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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#151 H2H

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:40

i've always thought webber like the tail a bit loose, and seb liked it more planted.

can't remember where I got that from though.


I practically quoted him from the RB6 manual, of course Pre-Pirelli.

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You can see the slot under the nose, similar to the one seen on the RB8. Maybe the rear-facing nose slot gets fed from this, maybe there is another one behind.

Scarbs take on the C31 is well worth a read, and contains a good deal of info on the design RBR copied to a good extent. Good to see him and Autosport working togheter for the mutal benefit.

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...

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Edited by H2H, 07 February 2013 - 05:42.


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#152 H2H

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 05:57

Forgot to put the link to the Scarbs launch analysis of the RB8. Should fit the RB8B(razil)  ;)

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#153 sanjiro

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:44

I have read every variation of what MW and SV like over their years together.
Starting with claims they both liked the car set up the same way to one likes under-steer one over-steer and so on.

The only thing that has been clear to me is that since the move to Perelli tyres MW has struggled with rear grip troubles out of corners and heavy wear on his fronts
That is the pattern of someone who likes more over-steer than they are getting and try to compensate with bruit force.

But lets face it, we have no idea.
What is clear is that MW and SV DONT like the car set up the same way.
So dont worry about anything MW says about the car, wait till SV has a run before worrying that they may or may not need to make changes.

#154 H2H

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 11:02

But lets face it, we have no idea.


Indeed. So far RBR does focus on the basics and tries to check off a lot of points on a long list. It is no surprise that it goes better then last year because it is much more refined evolution and this goes for many other teams as well.

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A triple WDC on his way out...

So far it looks like a smooth day in the office, we will see what he has to say in public.

#155 H2H

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:12


... and a triple WDC after his smooth day in the office:

"I think the car's working very well. Obviously it's difficult to judge the speed, but it terms of reliability it was good and I feel pretty happy with the car so far," said Vettel.

"It's always nice to be on top but if there's one phase when it matters least, it's now.

"It's good for us now to do a lot of laps and to see whether the car's working.

"It's an evolution and I think we've done another step forward, but that's all we can say now."

He said the use of Jerez also made the times misleading. Pirelli earlier suggested that the Spanish track should be dropped from the F1 test rota unless it was resurfaced.

"It's impossible to give a judgement right now because I think people were playing with the fuel loads today," Vettel said.

"Plus it's the first test and it's Jerez, where the tyre degradation is quite big and tyres play a massive role. There are too many variables.

"Today it was nice to be back in the car and not much more than that. We shouldn't get excited in any way.

"Now is the time to do our homework. Maybe it's not the most exciting part of the season, but I had fun today, so it's not that boring."


From Autosport.

#156 plumtree

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:14

Jerez test day3 quotes - nothing noteworthy, which is a good sign at this stage.

http://www1.skysport.../12433/8478017/
"The first feeling is good and the car is working well. It's difficult to judge the speed, but in terms of reliability it looks pretty good. For today we accomplished what we set out to achieve - which was to put a lot of laps on the car.

http://f1elvis.com/red-bull/
Race Engineering Co-ordinator Andy Damerum: “Obviously today was Sebastian’s first chance to drive the RB9 and, as with Mark, the car behaved well. We were a little delayed getting out this morning because of a few changes we wanted to make, but it didn’t hamper progress and another 102 laps is very respectable. Today was about carrying on the work of the past two days, evolving the car and how it’s performing. We worked on set-up in the morning, did some aero work in the afternoon and also put in some longer runs to check durability and to continue assessing the tyres. Tomorrow, it’ll hopefully be more of the same”.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21369366
Horner aims to extend Red Bull 'halcyon period' (Youtube)

FWIW: Gary "Sam Michael was admiring the narrow sidepods and more aggressive undercut on the Red Bull."

Edited by plumtree, 07 February 2013 - 18:21.


#157 H2H

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 18:34

Thanks for the additional links, it all sounds good. Of course we can not expect a dominant car like in 2010. It will be important to be more competitive right from the start as one can not expect again that the fastest team shoots itself into their knees. Overall I have great faith in the team which has made huge strides in the last years in all areas. It had to and thankfully did so far.

Edited by H2H, 07 February 2013 - 18:39.


#158 GreenMachine

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 20:36

... it will be important to be more competitive right from the start ...


To be competitive, RB need reliability and speed (in which I also put tyre use).

Speed is difficult to judge right now, and will remain so until Melbourne. However it is looking good on the reliability front, so maybe we can tick that box.

#159 Obi Offiah

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 07:15

I'm surprised that Ted Kravitz wasn't aware that a late evolution of the RB8 also featured double ducts that undercut the exhaust. In his day 3 Note Book, he remarks upon it's appearance on the RB9 as a new development.

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#160 lbennie

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:19

I'm not, ted rarely offers anything of note unless it has to do with a mclaren.

He will probably widen his scope to include merc this year though.



#161 One

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:36

Given that it is an Infiniti car made by an Japanese company I guess those are to be blamed. I can not imagine that the driver wanted that bit there and this discussion proves that it does create attention and PR.

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RBR has surprised us in the last years pretty much always towards the last days of the test. Adrian said that they are a little bit on the backfoot due to the long titlefight and it would not surprise me if the most interesting areo bits will only hit the track in the last days of the tests and possibly only at the race weekend. If I recall correctly Adrian also talked a bit about the new front wing test and that they were not quite sure about it's handling/implications. Getting the wing to flex as much as possible for the L over D within the tighter ruleset is no mean feat and takes a great deal of development work which wasn't relevant to the WDC fight last year.

That theory would fit with the reported understeer by Gary and Mark but if they just bolted on an old, now 'illegal' FW on the car the second part of the theory falls apart. In this case the finetuning work at the rear could have considerably raised the level of downforce there, moving the C of P back. There is no question which scenario I prefer to be true. :)

P.S: I did a bit of reading on the older RBR cars of the current evolutionary line and it does actually clarify some aspects of the RB8/9. For example the double deck diffusor ducts are in the same location which gets now blown by the big S-duct tunnel, while the current Coanda exhausts targets the same area as the ducted exhaust of the RB7. If you keep the basics in mind it is quite logical - with a lot of hindsight and the solution right in front of your nose.

Scarbs wrote the article 'Red Bull RB7 – Sidepods and Cooling' a long time ago but it helps to understand the internal flow management

P.P.S: This cooling duct might be the reason of that bulge in the engine cover in front of the upper wisbone...

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I am not a particular Red Bull fan nor Newey fan, but everything what this team does is so tasty and great in enjoying the sport! Good work guys, I just hope that Red Bull will be beaten fair and Square at the last race of the season. I hope Lotus and Kimi will do that and if not Fernando and Ferrari, then Button and Mclaren and so on.

#162 H2H

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:23

I'm not, ted rarely offers anything of note unless it has to do with a mclaren.

He will probably widen his scope to include merc this year though.


Arguably autosport+ offers now the best tech coverage, with a nod going to the BBC and AMuS as well as to Matt Somerfield and Mark Gillan. Still it is a bit surprising as he mentioned Piola when talking about the Ferrari, it should be hardly news even around the paddock.

Once again Piola shows how important a wide and deep knowledge base is in F1, both for the engineers and the tech fans. From blown diffusors, pull-rods, nose vanes, full end-plate gills we had already all in the history of the sport but different rules, technological advances and reduced performance scope in other areas can make them far more attractive. It also shows that there is a lot of talent around the paddock, with old Minardi coming up with two of the innovations (at least partly) I mentioned.

It is needless to say that this is not Teds strongest area.

@One: I hope not but I always appreciate the sport (and tech) as a whole.

Edited by H2H, 08 February 2013 - 09:34.


#163 H2H

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 12:45


Looks good. So far RB9 might be car with the most km.

#164 apoka

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 20:28

I'm quite happy so far. We have seen nothing spectacular, but they did very solid runs and seemed to have few problems. If anything, that should give them enough data to build on.

There is also hope for a reliable RB9. Given that most cars are evolutions and will likely be close in performance, reliability could be the key to WCC/WDC.


#165 EvanRainer

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 22:56

2nd most total laps. I've seen exactly what I expected/wanted so I am happy.

So where is everyone's money on regarding what they will bring in the last Barcelona test?
DRD?
New diffuser?
Just an overall aero upgrade?

They are supposed to be bringing substantial updates.

Edited by EvanRainer, 08 February 2013 - 22:57.


#166 Zava

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 23:50

Tobias Grüner F1 ‏@tgruener
#F1 I heard Red Bull has booked #Jerez circuit on saturday for a film day. Curious how the RB9 looks like then.

I hope it's some sneaky stuff! :)

#167 H2H

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 07:41

2nd most total laps. I've seen exactly what I expected/wanted so I am happy.

So where is everyone's money on regarding what they will bring in the last Barcelona test?
DRD?
New diffuser?
Just an overall aero upgrade?

They are supposed to be bringing substantial updates.


I'm pretty sure we will see some considerable areo changes which might not be that big from a visual point of view in the key areas like FW, diffusor etc.

The big question is DRD. Two teams, Mercedes and Lotus (sort of) did test it here and a working one could often make the difference in a very close field. RBR has decided not to invest into a pull-rod suspension which seems to be a sign that they focus their ressources on the stuff which in their eyes has the biggest bang for the buck. DRD is a bit of a wild card. Personally I think that, rules permitting, we will see a functional DRD sooner or later. This is the march of technology and experience.

Edited by H2H, 09 February 2013 - 07:55.


#168 FPV GTHO

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 11:50

Pullrod front is curious. Ferrari at least have 2 years before the 2014 rules make them rethink it. Perhaps Red Bull are comfortable with how much control they have over the front end aero, as it seems the angle of the push/pull rod is being exploited more than the CoG changes and geometry.

I think if Red Bull were following a DRD they would run it as soon as possible. Unless they ran something last year that was unseen, like how their DDRS was, assumably they don't have any track experience with such systems, unlike Mercedes and Lotus who do and still can't sort it.

#169 Rikhart

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:27

Red bull did test a drd last year:

http://topsportracin...em-in-abu-dhabi

Edited by Rikhart, 09 February 2013 - 12:28.


#170 H2H

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:38

Red bull did test a drd last year:

http://topsportracin...em-in-abu-dhabi


Indeed. I personally think that we will more cars in Barcelona trying it out. The last days have been mostly about the basic stuff.

#171 EvanRainer

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 20:25

After all, no matter how difficult it may be to get it to work and how small the gains they may claim they can be, the DRD is the only largely undeveloped area in the current rules.

#172 plumtree

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:54

I don't know if this has been reported before, one minor point

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It looks like they tested pit stop light system‎ last week. The crew did a good job with the lollipop man last season. However, as the light system has pretty much become standard now and we noticed once the best team in that department hardly topped the list, it's no wonder they feel the need to adopt(or at least test) the system to be able to keep up with the progress of McLaren/Ferrari.

#173 One

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 11:37

I don't know if this has been reported before, one minor point

Posted Image

It looks like they tested pit stop light system‎ last week. The crew did a good job with the lollipop man last season. However, as the light system has pretty much become standard now and we noticed once the best team in that department hardly topped the list, it's no wonder they feel the need to adopt(or at least test) the system to be able to keep up with the progress of McLaren/Ferrari.


Interesting...

BTW I see tiny traces of flowvis at some distances places like endplates higher up, on the mid fin, close to diffuser, at around onders ide of crash structure... Look like the test team pumped flowvis in feeding channel of DRD and checke how flow pushed out from the system?

#174 Clatter

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:03

Does anyone know if they are still using their half sized KERS or moved to a full sized version?

#175 krapmeister

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 12:32

BTW I see tiny traces of flowvis at some distances places like endplates higher up, on the mid fin, close to diffuser, at around onders ide of crash structure... Look like the test team pumped flowvis in feeding channel of DRD and checke how flow pushed out from the system?


Possibly... or it's just remnants of flowvis from a previous application? It is supposed to be a bit of a barstard to clean up...

#176 bonjon1979a

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 16:44

Don't know if this has been posted yet:



how to make an f1 car,

#177 nada12

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 19:29

Does anyone know if they are still using their half sized KERS or moved to a full sized version?

Don't think there's any reliable info on that topic.

#178 One

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 20:10

Possibly... or it's just remnants of flowvis from a previous application? It is supposed to be a bit of a barstard to clean up...

:up:

#179 HoldenRT

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 22:09

Don't know if this has been posted yet:



how to make an f1 car,


Not bad, for a soft drinks company.

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#180 chumma

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 22:28

Not bad, for a soft drinks company.

McLaren aren't doing too bad for a phone company either right?

/new jokes please, the fizzy drink thing is about 4 years old and done to death. In other news, I thought the screens were banned in pre season testing?

#181 plumtree

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 22:50

McLaren aren't doing too bad for a phone company either right?

/new jokes please, the fizzy drink thing is about 4 years old and done to death. In other news, I thought the screens were banned in pre season testing?

Nope. I bet every team used screens. http://www.youtube.c...aRzps-nU#t=431s

#182 HoldenRT

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 23:04

McLaren aren't doing too bad for a phone company either right?

/new jokes please, the fizzy drink thing is about 4 years old and done to death. In other news, I thought the screens were banned in pre season testing?

Yes but I don't remember McLaren ever being disregarded as a racing team because of it, and Vodafone don't own McLaren.. no more than Marlboro owned Ferrari.

It's easy to react that way now.. but back in 2007 and 2008 it wasn't the case.

And that's why I'm gloating about it.

#183 JDo

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 23:17


/new jokes please, the fizzy drink thing is about 4 years old and done to death. In other news, I thought the screens were banned in pre season testing?
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure testing is fine for screens, it's only on race weekends that you cannot use them.

#184 H2H

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:42

Auto Motor Sport has an interesting piece on the exhaust concepts with some neat photos and good insight coupled with some flaws.

Posted Image

Der Auspuffstrahl wurde dazu missbraucht, den Diffusor seitlich abzudichten. Warum das so wichtig ist? Weil man so das Auto hinten anheben konnte. Der Diffusor darf am hinteren Ende nur 125 Millimeter über der Referenzebene liegen. Stellt man das Auto an, vergrößert sich der Abstand zur Straße. Der Trick schafft also eine größere Diffusor-Expansion. Funktioniert aber nur, wenn seitlich keine Luft einströmen kann. Dafür braucht man die Auspuffgase. Sie arbeiten wie seitliche Schürzen.


The most interesting bits:

Red Bull besser beim Beschleunigen, McLaren beim Bremsen

Die beiden Konzepte haben einen massiven Einfluss auf das Fahrverhalten. In schnellen Kurven sind die Unterschiede minimal. Doch bei Lastwechseln verändern sich die Fahreigenschaften je nach Auspuffkonzept. Ross Brawn erklärt: "Die Red Bull-Lösung ist besser beim Beschleunigen, weil die Auspuffgase genauer und schneller zum Zielort gelangen. Wenn der Fahrer auf dem Gas steht, spürt er den Effekt dementsprechend besser."

"Das McLaren-System hat Vorteile beim Gaswegnehmen. Da reduziert sich die Intensität des Auspuffstrahls. Der Einfluss auf den Anpressdruck geht also zurück. Deshalb müssen der Flaschenhals und die natürliche Strömung ihre Funktion voll entfalten. Und weil der beim Red Bull weniger stark ausgeprägt ist, gibt es Probleme mit der Bremsstabilität."

Das ist auch der Grund, warum Sauber von der eigenen Idee wieder abgekommen ist und sich der McLaren-Fraktion angeschlossen hat. Das größte Problem des Sauber von 2012 war eine Instabilität am Kurveneingang. Dafür kopierte Lotus den Red Bull-Auspuff. Hier glaubt man die Nachteile im Griff zu haben und von der besseren Traktion zu profitieren.


Brawns explanation seems to be quite logical and is close to what I have written earlier. Without the really fancy engine maps the engine will produce in certain corners not the same amount of gas as in the full throttle- ones. The simplier McLaren solution with the clean cokebottle was 'better' under braking and in the entry of a corner and certainly easier to get right. The RB8 Coanda does suffer a bit under said circumstances as it compromised it's cokebottle to get more out of the exhaust plume.

Red Bull-Auspuff passt zu Vettel-Fahrstil

Böswillige werden behaupten, Red Bull habe einen Vettel-Auspuff gebaut. Red Bulls Auspufflösung hilft am Kurvenausgang, dort wo Mark Webber stärker ist. Der Australier profitiert also nur minimal von den Vorteilen. Er leidet aber mehr unter einem nervösen Fahrverhalten am Kurveneingang als Vettel. Das war auch einer der Gründe, warum Webber in der ersten Saisonhälfte 2012 so stark war. Da hatte Red Bull sein Auspuffsystem noch nicht so perfektioniert. Der entscheidende Fortschritt gelang in Valencia. Und da schwang das Pendel Richtung Vettel um.

Dass Webber in Silverstone gewonnen hat, widerlegt die These nicht. Silverstone ist die Strecke, auf der am wenigsten gebremst wird. Deshalb traten die Defizite dort auch kaum zutage. Der Fairness halber muss man sagen, dass Newey an der fehlenden Bremsstabilität gearbeitet hat. Dafür sprechen die verkürzten Seitenkästen und die Kanäle, die noch früher beginnen. Beides unterstützt die Flaschenhalsfunktion.


This is the part where a strawman gets constructed just to be partly demolished. V2.0 of the RB8 (late-Barcelona) had a long ramp, sharp inlets and a short tunnel. Vettel did better then his teammate on race pace but still decided to go for V1.0 for Barhrain, the version in which the exhaust was high and inboard and did not give much of and additonal downforce and won. In this vanilla version the classic cokebottle with it's aerodynamic advantages was still strongly present. This does of course directly contradict the weak strawman erected by 'evil tongues' just like the performances after Korea when the RB8 got the shorter ramp.


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The evolution of the RB8 and the current RB9 show that RBR has pushed very hard indeed to get the best of both worlds. The ramp has become considerably shorter, the sidpods, the inlets and outlets have evolved and the RB9 has a much more pronounced coke-bottle then the early RB8.

Posted Image

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Edited by H2H, 16 February 2013 - 11:52.


#185 Zava

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:34

what I find weird about that Vettel-Webber argument, is that it was said about 2010, that around barcelona-monaco, Webber was more comfortable than Vettel with the simple (so not off-throttle) EBD, and Vettel was more comfy than Webber when they added off-throttle. main difference between no off throttle and off throttle is that you get downforce from the exhaust even when you are not on throttle -> when braking (and slow corners, but that's not the point)
so in 2010, according to these reports, Vettel needed more stability at braking and Webber could cope with it (and they tweaked the system to suit Vettel), and in 2012 Webber needs more stability at braking and Vettel can cope with it (and " Red Bull have built a Vettel-exhaust" again, even though it is totally the opposite :rolleyes: )

#186 H2H

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:35


Coanda explained by Enrique Scalabroni :up:

You can also appreciated the concept when you look at the evolution of the sidepod/tunnel inlet area of the early RB8 to the RB9....

#187 BillBald

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:41

what I find weird about that Vettel-Webber argument, is that it was said about 2010, that around barcelona-monaco, Webber was more comfortable than Vettel with the simple (so not off-throttle) EBD, and Vettel was more comfy than Webber when they added off-throttle. main difference between no off throttle and off throttle is that you get downforce from the exhaust even when you are not on throttle -> when braking (and slow corners, but that's not the point)
so in 2010, according to these reports, Vettel needed more stability at braking and Webber could cope with it (and they tweaked the system to suit Vettel), and in 2012 Webber needs more stability at braking and Vettel can cope with it (and " Red Bull have built a Vettel-exhaust" again, even though it is totally the opposite :rolleyes: )


Good point.

F1 can be frustrating. The people who know aren't telling, so we just have conflicting theories about what's happening.



#188 H2H

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 13:49

To be honest this story always amused me because it involved so much cherry-picking and distorted limited samples, especially in the 2010 story. The 'evil tongues' which turn pretty much everything possible in a certain direction have lost nothing of their stupidity. In any case the strawman makes no sense even for 2012 alone.

The only thing which matters is that RBR has always tried to make the car faster. The ever fancier engine maps and diffusor evolution in 2010 did so. The ducted exhaust blowing between the diffusor and the tyres did so. The new Valencia exhaust package did so just like the Korean one. And the RB9 is the logical evolution of the RB8 in exactly that area, pushing the old concept to new limits.

The comment by Brawn is entirely logical and has been raised IIRC by myself in the RB8 thread.

Edited by H2H, 16 February 2013 - 13:54.


#189 krapmeister

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 21:36

what I find weird about that Vettel-Webber argument, is that it was said about 2010, that around barcelona-monaco, Webber was more comfortable than Vettel with the simple (so not off-throttle) EBD, and Vettel was more comfy than Webber when they added off-throttle. main difference between no off throttle and off throttle is that you get downforce from the exhaust even when you are not on throttle -> when braking (and slow corners, but that's not the point)
so in 2010, according to these reports, Vettel needed more stability at braking and Webber could cope with it (and they tweaked the system to suit Vettel), and in 2012 Webber needs more stability at braking and Vettel can cope with it (and " Red Bull have built a Vettel-exhaust" again, even though it is totally the opposite :rolleyes: )


Huh?

IIRC the first half of 2012 - when Webber was more competitive and it seemed more comfortable with the RB8 than Seb - was the same as 2010? In that car was trickier as the downforce wasn't consistent (progressive might be more the better word?) especially when off throttle, which was why Seb tried the pre-season testing version of the exhaust setup (China?) as it gave a more consistent balance - and Seb more confidence - even though it was ultimately the slower setup?

FWIW I think Seb likes a mobile rear as long as he knows that it will stick ie. behaves in a consistent manner. But what I got from early 2012 was that rear downforce wasn't consistent which didn't give Seb confidence in how the car was going to behave and therefore unlock the speed which we know he can bring...

#190 ElDictatore

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:43

Scalabroni on 2013 roll centres

Really interesting how the grid has different approaches everywhere on the car, even without big regulation changes. Looking forward to Oz!

#191 H2H

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:29

Huh?

IIRC the first half of 2012 - when Webber was more competitive and it seemed more comfortable with the RB8 than Seb - was the same as 2010? In that car was trickier as the downforce wasn't consistent (progressive might be more the better word?) especially when off throttle, which was why Seb tried the pre-season testing version of the exhaust setup (China?) as it gave a more consistent balance - and Seb more confidence - even though it was ultimately the slower setup?

FWIW I think Seb likes a mobile rear as long as he knows that it will stick ie. behaves in a consistent manner. But what I got from early 2012 was that rear downforce wasn't consistent which didn't give Seb confidence in how the car was going to behave and therefore unlock the speed which we know he can bring...


I will make it short as I have to go.

That story in 2010 never convinced me for quite simple reasons. We all know that Seb was clearly the faster guy in the first half of 2010 just as he was in the second one. We don't exactly now when which version of the engine mapping was introduced, and on top of that the RB6 had the exhaust entering into the DD tunnels above the diffusor, which wasn't quite as aggressive and direct as the RB7 path. IIRC JA did wrote that the 'first' engine mapping use was around Barcelona. Now Mark is traditionally strong in Barcelona (S3!) and in Monaco and Seb had some serious car troubles in Spain as well as that famous crack in the Chassis. In Turkey Seb was faster again. It is in my opinion impossible to make up a big theory based on such dubious and limited information.

AMuS made are a mess of their 2012 story but in this case we have a lot more data and direct information to work with even if those Pirellis with their very short window make the reading also very difficult. Still this question in their interview was great:

Auto wurde immer besser

Red Bull-Technikchef Adrian Newey brauchte eine halbe Saison, bis er aus dem RB8 wieder ein Auto gemacht hat, das regelmäßig Rennen gewinnen konnte. Davon profitierte hauptsächlich Vettel. Der Champion erklärt warum: "Ich habe mich einfach wohler im Auto gefühlt. Die Balance passte besser. Am Anfang hat das nicht so zusammengepasst. Das hat uns vor allem in der Qualifikation Probleme bereitet. Im Rennen bügelt sich viel aus. Auch wenn du nicht hundertprozentig happy bist, kriegst du noch ein gutes Rennen hin. Deshalb waren wir im Rennen immer konkurrenzfähig. Ich war lange nicht glücklich mit dem neuen Auspuff, obwohl der mehr Abtrieb bringt als die alte Version, die ich in China gefahren bin. Mit den neuen Auspuff konnte ich mit dem Auto nicht so spielen wie ich wollte, wie es für meinen Fahrstil passt. Ich nehme den Speed am Kurveneingang mit. Mark ist besser am Kurvenausgang. Erst die letzte Coanda-Lösung war näher an dem dran, was wir letztes Jahr hatten."

#

roughly translated...

"I just felt more comfortable in the car ," Vettel explained.

"The balance was better for me than it was at the beginning, which caused problems especially in qualifying. In the race you can mend a lot. Even if you are not a 100% happy you can make a good race. For that reason we always have been competitive in the race. For a long time I was not happy with the exhaust, even though it brought more downforce than the old version. I couldn’t play with the car the way I wanted, to fit my driving style. I get my speed in the corners in the entry, while Mark is better at the exit. Only the last ’Coanda’-solution got me close to what we had last year," added Vettel.


Note that he doesn't say that Mark was better and in race pace he certainly wasn't. In qualifying, when it is more about pure pace and less about racecraft and where the engine maps are the most aggressive Mark could on average pull out faster laps. If we add in what Brawn said the following seems quite certain:

a) The Melbourne spec RB8 had troubles to consistently feed the tunnels which werer there to negate the drawbacks of the long ramp and ruined cokebottle. It was not progressive in the entry phase under braking where Seb gets his speed but behaved well at the exit where Mark does as under full throttle the long-ramped RB8 got a lot of downforce. 'Evil tongues' might call it a 'Webber'-spec.
b) From Melbourne onwards RBR worked very hard to better the strenghts and lessen the weak points of their rather unique approach. You had various minor tweaks of the exhaust package until we saw the big Valencia update, arguably best named V3.0. We saw for the first times a much more progressively shaped sidepod - tunnel inlet, new outlet positions and the tunnel seperation. At Silverstone the bulge was more marked and we could spot the the resonator chamber which might have been used before. Korea was a logical evolution, with a shorter, steeper ramp resulting in a smoother and pronounced coke-bottle. The RB9 is another step.
c) The McLaren approach, copied by almost all the other teams seems like the perfect fit for Seb as it has nowhere near those problems at the entry of the corner. So RBR developed a rare solution which did nicely counter the strenghts of their back-to-back WDC while playing to the strenghts of his teammate. :p

Of course the late RB8 conserved the bias towards the exit/acceleration phase compared the McLaren solution, at least according to Brawn words. Mark was indeed very competitive in Q3, with starts and race craft making once again the difference in points. And as Mark honestly stated the updates did not harm him, they made the car faster.

Edited by H2H, 17 February 2013 - 09:01.


#192 H2H

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 08:39

Added in this picture so that you can compare the late RB8 design from above to the ones posted of the RB9 and early RB8.

Posted Image

Compared to the late RB8 the ramp is now shorter and more outboard. The repositioning of the upper-front wishbone might also have to do with the internal aerodynamics as they would have compromised the design of the lower cooling outlets. Considering the importance of getting the Pirellis into the right window we must remain of course sceptical as it might be a rare case where mechanical considerations were considered to be more important then aero reasons...

Take a look

P.S: Will they also race with two rear tyre sensors on the floor?

Edited by H2H, 17 February 2013 - 08:59.


#193 H2H

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:26


Scarbs coming it handy to explain the nose slots of the RB9.

Posted Image

Well worth a read, just like his tech blog on Autosport.

#194 V3TT3L

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:40

Posted Image

Posted Image



#195 H2H

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 11:59

Now they have even sensors high up and inboard of the rear tyres...

And not just one but two it seems :lol:

You have to get to know those tyres, don't you?

Some interesting things going on in the central diffusor area, but I will have to wait for at least another good shot from a different angle.

Plus the sweet hammerhead infrared camera...

Got to love all those testing rigs the team have come up with.

Edited by H2H, 19 February 2013 - 12:09.


#196 FPV GTHO

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 12:49

Apparently there's a DRD using the same exit holes as last years DDRS with an inlet at the front of the swan neck mount for the beam wing.

#197 Zava

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 14:40

Apparently there's a DRD using the same exit holes as last years DDRS with an inlet at the front of the swan neck mount for the beam wing.

that was present on the car last year IIRC (if not on the red bull, then on others, like sauber), and had nothing to do with DRD.

Posted Image

#198 plumtree

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 15:03

I also read some suspect there is something going on around this inlet.

Posted Image

Additionally, they got rid of the monkey seat.

Edited by plumtree, 19 February 2013 - 15:45.


#199 Zava

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 15:13

ah, sorry, I didn't see that inlet, I thought FPV GTHO is just talking about the swan neck mount as DRD ducting. :blush:

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#200 plumtree

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 18:08

http://www1.skysport...tian-Horner-Q-A
What is this middle test particularly about?
CH: "We are learning more about the car and there are a lot of components we want to try out and learn more about the RB9. We will be doing pit-stop work to blow away the winter cobwebs as well. Every opportunity you get to run on track you have to capitalise on - these four days here are vital in our preparations for the first race."


http://www1.skysport...o/12870/8510351 Steady performance for Vettel (1:13)
There was a little software issue in the morning.


http://en.espnf1.com...ory/101057.html
"We know that the circuit rubbers up [in grip] over the course of the four days so the first day is probably the worst," "I think today we saw that the tyres were going off pretty quickly and didn't last a lot of laps. I think it was the same for everyone, but surely this circuit is a good indicator of whether you have a good car or not.

"At this stage it is very difficult to judge what we did compared to the rest of the teams in terms of fuel loads etc. Right now we are not that bothered because we have plenty of stuff going on in our garage."

"I still need to push hard and I enjoy that," "I think we were in good shape today but it depends on what fuel you are on. Usually it's a bit easier with less fuel to get the lap time, especially when it's cold. I'm quite happy with the car and with the balance and quite a bit happier than where we started last year."


http://f1elvis.com/red-bull/
Commenting on the morning, Race Engineering Co-ordinator Andy Damerum said: “It was a slow start, which was a bit frustrating. However, I don’t think we were alone in that. Looking at the lap times and number of laps done by other teams I think quite a few had a similar problem to the one we encountered. We managed to fix it just before lunch but it meant that our laps in the morning were effectively systems checks. Everything went better this afternoon, though, and we were able to get through quite a few items on our checklist and in the end managed 308km, so I’m quite pleased about that.”

“In the afternoon we were again working on some aero test items. The guys at the factory have been flat out since Jerez and as well as the things planned some time ago for this test there have been quite a few developments based on what we learned from Jerez. So there are plenty of things to get through here. Seb is driving again tomorrow.”

Edited by plumtree, 19 February 2013 - 18:49.