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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#201 encircled

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:18

Look at that rake.

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#202 apoka

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 17:00

What do you think about the test session today? For me, it's the first time since quite a while that I have a negative feeling. I don't think the are off the pace, but they do not look particularly strong either. Neither the short nor the long runs were particular convincing and they didn't really manage to get a proper race sim together. Tyre deg was awful even in Vettels hands - worse than in that last stint by McLaren/Perez.


#203 encircled

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 17:08

I have no idea to be honest.

#204 jstrains

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 17:15

RB pit stop gun

http://f1grandprix.m..._02_2013_52.jpg
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#205 plumtree

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 17:27

What do you think about the test session today? For me, it's the first time since quite a while that I have a negative feeling. I don't think the are off the pace, but they do not look particularly strong either. Neither the short nor the long runs were particular convincing and they didn't really manage to get a proper race sim together. Tyre deg was awful even in Vettels hands - worse than in that last stint by McLaren/Perez.

As a natural born pessimist, I concur your thoughts. Short run pace looks decent but today's race sim was rather underwhelming all around, especially compared to the last year's. Seb seemed quite frustrated after the stoppage. Let's see what he said to the press.
I can't believe only two more track days for some drivers and then the season starts.

On a more positive note, Ted on the new pitstop procedure practice ".. It seems to be working for Red Bull: I timed the stops and they averaged around 2.8-2.9 second mark, which is pretty good for starters. .." Even though they caused the red flag in the afternoon... :lol:

Edited by plumtree, 20 February 2013 - 17:30.


#206 plumtree

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 19:51

@ SV: "We had some issues with reliability today and we couldn't do as many laps as we wanted, but I think it's better that this kind of thing happens today rather than in Australia," "It was nothing dramatic, just small things. We had to stop the car once as we saw a small loss of pressure and then towards the end of the day it looks like after the stop the wheel wasn't on properly. So I had to stop again, cause the red flag and it just takes too much time to turn everything around, so we couldn't get out again."

"It's been very difficult I think; similar to all the other people struggling with the tyres! Struggling to make them last, I think you see fairly rapidly lap times go off, arguably it's a little bit too cold - it's not that cold - but arguable too cold for the tyres.", "This morning, we did a couple of short runs with new tyres and a little less fuel. This afternoon was a different story.", "Obviously it's fairly difficult to read because the tyres are such a dominant factor but I think we're there or thereabouts from what we can see."

"But the feeling is good, the balance is good and the car feels right, we had some issues with reliability which we need to fix and then we can hopefully go racing in Australia. I am pretty happy.


@ Race Engineering Co-ordinator Andy Damerum: "The stops we had today weren't too serious and we'll have everything sorted for tomorrow. We know where the issues are. However, though we would obviously much rather have had smooth run today we still accomplished a lot and even managed to slot in some more test items in the afternoon, which we put on the car at lunch time. So, while it wasn't an ideal day, we did get through most of what we wanted to. Seb now makes way for Mark tomorrow."


@ Random pictures
Pitstop http://cdn-3.motorsp...514213/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-7.motorsp...514167/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-0.motorsp...514170/s1_1.jpg
http://www.motorspor...ivo/0473141.jpg
Pitwall http://www.motorspor...ivo/0473161.jpg
Pilbeam in Lotus kit http://www.motorspor...ton/0473120.jpg
The inlet closed http://cdn-0.motorsp...513780/s1_1.jpg
"an" http://cdn-4.motorsp...513814/s1_1.jpg
http://www.f1fanatic.../02/MG_8757.jpg
http://www.motorspor...ton/0473110.jpg
http://www.motorspor...ton/0473053.jpg
http://cdn-1.motorsp...514211/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-4.motorsp...514194/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-9.motorsp...513779/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-9.motorsp...513889/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-4.motorsp...513594/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-3.motorsp...513603/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-6.motorsp...513926/s1_1.jpg
http://cdn-5.motorsp...513925/s1_1.jpg


+ If you missed the program or don't have Skysports,
Autosport Awards 2012 - Highlights (Cut on RBR guys)

Edited by plumtree, 20 February 2013 - 20:12.


#207 H2H

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:10

Look at that rake.

Posted Image


Do you now if that pic was taking in a braking zone? In any case I have seen quite a few pics with a similar amount of rake. In simple terms the more rake they can get away with the better....

Certainly the RB9 is a big step compared to the early RB8 and it is no surprise that Seb is more comfortable with the car. Mind you the guy was leading the WDC with a car in which he didn't feel that well.

Lots of interesting details on the car, love the way they fitted the turning vanes on top of the sidepods in easily swappable modules. RBR is certainly pushing hard in all areas and that solution makes perfect sense for testing.

Edited by H2H, 20 February 2013 - 20:15.


#208 encircled

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:19

Sorry mate, I cannot answer that one.

#209 H2H

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 20:34

No problems mate. Love the way they blow the starter hole and the work around that area. Have to check out some other cars to compare it.

Nice collection of great pics, plumtree. I saw some novel angles, and love the various shots from above.

Edited by H2H, 20 February 2013 - 20:36.


#210 MP422

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 23:11

What do you think about the test session today? For me, it's the first time since quite a while that I have a negative feeling. I don't think the are off the pace, but they do not look particularly strong either. Neither the short nor the long runs were particular convincing and they didn't really manage to get a proper race sim together. Tyre deg was awful even in Vettels hands - worse than in that last stint by McLaren/Perez.


One can only hope, but i doubt it. They will be the team to catch.

Edited by MP422, 20 February 2013 - 23:12.


#211 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 01:58

Look at that rake.

Posted Image

Our floor is totally not suss Mr Scrutineer!

At long as it passes the tests, I guess it is not blatant cheating...certainly doesn't help Marussia or Caterham that they don't have the kind of resources to be able to throw cash at flexy wing/floor technology. :)

Although the car is braking I guess, so not so fair comparison.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 21 February 2013 - 01:59.


#212 HoldenRT

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 06:21

I don't judge laptimes in testing anymore. Haven't for many years but yeah.. every year it seems more of the same.

What's clear is that McLaren, Ferrari and Redbull should all have good cars.. with advantages which vary circuit to circuit. And also, even if one team is behind in quali.. the race pace will be close and about track position and a good start etc.

And from testing itself.. it's hard to judge anything.. but the comments of trackside observers.. who talk about things like certain cars being good with traction.. or good in braking.. or looking stable and planted.. these are the things that seem to help indicate a good car or not. Comments about Redbull seem good in this area.. and you'd expect that.. since they've been winning championships the last few years. McLaren looks good too.. but I guess in a way.. I don't even want to know. As long as you know there is no major problems.. it's a nice surprise to find out the true order in the first race weekend.

#213 H2H

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:28

Posted Image


Spot the difference...

Posted Image

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There are certainly some, I will just mention that now we the big wishbone with the driveshaft seems to be no longer angled but straight. The side vents have also a different form and look smaller but we have to wait to see what happens in hot races. The diffusor is basically the same, we will see what RBR has in store there. Love the slight crest on the floor inside the right rear tyre. As the RB8 is the Monza version the beam wing is also not as steep.

Posted Image

RB9

Overall it really cries 'evolution' pretty much every time you look at it. In any case I have a little doubt that RBR will be competitive next season.


And the most important thing: There is no I in TEAM.

Edited by H2H, 21 February 2013 - 19:54.


#214 plumtree

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Posted 21 February 2013 - 19:57

@ Mark Webber: "We had a pretty good run today, we're learning plenty, so a positive outing for us. Overall the car ran smoothly and once again we amassed a huge amount of data for the guys back at the factory to go through. We'd like to get a bit more mileage tomorrow in the dry, but that doesn't look like it's going to happen, it looks like it will be wet."

"As usual at tests, the question of the pecking order comes up all the time but, honestly, I have no idea. There are a few quick cars out there, but in winter testing it's so hard to say if anyone's better than anyone else, especially with the tyres going off the way they are - you're losing four or five seconds over the course of a stint, so figuring out who's doing what is pretty difficult. All we can do is keep pushing, keep developing and keep our eyes fixed on the first race."

@ Race Engineering Co-ordinator Andy Damerum: "After the small problems we had yesterday, we had a very satisfying day. The car was reliable throughout and we got through the full programme. We concentrated on test items in the morning and then obviously, looking at the times, got through some long runs in the afternoon during which we tried to get as much information as possible on the tyres. It's a tricky business because it was pretty cold today but that's the nature of the beast here. We don't often get temperatures like this during the season but it can happen at places like the Nürburgring. Silverstone and Spa, so all the information is valuable. As for tomorrow, well, the weather forecast looks pretty bad, so we'll see just have to see what greets us in the morning and go from there."


(Test lap times mean nothing, we don't know fuel level / which tyre they used, etc.) Just for having a look.
2013 Day6 http://i.imgur.com/nM00Z6j.png (Vettel vs Perez)
2012 Day6 http://i.imgur.com/pMZag8i.png (Vettel vs Hamilton? - not a race sim)
2013 Day7 http://i.imgur.com/ZEjJp2u.png (Webber vs Grosjean vs Button?)
2012 Day7 http://i.imgur.com/PZFi07V.png (Webber vs Button? vs Schumacher)

***

GONE IN 2.5 SECONDS http://www.infiniti-...021243320151896

#215 JDo

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:08

[quote name='H2H' date='Feb 21 2013, 20:28' post='6136908']

Posted Image

Wow, it looks to me like there is a duct running to the base of the rear wing end plate, then possibly blowing toward the wheels. Perhaps to assist in sealing the diffuser?? Your thoughts?


#216 H2H

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 08:16

Wow, it looks to me like there is a duct running to the base of the rear wing end plate, then possibly blowing toward the wheels. Perhaps to assist in sealing the diffuser?? Your thoughts?


I think you mean the left push-rod or a wishbone to the right. Not that I didn't see things which were not what they seemed ;)

We are trained to look for the right patterns and our evolution has proven that is much safer to assume that something which looks like a lion is indeed one and be wrong then being wrong the other way around...

Keep in mind that this is the Monza setup, so they should also run a somewhat lower rake, making the difference between the angle of the driveshaft of the RB8 and RB9 look bigger.

Edited by H2H, 22 February 2013 - 10:50.


#217 JDo

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 10:10

I hadn't realised that was the Monza spec car.

I was looking at the drive shaft (knowing that it is sheathed) and the way it meets at the brake duct, then it looks like there is a bulge that heads down that final part of the end plate on either side. Never mind just losing the plot and seeing stuff they isn't there.

#218 Mc_Silver

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 13:16

I'm afraid Red Bull will start the season with at least 0.5tenths of a second advantage to its nearest rival.

#219 HoldenRT

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:21

Is that based on anything or just a hunch or a fear?

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#220 Mc_Silver

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 16:30

Is that based on anything or just a hunch or a fear?


Just gut feeling :well:

#221 SCUDmissile

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 18:49

Posted Image

RedBull with Ferrari style nose slot, or just illusion? from another forum.

#222 Zava

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:06

Posted Image

RedBull with Ferrari style nose slot, or just illusion? from another forum.

:lol: here we go. red bull is ""copying"" ferrari, even though they had an inlet on the underside of the nose already on the RB7 and RB8, and definitely needed an inlet on the underside of the nose to make the sauber style nose duct (spotted at the launch) work.

Edited by Zava, 22 February 2013 - 19:09.


#223 SCUDmissile

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 19:16

:lol: here we go. red bull is ""copying"" ferrari, even though they had an inlet on the underside of the nose already on the RB7 and RB8, and definitely needed an inlet on the underside of the nose to make the sauber style nose duct (spotted at the launch) work.

Wasn't implying RedBull were copying anyone. The first time I had seen a slot like the one on the RB9 was on the F138. Which is why I asked if it was in a similar style to the Ferrari one. I did not see those slots before, but they don't look as big as the one onthe car in the pic. Why so defensive? RBR have been trendsetters for god knows how long...

#224 encircled

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 20:50

Looks like they put the monkey seat back

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Edited by encircled, 22 February 2013 - 20:52.


#225 Absulute

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 22:05

I'm afraid Red Bull will start the season with at least 0.5tenths of a second advantage to its nearest rival.


Half a tenth? That's barely anything.

#226 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 00:11

Testing has been going rather nicely so far, am I the only one with a feeling that when we get to Oz we'll turn up with an absolute rocket a la 2011 when no one had an answer at all.

#227 weareracing

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 00:26

I think the Red Bull looks stunning and will be very competitive, a double 4-in-a-row World Championships PLUS a contract extension for Mark :up:

#228 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 02:42

I dont care if Webber has a crap year overall, as long as he can at least get a podium finish in Australia.

#229 apoka

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:07

Testing has been going rather nicely so far, am I the only one with a feeling that when we get to Oz we'll turn up with an absolute rocket a la 2011 when no one had an answer at all.

Maybe, I'm a bit pessimistic, but I don't have that feeling at all - my feeling is that 3-5 teams will be very close and able to fight for wins in the first races. On the positive side, I believe that the team has become stronger each year and could well challenge for WCC without a car advantage or their opponents failing (e.g. McLaren last year).


#230 lbennie

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 10:42

Maybe, I'm a bit pessimistic, but I don't have that feeling at all - my feeling is that 3-5 teams will be very close and able to fight for wins in the first races. On the positive side, I believe that the team has become stronger each year and could well challenge for WCC without a car advantage or their opponents failing (e.g. McLaren last year).


this

at an operational level they really are slick at the moment i think.



#231 V3TT3L

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:57

Posted Image

Found something intriguing in the nose.
The paint is cracking close to the step.
Maybe the nose is flexing and cracking the paint... or it was just a bad lay of coat / primer.

Edited by V3TT3L, 24 February 2013 - 12:58.


#232 repete

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 14:27

that nose is not from an RB9...or RB8

My guess its from their show car, as it looks like an rb6 nose, but has the infinity logo. Its probably put on the car for transport or something.

Edited by repete, 24 February 2013 - 14:31.


#233 chumma

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 21:17

JoseLuisF1: Pino Allievi is impressed by Red Bull RB9, says he has RB8 stability and degrades the compounds less than rivals

#234 Clatter

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:49

Has there been any news as yet regarding their KERS? Are they still using their smaller version?

#235 Absulute

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 16:03

Posted Image

Found something intriguing in the nose.
The paint is cracking close to the step.
Maybe the nose is flexing and cracking the paint... or it was just a bad lay of coat / primer.


It's also cracked at the tip and is missing the wing.

Clearly not a new nose.

#236 apoka

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 19:35

JoseLuisF1: Pino Allievi is impressed by Red Bull RB9, says he has RB8 stability and degrades the compounds less than rivals

How did he come to the conclusion that the RB9 has less deg?


#237 Mc_Silver

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 20:33

How did he come to the conclusion that the RB9 has less deg?


It is easy bet to say Red Bull is on rails, has the most downforce, less deg than others etc. etc. There were the same talks about them last year in testing as well. Also remember, Jose Luis was always praising Ferrari about how fast they will be and many other positive news. Then after OZ he disappeared :D

Edited by Mc_Silver, 25 February 2013 - 20:34.


#238 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:25

It is easy bet to say Red Bull is on rails, has the most downforce, less deg than others etc. etc. There were the same talks about them last year in testing as well. Also remember, Jose Luis was always praising Ferrari about how fast they will be and many other positive news. Then after OZ he disappeared :D


Whatever you think about this guy, that's simply not true. On the contrary, he was quoted so much in the Ferrari thread because it was he who brought the latest bad news. And he did not disappear at all, people just stopped quoting him over time, because what he said turned out to be too cryptic and confusing in the end, to the point of being indeterminable whether he did know anything at all.

Edited by KnucklesAgain, 26 February 2013 - 07:26.


#239 H2H

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 20:36


The starts and the KERS are certainly things RBR took a good look at. Ferrari showed the rest just how much of a difference good starts could make and KERS did bite RBR quite often. With the great improvement of KERS over the years the trade-offs of a full one should be smaller then they used to be...

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#240 Vesuvius

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 05:45

Turun Sanomat reports Mercedes has counted that Red Bull is now a second faster/lap than they were at brazil last year. Also TS says Red Bull has never done testing under 50kg of fuel onboard so far.

#241 HoldenRT

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:39

It all doesn't matter much until Q3 in Melbourne.. but it's nicer to hear that.. than hear that it's a pig that keeps locking the rear brakes under braking.. and understeers on entry and oversteers on exit. :p

#242 H2H

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:27



Gary's view:

Red Bull

The world champions' form is hard to read. Red Bull's headline lap times have not been that impressive - world champion Sebastian Vettel was fifth fastest overall in Barcelona last week - and he has not done a proper race-simulation run that corresponds with his low-fuel times.
Red Bull

Red Bull: Not as happy with where they are as they need to be

Normally, you can get a sense of a car's pace by comparing the headline lap time with those done at the start of a race-simulation run.

There should be about seven seconds between the two, so if there isn't it either means the quick time was done with more fuel on board than was necessary or the race run was not representative in some way.

So Red Bull confuse me a little at the moment. Obviously, they will be quick - but the question is how quick? I don't think they are as happy with where they are as they need to be.

They will have some developments at this week's test and that is going to be important for them.




#243 300KPh

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:45

redbull under newey always emerge as winners eventually no matter what diffculties they face at the start of the season(2010,2012).

#244 One

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 12:55

Gary's view:


It reminds me of Ferrari the last year.

#245 EvanRainer

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 13:45

I read that article by GA he said pretty much absolutely nothing.

#246 plumtree

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 14:31

Turun Sanomat reports Mercedes has counted that Red Bull is now a second faster/lap than they were at brazil last year. Also TS says Red Bull has never done testing under 50kg of fuel onboard so far.

I guess he's quoting from this article? http://www.auto-moto...13-6669090.html

(Google translate) Pedro de la Rosa's first question shows who in the circle of favorite s is a big favorite: "Do you know how much fuel had Vettel in his 1:22.1 minute lap on board?" Ferrari believes that the world champion was out with at least 50 kilograms. Because Red Bull almost never tested under this amount of fuel. Unless at the end of a race simulation, but then the tires are already over the hill.

So far, Red Bull has not yet managed fastest time. Vettel did not look like one, which was a record of hunting. When Mercedes reckoned that the Red Bull is compared to GP Brazil 2012 got faster by one second. The confidence is noted all parties. "We are completely satisfied with our car," confirmed team consultant Helmut Marko.

Seb told the press he did some low-fuel runs in the morning of the 2nd day. It could be a relative term though.

As for @JoseluisF1, as his tweet itself says it's from Pino Allievi. I see Joseluis isn't known for his accurate reporting and am not saying Pino Allievi's credibility should be any good (I have no idea). I don't even agree with his view but it'd be unfair to ridicule him for that.

Anyway I don't buy any of them at this point.

Edited by plumtree, 27 February 2013 - 14:35.


#247 H2H

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 17:11


Yup. AMuS seems to be the source in both cases...

Favorit Red Bull mit Fragezeichen

Bis jetzt hat Red Bull noch keine Tagesbestzeit geschafft. Sebastian Vettel wirkte auch nicht wie einer, der auf Rekordjagd aus war. Bei Mercedes rechnet man, dass der Red Bull im Vergleich zum GP Brasilien 2012 um eine Sekunde schneller geworden ist. Die Selbstsicherheit ist allen Beteiligten anzumerken. "Wir sind mit unserem Auto rundum zufrieden", bestätigte Teamberater Helmut Marko.

Am zweiten Testtag schlichen sich jedoch erste Pannen ein. Ein Mal brach der Hydraulikdruck zusammen, ein Mal lockerte sich ein Rad. Kurz davor hatte Vettel einen Boxenstopp simuliert. Marko glaubt, dass Vettel sehr schwer zu schlagen sein wird: "Er ist noch stärker als im Vorjahr. Jetzt kommt zum Speed und zur Rennintelligenz die Abgeklärtheit hinzu."

Ein Rückschlag ist die Nachricht der FIA, dass die Motorkennfelder dem Stand von 2012 entsprechen müssen. Renault ging davon aus, dass man bei Null beginnen könne. Man darf annehmen, dass Red Bull und Renault die Motorsoftware für die optimale Auspuffwirkung maßschneidern wollten. Und in diese Richtung wurde in Jerez und Barcelona auch getestet. Jetzt gilt Kommando zurück. Da wurde wertvolle Testzeit verschwendet.


Personally I'm not so much interested into the laptimes, especially since the tyre issue was so big. Overall the big boys at RBR seem to be very confident. If I look back at 2012 RBR was on the backfoot due to exhaust isssues for a long time and made a car which went against the driving style of their back-to-back WDC. They clawed their way back impressively and were very reliable bar the KERS and the alternators supplied by MM. Operationally only Ferrari was better. So as a team they have become much stronger. They have also the strongest driver-lineup of the top teams of the last few years.



#248 jstrains

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 04:28

AMuS on the reason for the rake of Red Bull. They say it is Newey´s specialty and should compensate the diffusor requlations

http://www.auto-moto...ng-6686824.html

Posted Image

#249 FPV GTHO

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 06:45

I thought everyone would have their head around the suspension rake by now.

#250 H2H

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Posted 28 February 2013 - 11:46


The article does offers little new but is a nice summary. There is no simple 'trick' behind the aero configuration of the latest RBR cars but a vast amount of brainpower and work.

So far I did not see big chances on the RB9.