will be close between RBR and MGP for the first two rows of the grid. Lotus, Force India and Ferrari will be fighting for scraps.

#1074 encircled

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:22

This is pretty encouraging.

11 	9 	Nico Rosberg 	11:35:07 	299.4
12 	4 	Felipe Massa 	11:54:32 	299.4
13 	10 	Lewis Hamilton 	11:57:37 	299.3
14 	3 	Fernando Alonso 	11:56:06 	298.9
15 	1 	Sebastian Vettel 	11:58:51 	298.6
20 	2 	Mark Webber 	11:55:27 	295.8
21 	7 	Kimi Räikkönen 	11:56:37 	295.1

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

Although this is only after FP3, pretty much similar top speed against the contenders. :D

#1075 Sakae

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 13:08

:well: P2 I guess is better than P3. Now the race.

#1076 weltmeister1995

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 13:48

Sad day for me,it should have be vettel on pole,but we should have a good chance tommorow.The warmer it is,the better is for us,because mercedes will suffer more with tyre deg.
Maybe Vettel can pass Hamilton already at the start,which would be perfect...

#1077 Massa_f1

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 13:53

Sad day for me,it should have be vettel on pole,but we should have a good chance tommorow.The warmer it is,the better is for us,because mercedes will suffer more with tyre deg.
Maybe Vettel can pass Hamilton already at the start,which would be perfect...


Yep If Seb gets a perfect start all should be good tomorrow.

#1078 encircled

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 13:57

A little adjustment with the gearing from other drivers. Still not bad for the RBR boys in comparison with the others. Curiously, Kimi is at the bottom of the speed trap.

3 	4 	Felipe Massa 	14:41:29 	302.1
7 	3 	Fernando Alonso 	14:40:45 	300.3
8 	10 	Lewis Hamilton 	14:54:24 	300.3
18 	1 	Sebastian Vettel 	14:53:56 	298.7
20 	2 	Mark Webber 	14:17:31 	297.7
21 	8 	Romain Grosjean 	14:33:38 	297.6
22 	7 	Kimi Räikkönen 	14:42:38 	294.1

http://www.formula1....speed_trap.html

Edited by encircled, 06 July 2013 - 13:58.


#1079 Sakae

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 13:57

Sad day for me,it should have be vettel on pole,but we should have a good chance tommorow.The warmer it is,the better is for us,because mercedes will suffer more with tyre deg.
Maybe Vettel can pass Hamilton already at the start,which would be perfect...

Me too. I have enough of downers. First mechanical down, now this - I need Seb to bring home bacon.

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#1080 lbennie

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 14:25

Mark would have got that pole i think if he hadn't have run into fernando in S3

#1081 weltmeister1995

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 14:30

As a possitive today,I see that the Red Bulls did close the gap to Mercedes on 1 lap pace.Without any mechanical problems tommorow there is a good chance for a 1-2 for Red bull,with Vettel winning and Alonso comes in third.
Vettel,Webber did have the best race pace,with Alonso"s ferrari coming next compering the Race pace.
I dream of this result:
1.Vettel
2.Webber
3.Button
4.Hamilton
5.Alonso
But its probably going to be like this:
1.Vettel or Hamilton(But hamilton will win it,just if he manage to keep Seb behind until the first pit stops)
2.Webber/Alonso
3.Kimi


#1082 encircled

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 14:37

Maybe the Bulls will try a two-stopper if they cannot jump Lewis after the first stop, but we'll see. Better if Seb can clear Lewis early though so hoping for a great start tomorrow. :)

#1083 Kelateboy

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 14:57


German GP: Sebastian Vettel says temperature rise cost Red Bull edge

"I was very happy in FP3 this morning, happy with the car, we didn't change much, but this afternoon I was struggling to bring it together, especially in the first part of the track," Vettel said.

"It was quite windy, we had wind from the back and the track was a bit warmer.

"The car wasn't bad, it wasn't awful through first sector, but the time didn't come.

"I tried to do the best I could in the next two sectors but it was not enough to get Lewis today."

"We were much closer than we were in Silverstone," he said. "We made some progress and we have confidence for tomorrow."

Mark Webber put the second Red Bull third on the grid and agreed with Vettel's assessment.

"It is very, very sensitive out there," he said. "We might have lost a bit in the first sector. It was tricky to find the rhythm we had in FP3, there was a shift in track temperature and it pulled us together a bit.

"On the long runs we are in good shape and in a good place to put pressure on [Mercedes] tomorrow."

#1084 Kelateboy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:45

I am not expecting Alonso or Massa to win though. They may have shown respectable race pace in FP2, but there are too many great drivers in front of them for them. For as long as Lewis, Vettel, Raikkonen and Webber do not get tangle up in the 1st corner, these drivers are the favorite to win the German GP.

#1085 SophieB

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 13:36

Posts deleted. Shut up about Lewis Hamilton, talk about the RB9.

#1086 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 13:47

YEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA another win for Vettel and the RB9 great consistency in the race from the car in terms of performance which is very encouraging.

#1087 Disgrace

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 13:49

Huge fine coming Red Bull's way for Webber's pitstop.

#1088 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 14:37

Big thanks to RBR team to make Seb's drive possible, especially after Hamilton's big speech having competitive car, or some media outlets - BIG FIST OVER FINGER (after quali yesterday). I really enjoy today's victory. It's very sweet. (And gearbox lasted!!!)

Edited by Sakae, 07 July 2013 - 14:39.


#1089 weltmeister1995

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 14:54

Yes baby we finally did it,well it should have be a 1-2 for red bull or maybe at the worst 1-3.Justice has been made with vettel winning it the german GP.He won the Canada,German GP this years for the first time,and now he need to brake the duck in Hungary,COTA,and job will be done.
Yet again we have a 35 points lead,fantastic.
Well done Vettel(P1),Webber(P7,bad luck)
:p :up:

#1090 John Player

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 15:01

Is Webber's car even an RB9?

#1091 Kelateboy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 15:02

Great win for Vettel and RBR. Vettel had to fight till the very end with faulty KERS, and just managed to eke out a very difficult race win at the end. The conditions do not favor RBR at all with the track temperature hovering in the 42C-45C range. Hottest race of the year. Vettel was not able to pull away from anybody throughout the race, which goes to show that the temperature really played a part. The safety car timing was great because it fell within Vettel's pit window.

Vettel and Webber starts were great. Had they been stucked behind Hamilton, I don't believe they have the pace to overtake. Even on fresh tyres, Vettel was having difficulties overtaking Hamilton on lap 45. Hamilton was on worn tyres and pitted 1 1/2lap later. Webber also had difficulties overtaking Gutierrez, which goes to show that this is not an easy track for overtaking.

Lotuses were the better car here but I thought they made a mistake in stopping Raikkonen for the 3rd time. I thought if Grosjean could extend the 1st stint on full fuel load to 14 laps (effectively 17 laps with qualifying), then Raikkonen should be able to get the primes on mid fuel load to last the distance. 30 laps was probably too much to ask from Raikkonen but when they stopped him on lap 50, his pace was still great with a lead of over 13s from Vettel.

Great result for Vettel at Nurburgring. It made up for the disappointment at Silverstone.

#1092 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 15:08

Is Webber's car even an RB9?

As far as I know it's a 2014 prototype.

#1093 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 15:10

Great win for Vettel and RBR. Vettel had to fight till the very end with faulty KERS, and just managed to eke out a very difficult race win at the end. The conditions do not favor RBR at all with the track temperature hovering in the 42C-45C range. Hottest race of the year. Vettel was not able to pull away from anybody throughout the race, which goes to show that the temperature really played a part. The safety car timing was great because it fell within Vettel's pit window.

Vettel and Webber starts were great. Had they been stucked behind Hamilton, I don't believe they have the pace to overtake. Even on fresh tyres, Vettel was having difficulties overtaking Hamilton on lap 45. Hamilton was on worn tyres and pitted 1 1/2lap later. Webber also had difficulties overtaking Gutierrez, which goes to show that this is not an easy track for overtaking.

Lotuses were the better car here but I thought they made a mistake in stopping Raikkonen for the 3rd time. I thought if Grosjean could extend the 1st stint on full fuel load to 14 laps (effectively 17 laps with qualifying), then Raikkonen should be able to get the primes on mid fuel load to last the distance. 30 laps was probably too much to ask from Raikkonen but when they stopped him on lap 50, his pace was still great with a lead of over 13s from Vettel.

Great result for Vettel at Nurburgring. It made up for the disappointment at Silverstone.

:up:

That's what I said - best moment of the race (other than crossing Finish line in P1) - ..and we are in T1, Vettel leads! Sweet.

#1094 Kelateboy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 15:12

Yes baby we finally did it,well it should have be a 1-2 for red bull or maybe at the worst 1-3.Justice has been made with vettel winning it the german GP.He won the Canada,German GP this years for the first time,and now he need to brake the duck in Hungary,COTA,and job will be done.
Yet again we have a 35 points lead,fantastic.
Well done Vettel(P1),Webber(P7,bad luck)
:p :up:

The lead to Alonso grew from 21pts to 34pts, while Vettel's lead to Hamilton grew to 58pts. I am especially interested in the margin to Hamilton as I believe he has the fastest car over a single lap and on a few circuits like Hungary and Singapore where overtaking is very difficult, MGP duo should be the prohibitive favorite for the wins. But if the RBR can handle the tyres here in the scorching 45C track temp, they should be competitive everywhere.


#1095 Sakae

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 15:16

Spa and Suzuka both look like a good deal to make impact by RBR.

#1096 encircled

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 15:38

@MauriceHamilton Newey: It wasn't a wear problem today but a thermal degradation one. All about having grip at the end of the race.



#1097 Kelateboy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 15:52

€30,000 fine for RBR for unsafe release of Mark Webber.

#1098 Kelateboy

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 16:02

@MauriceHamilton Newey: It wasn't a wear problem today but a thermal degradation one. All about having grip at the end of the race.

The mediums/supersofts have a lower optimum working temperature than hards/softs. A higher temperature would suit softs, but would have an adverse effect on the mediums. That is why in the much lower temperature on friday during FP1 and FP2, the mediums were great with Webber running 31 laps on the same set of mediums, and Rosberg registered his best lap time on his 24th lap or so in FP1. The same tyres were not that great in today's race. That is also the reason why Grosjean could get his softs to last 14 laps on full fuel load in his 1st stint.

Compared that to Bahrain, the 2nd hottest race of the year. They were hardly any issues with the hards used in the race despite the track temperature of 42C (reduced to 37C by the end of the race)

#1099 weltmeister1995

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 16:06

What is amazing its that the red bull car looks strong in all conditions.They are very fast in coller,warm conditions,they are good in rain(Changing conditions).
Really the other teams should be afraid of this fact!

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#1100 Sakae

Sakae
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  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 07 July 2013 - 16:10

€30,000 fine for RBR for unsafe release of Mark Webber.

What is average for past three seasons; anyone knows?

Edited by Sakae, 07 July 2013 - 16:10.