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Do we know our history?


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#1 Bernard

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 13:55

There is an interesting thread on the car side about modern drivers knowing the history of the sport,prompted by a question at Spa to Schumacher,Button et al had they ever gone for a drive round the old full Spa circuit which was met by blank stares apparently as they had no idea what the questioner was talking about. I wondered if our side of the sport was the same

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#2 picblanc

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 15:17

There is an interesting thread on the car side about modern drivers knowing the history of the sport,prompted by a question at Spa to Schumacher,Button et al had they ever gone for a drive round the old full Spa circuit which was met by blank stares apparently as they had no idea what the questioner was talking about. I wondered if our side of the sport was the same



I think it is, some like John McGuiness know everthing the history going way back etc but he was a racing enthusiast as a young lad, but most were/are so busy preping their bikes etc for meetings they had no time for who did what where and when etc.

Just my opinion. :D





#3 fil2.8

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 15:43

I think it is, some like John McGuiness know everthing the history going way back etc but he was a racing enthusiast as a young lad, but most were/are so busy preping their bikes etc for meetings they had no time for who did what where and when etc.

Just my opinion. :D



that's about right , when I was assisting Tony Head in 82/3 , one of his Coventry mates , who also raced , Chris , can't remember his other name :blush: , had never heard of Jarno Saarinen ...................................... :rolleyes:

Chris Sykes , that was the fella :up:

Edited by fil2.8, 07 January 2013 - 16:08.


#4 greg1953

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 16:44

There is an interesting thread on the car side about modern drivers knowing the history of the sport,prompted by a question at Spa to Schumacher,Button et al had they ever gone for a drive round the old full Spa circuit which was met by blank stares apparently as they had no idea what the questioner was talking about. I wondered if our side of the sport was the same

Surprised about Schumacher as Spa is very near to where he grew up, IIRC
Greg

#5 Paul Collins

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 17:30

Surprised about Schumacher as Spa is very near to where he grew up, IIRC
Greg


This thread just reminded me of an amusing incident!! I was testing a bike at Jurby in the late 90's and when I came in my girlfriend of the time said "that old man over there in green overalls with a fag in his mouth came over wanting to borrow something or other, I said I didnt know where anything was but would send you over when you came in"

The "old man in green overalls with a fag in his mouth" was actually Joey who had been after some lockwire pliers or something, she hadnt a clue bless her!!



#6 OultonPark65

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 18:34

There is an interesting thread on the car side about modern drivers knowing the history of the sport,prompted by a question at Spa to Schumacher,Button et al had they ever gone for a drive round the old full Spa circuit which was met by blank stares apparently as they had no idea what the questioner was talking about. I wondered if our side of the sport was the same

I went to Spa in 1975, Barry Sheene set a new lap record at over 135mph, I was at the start finish and saw Sheene push start the Suzuki up the hill after which he gave a 2 fingered salute to the gentlemen of the FIM (they wanted him to start from the back with a pusher). In 1977 the last year the old circuit was used Sheene set a new race record at 135.07mph and took the lap record at 137.15mph he covered the 8.774miles in 3mins 50.3sec, this stands today and is the fastest grand prix race ever. It is also the fastest ever pure road race, the Ulster being the fastest still in use.

Edited by OultonPark65, 07 January 2013 - 18:55.


#7 Rennmax

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 19:27

..... It is also the fastest ever pure road race, the Ulster being the fastest still in use.


The fastest ever lap (143,88 mph) was achieved by Reinhold Roth on a Honda NS 500 on the Avus circuit in '84. Of course the Avus was merely 2 straights and 2 U-turns and not of the complex calibre of the old Spa circuit, nevertheless it was a race on public roads


#8 OultonPark65

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 19:51

The fastest ever lap (143,88 mph) was achieved by Reinhold Roth on a Honda NS 500 on the Avus circuit in '84. Of course the Avus was merely 2 straights and 2 U-turns and not of the complex calibre of the old Spa circuit, nevertheless it was a race on public roads

Thanks for the correction, being a follower of Road Racing since '65 I am always interested to know more about this sport and it's history. Talking to a friend a few years back he said that he had heard of a lap at around 150mph, possibly in Japan? on a test track, but couldn't confirm it. Have to admit not having heard of Avus. My knowledge of Championships and circuits in other countries is not to good. Research on the internet Spa, remains the fastest World Championship Grand Prix race.

Edited by OultonPark65, 07 January 2013 - 20:03.


#9 OultonPark65

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 20:50

The fastest ever lap (143,88 mph) was achieved by Reinhold Roth on a Honda NS 500 on the Avus circuit in '84. Of course the Avus was merely 2 straights and 2 U-turns and not of the complex calibre of the old Spa circuit, nevertheless it was a race on public roads

Looked up Avus on the net got this link, http://basementgeogr...est-racing.html that must be the most insane circuit ever devised especially the banked "Wall of Death" section.

#10 Bernard

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 23:09

Looked up Avus on the net got this link, http://basementgeogr...est-racing.html that must be the most insane circuit ever devised especially the banked "Wall of Death" section.

Not brilliant footage but you get the idea



#11 philippe7

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:59

I just have to tell you a little story which, I think, is in line with this topic....hope I haven't told it before. A couple of years ago, while I was making my first visit to the South Island of New Zealand, I was fortunate to meet up with a forum member residing in the charming city of Dunedin, who took me to pay a visit to Dennis Ireland, a former racer from the late 70's who gained a little reputation in Europe by "winning" the boycotted 1979 500cc Belgian Grand Prix at Spa, and - perhaps more significantly - earning a string of very good results at the TT, including a win in a Classic and a podium finish in the Senior, the latter alongside none other than Mike Hailwood ..... Anyway, knowing that this meeting was a possibility, and in order not to arrive empty-handed, I had asked photographer ( and occasional forum contributor ) Manfred Mothes if he would send me a good resolution scan of the picture below, which I had spotted on his website, and which for obvious reasons ( well, obvious to you and me, but....) I thought Dennis would like to have. So, Manfred sent me the file and I had a nice enlarged print made in order to give it to Dennis. For the record, this picture was taken (from the grandstands !) in the last curve before the start-finish line of the Hockenheim Stadium, during the warm-up of the 1979 German Grand Prix.

Posted Image

So there I am having a very enjoyable chat with Dennis in his office in his Kawasaki dealership, he seems genuinely pleased with the picture, when one of his dashing young employees enters the office carrying the front wheel of a ZXR10 or something to ask Dennis wether the slick tyre which was fitted on it was still good enough for the next week-end's race ( or something along those lines.....) . After they finish their technical discussion, Dennis shows the pic to this (obviously fan of modern racing) young man, telling him "hey, look at this picture I was just given". The young lad takes a quick glance, says "Oh this is you in green in front, nice pic boss", and then turns around and prepares to exit the room. I thought hey, something is wrong there, so I address the guy befores he goes out, and tell him : "Do you know who those two riders are on this picture with Dennis? " He gives me a blank stare and answers "No....."."Well, the guy in yellow was the reigning World Champion, and the other one with the number 7 was World Champion the two previous years" ....... the guy's jaw dropped, he gave a weird stare to his boss who was by then displaying a very slight smile, shook his head in disbelief and left the room....

#12 Rennmax

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:45

The lack of knowledge amazes me especially when you listen to TV commentators....

Sorry for being OT, this one could be of interest in regard to lap records

http://en.wikipedia....i/Grenzlandring

216 km/h in 1949!

Edited by Rennmax, 08 January 2013 - 08:47.


#13 OultonPark65

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:42

The lack of knowledge amazes me especially when you listen to TV commentators....

Sorry for being OT, this one could be of interest in regard to lap records

http://en.wikipedia....i/Grenzlandring

216 km/h in 1949!

I have been trying for a long time reading books using google to validate records etc, seems that it is a waste of time, the best thing is to ask you guys on the Nostalgia forum. If you ever write a book, please put me at the top of the list for a copy.

#14 Classicpics

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:08

The lack of knowledge amazes me especially when you listen to TV commentators....

Sorry for being OT, this one could be of interest in regard to lap records

http://en.wikipedia....i/Grenzlandring

216 km/h in 1949!


Wow.

I guess that all the dangers were well known in those days and it certainly was a very dangerous sport but when the flag dropped and the adrenalin is flowing it's hell for leather and winning is the main aim.

I wonder if the fact that it's relatively "safe" now that it has a bearing on the thrill racing gives?

Time for my Cocoa, I'm rambling again!





#15 Geoff E

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 21:06

Here's the Grenzlandring https://maps.google....r...077162&z=14

#16 Bernard

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 21:31

Here's the Grenzlandring https://maps.google....r...077162&z=14

Looks a fearsome place



Warning the last part of the clip is distressing after the crash that closed the circuit