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Felipe Nasr : 3 years after rejecting RBR


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#1 gillesthegenius

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:44

Three years on, was Felipe Nasr right to reject the opportunity to make his way into f1 via the RBR young driver programme and join the Robertsons?

What do you guys think? Has that decision enhanced his career or has it back fired on him? And what are his future prospects?

Discuss...

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#2 Kingshark

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:02

This season in GP2 he must prove himself. If he can win the championship, or at least finish second, that should earn him an F1 seat, and in which case, he's made the right decision not to become Helmut Marko's b*tch.

On the other hand however, if he can't impress in GP2 and runs out of money, then it's definitely the wrong decision.

In 12-24 months time, we'll look at this thread with hindsight.

#3 Wander

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:20

Does not make any difference. He either is good enough or he isn't.

#4 F1ultimate

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:30

This season in GP2 he must prove himself. If he can win the championship, or at least finish second, that should earn him an F1 seat,


We no longer live in the era of 2004-2207 during which are GP2 victory wouldn't almost guarantee you a seat. Nasr has potential but unless he gets a telecom, gas or steel magnet behind him he will not get into a competitive F1 car.

#5 Victor_RO

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 10:43

He raced at the Daytona 24 last year as winner of a competition in British national motorsport championships, this year he's been called back by one of the front-running teams. So if GP2 fails, he might have the sportscar avenue open.

#6 noikeee

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 11:05

He raced at the Daytona 24 last year as winner of a competition in British national motorsport championships, this year he's been called back by one of the front-running teams. So if GP2 fails, he might have the sportscar avenue open.


No disrespect to the sportscar scene (and I know you're a fan) but that's plan B for every driver that just about misses out on F1... not news. That door is opened to them all really, it's just that it's the last resort and they cling on to F1 as long as they can.

Nasr has been a little disappointing to me, I expected him to light up GP2 and become a star but it hasn't happened. He's still quite young (20 years old) and can still get the hype back on his side if he performs this year - bar this last season his CV is still excellent, and 1 year of underperforming whilst learning as a rookie in a series is acceptable -, but if he doesn't he's going to be forgotten very soon.

As for Red Bull, as long he's not performing it's a little irrelevant if he's with them or not isn't it. He's not getting to F1 on these performances unless he splashes the cash.

Edited by noikeee, 07 January 2013 - 11:07.


#7 Brandz07

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:43

Does not make any difference. He either is good enough or he isn't.


It seemed to add something extra to Da Costa, probably just a coincidence though!

#8 Iscurrega

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 14:23

We no longer live in the era of 2004-2207 during which are GP2 victory wouldn't almost guarantee you a seat. Nasr has potential but unless he gets a telecom, gas or steel magnet behind him he will not get into a competitive F1 car.

We live that era

Are you from the future?

#9 7MGTEsup

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 15:02

We live that era

Are you from the future?


Erm my calender says its 2013 some 6 years after the dates in that post. Welcome to the future.

Ha ha just noticed that said 2027 not 2007 lol Doh

Edited by 7MGTEsup, 07 January 2013 - 15:05.


#10 SonnyViceR

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 15:14

No disrespect to the sportscar scene (and I know you're a fan) but that's plan B for every driver that just about misses out on F1... not news. That door is opened to them all really, it's just that it's the last resort and they cling on to F1 as long as they can.


While this might be the case with F1 rejects and others who failed to show impression on the spec single seater feeder series ladder system (or those who didn't have deep enough cash pockets or famous daddies), many drivers today won't even bother with the F1 route and it's 0,0001% chace of actually working out, but intead plan a professional career in sports cars cars or touring cars from the start. Not everybody has the same aims.

Plus, "that door is open to them all really" isn't strictly the case, even being good in acclaimed single seater series doesn't guarantee you a drive in non-privateer sportscar teams

#11 noikeee

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 15:49

While this might be the case with F1 rejects and others who failed to show impression on the spec single seater feeder series ladder system (or those who didn't have deep enough cash pockets or famous daddies), many drivers today won't even bother with the F1 route and it's 0,0001% chace of actually working out, but intead plan a professional career in sports cars cars or touring cars from the start. Not everybody has the same aims.


Fair enough and that's only sensible of them, but we're talking a guy who's on GP2 here. Everyone's goal on GP2 and other similar high-profile single seater series is F1 obviously.

Plus, "that door is open to them all really" isn't strictly the case, even being good in acclaimed single seater series doesn't guarantee you a drive in non-privateer sportscar teams


I'm not suggesting there's an Audi LMP1 seat in waiting for all of them, neither that every F1 reject will be a great sportscar driver (some will.. most won't), but even if you're pretty bad on GP2 chances are there'll be something in waiting there at some level, even if it's just a backmarker privateer car in an obscure national GT series. Unless you've bankrupted yourself buying the seat on GP2.

#12 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 16:00

unless he gets a telecom, gas or steel magnet behind him he will not get into a competitive F1 car.


Well, he's backed by Banco do Brasil (a bank), OGX (an oil and gas company), and Noma do Brasil (which is a manufacturer of trucks and the like), so he's doing well.

#13 F1ultimate

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 16:56

Well, he's backed by Banco do Brasil (a bank), OGX (an oil and gas company), and Noma do Brasil (which is a manufacturer of trucks and the like), so he's doing well.


That's a really good and probably the backing he needs given the sheer wealth of seasoned drivers that are currently on the sidelines dreaming of returning to the sport, so new talent really need to stand out whether it's through talent or financial backing.

#14 Jackman

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 17:49

Maybe, but the difference you need in financial support to get you into GP2 vs to get you into F1 is enormous, and most F1 teams have existing relationships - I do wonder where the wall is going to be hit in the sponsorship of protege vs return on investment conflict.

#15 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 17:53

The average driver salary would have to swell massively to even recoup your initial investment.



#16 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 18:08

Nasr has been a little disappointing to me, I expected him to light up GP2 and become a star but it hasn't happened. He's still quite young (20 years old) and can still get the hype back on his side if he performs this year - bar this last season his CV is still excellent, and 1 year of underperforming whilst learning as a rookie in a series is acceptable -, but if he doesn't he's going to be forgotten very soon.


As you say, he was learning GP2 last year. And the only rookie to best him last season did have experiences from GP3, which I imagine transfers to GP2 slightly better than F3. And also he came out at the end of the season and said that DAMS basically only have the ability to support one car - while I would rather he had kept it to himself, as it smacks slightly of throwing his toys out of the pram, it would explain a quiet season if true (and also could shed light on Pal Varhaug's appalling 2011).

#17 Kyo

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 19:03

I will be really disappointed if Nasr doesn't make it to F1.

1st year at formulas with 16yo and he completely dominated it against drivers like Frijns, Juncadella, Harvey and Jaafar finishing with 392 points against 288 from Juncadella and 265 from Frijns.
2nd year at British F3 he had a pretty decent championship and was only behind of older/more experienced drivers.
3rd year he remained at British F3 and dominated it. 318 points against 237 from Magnussen in second place.
4th year he goes to GP2 and didn't do as well as I expected, but wasn't as average as the standing showed. He had some impressive drivings, specially coming from the far back of the field.

5th year I hope he will be at least a title contender in GP2, if not, I see his chances drastically diminishing.

About the op question, I don't think it made any difference till now. He will only regret not signing with RBR if he manages to do well this year in gp2 but has no funding to grab a F1 seat.

#18 olliek88

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 19:12

It was a pretty ballsy decision to make but he's not the only one to have done it (Frijns did too) and the biggest advantage is your destiny is in your hands, with the RB program they tell you when and where to race, no say at all.

Last season was a bit of a disappointment but last year GP2 had a hell of a lot of experienced drivers, his first season in British F3 wasn't anything special but he dominated it in his second season, i'm hoping its a case of Deja Vu. He's racing for Carlin next season and, no disrespect to Max Chilton, if Max can finish 4th the standings i'm hopeful that Felipe will be in the hunt, Carlin got better as the season went on too so that could be a good pointer for next season.

I think it'll be between him, Calado and maybe one or two of the more experienced guys next season.

#19 Imperial

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 19:40

Go and ask the trail of drivers dumped by Red Bull over many years if they regret having not gone their own way instead of with Red Bull.

They have certainly put up the funds in a bid to further many careers, but there is a reasonable argument they have destroyed more careers than helped.

I have thought for a few years that Felipe has the talent to reach F1 with no cash at all. If he can annihilate the competition on his way to the GP2 title this year, not just win it by a few points, I think he could well do that.

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#20 ed24f1

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 00:18

I hope he has a strong 2013! I had a chat with him at Monza train station after the race this year and he was quite disappointed with DAMS as they were only really putting effort into Valsecchi, so it will be interesting to see how he goes in a new environment this year.

#21 Peat

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 13:57

I hope he has a strong 2013! I had a chat with him at Monza train station after the race this year and he was quite disappointed with DAMS as they were only really putting effort into Valsecchi, so it will be interesting to see how he goes in a new environment this year.


Any driver being out-gunned by a team-mate will make it sound like they are getting sub-standard treatment. Whether it's true or not.

I think he did ok for a 'rookie' season, but way too many incidents and penalties.

As for him rejecting RBR, i think it was probably the right move. The way he has done it, he has created relationships with numerous sponsors, had some control over where he goes etc. He would have been chewed up and spat out by the RB machine by now and left with no sponsors whatsoever.


#22 V3TT3L

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 16:36


Globo TV broadcast after GP2 Hungary, after 50 sec.:

Bernie spoke for some minutes with Nasr:
"I'm here, anytime. If you need an advise, come after me."
"I need a brazilian driver."
“I spoke to some team managers and they are really impressed about how he [Nasr] evolved along the years."

Nasr:
"It's the first contact and I hope the first of many in the future"


#23 aditya-now

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 16:43

This season in GP2 he must prove himself. If he can win the championship, or at least finish second, that should earn him an F1 seat, and in which case, he's made the right decision not to become Helmut Marko's b*tch.

On the other hand however, if he can't impress in GP2 and runs out of money, then it's definitely the wrong decision.

In 12-24 months time, we'll look at this thread with hindsight.


It's always the right decision not to become anyone's bitch....

However, Bernie Ecclestone is supporting Felipe and that should bode well for the young Brazilian who definitely has what it takes!

#24 spaceace1977

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 17:33

Not a single win in his GP2 career so far. Consistent but no win. That kinda worries me. His results are not that impressive.

But with the backing he's got, I assume he makes it to F1 in 2015.

#25 olliek88

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 17:55

He's not had a win but, too an extent, that's not entirely his fault. Silverstone he was run off the road when taking P1 from Ericsson which, through a chain of events, cost him the win and worse than that was Hungary, he was running comfortably in P1 when Carling made a hash of his strategy allowing Ericcson to get the undercut on him and then ran his team mate Palmer on a "false" prime/prime strategy effectively giving him (Palmer) an open goal for the win.

Things haven't gone perfectly for him so far but the fact he is consistently at the front is a good sign, whilst Coletti's, Calado's and Leimer's form has fluctuated significantly his hasn't. I'm confident he'll get that first win soon and when he gets that monkey off his back he'll get a big boost, he looked gutted on the podium after Hungary and i get help feeling the fact he hasn't won is yet bothering him.

Edited by olliek88, 05 August 2013 - 17:55.


#26 luispaulob

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 18:19


I'm really surprised that people think that just because he didnt still didnt win in GP2, it means he is not ready for F1. Come on, hes only in his second season, hes only 20 years old and already shows an incredible consistency. The win didnt come yet for many reasons, but nothing to do with his talent. The guy won absolutely EVERYTHING in his career.

So, explain something to me: why the likes of Calado (who has been extremely disappointing this season), da Costa (another disappointing season), and others seems to have the preference from some of you?

#27 sopa

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 18:45

Not a single win in his GP2 career so far. Consistent but no win. That kinda worries me. His results are not that impressive.

But with the backing he's got, I assume he makes it to F1 in 2015.


Yeah, maybe not a future F1 champion, but an okayish midfield driver. Perhaps a next Perez kind of driver.

#28 SpartanChas

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 18:50

I'm really surprised he still hasn't won a race. It's been a long time coming.

#29 spaceace1977

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 20:11

I'm really surprised that people think that just because he didnt still didnt win in GP2, it means he is not ready for F1. Come on, hes only in his second season, hes only 20 years old and already shows an incredible consistency. The win didnt come yet for many reasons, but nothing to do with his talent. The guy won absolutely EVERYTHING in his career.

So, explain something to me: why the likes of Calado (who has been extremely disappointing this season), da Costa (another disappointing season), and others seems to have the preference from some of you?


Maybe he is not that talented? So far Nasr scored zero victories and zero pole positions.

Phenomenal talented guys score in there first season. You want a shot at F1 it is almost mandatory to score big time in your second season in dominant form. Success in your 3rd season (or onwards) is too late..look at valsecchie

#30 ardbeg

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 20:57

"I need a brazilian driver."

Guess that tells us two things:
1. No Massa next season
2. It was Massa's nationality that kept him in the Ferrari seat this long

#31 F1ultimate

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 21:35

I think consistency is a talent of its own. Especially in GP2 where the chances of getting into trouble is very high. His confidence to push can be built up and improved. I rather see a level headed midfielder in F1 than too many crash prone hot heads like Grosjean, Maldonado and Petrov, though I would hate for Felipe Nasr to be a boring Steady Eddy like Di Resta.

#32 luispaulob

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 21:55

Maybe he is not that talented? So far Nasr scored zero victories and zero pole positions.

Phenomenal talented guys score in there first season. You want a shot at F1 it is almost mandatory to score big time in your second season in dominant form. Success in your 3rd season (or onwards) is too late..look at valsecchie



Wins do not mean talent.. Come on, he could easily win a race if he used Palmer's tactics in Hungaroring. But he chose to look at the championship. And, it's been a really long time that a first comer has won the title in his first season (Hulkenberg), but not because of the lack of talent, but because GP2 has become a place where experience counts a lot..

Nasr - 2 season

Colletti - 4 season

Leimer - 4 season (i think)

Calado - 2 season (not so good as Nasr this year hein?)

And we should look at the teams as well.. Carlin has never been a top player in GP2, it has won some races in the past but thats it. Compared with Russian Time (ex Isport), ART, Racing Engineering, etc, Carlin doesn't have the same experience in dealing with a title contender

#33 noikeee

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 23:30

I'm suspicious of "consistent" drivers in the junior ladder. You can learn consistency, whereas it's harder to learn pace. Blistering pace in some races and then being nowhere in others tends to be a better indicator of potential than consistent 4th places.

But Nasr is very young and had some impressive results prior to GP2. He's on that awkward spot where I can't entirely rule him out as it'd be unfair for such a young driver really, whilst I struggle to see superstar potential in him neither.

#34 William Hunt

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 00:44

Go and ask the trail of drivers dumped by Red Bull over many years if they regret having not gone their own way instead of with Red Bull.


A better question to ask is: would the likes of Scott Speed, Sébastien Buemi or Jaime Alguersuari have made it to F1 without Red Bull. I have very very serious doubts about that. At least they got to race in F1 for multiple seasons, that is not a bad deal and Buemi currently is a factory Toyota Le Mans driver (and still is part of Red Bull) so he, in contrary to Speed or Alguersuari, is not too bad off after he left F1. Would Ricciardo or Vergne have made it in to F1 without Red Bull? Maybe but since there are few seats nowadays and since paydrivers are important again I have my doubts.

Edited by William Hunt, 06 August 2013 - 00:45.


#35 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 01:19


Globo TV broadcast after GP2 Hungary, after 50 sec.:

Bernie spoke for some minutes with Nasr:
"I'm here, anytime. If you need an advise, come after me."
"I need a brazilian driver."
“I spoke to some team managers and they are really impressed about how he [Nasr] evolved along the years."

Nasr:
"It's the first contact and I hope the first of many in the future"

Be careful Felipe.
You lie down with dogs, and you wake up with fleas.

#36 Thomas99

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:39

No disrespect to the sportscar scene (and I know you're a fan) but that's plan B for every driver that just about misses out on F1... not news. That door is opened to them all really, it's just that it's the last resort and they cling on to F1 as long as they can.

Nasr has been a little disappointing to me, I expected him to light up GP2 and become a star but it hasn't happened. He's still quite young (20 years old) and can still get the hype back on his side if he performs this year - bar this last season his CV is still excellent, and 1 year of underperforming whilst learning as a rookie in a series is acceptable -, but if he doesn't he's going to be forgotten very soon.

As for Red Bull, as long he's not performing it's a little irrelevant if he's with them or not isn't it. He's not getting to F1 on these performances unless he splashes the cash.

He's taking the Kimi Raikkonen route to the title. Always finish in healthy points paying positions.

#37 Thomas99

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:41

A better question to ask is: would the likes of Scott Speed, Sébastien Buemi or Jaime Alguersuari have made it to F1 without Red Bull. I have very very serious doubts about that. At least they got to race in F1 for multiple seasons, that is not a bad deal and Buemi currently is a factory Toyota Le Mans driver (and still is part of Red Bull) so he, in contrary to Speed or Alguersuari, is not too bad off after he left F1. Would Ricciardo or Vergne have made it in to F1 without Red Bull? Maybe but since there are few seats nowadays and since paydrivers are important again I have my doubts.

Probably not.

But they both absolutely deserve the chance.

Having said that, I'm struggling to understand Vergne's lack of 1 lap pace. He looked incredible quick in Fr3.5 and short of a few standout wet weather drives he hasnt done a lot in F1.

#38 Kyo

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 05:04

It's quite interesting how some think Nasr is not doing enough. He won formula BMW with a 104 points lead, formula 3 with 81 points lead, both against good competition and may become the second youngest GP2 champion. Well, he seems to have done more than enough to deserve a chance in F1.

#39 spaceace1977

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 07:31

Wins do not mean talent.. Come on, he could easily win a race if he used Palmer's tactics in Hungaroring. But he chose to look at the championship. And, it's been a really long time that a first comer has won the title in his first season (Hulkenberg), but not because of the lack of talent, but because GP2 has become a place where experience counts a lot..


He is too conservative? He should demand the winning tactics from his team. Especially when you think of the championship and with Colleti in the backfield (Hungary). If they adapted the Palmer tactics he had his first win instead of third place. And the 10 points difference he got have gained in Hungary is a lot in the end. Heck, he would have been leading the championship right now.

Fortec boss told about Frijns he beat himself up if he wasn't on pole position or wasn't winning..

Edited by spaceace1977, 06 August 2013 - 07:32.


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#40 chrisblades85

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 07:38

Certainly a contender for worst overalls ever seen. Good driver though and have rated him for some years now.

#41 Jackman

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:28

His approach to GP2 has certainly marked him out to be the new di Grassi.

#42 SPBHM

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 08:50

Guess that tells us two things:
1. No Massa next season
2. It was Massa's nationality that kept him in the Ferrari seat this long



you can see it that way, but regardless, Massa is not getting any younger anyway, there are no other new Brazilian drivers close to F1 level, commercially for F1 is better to have some diversity, and Brazil have some importance in F1, it's natural for Bernie to say that,

as for Nasr, I was expecting more (perhaps it's a little unjustified, but caused by the hype after his dominant FBMW performances), but to be fair he is not doing badly, some drivers in GP2 are the opposite, get some wins, but are to inconsistent, and don't go anywhere, let's wait and see.

I can point to a few drivers currently in F1 which I think are less deserving than Nasr (regardless of his future GP2 results!)... so... good luck.

#43 BackmarkerUK

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:11

Certainly a contender for worst overalls ever seen.


I quite like them, it's like a Benetton 1991-1993 throwback.

#44 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:30

Can he win the GP2 title without winning a race? He's right in there in the championship now and that's without a race win!

#45 noikeee

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:36

His approach to GP2 has certainly marked him out to be the new di Grassi.


Yeah he reminds me of di Grassi a lot - right there, close to the top all the time every race, not a lot of mistakes, but ultimately never ever does anything that makes you think "wow this kid is quick".

The difference to di Grassi is that he has time on his side and could still become that "wow" driver. I'm not betting on that, though.

#46 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:50

The other difference is di Grassi's entire career was kind of quiet, whereas Nasr was a stand-out in European Formula BMW and was good enough to win an F3 championship. So at this stage his GP2 form is more of a headscratcher than a cause to write him off.

#47 luispaulob

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 13:09

The other difference is di Grassi's entire career was kind of quiet, whereas Nasr was a stand-out in European Formula BMW and was good enough to win an F3 championship. So at this stage his GP2 form is more of a headscratcher than a cause to write him off.



He didn't only win but dominated F-BMW and F3.. And about what some of you are saying about not doing anything special during the races, well, have you watched Silverstone this year? When he started p20 (I think) and arrived p7, and all of that in the Sprint Race (no strategy at all). In this race, he started behind Colleti and finished in the points.. There are many others examples of that, especially last year, in his rookie season, when he got a podium on his first ever race in GP2.

He's fighting for the championship on his second season (with a mid-level team), may become the second youngest champion in the history of GP2 and still not good enough?

Last year, I only saw people praising Kimi Raikkonen for being in the title fight until the end with a Lotus, and still, he only won a race at the very end of the championship.

But I'm 100% sure that a couple of race wins from him and those opinions will change very fast

#48 Jackman

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 13:25

I watched him win F-BMW, and he was not bad - not Vettel or Gutierrez levels, but he definitely marked himself out as the next potential hot shoe - and he definitely looked to be in the Piquet mold of give it a go, learn the series and then attack for the title, but he is slipping back into di Grassi mode now. Not that there's anything wrong with that, and there are plenty of people who could learn from his stay out of trouble, don't go for the questionable move tactics, particularly with respect to his abilities on tyre management, which is crucial these days.

It's not tremendous to watch, of course, and even Coletti learnt how to manage his tyres better eventually, so he has been schooling his rivals in one respect.

#49 noikeee

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 13:30

The other difference is di Grassi's entire career was kind of quiet, whereas Nasr was a stand-out in European Formula BMW and was good enough to win an F3 championship. So at this stage his GP2 form is more of a headscratcher than a cause to write him off.


Di Grassi wasn't entirely shit through the lower levels of the ladder neither, he did win Macau. Beating Kubica iirc. You need to be a bloody good driver to do that. The problem is that to come good in F1 you need even more than just be "a bloody good driver".

Edited by noikeee, 06 August 2013 - 13:31.


#50 Jackman

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 14:25

That's not strictly true: what you need is to come in with a good team so you appear to be worthwhile. No one could impress at Virgin.