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New team radio in 2012 season review shows Vettel penalty protests


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#1 D.M.N.

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 20:05

http://www.f1fanatic...nalty-protests/

Protests in Spain and Italy reading the article made by Vettel over the team radio in response to penalties given to him. DVD comes out Monday, Blu-Ray on January 14th for anyone wondering.

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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:05

This is up there with Damon thinking his kid is quick.

#3 scheivlak

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:12

http://www.f1fanatic...nalty-protests/

Protests in Spain and Italy

First thought: Still?
Second thought: Again?
Aren't they still over it?

reading the article made by Vettel over the team radio

Next thought: an article made over the team radio :confused:

Then I clicked on the link and somehow got the story......

#4 SpartanChas

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:23

I want rocky to be my race emgineer should I make it to the top.

#5 spacekid

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:27

Interesting, I suppose.

I don't really like this thing of drivers using team radio to try and earn penalties for each other. It reminds me of in football where they play act or whinge at the ref to try and get another player carded. I don't like it.

#6 bourbon

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:32

Rocky and Seb crack me up. I wish we could get more radio - for all the drivers actually. I'm sure they all get a good laugh about these little flare ups as well at season's end.

As for what Button did - I agree. I don't like all the attempts to dole out penalties by drivers via the radio. But I already complained about that in a thread about it at the time and on the whole, Button is a cool dude and a fair sort, so one can imagine he'll take a long hard look at his behavior in this regard and perhaps modify it. Others won't, so sadly, we will probably have more of the win - by - penalty attempts in the future. It really ruins a race.

I may be accused of bias because this was Vettel, but when it was happening to Hamilton (not a favored driver by any stretch), I felt the same way. It is bogus for fans because most of the stuff is either the result of a small infraction or a race incident. When carried out to the end of the race and we must wait 3 hours (sometimes longer) for the "actual" race result, it is a mockery. Something has to be done about that.

Edited by bourbon, 05 January 2013 - 21:39.


#7 aditya-now

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:34

Interesting, I suppose.

I don't really like this thing of drivers using team radio to try and earn penalties for each other. It reminds me of in football where they play act or whinge at the ref to try and get another player carded. I don't like it.


Indeed.

And these radio messages show Vettel, despite all his great qualities, again like an angry cry-baby when things don't go his way.

#8 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:41

So like every other racing driver.

#9 aditya-now

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:51

So like every other racing driver.


You probably know best. ;)


#10 H2H

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:56

Indeed.

And these radio messages show Vettel, despite all his great qualities, again like an angry cry-baby when things don't go his way.


You got it the wrong way around. Button or Alonso are doing in this case the 'play acting' and 'whinge at the ref' do get another player booked. Vettel does the 'what me?', 'I didn't do anything' defense to avoid the card...

Personally I dislike the former behavior vastly more, but maybe because I played CB. ;)

Note that this has become pretty much standard. Everybody seems to do it, but some seem to shout 'talk to Charlie' a bit more...

Edited by H2H, 05 January 2013 - 22:00.


#11 mnmracer

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:56

So the person defending against another driver tagging a penalty on him, is worse than the driver who complained to get said person the penalty?
Interesting, those double standards...

OT: interesting read.
The world feed could definitely become even more interesting when we do hear stuff like this.

#12 Group B

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 21:58

So like every other racing driver.

Quite. Hilarious that anyone would be obtuse enough, and desperate enough, to try and utilise such a non-story as 'my driver's better than yours material'.

#13 jjcale

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:00

Rocky and Seb crack me up. I wish we could get more radio - for all the drivers actually. I'm sure they all get a good laugh about these little flare ups as well at season's end.

As for what Button did - I agree. I don't like all the attempts to dole out penalties by drivers via the radio. But I already complained about that in a thread about it at the time and on the whole, Button is a cool dude and a fair sort, so one can imagine he'll take a long hard look at his behavior in this regard and perhaps modify it. Others won't, so sadly, we will probably have more of the win - by - penalty attempts in the future. It really ruins a race.

I may be accused of bias because this was Vettel, but when it was happening to Hamilton (not a favored driver by any stretch), I felt the same way. It is bogus for fans because most of the stuff is either the result of a small infraction or a race incident. When carried out to the end of the race and we must wait 3 hours (sometimes longer) for the "actual" race result, it is a mockery. Something has to be done about that.


Its amazing how much a pass JB gets on stuff like this for being "a cool dude" .... he's 33 years old... this is who he is... he aint gonna "take a long hard look at his behavior in this regard and perhaps modify it".

That said, I would probably do the same as he did :p

Edited by jjcale, 05 January 2013 - 22:03.


#14 Masenco

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:03

I don't think theres anything wrong with what vettel did, i actually think its great to see someone so pattionate about his driving.
Also i dont think theres much wrong with telling charlie when you see someone breaking the rules, it is a competition and if you believe some one is getting an unfair advantage you will stop them.

#15 prty

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:11

Interesting, I suppose.

I don't really like this thing of drivers using team radio to try and earn penalties for each other. It reminds me of in football where they play act or whinge at the ref to try and get another player carded. I don't like it.


Not to play devil's advocate, but if you were a driver and think a rival driver is breaking a rule, would you stay quiet for sportsmanship's sake, knowing that you could benefit from that? Come on, you have to be realistic, that wouldn't happen even in the Olympics.

That Vettel is quite idiotic with the cases he tries to make over the radio, is a different matter :)

Edited by prty, 05 January 2013 - 22:13.


#16 olliek88

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:12

So like every other racing driver.


This.

A racing driver getting upset/complaining on the radio? Never!

The bit i find ironic is that Kimi gets praised for getting arsey on the radio but Seb gets called a "cry baby". :drunk:

#17 Group B

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:20

This.

A racing driver getting upset/complaining on the radio? Never!

The bit i find ironic is that Kimi gets praised for getting arsey on the radio but Seb gets called a "cry baby". :drunk:

The difference is simple; Kimi hasn't put other fans backs up by beating their heroes for the last three years. Is Vettel sometimes a tit on the radio? Absolutely. But he's far from alone.

#18 Brandz07

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:20

I don't think theres anything wrong with what vettel did, i actually think its great to see someone so pattionate about his driving.
Also i dont think theres much wrong with telling charlie when you see someone breaking the rules, it is a competition and if you believe some one is getting an unfair advantage you will stop them.


:up:

If I saw someone getting an advantage that I didn't think was fair, I'd mention it to my engineer at least.

#19 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:27

So like every other racing driver.


But that's exactly why it's interesting, because some Vettel fans tend to repeat in Alonso-related threads that Alonso is such a lying whiner, and Vettel never does these things.

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#20 Juan Kerr

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:32

This.

A racing driver getting upset/complaining on the radio? Never!

The bit i find ironic is that Kimi gets praised for getting arsey on the radio but Seb gets called a "cry baby". :drunk:

That's because Vettel is a cry-baby and Kimi is not I would imagine.

#21 EvanRainer

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:35

riiight :rolleyes:

#22 Clatter

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:39

You got it the wrong way around. Button or Alonso are doing in this case the 'play acting' and 'whinge at the ref' do get another player booked. Vettel does the 'what me?', 'I didn't do anything' defense to avoid the card...

Personally I dislike the former behavior vastly more, but maybe because I played CB.;)

Note that this has become pretty much standard. Everybody seems to do it, but some seem to shout 'talk to Charlie' a bit more...


Do they? How do you know? The snippets of radio we get cannot be used to indicate any driver shouts more than another.

#23 apoka

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 22:41

Seems to be an attempt to sell more DVDs.

In essence the story is that Button saw Vettel using DRS in a yellow flag zone and complained. Vettel is angry about the penalty, because he had everything under control and didn't go too fast despite DRS in his opinion. They often have those kind of (non-)stories to make the DVDs more interesting. But anyway, it's off season, so we can discuss it to death.


#24 drunkenmaster

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 23:46

WHAT??? Vettel complained on radio about a penalty which Button earned him by complaining on radio about him? How dare he, that nasty kid...... :drunk:

#25 study

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:39

But I already complained about that in a thread about it at the time and on the whole, Button is a cool dude and a fair sort, so one can imagine he'll take a long hard look at his behavior in this regard and perhaps modify it. Others won't, so sadly, we will probably have more of the win - by - penalty attempts in the future. It really ruins a race.


He isn't really, but he's made a good image of it. The moaning all the time, The sly digs at lewis this year, the brawn moaning, the contract issues, I wonder where he gets this cool image from?

#26 Disgrace

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:45

This is up there with Damon thinking his kid is quick.


:up: Move along folks.

#27 goldenboy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 00:54

no probs with drivers complaining for a penalty on the radio (they are part of a team of hundreds spending hundreds of millions - it's their job to do so really!) and even less of a problem with a driver complaining about being penalised. At least vettel seems to keep his complaining in the car during the heat of the moment and doesn't drag it out in the media afterwards so much.

#28 bourbon

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:33

Its amazing how much a pass JB gets on stuff like this for being "a cool dude" .... he's 33 years old... this is who he is... he aint gonna "take a long hard look at his behavior in this regard and perhaps modify it".

That said, I would probably do the same as he did :p


That made me laugh so hard, :lol: You may be right, but he did improve his qually, despite his age, so I imagine if he put his mind to it, he could change his point of view. I wouldn't mind so much if the FIA was efficient and consistent with their penalties, but as it stands...

#29 race addicted

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:51

I've never felt there was any similarity at all, between Vettel and Räikkönen on the team-radio. At all.

#30 BillBald

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 02:13

Its amazing how much a pass JB gets on stuff like this for being "a cool dude" .... he's 33 years old... this is who he is... he aint gonna "take a long hard look at his behavior in this regard and perhaps modify it".

That said, I would probably do the same as he did :p


Maybe JB has changed his behaviour - it's only in the last few years that we've heard him complaining about other drivers and trying to get them penalised. Probably because other drivers have been doing it to him.



#31 Juggles

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:34

The difference is simple; Kimi hasn't put other fans backs up by beating their heroes for the last three years. Is Vettel sometimes a tit on the radio? Absolutely. But he's far from alone.


Actually that isn't the only difference. Raikkonen was giving his race engineer some stick in a personal exchange which was then made public; Vettel came on to the radio with the express intention of his messages being passed on to the race controller.

That said, I don't see much to criticise in this, neither what Button did (people are seriously criticising him for being a tattle tale when championship points were on the line? Vettel broke the rules, should he have gotten away with it?) nor what Vettel did (using all the tools at his disposal to avoid a race-damaging penalty; sadly, drivers applying pressure on Whiting mid-race has become the norm).

#32 Juggles

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:36

Maybe JB has changed his behaviour - it's only in the last few years that we've heard him complaining about other drivers and trying to get them penalised. Probably because other drivers have been doing it to him.


Or because it's only since he moved to the front of the grid that his radio has started being broadcast on a regular basis?

Given the amount Button complains out of the car it's reasonable to think he's a bit of a whiner inside it as well.

#33 fabr68

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 04:48

As for what Button did - I agree. I don't like all the attempts to dole out penalties by drivers via the radio. But I already complained about that in a thread about it at the time and on the whole, Button is a cool dude and a fair sort, so one can imagine he'll take a long hard look at his behavior in this regard and perhaps modify it. Others won't, so sadly, we will probably have more of the win - by - penalty attempts in the future. It really ruins a race.


Winning a race by breaking the rules and lack of getting penalized ruins races even more. I don't see how an attempts to dole out penalties can be worst than breaking the rules and putting yourself in a position to get penalized to begin with.

Button or anyone else will never change such "behavior". If they see the driver in front or behind them breaking the rules, they will call them for it.


#34 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:20

This thread will be a lot more interesting in 2013 when we get the snippets of Jenson whining on Lewis.

#35 SpaMaster

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:56

Of course he would. Monza penalty is a Ferrari special, that's all. As for Spain, at that time you only have to slow down, does not matter if you use DRS or KERS. There was a previous precedent with DRS use like that.

Edited by SpaMaster, 06 January 2013 - 08:18.


#36 jstrains

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:08

Vettel's penalty in Monza is completely irrelevant as he had a DNF later in the race :wave:

#37 Sakae

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:14

You got it the wrong way around. Button or Alonso are doing in this case the 'play acting' and 'whinge at the ref' do get another player booked. Vettel does the 'what me?', 'I didn't do anything' defense to avoid the card...

Personally I dislike the former behavior vastly more, but maybe because I played CB.;)

Note that this has become pretty much standard. Everybody seems to do it, but some seem to shout 'talk to Charlie' a bit more...

I am on the same wavelength.

#38 Zava

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:33

Vettel's penalty in Monza is completely irrelevant as he had a DNF later in the race :wave:

~I killed a man, but it was totally irrelevant as he was in the closing stages of cancer.

#39 goldenboy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:28

Vettel's penalty in Monza is completely irrelevant as he had a DNF later in the race :wave:

umm no. Just..no.

Vettel has boxed himself in a bit of a corner though with his statements that he would not complain over the radio, or something to that tune. Since all drivers do, he may as well too, but now the only outcome for him is to say nothing and be at a disadvantage or to complain and be heavily criticised for being a hypocrite. He should have not commented this to the media really, for his own sake.

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#40 Muppetmad

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 09:35

I'm no Vettel fan, but I see no issue with what he said. When you're doing something that is both a) highly strenuous and b) you have an emotional investment in, you're likely to defend yourself. His hysterics at Austin made me raise an eyebrow, but these ones aren't an issue. Was he correct? Perhaps not. But to expect a driver not to defend themselves is ridiculous.

Edited by Muppetmad, 06 January 2013 - 09:37.


#41 HappyPhantom

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:10

umm no. Just..no.

Vettel has boxed himself in a bit of a corner though with his statements that he would not complain over the radio, or something to that tune. Since all drivers do, he may as well too, but now the only outcome for him is to say nothing and be at a disadvantage or to complain and be heavily criticised for being a hypocrite. He should have not commented this to the media really, for his own sake.


I think he meant not complaining for others getting penalty's. I don't remember it as him saying he never complained. There's a difference I feel.
And it's easy to say he should comment on this or that because it might come bite him in the ass, but seriously than he might as well shut up. If you talk long enough everybody can be seen as a hypocrite at some point.

#42 tifosiMac

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:17

All drivers have a little whine on the radio from time to time. Its just amusing when you hear Vettel doing it because its usually his fans pointing the finger at others (no pun intended).

#43 Absulute

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:31

All seems like a bit of a non-story.

So Vettel likes to cry on the radio. We already knew that, and he certainly isn't alone.

#44 Baddoer

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:00

What, Vettel is a cheater, rule-breaker and a whiner? Nothing new here, get back to your duties please.

Edited by Baddoer, 06 January 2013 - 18:00.


#45 bourbon

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:31

umm no. Just..no.

Vettel has boxed himself in a bit of a corner though with his statements that he would not complain over the radio, or something to that tune. Since all drivers do, he may as well too, but now the only outcome for him is to say nothing and be at a disadvantage or to complain and be heavily criticised for being a hypocrite. He should have not commented this to the media really, for his own sake.


You should check before you start condemning a driver for things - admitting you are not certain what he says does not take the place of checking if you are going to go on to condemn the driver. Sebastian didn't say that he would not complain on the radio in general to his RE or regarding justified infractions that Charlie needs to hear about or debrie on the track, etc.; he said he was against so many complaints to Charlie by drivers for what amounted to racing incidents and that is the behavior he was going to curtail and he did.

#46 olliek88

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 18:47

he said he was against so many complaints to Charlie by drivers for what amounted to racing incidents and that is the behavior he was going to curtail and he did.


How many times have drivers complained to Charlie about racing incidents? I can't recall any.

#47 encircled

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 19:55

How many times have drivers complained to Charlie about racing incidents? I can't recall any.

Webber-Maldonado Abu Dhabi and Massa-Webber Abu Dhabi IIRC.

OT: I'm looking for Webber's radio after the WEB-MAL incident but I saw this one instead. :D

Can't find the Webber radio snippet, but if I'm not mistaken, he said "Did you see that?" or something to that effect.

Edited by encircled, 06 January 2013 - 20:20.


#48 olliek88

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:25

Webber-Maldonado Abu Dhabi and Massa-Webber Abu Dhabi IIRC.

OT: I'm looking for Webber's radio after the WEB-MAL incident but I saw this one instead. :D

Can't find the Webber radio snippet, but if I'm not mistaken, he said "Did you see that?" or something to that effect.


That wasn't to Charlie though, it was just a general moan to Smedley.

#49 mlsnoopy

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:27

Who cares

#50 encircled

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 20:34

That wasn't to Charlie though, it was just a general moan to Smedley.

OK fair enough.