96 replies to this topic

[SEdward]

Lotus (sort of) - if you count the Le Mans Index of Performance as a win.

Sort of, but not really...

I meant outright wins.

Edward

[Tim Murray]

No team other than McLaren matches Edward's exact criteria. Mercedes and Peugeot come closest - they dominated GP racing in their respective eras and also won at Le Mans and Indianapolis. Mercedes, of course, won at Indy before the merger with Benz. Teams with (a good claim to) two out of three include Delage, Bugatti, Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Lotus and Ferrari.

Edited by Tim Murray, 04 February 2013 - 17:57.

[Phil Rainford]

This was in the pit area at a McLaren event at Silverstone last year ....





PAR

[SEdward]

That's the one!
That poster is an expression of respect, admiration and tenderness.

Edward

[Muz Bee]

Love it, Bruce would too I'm sure!

[Michael Ferner]

I seem to remember that at the time of the merger it was reported on Autosprint that there was plan to rename the company as MP4 International. Was that ever a possibility?

Well, the company WAS renamed McLaren International. It was Bruce McLaren Motor Racing before...

[Michael Ferner]

Oops, ... Should've checked WHO I was trying to 'help'...

[flatlander48]

Indeed ............they are trying to sell a road car against Ferrari, Porsche etc and therefore have to use all the marketing tools at their disposal

I'm sorry. That's a pretty cynical way of looking at things.

Anyway, my son sent the link to me early this week. I am 64 and he is 31 and we both enjoyed the video. I suspect our thought processes may be a bit different, but that's immaterial. For me, it was a reminder of what Bruce McLaren stood for and his thought processes. He created his company in his own image; that of a racer. For all of the things that it does, the company remains at its core a company of racers. That is the legacy of Bruce McLaren followed on by Teddy Mayer and Ron Dennis.

For those who didn't like the video, there will be 2 more released during the course of the year, so you get 2 more chances to object.

For those who missed it, here is the video for the MP4/28. The M8D that McLaren crashed is on display, fully restored. If only it were that easy to bring people back...

MP4/28 Introduction

[flatlander48]

I believe this was published back in the day...

This was in the pit area at a McLaren event at Silverstone last year ....





PAR

[PCC]

The M8D that McLaren crashed is on display, fully restored.
MP4/28 Introduction

I greatly hope that I'm correct in thinking that you've misinterpreted that. This is an M8D, which is the model in which Bruce died, but I don't know of any claim that this is the very chassis he crashed. Surely McLaren would have more class than that...

[kayemod]

I greatly hope that I'm correct in thinking that you've misinterpreted that. This is an M8D, which is the model in which Bruce died, but I don't know of any claim that this is the very chassis he crashed. Surely McLaren would have more class than that...

I doubt if that would have been possible, Specialised Mouldings were involved, as some thought initially that a bodywork problem had caused Bruce's crash, though this was later disproved. A few solicitors' letters passed between SM in Huntingdon and Colnbrook, I'm sure that McLaren said then that the car's remains had been cut up and destroyed, and having seen at first hand how their loss had affected them, I'm sure that was true, haven't we covered all this before on TNF? They weren't too sentimental about old cars the way McLaren are today, and I don't recall seeing any that had been kept after their racing days were past. In any case, despite the fact that they were relatively wealthy by the standards of the day, the team had a very "waste not want not" attitude, and old cars were re-cycled wherever possible, I think that at least two of the three M8As built were rebuilt into M8Bs for example, so the only surviving M8A is the one being very slowly restored by the Bruce McLaren Trust.

On that photo, the one here is a heavily cropped version, it was credited to Dale von Trebra, and it was used in a Gulf advertising campaign back then. The story was that Bruce found "Rick McTurtle" crossing the track at St Jovite in June 1969 and adopted it for the team.

[Nigel Beresford]

McLaren has /1

The Goodwood car was /2

[mfd]

I greatly hope that I'm correct in thinking that you've misinterpreted that. This is an M8D, which is the model in which Bruce died, but I don't know of any claim that this is the very chassis he crashed. Surely McLaren would have more class than that...

The Bruce McLaren website lists M8D-2 as the Goodwood car - Destroyed. The car at the McLaren launch is M8D-1, a car used by exclusively by Denny Hulme until sold to Motschenbacher in 1971
Kayemod - PM

[mfd]

I'm not convinced this is genuine but if it is

https://www.facebook...3...e=1

[VWV]

I'm not convinced this is genuine but if it is

https://www.facebook...3...e=1

That picture is so wrong. If true Mclaren should be ashamed of themselves.

[Gary C]

well that's obviously Photoshopped, isn't it.

[jj2728]

I'm not convinced this is genuine but if it is

https://www.facebook...3...e=1

Another one for the 'wtf' files....photoshopped and hideous.

[kayemod]

That picture is so wrong. If true Mclaren should be ashamed of themselves.

I'd have preferred to see an orange MP4-593, or whatever number they're up to now.

[PCC]

I'm sure that McLaren said then that the car's remains had been cut up and destroyed, and having seen at first hand how their loss had affected them, I'm sure that was true.

Thank you Rob (and Nigel, and mfd ) for that confirmation.

The attached photo was included in a press release as an 8x10 glossy just before the 1970 Mosport Can-Am (alas, I've long since lost the glossy; this is scanned from a program). It is number five and has Denny's name, but it is evidently Bruce driving. It may be one of the last photos of him in a racing car.

[Nigel Beresford]

Obviously that's /1, the car intended for Denny, due to the fact that the numbers were painted on rather than decals. It also makes sense that the boss would get /2, with any minor tidying up done in light of the experience building /1.

I do remember, prior to 2nd June 1970, this picture being posted on the notice board in Colnbrook, for the benefit of those who were factory based.

[PCC]

Obviously that's /1, the car intended for Denny, due to the fact that the numbers were painted on rather than decals. It also makes sense that the boss would get /2, with any minor tidying up done in light of the experience building /1.

I do remember, prior to 2nd June 1970, this picture being posted on the notice board in Colnbrook, for the benefit of those who were factory based.

Thank you for that. According to the Bruce McLaren website, Bruce crashed in Denny's car. So might Bruce's have been /1, and Denny's /2?

[Nigel Beresford]

Eoin Young's book, "McLaren!", reckons the initial test car was /1, as in the pic. Bruce then tested and crashed his own car, /2, with Denny's bodywork because his car's body was not yet completed. Surely the bodywork is the source of the impression that it was Denny's car.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 08 February 2013 - 20:17.

[mfd]

I'm not sure where you're looking but this is copied from the Bruce McLaren Trust website

Driver - McLaren
M8D-2 Can-Am Car
Crashed at Goodwood destroyed

Driver - Hulme
M8D-1 Can-Am car
1970 Motschenbacher
19?? Stan Sarkowitz
19?? McLaren International
2007 McLaren Racing – fully restored, on display at MTC

[PCC]

I don't know if it's been discussed already, but fingers crossed, this could be quite good:

 

[jonpollak]

http://www.racer.com...railer-released

 

Jp

[E1pix]

Wow, that is great!

What a surprise. September is the 50th Anniversary of the first time I knew who he was, after Road America's first Can-Am!

[PCC]

I don't know if it's been discussed already, but fingers crossed, this could be quite good:

 

Incidentally, I note that in the recreation shots of Bruce in the M8D, the car has a silver rear wing. That looked off to me, because when I saw it race at Mosport (and later) the car in fact had a navy blue wing. So I checked the early test photos of Bruce driving the first incarnation of the car, and sure enough the wing was indeed silver, like its M8B predecessor.

 

Now that's the sort of attention to detail that should even impress TNFers!

 

By the way, does anyone know why the navy blue was was adopted? If there's anywhere I can find out it's here...

[D28]

Incidentally, I note that in the recreation shots of Bruce in the M8D, the car has a silver rear wing. That looked off to me, because when I saw it race at Mosport (and later) the car in fact had a navy blue wing. So I checked the early test photos of Bruce driving the first incarnation of the car, and sure enough the wing was indeed silver, like its M8B predecessor.

 

Now that's the sort of attention to detail that should even impress TNFers!

 

By the way, does anyone know why the navy blue was was adopted? If there's anywhere I can find out it's here...

I remember the blue wing from Mosport, but never saw a silver paint scheme. I just assumed it was to match somewhat the Gulf colours even though the bright orange paint theme predated Gulf sponsorship. Could it be that simple?

[PCC]

I remember the blue wing from Mosport, but never saw a silver paint scheme. I just assumed it was to match somewhat the Gulf colours even though the bright orange paint theme predated Gulf sponsorship. Could it be that simple?

It could well be. And I don't think anyone outside the team ever saw the silver scheme – but it looks pretty sharp in the film!

 

I also note that the movie M8D has no struts beneath the wing, which is again consistent with the car as Bruce tested it but not as it raced. These people did their homework!

[D28]

It could well be. And I don't think anyone outside the team ever saw the silver scheme – but it looks pretty sharp in the film!

 

I also note that the movie M8D has no struts beneath the wing, which is again consistent with the car as Bruce tested it but not as it raced. These people did their homework!

Just looked up the appropriate comment from Eoin Young in McLaren Memories. Teddy Mayer reasoned that the startling orange hue would alert others about to be lapped and that was why they chose the colour.

[PCC]

Just looked up the appropriate comment from Eoin Young in McLaren Memories. Teddy Mayer reasoned that the startling orange hue would alert others about to be lapped and that was why they chose the colour.

I've heard a few explanations of why the papaya was adopted, including some here on TNF from Nigel Beresford and Doug Nye. But nothing about the blue wing – yet!

[Rupertlt1]

A 1961 Cooper T55 Coventry-Climax was on display at the 2017 Canadian International Autoshow.

The car was painted green and white, #2, with the name Bruce McLaren on the cockpit side.

Can anybody identify this car and give some history?

 

RGDS RLT

[D28]

A 1961 Cooper T55 Coventry-Climax was on display at the 2017 Canadian International Autoshow.

The car was painted green and white, #2, with the name Bruce McLaren on the cockpit side.

Can anybody identify this car and give some history?

 

RGDS RLT

If the car was the actual 1961 works entry, information is listed at this link, Other details are avilable with a simple web search.

http://www.conceptca...=163&catID=1213

[Rupertlt1]

So thought to be F1-11-61. Does anybody know any subsequent history?

 

RGDS RLT

[D28]

So thought to be F1-11-61. Does anybody know any subsequent history?

 

RGDS RLT

Click on the specifications links gives a brief history of ownership. Toronto Auto Show information says it is the works car.

[PCC]

We've seen the trailer, now we have the poster:

 

 

Of course, the signature below the Famous Quotation is not Bruce's, but I suppose they chose it because it's more legible than the real thing...

 

Edit: Come to think of it, I guess the signature sort of almost matches the script used on the cars, so maybe that's the point.

Edited by PCC, 15 March 2017 - 20:37.

[JacnGille]

[Dick Dastardly]

The 1st McLaren cars I saw in the flesh, so to speak, weren't F1 or CanAm cars....they were the McLaren M10Bs of Sir Nicholas Williamson & David Good in the 1970 British Hill Climb Championship, David winning at Barbon that year. Do either or both of these cars still exist? I'd like to see them again if at all possible...

[Tim Murray]

You'll have to take a trip to New Zealand, I think. Acording to the info on the ORC site both cars were last recorded with NZ owners. Sir Nick had M10A 300-08 (rebuilt to M10B spec for 1970) and David Good was in M10B 400-07. For more details check out the M10A and M10B history pages on ORC:

http://www.oldracing.../f5000/cars.php

[opplock]

I've spotted a mistake in ORC's M10A page. The narrative for M10A 300-10 states that Frank Matich won the 1970 Tasman rounds at Pukekohe and Levin. Not at Levin where I was delighted to watch the 3rd consecutive win for the Ferrari 246T (Matich was 1st of the F5000s to finish in third) but 2 weeks later at Wigram.  

[PCC]

A bit of a tangent, but it gives me an excuse to watch the trailer again:

 

Who is crashing on the pit straight at Mosport at about 1:32?

Edited by PCC, 16 March 2017 - 14:40.

[D28]

A bit of a tangent, but it gives me an excuse to watch the trailer again:

 

Who is crashing on the pit straight at Mosport at about 1:32?

Very hard to say, but it is a white #2 car. Brett Lunger crashed his #2 McLaren Elva at the 67 Can-Am the Autodynamics car.

That would be my guess, but that's all it is.

[PCC]

Very hard to say, but it is a white #2 car. Brett Lunger crashed his #2 McLaren Elva at the 67 Can-Am the Autodynamics car.

That would be my guess, but that's all it is.

Well, I've cleared up the mystery...

 

I e-mailed the photographer Lionel Birnbom. Some of you will know Lionel's book, The Golden Years of Motor Sport in Eastern Canada and the USA, which was discussed here and is available here. It's a wonderful book of photographs of racing from the late 1950s to the '80s, and judging from its geographical scope I figured there was a pretty good chance that Lionel was at Mosport when that incident occurred...

 

So, Lionel started narrowing down the year based on the installation date of the guardrail, the changing signage from year to year, etc. And once he nailed down the year, he checked his photo files, and sure enough, he was there, and even had a photo of this very accident! His verdict, after this exemplary detective work:

 

1967, car #2, McLaren M1B (sponsored by Hudson Wire), driven by Brett Lunger.

 

Thank you Lionel! And well done D28, next time I need an 'educated guess', I'll ask you first!

[D28]

No problem. I was there, but at the other end of the circuit and there is little chance I would remember this incident. A lucky guess after examining photos of the time. Maybe in the real video more will be shown.

[raceannouncer2003]

It is coming up to 50 years since Bruce McLaren won Sebring with Mario Andretti.  This from the IMSA website:

 

"...FIFTY YEARS LATER: Heading into this week’s Mobil 1 Twelve Hours of Sebring, legendary Mario Andretti spoke to Ford Chip Ganassi Racing about Andretti’s win at Sebring in 1967 in the original Ford GT40, paired with the late Bruce McLaren.

Said Mario: “We tested only briefly, and it was the first race for the Mk IV. The car was competitive right from the start because we had very good mechanical knowledge and they had used much of the chassis of the Mk II, with some mods, but with a new aerodynamic shape it proved to be quite good. With Bruce McLaren, we just pulled it off. It was a hard-fought race.  The Chaparral was the favorite, but we were competitive.

“That yellow No. 1 Mk IV is now on display at Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama. Sebring was actually very important from the standpoint of Ford’s effort for the Le Mans 24. At Daytona earlier that year, we had some issues and Ford felt they needed to come up with a different model car, a little slicker and quicker in a straight line, especially for Le Mans, and Phil Remington was given the task of designing that car quickly.  He did it and that car won Sebring and Le Mans.”

 

Links here:

 

http://www.racingspo...7-04-01-001.jpg

 

https://revslib.stan...earch_match=all

 

I believe the first McLaren car I saw race was the Mk 1 at Riverside in 1964.  Bruce was on the pole but didn't finish.

 

Vince H.

[Manfred Cubenoggin]

Luck of the draw, D28...

 

I was spectating on the pit straight when Brett Lunger drilled that guardrail and witnessed the impact.  Down-track about 100m or so from point of impact and right at the fence line.  The car was considerably used up but Brett was OK and the rail was severely damaged.  It flexed enormously but held and did its job.  I distinctly recall a terrible crunching sound on impact.  Later, saw Denny limp it in for the win with smoke billowing off the M6A.  Both of them lucky boys.

 

I can't say for sure when the guardrail was installed.  There were years where it didn't figure and the 1962 Canadian GP(for sportscars)was the famous(?)case of Masten Gregory, starting at the back, side-stepping most of the field as the race commenced and went down pit lane passing all but the first couple of rows.  He earned a 1m penalty for that but eventually won just the same.  There was video of this start out there for time.

 

For sure, the pit guardrail was in place in 1966.  I say that as a buddy of mine and I were examining a car in pit stall at a club event with our backs to the track when a quick formula car lost it coming off T10 in a practice session and spun to the inside.  If the rail wasn't there, buddy and I would have been comprehensively collected.

 

 

[PCC]

Luck of the draw, D28...

 

I was spectating on the pit straight when Brett Lunger drilled that guardrail and witnessed the impact.  Down-track about 100m or so from point of impact and right at the fence line.  The car was considerably used up but Brett was OK and the rail was severely damaged.  It flexed enormously but held and did its job.  I distinctly recall a terrible crunching sound on impact.  Later, saw Denny limp it in for the win with smoke billowing off the M6A.  Both of them lucky boys.

 

I can't say for sure when the guardrail was installed.  There were years where it didn't figure and the 1962 Canadian GP(for sportscars)was the famous(?)case of Masten Gregory, starting at the back, side-stepping most of the field as the race commenced and went down pit lane passing all but the first couple of rows.  He earned a 1m penalty for that but eventually won just the same.  There was video of this start out there for time.

 

For sure, the pit guardrail was in place in 1966.  I say that as a buddy of mine and I were examining a car in pit stall at a club event with our backs to the track when a quick formula car lost it coming off T10 in a practice session and spun to the inside.  If the rail wasn't there, buddy and I would have been comprehensively collected.

Thank you for this eyewitness account! According to Lionel - who is using his meticulously dated photo archive as a guide - that guardrail was installed before the Players 200 in 1965. That was how he first determined that the accident was '65 or later; the '67 date was determined by the presence of the Renault sign, which was not present before then.

 

Riffing on that, my recollection is that the guardrail on the outside of the pit straight first appeared at the Canadian GP in '69, but had not been there for that year's Can-Am - sound right? And the pit rail was replaced by the concrete wall, sponsored by GAF, in... can't remember!

 

Edit: On page 49 of Peter Lyons' Can-Am book, there's a photo by Lionel of Denny limping around corner 10, just as you describe. As far as I can tell, his shot of the Lunger shunt is taken from exactly the same place - he was at the exit of 10, whereas you were (I think) closer to the entrance of 1.

Edited by PCC, 17 March 2017 - 12:10.