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Prost critical of Ferrari = sacked, Alonso critical... = ?


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#51 spacekid

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 21:08

The difference is that Enzo Ferrari is dead.
He was an unsufferable bore, and his ego was in his cars. Montezemolo is a coldish businessman and he just wants to win.


(cough) Prost was fired in '91, Enzo died in '88 (cough)

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#52 BoschKurve

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:26

(cough) Prost was fired in '91, Enzo died in '88 (cough)


Someone did mention that the culture of Ferrari even in 1991 wasn't all that different from what it was when Enzo was calling the shots.

#53 George Costanza

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:27

Raikkonen won the only Ferrari championship since 2004, because he had the lady luck at Brazil 2007, which Massa didn't have one year later, or Alonso had at Abu Dhabi 2010 or Brazil 2012.

Do you really think that Raikkonen won a Ferrari championship while Alonso (or Massa) didn't because he performed better?

Likewise, I also believe that the F2008 had the potential to be dominant in the hands of a proper top driver.


That would be Michael Schumacher had he been racing for them in '08.

#54 Skinnyguy

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 15:44

- Ferrari won the 2007 WCC because of the spy-gate.


Not going to enter the topic because it´s full of the old rubbish from both sides, but this is not true, and it´s repeated to death: Ferrari would have won 2007 even without McLaren being DSQ.

#55 LiJu914

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 16:26

Not going to enter the topic because it´s full of the old rubbish from both sides, but this is not true, and it´s repeated to death: Ferrari would have won 2007 even without McLaren being DSQ.


Spygate +point deductions Hungary then.

#56 Craven Morehead

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:36

So in 1991 Prost was dropped from Ferrari for complaining etc about the car. We all know that Alonso continuously says the car isn't good enough, but Ferrari are agreeing with him, rather than dropping him or shutting him up. What are everyone's thoughts? Why did they do it once but not again?

note I am not against Alonso in anyway, I'm just curious as I remember reading about Prost way back when and it seems like a similar situation.


Different era, different drivers, different comments, different management.

#57 RealRacing

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:05

I just finished watching the whole 1990 season and the 1991 and 1992 season reviews. It seems to me that Prost and Ferrari did an excellent job overall in 1990. Prost brought his McLaren engineer with him and the car, even though unreliable especially at the beginning of the season, proved to match and even beat what had been a dominant McLaren in the previous two seasons. I think Prost could even have won the 1990 WDC if he had been a bit more prudent at the first corner at Suzuka (debatable of course if, lifting, Senna had not touched him). However, strangely enough, they fired the team principal at the end of that year and 1991 was a disaster (how they failed to build on that good 1990 car and season I don't know). But their reaction of firing a team manager that brought the team to an inch of the championship, tells me about their "someone has to take the blame" philosophy of that time. Also, when they fired Prost at the end of 1991, they had Alesi who was supposed to be the next big thing (even though his 1991 performance left much to be desired). Prost's mindset at that time was also different from Alonso's now: he already had 3 WDCs, was tired of F1 and already had his eye set on Williams. In other words, he did not give a s..t anymore. And, of course, F1 was different back then, drivers were or were allowed to be much more expressive.

But yeah, aside from the obvious difference in culture brought on at Ferrari in the MS, etc. era, IMO there are two factors that make FA more secure at Ferrari: money (like it or not, in these troubled financial times of huge F1 costs Santander is important) and the lack of a better alternative in the short and medium term.

PD: Someone mentioned lack of TOs at Ferrari at that time. From what I have seen, one of the reasons Mansell quit was because he felt he was No. 2 at Ferrari and wanted No. 1 status, which he supposedly got at Williams.

#58 Winter98

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:29

Raikkonen won the only Ferrari championship since 2004, because he had the lady luck at Brazil 2007, which Massa didn't have one year later, or Alonso had at Abu Dhabi 2010 or Brazil 2012.


I have to disagree with you here Kingshark. I don't think it's fair to say Alonso didn't have lady luck at Abu Dhabi in 2010 or Brazil 2012. Both years he had the car to win the WDC (As Massa proved down the stretch in 2012), and both times was beaten fair and square. Nothing to do with luck.

#59 Seanspeed

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:59

Both years he had the car to win the WDC

No one can reasonably say that. Massa was a consistent pole position and race-winning threat in 2007 and 2008. At no point in 2012 was he any of these things, even in his better form later on. Ferrari was still clearly behind Red Bull and Mclaren and was often mixing it up with a few other teams as well. Alonso's WDC chances came from supreme consistency, relentless attack in the races on Sunday and some early season struggles for other teams.

In 2010, Massa still was rarely a front-runner. Ferrari had its moments, but overall, it was clear 2nd best to Red Bull and probably about equal with Mclaren over the season.

I wont say that Kimi lucked out in Brazil 2007. Thats ridiculous. He had more misfortune than Lewis or Alonso had over the season. The Mclarens were bulletproof while Kimi suffered engine problems both Barcelona and Germany leading to DNF's. That Lewis had a glitch that dropped him back in the last race just means his bad luck came at a later time than Kimi's did and it wasn't even race-ending. Kimi won more races than anyone else, even if you take away the gifted win in Brazil. He and Ferrari still deserved that WDC.

And Massa was equally as lucky in 2008 in the finale if you want to see it like that. The rain threw a complete spanner in the works at a time when Lewis had a low-downforce setup not suited to the rain conditions. Without that, Lewis would have cruised to an easy 3rd/4th place and more comfortably won the WDC.

The truth is that the last time Ferrari produced a pole-grabbing, race-dominating car over a weelemd was in 2008. Its something thats a bit of a concern for us Ferrari fans, since Mclaren and Red Bull have both accomplished this a fair amount over the last few years. 2010 and 2012 were good years, but nothing to brag about from a car perspective. We really have to give a ton of credit to Alonso for putting it in a championship-cabable situation.

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#60 bourbon

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:38

The truth is that the last time Ferrari produced a pole-grabbing, race-dominating car over a weelemd was in 2008. Its something thats a bit of a concern for us Ferrari fans, since Mclaren and Red Bull have both accomplished this a fair amount over the last few years. 2010 and 2012 were good years, but nothing to brag about from a car perspective. We really have to give a ton of credit to Alonso for putting it in a championship-cabable situation.


That is an interesting fact. When is the last time that a driver left Ferrari in glory? Perhaps there is some inherent right to being able to criticize Ferrari as a driver, based on what the future may bring, based on what it has wrought in the past.

#61 smoothcrim

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:50

We really have to give a ton of credit to Alonso for putting it in a championship-cabable situation.


Would Hamilton or Vettel not have put it in that same position or even better?
The problem with being a Ferrari driver is that even if u drive really well all year long and outperform the car on most occasions,no one will remember that if u didnt win the wdc and werent outperforming the car at seasons end.

I feel sorry for Alonso cause unfortunately for him Ferrari arent building a car that is consistently fast and it does reflect badly on him,but he should keep his yap shut.

#62 BackOnTop

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:24

The main problem with Alonso @ Ferrari is that he has has taken the "Team" out of Ferrari & made it an "I, Me, Myself" Irene!

Alonso + Santander forget that Ferrari have 650 employees as well who are working as hard as him. With all the stupid strategies the management play to give Alonso the edge (Germany & Austin)... It only creates a silent rift in the other side of the garage.

Not to forget, these 650 Approx Employees haven't received a Winning Bonus that would help their family financially since Kimi Raikkonen left having provided 3 Championships for the very proud Italian outfit to savour.

If's & But's are not helping anyone at Ferrari, except Alonso, who gets a massive Pay.

Some people here claiming that "everyone" at Ferrari was not happy with Kimi & undermining his achievements as a Ferrari driver as a "excuse" for Alonso's lack of achievements is very sad indeed.

Edited by BackOnTop, 09 January 2013 - 07:32.


#63 LiJu914

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:42

I guess ifs & buts become suddenly more relevant again, when it´sabout the question, why Kimi was beaten by Massa in 2008, why he was less succesful in 2009 than any of Alonso´s seasons at Ferrari.

Furthermore....to use the same bizarre logic...i guess Kimi has to deliver quite soon now, if he don´t wants to turn out to be a total dissapointment for the team, with which Alonso won 2 WDCs.

Edited by LiJu914, 09 January 2013 - 07:43.


#64 seahawk

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 07:47

Ferrari will replace Alonso with Vettel when they have the chance. 2013 could be the last season of Alonso in a Ferrari or even in F1. People are getting tired of his bigh mouth and medicore driving under pressure.

#65 BackOnTop

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:25

Laughable to think that people actually believe the reason to why Raikkonen's accomplished more than Alonso in the 3 years he's been at Ferrari, is because he's a better driver. Nope, the 2007 and 2008 Ferrari's were way out of the league of any of Alonso's cars.

Maybe if Raikkonen had beaten Felipe Massa, then he could've stayed at Ferrari for 2010. You know, that would've been a good start. Unfortunately for the team at Maranello, the guy their hired to replace Schumacher was no better, if not slower than Massa. Nuff' said.

They (Ferrari) needed the best possible line-up ahead of 2010, and sacked the slowest driver out of the three. Simple as that.

Regarding Vettel to Red Bull. According to Horner, he has a contract until 2015 there, so probably not. 2016 at the earliest.

Massa vs Kimi vs blah blah blah blah! Give it a break. Kimi gave Massa an equal thrashing as Alonso in 2012 driving a Lotus. So get a grip about 2008. Raikkonen is a brilliant Ferrari World Champion, nuff said.

Domi on Alonso over Kimi:- "When a car needs to be 'developed', & team fired up Alonso is better"!

Going by that assessment of 2 employees, I'd say Alonso has failed to provide helpful feedback to develop the Ferrari cars; in turn, that statement directly makes Alonso partly at fault why Ferrari are failing to progress. At least Domi must realize that drivers shouldn't be made scapegoats with stupid statements like that.

Kimi- 9 wins, 8 poles, 16 Fastest Laps, 3 Championships.
Alonso- 9 wins, 4 poles, 6 Fastest Laps, 0 Championships.

According to Domi, Alonso was/is directly responsible for Ferrari's push to succeed in making a good car. Fry made a good car... and Massa got it working better than Alonso in the last part of 2012. Alonso going against Pat Fry's assessment that the car is capable of more but both drivers are failing to make the most out of it was quite telling.

Edited by BackOnTop, 09 January 2013 - 08:40.


#66 BackOnTop

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:43

I guess ifs & buts become suddenly more relevant again, when it´sabout the question, why Kimi was beaten by Massa in 2008, why he was less succesful in 2009 than any of Alonso´s seasons at Ferrari.

Furthermore....to use the same bizarre logic...i guess Kimi has to deliver quite soon now, if he don´t wants to turn out to be a total dissapointment for the team, with which Alonso won 2 WDCs.

Lol, sour grapes. This topic is about Ferrari, and Kimi doesn't need to prove anything. He is happy, his fans are happier. Thanks.

#67 garoidb

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:47

Lol, sour grapes. This topic is about Ferrari, and Kimi doesn't need to prove anything. He is happy, his fans are happier. Thanks.


If Kimi does not need to prove anything, why does Fernando need to prove anything? As LiJu914 has observed, there is some symmetry to their positions.

#68 LiJu914

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 08:53

Lol, sour grapes. This topic is about Ferrari, and Kimi doesn't need to prove anything. He is happy, his fans are happier. Thanks.


Unsuprisingly you ave nothing substantial to anwser.
Bringing Kimi into the discussion by yourself and now you suddenly don´t wanna hear about it anymore, when you can´t face the response - amusing.

btw. Nice to see you suspect always a fanboy behind posts, in which performances of certain drivers are rated different. I guess you draw that conclusion from your own behaviour. I for myself don´t care at all about ALO´s fate at Ferrari and would lie, if i would say, that the last years title decider didn´t went the way i preferred. So i´m quite happy myself - and probably happier than a guy, who has go into denial to live with the achievements of his favourite driver.

Edited by LiJu914, 09 January 2013 - 08:57.


#69 smoothcrim

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:03

If Kimi does not need to prove anything, why does Fernando need to prove anything? As LiJu914 has observed, there is some symmetry to their positions.


U for real?

Perhaps because he is driving for them? :drunk:

When the chips are down and its all or nothing and the no1 Ferrari driver is running around slower than the no2 and needs the no2 to take a gearbox penalty to move him up the grid,questions are going to be asked.If he was as fast or faster than Massa in Korea he would of finished ahead of Webber,his crash at Suzuka was Groesjean-esque.

But for his few mistakes,he drove many good races and is in some ways a victim of his own success that he had earlier in the season,which enabled him to be in the championship fight in the first place.

Will be interesting to see how he responds next year,the pressure is on thats how it is at Ferrari.



#70 garoidb

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:12

U for real?

Perhaps because he is driving for them? :drunk:


To Lotus/Enstone, obviously.

#71 smoothcrim

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:28

But Kimi is performing better than expected where Alonso could have performed better.Their situations arent even remotely similar,Lotus is a privateer team now with relatively low expectations compared to Ferrari.

Ferrari want the best driver in the world driving for them,right now thats not Alonso.

#72 LiJu914

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 09:57

Their situations arent even remotely similar,Lotus is a privateer team now with relatively low expectations compared to Ferrari.


It quite easy: If someone wants to pretend that Ferrari is as competitive as they were before the major rule changes - then the same goes for "the Enstone team".


#73 BackOnTop

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:09

It quite easy: If someone wants to pretend that Ferrari is as competitive as they were before the major rule changes - then the same goes for "the Enstone team".

You do realize Kimi Raikkonen has performed better, finishing 3rd in the Championship, then what Alonso did in 2 years that he was with Lotus/Renault after he was chucked out by Mclaren for getting beat by a rookie.

You also do realize that Kimi Raikkonen has achieved more for Ferrari than what Alonso has done. I don't know what your debate analysis are on about.

Technically, Ferrari paid off 20 Million to a driver that brought them glories... Mclaren didn't even feel the need for an underperforming Alonso.

Edited by BackOnTop, 09 January 2013 - 10:12.


#74 LiJu914

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 10:14

You do realize Kimi Raikkonen has performed better, finishing 3rd in the Championship, then what Alonso did in 2 years that he was with Lotus/Renault


Alonso won the WDC two times with Renault - so no...i don´t "realize" your own fantasy.
But as you - for obvious reasons - only want to take a look at ALO´s least successful seasons at Renault:
Do you realize that Alonso performed better @Ferrari than Kimi did there after the major rules changes in 2009 and even in 2008?

You can´t run away from your own hypocrisy, so stop trying it.

Edited by LiJu914, 09 January 2013 - 10:18.


#75 Skinnyguy

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:46

Spygate +point deductions Hungary then.


No, spygate is irrelevant. It´s the diffference to McLaren being 2nd and last, but it doesn´t affect Ferrari´s result in any form.

#76 Skinnyguy

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:53

Sorry fellow Räikkönen fans, but Alonso is performing better now than Räikkönen did during his stint average. No doubt. Their peak performances are similar (Kimi´s second half of 2007 or 2009 VS Alonso´s first half of 2012) but Alonso has been good when not fantastic, and Kimi was average when not fantastic. And Alonso has been fantastic much more often too.

I have no doubt that averaging their careers performance (not their stats), Kimi isn´t even one little step behind Fernando, not at all, but surely Alonso is giving more performance in his Ferrari stint overall than Räikkönen managed to do, titles or not.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 09 January 2013 - 11:55.


#77 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:53

The main problem with Alonso @ Ferrari is that he has has taken the "Team" out of Ferrari & made it an "I, Me, Myself" Irene!

Alonso + Santander forget that Ferrari have 650 employees as well who are working as hard as him. With all the stupid strategies the management play to give Alonso the edge (Germany & Austin)... It only creates a silent rift in the other side of the garage.

Not to forget, these 650 Approx Employees haven't received a Winning Bonus that would help their family financially since Kimi Raikkonen left having provided 3 Championships for the very proud Italian outfit to savour.

If's & But's are not helping anyone at Ferrari, except Alonso, who gets a massive Pay.

Some people here claiming that "everyone" at Ferrari was not happy with Kimi & undermining his achievements as a Ferrari driver as a "excuse" for Alonso's lack of achievements is very sad indeed.


Posted Image

I always thought he looked like Alonso!!!


#78 oetzi

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 11:57

Different era, different drivers, different comments, different management.

Hmm, this smells suspiciously like an outbreak of common sense.

#79 boldhakka

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 14:15

No, spygate is irrelevant. It´s the diffference to McLaren being 2nd and last, but it doesn´t affect Ferrari´s result in any form.


He's saying that McLaren would have been ahead (218 points) of Ferrari (204 points) if you don't count the Hungary WCC points subtraction and the spy gate entire WCC points elimination. Add up the driver points and see.

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#80 BackOnTop

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 14:19

Alonso won the WDC two times with Renault - so no...i don´t "realize" your own fantasy.
But as you - for obvious reasons - only want to take a look at ALO´s least successful seasons at Renault:
Do you realize that Alonso performed better @Ferrari than Kimi did there after the major rules changes in 2009 and even in 2008?

You can´t run away from your own hypocrisy, so stop trying it.

I think you need to go out for fresh air.

Kimi has been with the team for 1 Year... And you desperately want him to do in this solitary year what Alonso did in 8 years with the team. You call that practical analysis.

Ferrari hired Alonso to win Championships; Lotus hired Kimi to finish 5-8 in the Championship. I am hoping you are smart enough to understand the difference about which team got more than they bargained for.

You have lost logic & Way off topic to be discussing Lotus here. You are hurt that Alonso managed to lose out to a kid for 3 years running and hasn't done what Kimi achieved during his time with Ferrari. I have pity for that. Thrashing Kimi isn't going to make Alonso Ferrari's world champion. That crown belongs to Kimi for now. So chill out.

Edited by BackOnTop, 09 January 2013 - 14:44.


#81 Winter98

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 14:43

No one can reasonably say that. Massa was a consistent pole position and race-winning threat in 2007 and 2008. At no point in 2012 was he any of these things, even in his better form later on. Ferrari was still clearly behind Red Bull and Mclaren and was often mixing it up with a few other teams as well. Alonso's WDC chances came from supreme consistency, relentless attack in the races on Sunday and some early season struggles for other teams


Unless you have telemetry that proves differently, you can reasonably say Alonso had the car to win the WDC in 2010 and 2012. I don't understand how you can reasonably say otherwise when Alonso missed out by 4 points in 2010 and 3 points in 2011.

Massa demonstrated the Ferrari had the necessary speed down the stretch in 2012, Alonso just failed to deliver.

#82 ForeverF1

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 14:48

Back to Prost being 'sacked for criticising Ferrari and Alonso not' discussion please.

#83 fabr68

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 14:58

I think you need to go out for fresh air.

Kimi has been with the team for 1 Year... And you desperately want him to do in this solitary year what Alonso did in 8 years with the team. You call that practical analysis.

Ferrari hired Alonso to win Championships; Lotus hired Kimi to finish 5-8 in the Championship. I am hoping you are smart enough to understand the difference about which team got more than they bargained for.

You have lost logic & Way off topic to be discussing Lotus here. You are hurt that Alonso managed to lose out to a kid for 3 years running and hasn't done what Kimi achieved during his time with Ferrari. I have pity for that. Thrashing Kimi isn't going to make Alonso Ferrari's world champion. That crown belongs to Kimi for now. So chill out.


And Renault hired Alonso to finish 5-8 and he delivered four championships.

Seriously. What is the point of bringing up what drivers did in different cars and regulations and using it as a mesurement stick for different cars, seasons and regulations. It is just plain absurd.

Hamilton delivered a championship when Raikkonen never did for Mclaren. You dont see Hamilton fans bringing this up like a broken record.

#84 Winter98

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 14:59

Does that lessen Alonso's right to be critical? No. I believe that Alonso should be allowed to be critical without reprecussion. However, it is Ferrari and they don't take well to that. Obviously Alonso has not crossed whatever line there is in that regard though, as he is still driving for them and they have only praise for him.


Ferrari has no other viable option right now.

If Vettel becomes available, Alonso is expendable.

#85 One

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 15:00

Alonso has been happy at the Ferrari, I thought.

I know that Helmut Marko cannot work for Ferrari, by now, even if he wanted to and make his nose very brown......

#86 fabr68

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 15:11

You cannot compare Prost saying Ferrari is a truck to Alonso saying Ferrari needs to improve. Prost insulted the team and he later apologized.

Even Vettel would get fired by Ferrari for using the same words Prost did. Alonso never said that and what he said was not different of what the experts, and Ferrari themselves said.

#87 boldhakka

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 15:16

You cannot compare Prost saying Ferrari is a truck to Alonso saying Ferrari needs to improve. Prost insulted the team and he later apologized.


:up: The only sensible and relavent comment in this thread.

#88 LiJu914

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 15:40

You are hurt that Alonso managed to lose out to a kid for 3 years running


Obviously your are either not willing or not capable of reading properly. Fabr68 said the rest - so bye and have fun in neverland.

Edited by LiJu914, 09 January 2013 - 16:23.


#89 BackOnTop

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 16:11

You cannot compare Prost saying Ferrari is a truck to Alonso saying Ferrari needs to improve. Prost insulted the team and he later apologized.

Even Vettel would get fired by Ferrari for using the same words Prost did. Alonso never said that and what he said was not different of what the experts, and Ferrari themselves said.

I have read most articles and quotes of the 6 WC's on the grid in 2012... and have failed to see anything 'critical' that Alonso might have said as the topic has dramatized.

Alonso said many things, and apart from his Newey comment... Has not actually said or did much wrong. He may have been a bit over the top with his Ferrari car... But I guess he was the one he drove it to victory in Malayasia.

So it wasn't that bad if he took some credit for that personally... He kinda deserved it for driving to victory.

Nothing close to Prost from Alonso. I think just his Newey comment must have annoyed Pat Fry and his tech department. Just ego clash, nothing that deserves the Prost outcome

#90 Skinnyguy

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 23:04

He's saying that McLaren would have been ahead (218 points) of Ferrari (204 points) if you don't count the Hungary WCC points subtraction and the spy gate entire WCC points elimination. Add up the driver points and see.


I know, and I´m replying that spygate is totally irrelevant to the end result, and it´s not the cause of Ferrari´s victory, as it´s often said.

Oh, and by the way, Alonso didn´t say anything as bad as Prost, as it has been already pointed out. Worse I can think of is him implying he´s fighting Newey (nothing that should hurt his own people if you ask me), downplaying the actual performance sometimes after bad quali sessions (no drama really), and getting wrong the number of races that had passed without updates on the car (again, nothing major). That´s very far from straight name calling and mocking the car.

Edited by Skinnyguy, 09 January 2013 - 23:08.


#91 Morbus

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 00:18

The reason is that Ferrari changed its approach.

This.

#92 oetzi

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:08

That is an interesting fact. When is the last time that a driver left Ferrari in glory?

It would be a singular driver that walked away from a winning Ferrari to join another team.

Edited by oetzi, 10 January 2013 - 03:09.


#93 Seanspeed

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:17

Unless you have telemetry that proves differently, you can reasonably say Alonso had the car to win the WDC in 2010 and 2012. I don't understand how you can reasonably say otherwise when Alonso missed out by 4 points in 2010 and 3 points in 2011.

Massa demonstrated the Ferrari had the necessary speed down the stretch in 2012, Alonso just failed to deliver.

Massa did well at the end. Nobody is denying that. But he won no races. He got no pole positions. He was merely upping his game. The Ferrari did not turn into some WDC contender. If anything, they lost competitiveness at the end there as Red Bull and Mclaren stepped things back up. And Alonso still had 7 podiums in the last 8 races. Thats not failing to deliver. Just sayin - if you're going to use Massa as a benchmark, realize that Alonso did for 3 season long what Massa could only do on rare occasions over the same period.

Alonso is doing a fantastic job at Ferrari. They aren't going to drop him, not because he comes with money, but because he's the best driver available, and possibly the best driver possible to have in F1 at the moment. Alonso's criticisms were grounded and not overly harsh at all. Ferrari know themselves, and have even said on multiple occasions, that their car is what has lacked, not the driver. Its a very realistic approach to it and they aren't deluding themselves over it. They are a far more reasonable team nowadays that many would like to give them credit for. Its not the same Ferrari as 20 years ago.

#94 Winter98

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:26

Massa did well at the end. Nobody is denying that. But he won no races. He got no pole positions. He was merely upping his game. The Ferrari did not turn into some WDC contender. If anything, they lost competitiveness at the end there as Red Bull and Mclaren stepped things back up. And Alonso still had 7 podiums in the last 8 races. Thats not failing to deliver. Just sayin - if you're going to use Massa as a benchmark, realize that Alonso did for 3 season long what Massa could only do on rare occasions over the same period.


I'm saying the Ferrari was a good enough car in both 2010 and 2012 to win the WDC for Alonso. In 2012 Massa proved that down the stretch. Unfortunately for Alonso, under the pressure of a WDC he failed to perform at even Massa's level.

They aren't going to drop him, not because he comes with money, but because he's the best driver available


Agreed. SV is at RBR, JB is at McLaren, KR isn't an option, and they've said they prefer SV to Hamilton. Ferrari would have to gamble on an unproven driver, so I'm not surprised they decided to stick with FA.

#95 skinnylizard

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:53

Prost got fired after a lacklustre season by his standards, also Ferrari in 1991 were still looking for their first WDC since Jody's. It was a time of transition for the team and for Alain as well.

Alonso has driven perhaps one of his greatest seasons ever and the team knows that the car is weak and aren't afraid to admit it (which they would never do in those days) so firing him would be akin to swallowing a grenade.

#96 sheepgobba

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:58

I'm saying the Ferrari was a good enough car in both 2010 and 2012 to win the WDC for Alonso. In 2012 Massa proved that down the stretch. Unfortunately for Alonso, under the pressure of a WDC he failed to perform at even Massa's level.



Agreed. SV is at RBR, JB is at McLaren, KR isn't an option, and they've said they prefer SV to Hamilton. Ferrari would have to gamble on an unproven driver, so I'm not surprised they decided to stick with FA.


Under what pressure did Alonso fail to perform? Won't you watching the 'Entire' season? Saying Alonso failed to perform is absolutely ridiculous.

#97 Showty

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:38

There u have your answers.

Why Ferrari fired Alain Prost...

NOVEMBER 1, 1991
BY JOE SAWARD


Claudio Lombardi is team director of Ferrari and, in theory at least, the man who makes decisions in the Ferrari racing team. We asked him why Alain Prost was not racing in Adelaide. This is what he had to say:

Why is Alain Prost not racing?

"Ferrari took this decision to stop with Alain Prost both for the last Grand Prix and for next season. The relationship between a top driver and a top team involves the performance of the driver and then the behaviour of the driver. For the first point we are very happy with the performance of Alain Prost. I personally worked with Alain for the last four months and I think he is really a very good driver and a fantastic test driver. The second point is behaviour. The behaviour of Alain Prost during this season has not been at the level that Ferrari would like from a top driver. His behaviour inside and outside the team meant that Ferrari had to stop the relationship."

Could you give an example of the behaviour which upset Ferrari?

"There are now legal problems between Ferrari and Alain Prost so I cannot really give you examples of such behaviour. Probably you know what I mean."

Why did the split occur before Adelaide and not after the season had ended?

"In the last week the behaviour of Alain Prost was really worse and worse and Ferrari took this decision."




Posted Image

Domenicali
“He has been extraordinary, not just in the way he has driven, nor because he simply never gave up in the first very difficult part of the season, but mainly for the human qualities he demonstrated within the team
. Where did we lose those three points? Hard to say, but I just want to point out that Fernando ended where he did, having effectively only taken part in 18 of the 20 races: the few hundred metres he covered in Spa and then Suzuka lays heavy like a rock on today's outcome.”



End of the debate, if there was one with such different situations.



#98 garoidb

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:44

I have friends in Italy, and they say there are a lot of people unhappy with Alonso, and that Italian papers started really rating Vettel lately. There's a general opinion that Alonso should talk less. Leo Turrini wrote the other day that he has an impression that something has cracked in the relationship between Alonso and Scuderia.


I think any split would cause more problems for Ferrari than Alonso. Do they really want to be relying on Massa and ... who else? They would need to have Vettel signed up, and even then ...



#99 Fontainebleau

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:07

I have friends in Italy, and they say there are a lot of people unhappy with Alonso, and that Italian papers started really rating Vettel lately. There's a general opinion that Alonso should talk less. Leo Turrini wrote the other day that he has an impression that something has cracked in the relationship between Alonso and Scuderia.

I would not pay too much attention to what Leo Turrini says - particularly when he is happy to acknowledge that his target audience is a group of "Schumacher orphans and Raikkonen widows". His words, not mine - http://club.quotidia...ne_in_nero.html "Raikkoniani amici miei, vedove raikkoniane mie sorelle".

That gives you a pretty good idea of the type of things he would write in order to please said audience.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 10 January 2013 - 12:23.


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#100 BillBald

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 13:38

The truth is that the last time Ferrari produced a pole-grabbing, race-dominating car over a weelemd was in 2008. Its something thats a bit of a concern for us Ferrari fans, since Mclaren and Red Bull have both accomplished this a fair amount over the last few years. 2010 and 2012 were good years, but nothing to brag about from a car perspective. We really have to give a ton of credit to Alonso for putting it in a championship-cabable situation.


If you have a car which can regularly gain places at the start, you maybe don't need a car which qualifies very well.

I don't know what kind of launch control Ferrari have, but it certainly seems to work.