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Yeoman Credit colour schemes


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#1 Mal9444

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:18

I asked this question in the Racing Collectables section but answer came there none. Given the wider participant base of the main TNF section I hope no one will mind if I ask it here.

Did Yeoman Credit Coopers always have both the red nose cone and the red stripe down the tail? More specifically, did Moss's Cooper at Watkins Glen in October 1959 have a red stripe down the tail? The picture of the car in All My Races does not show the tail while that in Doug's Stirling Moss My Cars My Career is not clear but appears to show that it did not.

I should be very grateful if anyone could post, or point me to, a clear picture of the car - preferably in colour!

And while I'm at it: was this the car he then raced in New Zealand in January 1960, again under Yeoman Credit colours?

Not a big Ask, then...

Thank you

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#2 Tim Murray

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:39

This doesn't help answer Malcolm's specific questions, but here are a couple of earlier threads covering BRP, Yeoman Credit and Bowmaker colour schemes:

Light green

Yeoman Credit/Bowmaker

#3 David McKinney

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 11:54

The car used by Moss at Watkins Glen and Ardmore did not have a red stripe on the tail. Nor did it have the distinctive high tail-fin used by most team cars during 1960

Some cars at least ran without the red tail-stripe in 1960 European races as well

#4 Mal9444

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 15:02

The car used by Moss at Watkins Glen and Ardmore did not have a red stripe on the tail. Nor did it have the distinctive high tail-fin used by most team cars during 1960

Some cars at least ran without the red tail-stripe in 1960 European races as well


Thank you, David (and Tim).
:wave:


#5 grandprix61

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:35

The car used by Moss at Watkins Glen and Ardmore did not have a red stripe on the tail. Nor did it have the distinctive high tail-fin used by most team cars during 1960

Some cars at least ran without the red tail-stripe in 1960 European races as well

Here is Gendebein at Watkins Glen during the 1060 Formula race. There were two Cooper cars entered for Bonnier and Gendebein. Ron Nelson - photographer. for more images visit. www.classicvintagemotorsports.com

Posted Image


#6 grandprix61

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:43

Here is Gendebein at Watkins Glen during the 1060 Formula race. There were two Cooper cars entered for Bonnier and Gendebein. Ron Nelson - photographer. for more images visit. www.classicvintagemotorsports.com

Posted Image

o.k. typing copy late at night. Gendebien for spelling and here is another shot of the Bonnier car in the pits. Thanks, Ron N.

Posted Image


#7 David McKinney

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:11

These clearly show the detail differences from the Moss car of a year earlier

#8 D-Type

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:33

Here is Gendebein at Watkins Glen during the 1960 Formula race. There were two Cooper cars entered for Bonnier and Gendebein. Ron Nelson - photographer. For more images visit. www.classicvintagemotorsports.com


Lots of interesting photos there. It's a shame that none of them are captioned.

#9 Barry Boor

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:48

And people tell me my Yeoman Credit green is too light.

You can't get much lighter than the colour shown in those pictures; it would be white!

Edited by Barry Boor, 07 January 2013 - 11:48.


#10 Mal9444

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 16:28

And people tell me my Yeoman Credit green is too light.

You can't get much lighter than the colour shown in those pictures; it would be white!


Barry. I am told by experts that the Yeoman scheme was simply "BRP green with red nose and tail stripe". This is your BRP BRM P25 alongside my Yeoman Credit Cooper:

Posted Image

and we both know what the Man Who Drove the BRP BRM to second place in the '59 British GP said when he saw your model. "You can tell Barry Boor that he's got the colour absolutely right": you've got a signed photo to prove it.

So if you've used your BRP green for your Yeoman Credit green, you can't be too far wrong. And I need another re-paint on my Cooper.


With apologies to all for allowing toy cars to stray into the grown-ups' area: please all be careful where you tread :)

Edited by Mal9444, 07 January 2013 - 16:38.


#11 Bloggsworth

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 21:41

I always thought of the YC cars as eau de nil and the BRP ones a bit lighter with less yellow.

#12 Mal9444

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 22:00

I always thought of the YC cars as eau de nil and the BRP ones a bit lighter with less yellow.

As in the picture above (of the toys)?

#13 Barry Boor

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 22:47

Sad to relate that when I had my can of Toyota 521 mixed here in Malta, it came out looking just like the green on the Cooper above, NOT the B.R.M.

#14 grandprix61

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:01

Lots of interesting photos there. It's a shame that none of them are captioned.

Drop me an email and I will try to help you out. It would be to hard to catalog and keep track if I captioned them all. thanks for looking. Ron

#15 Barry Boor

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 22:12

A fairly rare sight to see the rear wheels on Gendebien's car. Rather strange fixing device too, as far as one can see.

Well spotted by someone not a million miles from New Zealand.

#16 Roger Clark

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:37

Can anyone tell me more about the wire wheels on that Cooper? Did it race on other occasions with them?

#17 David McKinney

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:54

Frankly, I didn't think it had at all...

Have just checked my 87 canned photos of Yeoman Credit T51s (most of them useless for the purpose) and find Henry Taylor used rear wires at Brands Hatch on 01/08/60

#18 Roger Clark

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 17:25

If the Black Book is correct, Taylor's car at Brands Hatch was F2-2-59 and was used by him at Oporto, Snetterton, Oulton Park and Riverside. Is there any evidence that it had wire wheels at these races?

The other interesting question is why they converted a car (or two cars) to wire wheels at that stage of the season. Were they thinking of Monza?

#19 David McKinney

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 18:51

If the Black Book is correct, Taylor's car at Brands Hatch was F2-2-59 and was used by him at Oporto, Snetterton, Oulton Park and Riverside. Is there any evidence that it had wire wheels at these races?

Definitely not at Oporto - photos from the other Taylor races you mention aren't from the right angle to see...


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#20 Roger Clark

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 08:17

So, does this mean:

(1) Taylor drove different cars at Brands Hatch and Oporto, or
(2) YC converted a car to wire wheels for Brands Hatch and back to alloys for Oporto (and if so, why)?

and

(3) Gendebien drove the same car at Watkins Glen as Taylor drove at Brands Hatch, or
(4) YC had two cars converted to wire wheels (and if so, why)?

Or

(5) some othe possibility?

Edited by Roger Clark, 12 January 2013 - 08:19.


#21 David McKinney

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:30

Yes

Sorry, can't help further

Taylor's (alloy-wheel) car was badly damaged at Oporto, but not so badly that it couldn't have been repaired for the Glen (and wire wheels (re)fitted)

#22 Mal9444

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 15:11

Can anyone tell me more about the wire wheels on that Cooper? Did it race on other occasions with them?


Moss used wire (rear) wheels on his Cooper at the 1959 Italian GP at Monza - although I appreciate it was not 'that Cooper'.


#23 D-Type

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 15:35

How difficult a job was it to change to and from wire wheels? Clearly the hubs had to be changed - but what else?

Edited by D-Type, 13 January 2013 - 15:36.


#24 Roger Clark

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 00:22

I don't know how long it would take to change the hubs but the question is, why?

Moss had wire wheels at the 1959 Italian Grand Prix because they thought (or perhaps wanted Ferrari to think they thought) that a tyre change might be necessary. Monza was hard on tyres. I can't believe that the same consideration applied to the 1960 races where we know that YC used them. Both were relatively short races and Dunlop had introduced a new tyre in 1960. There had been no durability problems except at Monza.

It's possible that some drivers preferred the handling with the less rigid wire wheels, as Moss did with the Vanwall, but this is more likely to affect the front wheels.

It's also possible that YC suffered from a shortage of suitable alloys but the Cooper wheels seemed to be plentiful.

#25 bradbury west

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 00:35

Don't forget that Trintignant's Walker Cooper in '59 ran wire wheels all round from the start, IIRC.
Roger Lund

#26 Roger Clark

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:36

Don't forget that Trintignant's Walker Cooper in '59 ran wire wheels all round from the start, IIRC.
Roger Lund

At Monaco and Zandvoort, I think. That was the early days of 2.5-litre Coopers so they were still experimenting a bit. I don't think it helps tell us why YC did it in late 1960.

#27 David McKinney

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:41

Has anyone got Tony Robinson's book? That might help