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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#301 muramasa

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 18:02

OK, maybe the previous picture of the new nose was not the best, looks better on this one:
Posted Image

still I like the launch spec more, if it has to be stepped.

Posted Image

Posted Image

http://pub.ne.jp/hid...ntry_id=1710004 & http://komekami.saku...ds/P1030937.jpg
via google


looks nothing but shinkansen to me :well:

so was launch version already but this new ver is even more so

shinkansen :drunk:



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#302 Zava

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Posted 02 March 2013 - 21:36

the old one was more of a shinkansen for me, with the step being narrower at the front and stuff


speaking about the old nose, some photos of today's gallery on a hungarian site shows the car running the old one, I'm not 100% sure but these seem like that:

Posted Image

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the gallery

#303 V3TT3L

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:02

looks nothing but shinkansen to me :well:

shinkansen :drunk:

That's a very good comparison... people say RB09 run over rails :lol:

Edited by V3TT3L, 03 March 2013 - 04:04.


#304 BigCHrome

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 04:57

That's a very good comparison... people say RB09 run over rails :lol:


I just hope it doesn't average the same speed over a lap.

#305 muramasa

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 18:04

the old one was more of a shinkansen for me, with the step being narrower at the front and stuff

yea maybe you're right.

somehow to me depending on angle new one look more of shinkansen and old one less
and vice versa :p

That's a very good comparison... people say RB09 run over rails :lol:

:lol: :love: :lol:



#306 apoka

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 18:44

Vettel says that RB didn't tick all the boxes: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/105827

"It was extremely difficult to read some set-up changes and find a good direction with the car because the tyres were simply not good enough."

#307 plumtree

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 19:23

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21644153

"Mark Webber said on Saturday that he had hoped the warmer temperatures finally experienced in Barcelona would have improved the extreme levels of degradation teams had been experiencing on the tyres, but that the degradation was still 'massive'. But Pirelli motorsport director Paul Hembery says the situation will improve once the teams get to the warmer temperatures at races. 'As with previous winter tests, the degradation will be reduced (at races),' he said. 'The teams tested the (new) medium compound in Germany last year without issue.'"

"The Red Bull, with Sebastian Vettel at the wheel, is currently running in 'old-spec' - i.e. without the new front and rear wings that the team tried out with Mark Webber on Saturday. It's possible they will be doing a back-to-back test on the two different aerodynamic specifications. Or that the results with the new parts were not positive."

Judging from Seb's answers, I think it's close to the latter and the excessive tyre wear, despite the reasonable track temperature, not only kept them headscratching even further but made them start questioning whether warmer weather would actually solve the degradation problem as much as they presumed.

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/102195.html

"We would love to have had the opportunity to work more on the set-up and read the changes but the tyres were not very consistent so I think everyone was struggling with that,"

"You always tend to think that [there won't be big gains]but then the people from the aero department turn out with some new parts and there's always going to be a step. I think the target is there to really improve the car by a lot, use the time in the races that we have but for now for sure it's to understand a little bit more with the new parts that we put on the car and find the right direction."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21648155

"The last two days the track and weather were better but the tyres were still poor. You get one lap and then they go off. We need to look through the data to understand a little bit more.

"We never had a winter that was less conclusive than this one. It is impossible to read the pace of the car and then to make us the favourites is not easy."

http://www.infiniti-...021243324295995

Race Engineering Co-ordinator Andy Damerum said: “We had a good day to finish off winter testing. We had the best conditions of the pre-season so we were able to get quite a lot done. We started with a whole session of data gathering today on some of the components we had put on the car. It was a tricky day because we were evaluating multiple aerodynamic elements, so it was pretty busy work. But not too bad for the final day.

Not to sound like an alarmist but the least positive messages came in on the final day after testing the latest update wasn't what I would have liked to have. Anyway, eleven days to go!

Edited by plumtree, 03 March 2013 - 19:57.


#308 One

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:22

the old one was more of a shinkansen for me, with the step being narrower at the front and stuff


speaking about the old nose, some photos of today's gallery on a hungarian site shows the car running the old one, I'm not 100% sure but these seem like that:

Posted Image


Having hard time trying to imagine a duck which picks up my wooden stock that I through and brings it back to me. Like a dog usually does... :lol:

#309 showtime

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Posted 03 March 2013 - 23:34

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21644153

Judging from Seb's answers, I think it's close to the latter and the excessive tyre wear, despite the reasonable track temperature, not only kept them headscratching even further but made them start questioning whether warmer weather would actually solve the degradation problem as much as they presumed.

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/102195.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21648155

http://www.infiniti-...021243324295995

Not to sound like an alarmist but the least positive messages came in on the final day after testing the latest update wasn't what I would have liked to have. Anyway, eleven days to go!


I don't think RB is in problems at all. Vettel would like to have a clear image of how his car will behave and how good it is compared to the others but with these tyres and conditions that was impossible. He sounded to me like he was a bit upset / unease with the fact of not having everything under control. I expect RB to be the best car again by Melbourne but they might be surprises...

#310 HoldenRT

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 01:41

The whole point of testing something.. even away from racing.. is to lock all of the other factors or variables in place.. and then isolate that one thing that's different.. and trying to have everything else 100% the same. And do back to back comparisons and see where the positives and weaknesses are for each thing.

And with the tyres and the lower temperatures.. this is impossible. So it doesn't matter if you have the fastest car or the slowest car.. it's impossible to be 100% sure about any conclusions.. when the testing of those parts itself is so unreliable. An outlap and one flying lap isn't enough to be able to draw solid conclusions. So it's easy to see how Vettel.. or all of the drivers could be frustrated.

It's not that big of an issue though.. because testing is reduced as it is. And last year.. Redbull, Ferrari etc.. they managed to improve the car all season long just fine.. without any proper testing. They turn up to the weekends.. see how things react from race to race and go from there. The tyres should be better during the race weekends. And the teams.. the top teams.. all seem to be able to manage fine with CFD, simulators and limited Friday testing. These cars are already very planted.. most teams could have probably turned up in Melbourne 3 weeks ago.. and still had a good race. It's just that they are all chasing perfection and always want more speed.

#311 aray

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 03:48

Vettel playing down-beat to keep expectation in check....but i expect them to be fastest in Oz still.....

#312 Sakae

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:13

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21644153

Judging from Seb's answers, I think it's close to the latter and the excessive tyre wear, despite the reasonable track temperature, not only kept them headscratching even further but made them start questioning whether warmer weather would actually solve the degradation problem as much as they presumed.

http://en.espnf1.com...ory/102195.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/21648155

http://www.infiniti-...021243324295995

Not to sound like an alarmist but the least positive messages came in on the final day after testing the latest update wasn't what I would have liked to have. Anyway, eleven days to go!

...Eleven days; right, but to do what, if they didn't completed testing, and don't have all necessary data? I don't think Sebastian has habit to exadurate, but situation seems rather worrisom, at least for a while. You can have best car on the grid without tires, but once you put your shoes on, and they negate rest of the equipment, what's left? We saw last year what Pirelli has done to Mercedes, dragging them down into sewer, and Merc could never correct their design whole season. No, situation is quite volatile, and we will see probably some really bad races, at least at the begginning.

#313 denthierry

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:39

I have this stronger and stronger gut feeling that none of the Red Bull's will be on the front row come Melbourne. Them testing last years front wing on the very last day of testing (yesterday) is the last clue i've had confirming that feeling. The tone of the comments (both from team members, F1 pilots and journos) also changed quite a bit between first tests and last one.

That said, over the span of a season and given their record over the past years, they're still the team to beat for the WCC/WDC. It's just going to be even harder than last year as, as could be expected, some new rules this year have taken away some the advantages they've had last year ànd it wouldn't be much of a surprise to anyone anymore if come Melbourne we all realise both Mercedes and Ferrari have made a step forward.

#314 HoldenRT

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 07:44

To be infront of Redbull, Mercedes would have had to make more than a step forward, they'd need 2 or 3 steps forward. And even if that were the case in qualifying.. there is also race pace.. which I can't imagine Redbull struggling.. the car lacks straightline speed but it's always pretty stable in the corners. Melbourne is a heavy braking circuit like Canada and all reports are that Redbull are the strongest in terms of late braking. Rules changes wise.. the DRS being only on the straights could hurt them, because they can't get on the DRS early out of each corner.. but in the race, they wouldn't suffer because of that.

I like the unpredictability though.. some mixed results would be nice. Some unpredictable races.. and a balanced championship.

#315 FPV GTHO

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 09:13

Well if the DRS restrictions hurt Red Bull, which I think they will, I think they'll hurt Mercedes potentially more due to how their double DRS blew the front wing, and therefore allowed a more balanced low downforce setting than a traditional DRS setup like which Red Bull ran.

#316 repete

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 15:21

i dont think RB will be on the front row. Seems like people just expect them to be fastest. They werent even the fastest car last year. People just have the idea that Newey touched it, must be god-like then. The car has done nothing in testing to even suggest its the fastest, but somehow everyone thinks its tenths up.

#317 EvanRainer

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 15:27

Maybe you should pay closer attention to F1 instead of writing drivel. People don't "just" expect them to be on top. There are a lot of very real reasons for why RBR is on top every year. They are the best team, with the biggest budget. They are development leaders in so many areas of the car and they have had had the best grip on the current rules.

And what do you mean "the car has done nothing in testing"? What do you think testing is, hotlapping for the benefit of fanboys on a forum?

#318 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 17:05

Long AMuS article about RB9, focusing on the exhaust and map controversy. I translated it in the map thread here.

#319 repete

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:06

Maybe you should pay closer attention to F1 instead of writing drivel. People don't "just" expect them to be on top. There are a lot of very real reasons for why RBR is on top every year. They are the best team, with the biggest budget. They are development leaders in so many areas of the car and they have had had the best grip on the current rules.

And what do you mean "the car has done nothing in testing"? What do you think testing is, hotlapping for the benefit of fanboys on a forum?

I pay very close to F1, moreso than most on here apparently. And yes, people do just "expect" them to be on top. It was the same last year. Lots of people just kept saying that RB was looking strong and stable. What happened? Car wasnt what many thought it would be. Could easily happen again this year.

I agree, RB is on top cause they are the best team, thats why they won last year. They did not have the fastest car, nor the most reliable car. They had a solid car, run by the best team.

What do i mean "the car hasnt done anything in testing"? Exactly what it states. The car has not shown anything to say that it is the Best car as has been repeated numerous times. Of course hotlapping is not what testing is about(could be part of the program though). Who said that? I did not, you brought it up trying to big up your argument though.

The car will be at the forward end of the grid, thats a given. But the fastest? The car its based off of wasnt even the fastest. So what proof is there that this new car is the fastest? A hunch cause the best team built it? You cant take anything for granted in F1.

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#320 fabr68

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:07

Sounds like serious sand-bagging to me.

#321 jstrains

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:12

Red Bull not happy with the car

http://www.auto-moto...ff-6741313.html

http://www.auto-moto...en-6741069.html

#322 Mc_Silver

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:14

Red Bull will be there or thereabouts at least. They have won 3 consecutive WDCs and WCCs and as regulations are stable from the last year, there is no reason why they cannot be at the front in OZ.

#323 300KPh

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 18:52

they aren't happy because they aren't dominant , but that doesn't say that their car is slow , they are faster but not massively faster.

#324 EvanRainer

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 19:09

I pay very close to F1, moreso than most on here apparently. And yes, people do just "expect" them to be on top. It was the same last year. Lots of people just kept saying that RB was looking strong and stable. What happened? Car wasnt what many thought it would be. Could easily happen again this year.

I agree, RB is on top cause they are the best team, thats why they won last year. They did not have the fastest car, nor the most reliable car. They had a solid car, run by the best team.

What do i mean "the car hasnt done anything in testing"? Exactly what it states. The car has not shown anything to say that it is the Best car as has been repeated numerous times. Of course hotlapping is not what testing is about(could be part of the program though). Who said that? I did not, you brought it up trying to big up your argument though.

The car will be at the forward end of the grid, thats a given. But the fastest? The car its based off of wasnt even the fastest. So what proof is there that this new car is the fastest? A hunch cause the best team built it? You cant take anything for granted in F1.


Who the hell is saying anything about them being absolutely the fastest? I don't pay attention to the endless drivel the journalists who know nothing spew.

"It was the same last year. Lots of people just kept saying that RB was looking strong and stable."

If you were paying as much attention as you claimed you were, you would know that no one was saying this last year and everyone who was half-paying attention knew that Red Bull had a half done car it would take them a while to sort out. And they STILL ended up on top.

#325 lbennie

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:23

The car has not shown anything to say that it is the Best car as has been repeated numerous times.


Pretty much everyone that has been at the track in the flesh has been saying that, visibly, the RB looks the most sorted/planted/on rails etc

Autosport have reported that there is an overwhelming gut feeling amongst the teams that RB has a beast on it's hands, despite the times not showing it.

Take from that what you will.

#326 surbjits

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:11

Pretty much everyone that has been at the track in the flesh has been saying that, visibly, the RB looks the most sorted/planted/on rails etc

Autosport have reported that there is an overwhelming gut feeling amongst the teams that RB has a beast on it's hands, despite the times not showing it.

Take from that what you will.


They said nothing of that tone: they predict it'll only be a few tenths separating big four, with RB at the front of the deck.

#327 lbennie

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 04:49

They said nothing of that tone: they predict it'll only be a few tenths separating big four, with RB at the front of the deck.


If by, 'they' you mean autosport, then yes, they did.

http://plus.autospor...sleeping-giant/ (autosport sub required)





#328 H2H

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:40

James Allen&Co on the tests.

Vettel’s graph shows consistency, with shorter runs. In the morning the team was working on its passive DRS system as well as trying different floors and in the afternoon a development passive DRS, according to sources. This is consistent with this kind of run plan. At no stage do they show their hand performance wise, because they are working on trying out different things.

This shows two things: they are pushing hard to get the passive DRS working, as they clearly see significant gains from it, but also it shows that they are confident their basic car is fast enough to compete in Melbourne. For all that Vettel said it hadn’t been a great test, this run plan looks like a team that feels it has a good car to start the season, but is pushing the envelope hard for the future.


Testing out the various configuration without pushing hard for lap times seems to be rather sensible considering the limited use of anything connected to the tyre performance which means pretty much everything. It feels a bit like the Jerez testing to me, lots of points to check on a never ending list.

I found that comparision by jjpm (commented on that JA article) interesting:

2010 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Hamilton McLaren 1m20.472s
2 Webber Red Bull 1m20.496s +0.024
3 Massa Ferrari 1m20.539s +0.067
4 Sutil Force India 1m20.611s +0.139
5 Vettel Red Bull 1m20.667s +0.195
6 Schumacher Mercedes 1m20.745s +0.273
7 Barrichello Williams 1m20.870s +0.398
8 Kobayashi Sauber 1m20.911s +0.439
9 Buemi Toro Rosso 1m22.135s +1.663
10 Kubica Renault 1m23.175s +2.703
11 Kovalainen Lotus 1m25.251s +4.779
12 Di Grassi Virgin 1m26.160s +5.688
—————
2011 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Schumacher Mercedes 1m21.249s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m21.614s +0.365
3 Rosberg Mercedes 1m21.788s +0.539
4 Heidfeld Renault 1m22.073s +0.824
5 Barrichello Williams 1m22.233s +0.984
6 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.315s +1.066
7 Alguersuari Toro Rosso 1m22.675s +1.426
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m22.933s +1.684
9 Kovalainen Lotus 1m23.437s +2.188
10 Di Resta Force India 1m23.653s +2.404
11 Sutil Force India 1m23.921s +2.672
12 Maldonado Williams 1m24.108s +2.859
13 Button McLaren 1m25.837s +4.588
14 D’Ambrosio Virgin 1m27.375s +6.126
—————
2012 Barcelone day 4 : Vettel will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Raikkonen Lotus 1m22.030s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m22.250s +0.220
3 Senna Williams 1m22.296s +0.266
4 Hulkenberg Force India 1m22.312s +0.282
5 Kobayashi Sauber 1m22.386s +0.356
6 Hamilton McLaren 1m22.430s +0.400
7 Petrov Caterham 1m22.795s +0.765
8 Schumacher Mercedes 1m22.939s +0.909
9 Maldonado Williams 1m23.347s +1.317
10 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.393s +1.363
11 Vettel Red Bull 1m23.608s +1.578
—————
2013 Barcelone day 4 : ??? will be World Champion
P Driver Team Time
1 Rosberg Mercedes 1m20.130s
2 Alonso Ferrari 1m20.494s +0.364
3 Button McLaren 1m21.444s +1.314
4 Hulkenberg Sauber 1m21.541s +1.411
5 Raikkonen Lotus 1m21.658s +1.528
6 di Resta Force India 1m21.664s +1.534
7 Maldonado Williams 1m22.415s +2.285
8 Vettel Red Bull 1m22.514s +2.384
9 Bottas Williams 1m22.524s +2.394
10 Pic Caterham 1m23.115s +2.985
11 Bianchi Marussia 1m23.167s +3.037
12 Ricciardo Toro Rosso 1m23.628s +3.498
13 Chilton Marussia 1m24.103s +3.973


Shows rather well the general approach of the teams, with RBR having arguably the most consistent one due to the stability of the team. One should not read too much detail into it, but the RB6 was indeed the fastest car relative to the competition and the RB8 the slowest.

Edited by H2H, 05 March 2013 - 10:41.


#329 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 18:48

I wouldn't be worried at all guys, the team seems to have everything under control and next week in Melbourne they'll let their performance on the track do the talking.

#330 Kelateboy

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:57

I wouldn't be worried at all guys, the team seems to have everything under control and next week in Melbourne they'll let their performance on the track do the talking.

Five more days till FP1 in Australia.

Personally, I think RB9 is a competitive car that should be able to fight race wins from the word go. Obviously that's not saying much with practically five (5) teams - RBR, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus and Mercedes - on level par.

At the very least, RBR is in a better position this year than they were last year when the loss of EBD affected RB8s tremendously.

#331 H2H

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 19:48


Even in Q3 and after the race we will only know part of the story due to the black riddles made in Italy.

I like the lack of big news and talk.



#332 chumma

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 21:57

Who the hell is saying anything about them being absolutely the fastest? I don't pay attention to the endless drivel the journalists who know nothing spew.

"It was the same last year. Lots of people just kept saying that RB was looking strong and stable."

If you were paying as much attention as you claimed you were, you would know that no one was saying this last year and everyone who was half-paying attention knew that Red Bull had a half done car it would take them a while to sort out. And they STILL ended up on top.

That is absolute crap! Everyone under the sun, put Red Bull a few tenths clear over McLaren before Melbourne. It was Red Bull>McLaren>>>>>>>Everyone else. Especially after they brought that exhaust config to the final Barcelona test too. Red Bull were favourites to go blow everyone away in Melbourne and it didn't happen. When you're so good for so long its normal for people to think you're always gonna have something up your sleeve to stay a step ahead.

Edited by chumma, 10 March 2013 - 21:58.


#333 Zava

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 22:21

That is absolute crap! Everyone under the sun, put Red Bull a few tenths clear over McLaren before Melbourne. It was Red Bull>McLaren>>>>>>>Everyone else. Especially after they brought that exhaust config to the final Barcelona test too. Red Bull were favourites to go blow everyone away in Melbourne and it didn't happen. When you're so good for so long its normal for people to think you're always gonna have something up your sleeve to stay a step ahead.

for the nth time, the word when RB put up the new exhaust was "red bull failed to make the same step ahead as mclaren" and that the car looked nothing special with the new config.

#334 SCUDmissile

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 22:25

That is absolute crap! Everyone under the sun, put Red Bull a few tenths clear over McLaren before Melbourne. It was Red Bull>McLaren>>>>>>>Everyone else. Especially after they brought that exhaust config to the final Barcelona test too. Red Bull were favourites to go blow everyone away in Melbourne and it didn't happen. When you're so good for so long its normal for people to think you're always gonna have something up your sleeve to stay a step ahead.

Only some.
For example many forumers including me thought RB were in a little trouble after their new exhausts. Before that, I would have said they were McLaren level but those final 2 days of testing at Barcelona when they brought their package that the journos were creaming over, it looked a lot to me similar to the problems the F2012 was having with the exhausts, only not as bad.

You are right though. case in point, Imola 2005. Everyone expected Michael to dominate after that race in the F2005.

To an extent it is happening now. McLaren look like they are struggling but many people will have them to be one of the fastest because of reputation. It is how it works.

#335 bonjon1979a

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 22:32

James Allen&Co on the tests.



Testing out the various configuration without pushing hard for lap times seems to be rather sensible considering the limited use of anything connected to the tyre performance which means pretty much everything. It feels a bit like the Jerez testing to me, lots of points to check on a never ending list.

I found that comparision by jjpm (commented on that JA article) interesting:



Shows rather well the general approach of the teams, with RBR having arguably the most consistent one due to the stability of the team. One should not read too much detail into it, but the RB6 was indeed the fastest car relative to the competition and the RB8 the slowest.

Arghhh!!!! These times drive me mad. They only show final day testing times. Not red bulls fastest time of test. They were always within 6 tenths of fastest times apart from this year when they were 2.4 seconds off the best time

#336 Massa

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 07:20

Renault show the data of their engines, the fuel consumption for each races. Sorry, it's in french, i'm on my phone right now on my way to the work, when i will arrive i will traduce.

http://motorsport.ne...ault,57537.html

Posted Image

Clik on the graphic for enlarge.


The first column is the name of the country, the second one is the lenght of the track, then it's the average speed, then max speed, then it's the % of the lap at full throttle, then the fuel consumption on one lap then the average consumption (L per 100KM ).

At Melbourne, RS27 engines consumn 2.5 litres of fuel on one lap and 67 after 100 KM.

Edited by Massa, 11 March 2013 - 08:21.


#337 BernieEc

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 08:04

Peter Sauber expects redbull to deliver a nasty surprise in Australia


http://www.gptoday.c...nasty_surprise/

#338 F.M.

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:28

Peter Sauber expects redbull to deliver a nasty surprise in Australia


http://www.gptoday.c...nasty_surprise/

No, he expects Red Bull will deliver a nasty surpise in Australia to the people who think Red Bull won't be at the sharp end of the grid. He's not saying Red Bull will be (overly) dominant, just that they will be there.

Edited by F.M., 11 March 2013 - 09:29.


#339 Sakae

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:28

I don't think that's what Peter Sauber said; the way I read it is, that (due to normalisation of regulations teams caught up) front of the grid will be close, and only those who expect RB to fall, they might be set for a surprise. He also added, that RB has know-how and resources to manage seatbacks. However I don't think he is predicting RB to disappear on the first lap.

One thing to remember, from interviews I have impression, that RB hasn't really completed all testing as planned due to rainy conditions, thus who knows how that will play itself out.

I should add that my pre-season radar is failing me and I have no feeling about pecking order, especially because Pirelli are again interfering in their usual obtrusive and unwelcome manner, and could play a major role on determination of race results. Mercedes, mainly due to its technical reinforcements I expect to do better than last year. We have seen a few times false predictions, and this year probably is not going to be any different.

Edited by Sakae, 11 March 2013 - 15:33.


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#340 H2H

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:22


Sauber says as usually sensible stuff. Red Bull will not be a good deal behind and they have a very strong and proven record when it comes the development race....

#341 HoldenRT

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 13:40

Redbull are a safe bet to be competitive.. but it's hard to see anyone dominating. The way the regs have been in the last few seasons, it's not really possible to dominate. The field is so close. Both in qualifying and the race. And carrying full race fuel from the start sort of compresses the field by default because they all cruise to save the tyres for the end of the stint.

People who talk about 'Redbull domination' have short memories. There was a race in 2006 for example.. with Ferrari at Hockenheim.. where they cruised the entire race and could have lapped everyone and got an easy 1-2. Domination is like winning by 30 or 40 seconds. With a pitstop in hand. These days a dominant victory is winning by 10 seconds. Unless it's a wet race where the laptimes become all over the place. Even if a car wins three or four races in a row.. it's not really dominant if each victory is a tense close fought victory. Being dominant in most sports.. is having a buffer for injuries.. or for setbacks.. where even when things go wrong, it's still easy to recover and get comfortable victories. Being in a league of their own.. and you always know they will win.. and to me, F1 hasn't been like that for quite some time. There's been times where Redbull were dominant in qualifying and getting pole by big margins, but even that.. it feels like it's been a few seasons since that happened.

#342 GlenP

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:13

Being a big Mark Webber fan I'm hoping that the RB9 is a bit more to his liking. Can't truly work it out, but I think Vettel is better when there are particular features on the car that require certain treatment, so a more all-rounder sort of car would be good for Webber. I think.

#343 H2H

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:28

@HolenRT: Pretty much spot on. People seem to have forgotten quickly what a dominant car is. Even in 2011 the margins, for example in Q3 were often very slim. That season all went pretty much perfectly for one package.

Being a big Mark Webber fan I'm hoping that the RB9 is a bit more to his liking. Can't truly work it out, but I think Vettel is better when there are particular features on the car that require certain treatment, so a more all-rounder sort of car would be good for Webber. I think.


Well if we consider the record I can only partly agree with part I, arguably it is more precise to say that the usual Vettel advantage gets bigger under a certain car setup. The RB9 is clearly an evolution of the late RB8 with which one driver won quite a bit and the other not. However while the races, partly due to more consistency and superior race craft, were one-sided the Q3s were quite evenly matched. We all know about the massive development push of RBR especially in the exhaust area but that was not the only 'new' factor. I personally think much has to do with the tyres, with Mark generally able to switch them on better over that single lap while on the flip side Seb could get out more out of them over a stint. The new Pirellis could have a big big influence on the intra-team battle.

Edited by H2H, 11 March 2013 - 21:30.


#344 GlenP

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 21:30

It was the tyres more than anything, I agree. Plus Vettel is about as good as it gets, so I'm not going to be too hard on Webber. Love the Aussie Grit though - he's like Mansell without the whinging.

#345 H2H

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 22:00

It was the tyres more than anything, I agree. Plus Vettel is about as good as it gets, so I'm not going to be too hard on Webber. Love the Aussie Grit though - he's like Mansell without the whinging.


... and can beat everybody on even terms on his day. I also wanted to remind some and myself that Mark was indeed pretty competitive in Q3. We tend to try to paint a consistent record into our minds and tend to brush away elements which don't seem to fit.

The question will be how the RB9 works the tyre as so far the Pirelli performance is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma. Oh and I would love to see better starts by both Bulls, last year Ferrari gave most of the field a good lesson of their importance...

Edited by H2H, 11 March 2013 - 22:09.


#346 chumma

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 22:06

It was the tyres more than anything, I agree. Plus Vettel is about as good as it gets, so I'm not going to be too hard on Webber. Love the Aussie Grit though - he's like Mansell without the whinging.

I think Webber, for the first time in a long time, will have a good weekend in Melbourne. Vettel isn't quite satisfied with the car, and I just have this feeling that finally Webber may get his swansong in Melbourne (I think this year will be his last, but if I were him, i'd make sure I get at least 1 season to taste Turbo F1.

#347 F.M.

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 23:04

I think Webber, for the first time in a long time, will have a good weekend in Melbourne. Vettel isn't quite satisfied with the car, and I just have this feeling that finally Webber may get his swansong in Melbourne (I think this year will be his last, but if I were him, i'd make sure I get at least 1 season to taste Turbo F1.

Couldhart stopped before the last big regulation change

#348 Kelateboy

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 07:38

Redbull are a safe bet to be competitive.. but it's hard to see anyone dominating. The way the regs have been in the last few seasons, it's not really possible to dominate. The field is so close. Both in qualifying and the race. And carrying full race fuel from the start sort of compresses the field by default because they all cruise to save the tyres for the end of the stint.

Agreed that it is a safe bet that RB9 will be competitive at the start of this season. At the same time, I fully agree with your statement that nobody will be dominating this year. Any of the top 5 teams namely Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Mercedes and Lotus could win any given race.

We had 7 different winners for the first 7 GPs last season - I don't think that is likely to happen this year.


#349 EvanRainer

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Posted 12 March 2013 - 08:33

I think Webber, for the first time in a long time, will have a good weekend in Melbourne. Vettel isn't quite satisfied with the car, and I just have this feeling that finally Webber may get his swansong in Melbourne (I think this year will be his last, but if I were him, i'd make sure I get at least 1 season to taste Turbo F1.


You are making things up again.

#350 lbennie

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Posted 13 March 2013 - 03:54

Mark Webber ‏@AussieGrit
@thespoon007: The Monster boyz getting a bit of the real fuel in #givesyouwings pic.twitter.com/RV3VTiSGwW


haha, whoops!

Edited by lbennie, 13 March 2013 - 03:54.