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The RB9 - Red Bull Racing's challenger for 2013


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#401 GlenP

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:05

That isn't a "reason", it is an opinion.

Even an eternal Webber fan such as myself has to admit - SV is an amazing driver. Car ain't bad either.

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#402 mclarennut

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:11

No its amazing car and team also the driver ain't bad either.

Anyway am not trolling, the car is amazing and it looks like Vettel will have a great season and win this years title.

I was just making the point that Vettel is a better driver than Webber FACT, but that doesn't make him make the redbull car go quicker than it already is, if you put Alonso. Hamilton and a few others in the Redbull would Vettel still be winning so much?

Edited by mclarennut, 15 March 2013 - 12:14.


#403 rasul

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:13

It is foremost the car, if a horse is very good you could put a women on top of it and it would still win.

Hamilton is a lot quicker than Vettel so he would have out raced him if they was team mates, put them in the same car on the same track and Lewis (was) is a second quicker, so I expect Vettel would have been the bridesmaid.


I hope you are joking and don't really believe that. I hope you are not basing your opinion on a meaningless Top Gear lap that has nothing to do with F1. :D Then I guess if Merc is only 1 second slower than RB9, Lewis should easily beat Vettel. :rolleyes:

Anyway, RB9 looks very, very good so far. I'm still not convinced RBR are as superior as everyone seems to believe, though.

Edited by rasul, 15 March 2013 - 12:14.


#404 Obi Offiah

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:14

Amazing car, amazing driver. Deadly combination.

#405 GlenP

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:16

Don't see why not; he's a formidable driver with great all-round qualities. Not as rounded as Alonso perhaps, not as one lap fast as Hamilton maybe, but possibly at least as good overall as either. Certainly Vettels flaws aren't as deep as other drivers, plus he seems to keep on learning and is obviously exceptionally good on the technical side.

So - no. It isn't all car. But the car is lovely.

#406 mclarennut

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:17

I hope you are joking and don't really believe that. I hope you are not basing your opinion on a meaningless Top Gear lap that has nothing to do with F1. :D Then I guess if Merc is only 1 second slower than RB9, Lewis should easily beat Vettel. :rolleyes:

Anyway, RB9 looks very, very good so far. I'm still not convinced RBR are as superior as everyone seems to believe, though.


A car is a car, f1 or not... I do not think you have kept up with what I was saying IF Lewis was in the redbull car I said :drunk:

Edited by mclarennut, 15 March 2013 - 12:22.


#407 plumtree

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:19

- Inside the nose https://twitter.com/...3266304/photo/1
Posted Image


- This may show how tight the packaging is... http://www.pitpass.c...ers-escape-plan

Red Bull drivers Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel failed to complete the mandatory cockpit-escape test ahead of today's opening day of practice. All drivers must complete the mandatory test, during which they must demonstrate they can exit the car within five seconds and lift their knees within the cockpit. Team boss Christian Horner was unconcerned. "Maybe the car wasn't quite ready," he shrugged. "Sebastian's walking around in his overalls ready to do it." Though not completed yesterday with the rest of the pit lane, both Webber and Vettel simply need to complete the test ahead of today's opening practice session.


- http://joesaward.wor...ace-at-red-bull

A new face at Red Bull ... Pierre Waché, a former Michelin engineer who was in charge of vehicle dynamics at Hinwil, working alongside chief designer Matt Morris and head of aerodynamics Willem Toet, is moving to Red Bull Racing. The word is that he will have a very senior position reporting to Adrian Newey in some sort of technical coordinator role. ...


- Hopefully it wasn't a sign of KERS problem remaining troublesome.

#408 GlenP

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:24

A car is a car, f1 or not... I do not think you have kept up with what I was saying IF Lewis was in the redbull car I said :drunk:

Well that is even worse, since it is based on Zero evidence, rather than just inadequate evidence.

#409 H2H

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:32

@plumtree: Good links and the picture is indeed nice. The duct is of course contained within the nose cone so the arrow might give some a wrong impression. Note some of the air taken in is allow to escape through a slit at the bottom. It will be used for cooling and maybe RBR will play around with that. The S cross-section of the duct is obviously due to the way the front suspension/steering is packaged.

It fits well with Scarbs theory that the major role of that lower slot is to skim off the boundery layer. The RB9 just went one step further the rest and exploited that duct for a dual purpose, both influencing the air flow over the nose and cooling with it. This seems pretty much the RBR way in the last years.

Edited by H2H, 15 March 2013 - 12:34.


#410 F.M.

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:34

So all you are really saying is that Vettel is quicker than his team mate?? thats not really hard, But if he had Lewis as a team mate the last 3 years at red bull, I would bet Lewis would be 4 times WDC and Vettel 0. so it is the car not the driver, a good driver just helps.

Then Lewis should have one last year easily, since the McLaren was the fastest car.

Edited by F.M., 15 March 2013 - 12:35.


#411 H2H

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 12:42

So Pierre is the RBR mole at Sauber...

Looking at the way Sauber managed it's tyres over the last years the former tyre-man in charge of their vehicle dynamics sounds like an excellent catch in our Pirelli times.

Edited by H2H, 15 March 2013 - 12:43.


#412 ZF1

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 20:50

Hungry Heidi advert, enjoy :rotfl:



Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

*Edited: Pictures added*

Edited by ZF1, 15 March 2013 - 20:56.


#413 yoyogetfunky

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Posted 15 March 2013 - 21:24

Q: Sebastian, Melbourne is traditionally the time to reveal the name of your car. What will ‘she’ be called in 2013?
Sebastian Vettel: We’ve opted for Hungry Heidi.

Q: What is behind that name?
SV: Ha, we could hardly call her horny…'

:rotfl: :rotfl:

http://www.formula1....13/3/14345.html

#414 MarileneRiddle

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:22

I never realized that Hamilton was a part of the Red Bull machinery. :rolleyes:

Anyway, back to Hungry Heidi. Is there anything to worry about with regards to hydraulics (in FP3)? It will do no good for Sebastian to have fast machinery only for it to be unreliable (a la 2010).

#415 H2H

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 07:36

So far she is on a strict diet drinking a lot of water. You got to keep that waistline...

Posted Image

@bhallg2k (F1 technical):

"My, what big scoops you have."

All the better to gain an(other) aerodynamic edge with a blown hub.


Edited by H2H, 16 March 2013 - 07:39.


#416 choyothe

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:36

It is foremost the car, if a horse is very good you could put a women on top of it and it would still win.

Hamilton is a lot quicker than Vettel so he would have out raced him if they was team mates, put them in the same car on the same track and Lewis (was) is a second quicker, so I expect Vettel would have been the bridesmaid.


Damn, mclarennut going all out. gotta admire the dedication. :up:

Then Lewis should have one last year easily, since the McLaren was the fastest car.


Ham's 2012 reminds me of Vettel's 2010 in terms of adversity faced points-wise tbh.


Sorry for continuing the OT, mods.

#417 choyothe

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 11:37

Oh, and just to get the ball rolling for this year:

It's safe to say RB9 will be one of the greatest F1 cars ever built, if not the greatest.

#418 Kelateboy

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 13:48

Don't see why not; he's a formidable driver with great all-round qualities. Not as rounded as Alonso perhaps, not as one lap fast as Hamilton maybe, but possibly at least as good overall as either. Certainly Vettels flaws aren't as deep as other drivers, plus he seems to keep on learning and is obviously exceptionally good on the technical side.

So - no. It isn't all car. But the car is lovely.

The best livery on the grid. But then I like purple a great deal, so I might be a bit bias.....

#419 H2H

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:21

No visible DRD duct inside of the big central cooling outlet fed by the sidepods. The pic size is a bit large but not overly so IMHO:

Posted Image

With the DRD pole and the feeder duct in Barcelona:

Posted Image



Here you can see the inlets of the DRD quite well against the blue background:

Posted Image

Edited by H2H, 16 March 2013 - 16:29.


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#420 H2H

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Posted 16 March 2013 - 16:37

At least I hit the track, even if only with two big wheels.

In the first picture you can see also the diffusor very well, with the starterhole getting blown by air coming over the sidepod. The top airfoil over it is no longer extends around it, but maybe they had that one already in Barcelona. The Hublot ducts, an old take has been reintroduced for good. You can also see the chamber very well, as usually the front one is more pronounced.

Edited by H2H, 16 March 2013 - 16:39.


#421 Kelateboy

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:38

Savour this while it lasts. You won't see this sort of top speed often from RBR. :)

6. Sebastian Vettel 307.6 kph
9. Mark Webber 304.9 kph

#422 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:53

Class of the field again, big surprise there :stoned:
Hopefully we can catch up a bit and give you guys a run for your money.. Best of luck.

Edit: Why's that funny Markn?? lol I must remain civil at all times, even if it pains me a bit. :up:

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 17 March 2013 - 02:55.


#423 Markn93

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:54

Class of the field again, big surprise there :stoned:
Hopefully we can catch up a bit and give you guys a run for your money.. Best of luck.

:lol:




(We're all thinking it  ;) )

Edited by Markn93, 17 March 2013 - 02:54.


#424 boldhakka

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 02:58

Class of the field again, big surprise there :stoned:


Yet, in the F138 thread :

We'll have a much better idea about the season in Bahrain or in Barcelona. Until then it's truly hard to say IMHO.


Too early to say if the RBR is the class of any field. We'll see.

#425 Markn93

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:01

Well it looks pretty awesome from where practically everyone who follows F1 is sitting. Hard to see how they will fail to win both championships at the moment, being that they are not as operationally inept as Mclaren last year.

#426 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:03

Yet, in the F138 thread :



Too early to say if the RBR is the class of any field. We'll see.


The quote about it being too early is in reference to how bad or good Ferrari is going to be, I was conversing with a doom & gloomer. Regardless of what Ferrari do the RB9 is most likely the class of the field. It damn sure is in Australia. I agree we need a few more races to know for sure how good RB is, but I don't think I'm out on a limb here.

#427 PretentiousBread

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:04

Amazing car, amazing driver. Deadly combination.


This, we are well and truly back to 2011. Vettel was pummelling Webber most of the weekend yet still Mark was quicker than any non Red Bull. I think this could actually be worse than 2011, it was scary how quick Vettel was out of the box every time this weekend in the dry.

#428 PretentiousBread

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:07

Yet, in the F138 thread :



Too early to say if the RBR is the class of any field. We'll see.


Please, it fundamentally has more downforce than anything else, every trackside observer thinks its on rails. Webber is doing his best to make the car look merely competitive, but still he's the second fastest thing out on track.

#429 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:10

This, we are well and truly back to 2011. Vettel was pummelling Webber most of the weekend yet still Mark was quicker than any non Red Bull. I think this could actually be worse than 2011, it was scary how quick Vettel was out of the box every time this weekend in the dry.


This. I'll preface my comment by saying it wasn't a proper Quali session, but Seb was out of this world quick today. I remember the one lap where he had a moment(somewhat off the track) yet still set fastest lap. I hope this isn't another 2011 because it's boring for everyone but RBR fans, but it very well could be. Question is how much more development can Adrian find out of this car/these Regs and what can the others do about it. If recent history is any indication, there's isn't much the others can do..

#430 Bruce

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 03:50

This. I'll preface my comment by saying it wasn't a proper Quali session, but Seb was out of this world quick today. I remember the one lap where he had a moment(somewhat off the track) yet still set fastest lap. I hope this isn't another 2011 because it's boring for everyone but RBR fans, but it very well could be. Question is how much more development can Adrian find out of this car/these Regs and what can the others do about it. If recent history is any indication, there's isn't much the others can do..


One swallow doth not a summer make. Yeah - it looks like, based on this quali, we're in for yet another year of watching the Red Bulls scamper away fromall else - but I remember thinking the same about McLaren in 2012 - they were first and second on the grid and should have been first and second in the race - looked like along season unless you were a McLaren fan - but it turned out to be a classic.

The Red Bull looks v. quick - but this is one qualifying on a cold track. Let's wait for more information before looking for the lifeboats...;)

#431 krapmeister

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 04:12

Another scary thought is that if it is somewhat like 2011 for RBR then they can go about devoting as much resources as possible to the 2014 car, rather than focusing on a tight 2013 title fight...

#432 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 05:48

Great start with a 1-2 in qualifying now we'll see how the race plays out. Hopefully it will be another 1-2 for our RB9s or Q100s *cringe*

#433 plumtree

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 07:52

https://twitter.com/...168184696004608
"RBR has no telemetry connection to Vettel" This radio message came just before the start of the race. No further information about it.

Very perplexing race all around. Car eating tyres, race pace wasn't there. Through the last stint, Webber on one lap newer tyres was a lot (almost a second per lap) quicker than Vettel.

Edited by plumtree, 17 March 2013 - 08:06.


#434 HoldenRT

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:04

Redbull will win races but the quali pace and race pace balance will be tough to figure out. What you gain in one, you lose in the other. And there is also the issue of top speed and overtaking ability.. because with such a close field.. you need a race car that can overtake.. not just run quickly in clear air. The Redbull seemed to suffer more in dirty air compared to the others.

Vettel ran a pretty flawless race.. Webber's first half was shocking but the second half was ok. He might have even caught Vettel a bit towards the end, but Vettel had nothing to gain by pushing. And there is also the issue of temperatures.. and whether or not they can be strong on faster circuits like Malaysia with higher temperatures, if the tyre wear will be better or worse. The Redbull clearly had more tyre wear than the two cars infront when it came to longer stints. But in core speed, the car is as fast as any.

#435 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:20

Webbo said on RTL he had no KERS for the first 20 laps

#436 Hanzo

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:27

It's safe to say RB9 will be one of the greatest F1 cars ever built, if not the greatest.



Ok... but don't bet your house on it just yet!  ;)


#437 H2H

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:28

Redbull will win races but the quali pace and race pace balance will be tough to figure out. What you gain in one, you lose in the other. And there is also the issue of top speed and overtaking ability.. because with such a close field.. you need a race car that can overtake.. not just run quickly in clear air. The Redbull seemed to suffer more in dirty air compared to the others.

Vettel ran a pretty flawless race.. Webber's first half was shocking but the second half was ok. He might have even caught Vettel a bit towards the end, but Vettel had nothing to gain by pushing. And there is also the issue of temperatures.. and whether or not they can be strong on faster circuits like Malaysia with higher temperatures, if the tyre wear will be better or worse. The Redbull clearly had more tyre wear than the two cars infront when it came to longer stints. But in core speed, the car is as fast as any.


Well said.

As I have stated time after time before Q3 that the tyres are the black riddle that has to be solved. Red Bull looked very competitive indeed over a single lap but suffered compared to Raikkonen and the Ferraris on the long runs on both tyre types. Mercedes was pretty strong too if we consider that Rosberg went out and they screwed a bit the Hamilton strategy. The Force India managed the harder Pirelli very well while Sutil suffered terribly on well rubbered track on that last stint. A third place was the maximum today. Vettel made a flawless race and did rightly focus in the second half on not taking too much out of the tyres which proved very finicky on the RB9. Webber did made his (usual) terrible start but managed the second part pretty well. Lots of good important points.

Overall the good news is that the RB9 had strong pace over the single lap. The next quali will hopefully confirm that. Albert Park is a somewhat strange circuit and even a dry Sepang could show a completely different picture. But being faster over a single lap helps you only so much if your car, Hungry Heidi or not, eats those tyres so quickly. On race pace RBR seems to have to catch up and maybe more single-lap performance might have to be sacrificied for better tyre management during the race.

The team worked overall pretty well, the strategy was overall fine especially if we consider the big unknowns but no KERS is no good news, first Vettel and now Mark.

Edited by H2H, 17 March 2013 - 08:30.


#438 EvanRainer

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:34

Not the smoothest of weekends. Lots of small issues and clearly could have done better with the setup.

I will start worrying if it's the same in regards to tyres etc after a few more races. This race was under almost unique conditions.

They also seem to have lots of one lap pace so there could be a lot of room for comprising more for race pace there. It's hard to get it spot on in the first race, especially under these conditions.

There was a lot of locking of the front right that is probably indicative of something.

#439 fatd

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:36

Overall the good news is that the RB9 had strong pace over the single lap. The next quali will hopefully confirm that. Albert Park is a somewhat strange circuit and even a dry Sepang could show a completely different picture. But being faster over a single lap helps you only so much if your car, Hungry Heidi or not, eats those tyres so quickly. On race pace RBR seems to have to catch up and maybe more single-lap performance might have to be sacrificied for better tyre management during the race.


LOL that's the reason! Seb needs to change the car's name, she's too hungry she's eating the tyres so fast! :lol:

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#440 choyothe

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:39


Ok... but don't bet your house on it just yet! ;)


I guess you missed the:

Oh, and just to get the ball rolling for this year:

It's safe to say RB9 will be one of the greatest F1 cars ever built, if not the greatest.


Referring to the annual round of hailing the current iteration as the best ever after any run of good results, done by Vettel-detractors.

I dunno If I have to adjust my sarcasm or others their sarcasm detector. :p

#441 apoka

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 08:48

At least we now know why the tyre-eater is named Hungry Heidi.

Seriously, I am still somewhat optimistic although I don't expect any significant race pace advantage over the field soon. The goal will once more be to qualify ahead and stay there. Luckily, Vettel is quite good at this but needs another 0.3s-0.5s per race lap to win.


#442 EvanRainer

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:06

Remember, the car last year, especially at the start of the season when it was more sensitive, always prefered the higher temperatures.

They were always going to struggle a bit with the cold temperatures. I don't mean to use excuses but I will wait until Barcelona or so before labeling this car a tyre eater. If at that point and under several different tracks and conditions Lotus and Ferrari still have superior race pace and tyre managment the yes, they will have a real problem

#443 encircled

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:38

Posted Image

#444 Crossmax

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 09:45

I dunno If I have to adjust my sarcasm or others their sarcasm detector. :p

I think you're doing fine :up:

#445 JDo

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:33

Too early to be concerned yet. RBR showed good pace on a drying track. While not the fastest outright today, there is plenty to like. Hotter temps and more medium and high speed cornering will continue to play to their strengths. Personally, I am reasonably happy ATM. Roll on Malaysia!

#446 mkoscevic

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 10:50

KERS & Webber. WTF!

#447 Massa_f1

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:54

KERS & Webber. WTF!



Reasonably happy with this race. However I hope they can find away to make the tyres last longer next weekend. Red Bull did not do many if any long runs over the winter. Maybe they should of.

#448 fatd

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 11:57

Posted Image


In the third panel, Horatio looks a bit like Horner (or maybe it's my eyes deceiving me lol) :drunk:

#449 encircled

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:05

Now that you mention it, he does look a bit like Horner. :D

#450 H2H

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Posted 17 March 2013 - 12:40


So how did the car measure up? My personal impression matches quite well the words of the Horner and Seb at the PC which I couldn't watch live:

When asked by AUTOSPORT for an explanation about where the team's early weekend form had gone, Horner said: "One simple word: tyres.

"We just weren't in the optimum window with the tyres today, for whatever reason. For the conditions and so on we were a bit out.

"That became fairly apparent from lap four or five, because Seb got a good start, he built up the lead that we wanted and then it was quite clear that the car was pretty heavy on the tyre.

"That forced us then to go down the route of a three-stop and, when you run into a bit of traffic as well, that puts more stress on the tyre."

Horner did not think that the tyre management issues were an inherent weakness of the RB9 but instead were simply related to the temperature.

Melbourne podium 2013"I think probably the conditions were a significant factor today and we were just out of the window," added Horner. "All things considered, third place was actually a very, very good result.

"Kimi was the only driver/car combination that could make a two-stop really work and it was quite obvious from half distance that is what they were doing.

"To emphasise that point, he did the fastest lap on a tyre that was older than we could have dreamt going anywhere near.

"So I think we have learned an awful lot today and hopefully it will not be quite as chilly next weekend."


As we have seen in past tyre management is a slippery slop. If start to slip the problem compounds with additional elements like heavier traffic due to more stops. CH clearly thinks that today it was all about not getting the tyres to work. It was the first race, an unusual circuit and far colder GP then prepared for. It is no surprise that they hope the next race will be dry and warmer.

Vettel in the PC:

.... After that though, we could see that he was a little bit too quick for us today and in the last two stints he was pulling away. I have to admit I was quite surprised when I was still missing one position in my calculations because all the cars that I saw made sense but I never saw Kimi in the race but he ended up way ahead of us and then I saw him on TV, and then saw that Fernando was then second and Kimi was leading. Overall, as I said before, very happy with third place. I think surely when you start from pole, you want to win but I think we can be happy with the pace all weekend. The car left a very good impression. The whole team seemed to operate very calmly and considering it was the first race of the season we seemed to just continue where we stopped last year. So yeah, I think it was a good day for us. Obviously there's a bit of homework to do, regarding the tyres. I think two-stop was out of our range today, so we'll see where we are next week.


Q. But did it surprise you that starting from pole the pace wasn't there to go on and win the race?

SV: Well I think the pace was there. The naked pace. Qualifying was pretty good for us. I think we had quite a good run, and then also the first two laps of the race were pretty good and also the first two laps on each set of tyres felt pretty good – but yeah, obviously after that we couldn't keep it up and surely the times set in the front, from Fernando but Kimi especially, were quite impressive considering the amount of laps on the tyres. So, we couldn't do that and that's why, I think we lost out a little bit today. But, as I said, it's a very tough, very long grand prix and very nice to be on the podium at the end. We have quite a good record here so I'm happy that we had another podium finish today.


Q. [About strategy and it's implications]

...So you can argue that for sure, at that time, the traffic didn't help, especially because as I mentioned earlier, in traffic, you start to slide around even more and then lose more of the tyres, so we struggled with that today but again, I'm not blaming anything or anyone because there's plenty of laps in the race where you can make it up again. P3 I think was the best we could get today.


Note the similar point made by CH.

Q. (Kate Walker – Girl Racer) Another tyre question for you, Sebastian: over the last few years your car has been known for its downforce, it's been a really good advantage for you. Do you think that might actually be an Achilles heel this year, that you're wearing out your tyres more quickly than the competition?

SV: Well, it depends, I think. At the end of the day, surely there were times when we had plenty of downforce compared to other people, but I think these times are over, not just this year but way before that. I think we sometimes have the ability to compare a little bit to other people and the magic days when we were covering a lot more speed in high speed corners, I don't think they are happening any more. I think we are still very competitive but I think there's a lot more to it than just the raw downforce level. You could argue that with more downforce you go faster, you're asking more of the tyres, all of those things, but I think overall there's a certain trend where some cars seem to work pretty well in some conditions. As Kimi touched on today, he was struggling with front tyres; I think for us it was more evened out. We had both axles running away from us. I'm not sure about the Ferraris but looking at their tyres during running, it looked pretty similar to us, so especially at the end of the stints. Then again, every day can be a bit different. I think you need to be very careful to find a real trend but I think there have been a lot of races where we have been looking after the tyres pretty well and they will come again. For sure, today we were a little bit behind but next week is another race and completely different conditions, as Kimi said, so we will see what happens there.


As usual SV is very analytical. So what can we take away from this race?

a) 'The car left a very good impression'. 'The pace was there, the naked pace'.
b) Tyres, rubber, Pirellis - getting them to work properly makes a huge difference.
c) Smart bits like DRD might come in very handy but in sheer gains they are nothing compared to the black stuff.