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Marko hits out at Vettel Critics [split]


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#1 aditya-now

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:18

While Dr. Marko is at it, he gave another full-mouthed serving in the new Red Bulletin:

Marko extolling Vettel to the skies and slamming Stewart, Alonso and Webber

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#2 Spillage

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:29

While Dr. Marko is at it, he gave another full-mouthed serving in the new Red Bulletin:

Marko extolling Vettel to the skies and slamming Stewart, Alonso and Webber

Marko is an idiot. I agree 100% with his evaluation of Webber, but really, what does the team have to gain from comments like this? He's a bit like LdM during the Schumacher years - he'd love for everyone to think that he's at the centre of the team's success, but in reality he's just getting in the way.

#3 selespeed

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:30

can't find anything wrong with what he said...

#4 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:36

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.

#5 mnmracer

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:38

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.

:up: :up: :up:
Bad managing, but what he says is what we've all been saying the entire time.

#6 BCM

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:44

I agree with you Buttoneer. Extremely poor form to discuss Webber in such a fashion whilst he's still driving for them.

I think the original link text is overstating how he discusses Webber though. Seems pretty fair to me. Not really slamming him.

#7 ayali

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:48

While Dr. Marko is at it, he gave another full-mouthed serving in the new Red Bulletin:

Marko extolling Vettel to the skies and slamming Stewart, Alonso and Webber

Anyone got a link to the original Red Bulletin article?

#8 Slackbladder

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:48

He's being rather inconsistent, moaning about Alonso, but saying 'we just ignore him'...well not to the extent that you'll talk about it in an interview. (and isn't what he's doing just as political?



#9 aditya-now

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:50

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.


That's the thing, Dr.Marko is spot-on with almost everything he says, and yet it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

As you point out, Buttoneer, it's very bad team politics, as if he would want to split RBR into two separate factions. Christian Horner will again have everything to do to unite that and bring back a feeling of harmony and team-spirit.

Without Mark's win in Silverstone 2012 Seb would not be three-times WDC now. Same in 2010, when Mark took away points from Alonso. You always win as a team and it could well become paramount yet again in 2013 to have a good, solid driving Mark Webber for Seb to win the WDC.

So Dr.Marko's agenda is very shady, to say the least. Why always hit out at someone who is in your team?


#10 goingthedistance

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:52

I agree about Webber's inconsistency, but it's a bit unfair if you apply it to 2012 as he didn't just have a one-off mechanical failure that caused a spiral mid-year - he had a string of gearbox penalties, dreadful strategy calls and mechanical failures, all the team's fault. Once those passed he showed he had the pace over one lap to beat Vettel (Korea, Brazil, Abu Dhabi) but managed the tyres less competently.

Edited by goingthedistance, 08 January 2013 - 11:53.


#11 aditya-now

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:54

Anyone got a link to the original Red Bulletin article?


The full article with those touchy utterings is only available in print edition, Red Bulletin January 2013.

Here the precious little things that are available online - this does not contain the real meat.

#12 kosmos

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:56

Boggles my mind why Webber can keep driving for this guys team, I guess money can make you eat trash like candy.

#13 goldenboy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:00

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.

Cant argue with that. Would like to add though that his driver has won 3 in a row, which is more than enough punishment for webber and should be enough to keep marko happy without having to always slam webber, backhanded or directly.

If he believes webbers form is reliant on confidence/pressue like he says, strange that he likes to add as much as he can whenever possible. I don't think there is a driver that is treated as bad publicly by a team "manager" or for a worse reason.

Edited by goldenboy, 08 January 2013 - 12:01.


#14 Slackbladder

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:03

Boggles my mind why Webber can keep driving for this guys team, I guess money can make you eat trash like candy.


Because he knows it's his only real chance of continuing to be a race winner at least. But when he retires it'll be interesting to see if he opens up about anything behind the scenes (probably not actually).

#15 sheepgobba

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:03

Most times Marko makes himself look and sound like a total tool...

But this time some of the things he said is hard to disagree upon.

#16 Goron3

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:06

I don't get why Marko let's things get to him so badly. He's always been a bit prone to what the media say and towards mind games, which is strange given that he's had so much recent success.

Stick to what you're good at Marko, winning (and slamming webber lol).

#17 ayali

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:06

can't find anything wrong with what he said...

Me neither, whether it's functional is another matter.
Maybe Mark can take this as a bit of extra motivation to prove Dr Marko wrong this year

Thanks for the link aditya-now :up:
Think I found Dr Marko's motto in life in that part of the interview:

"Wer harmoniesüchtig ist, kann in der Formel 1 nicht erfolgreich sein"

;)

#18 aditya-now

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:10

Think I found Dr Marko's motto in life in that part of the interview:

"Wer harmoniesüchtig ist, kann in der Formel 1 nicht erfolgreich sein"
;)


Translation: "who is addicted to harmony, cannot be successful in F1"


#19 KiloWatt

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:12

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.


Yep, pretty much agree.

Although I struggle to even tolerate the Helmut "the Mouth" Marko, I really don't see anything wrong with what he said. The Webber thing may have been slightly provocative for some, but who's the guy who announced to the world "How's that for a number two?".

Anyway, I think what he said was quite fair.

Edited by KiloWatt, 08 January 2013 - 12:12.


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#20 AndreasF1

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:14

I agree with everything Marko said. I don't feel bad for Webber either. He is getting paid millions and is used to beeing in the limelight. The good comes with the bad. It's not the first time a team turned up the heat on underperforming drivers in the press. In this case though the intent of Marko's comments was to highlight Vettel's capabilities rather than criticising Webber. I am sure that even Webber would agree.


#21 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:15

Translation: "who is addicted to harmony, cannot be successful in F1"

Also a guiding principle of the Sith Lords.

#22 aditya-now

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:15

Yep, pretty much agree.

Although I struggle to even tolerate the Helmut "the Mouth" Marko, I really don't see anything wrong with what he said. The Webber thing may have been slightly provocative for some, but who's the guy who announced to the world "How's that for a number two?".


How's that for a number two?

Silverstone 2012 - classification

# drivers car qualifying classification L fastest
2 Mark Webber Red Bull RB8 2 1'51.793 1 1:25'11.288 52 1'34.934 (49)
5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari F2012 1 1'51.746 2 1:25'14.348 52 1'35.385 (49)
1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull RB8 4 1'52.199 3 1:25'16.124 52 1'34.897 (52)


Webber gaining Seb exactly the five points advantage that he needed to win the title over Alonso.

#23 Coops3

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:18

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.


Couldn't agree more.

#24 KiloWatt

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:19

How's that for a number two?

Silverstone 2012 - classification

# drivers car qualifying classification L fastest
2 Mark Webber Red Bull RB8 2 1'51.793 1 1:25'11.288 52 1'34.934 (49)
5 Fernando Alonso Ferrari F2012 1 1'51.746 2 1:25'14.348 52 1'35.385 (49)
1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull RB8 4 1'52.199 3 1:25'16.124 52 1'34.897 (52)


Webber gaining Seb exactly the five points advantage that he needed to win the title over Alonso.


Not sure if you misunderstood me there...I was implying that if Webber can have a jibe at the team with the whole F1 watching world as an audience, then the he should be able to take it as well.

#25 BernieEc

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:19

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.

Alas...For once I agree with you. Could this be sign O the times??

Edited by BernieEc, 08 January 2013 - 12:20.


#26 H2H

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:24

One can say a lot of things about Marko but not that he isn't frank and doesn't share his opinion with the world. :p

Pretty much everything is spot and it would be sad for this forum and the journalists if he shifts towards the British/International PR style as there would be considerably less to discuss. I don't think it is wise to discuss the perceived flaws of your driver so openly, but with Mark and Marko it seems give and take. The bit about Ferrari shows that Marko and Newey did certainly register the political games of Ferrari and Alonso. Good for them that their young star doesn't bother much about the media unless he has to give some interviews.

In the end so far it worked well for RBR to have a single important person playing the bad cop. At Ferrari some seem to have to fulfill two roles.

Edited by H2H, 08 January 2013 - 12:31.


#27 Buttoneer

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:25

Alas...For once I agree with you. Could this be sign O the times??

No, because you're still really discussing me rather than what I post.

#28 tifosiMac

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:39

Marko makes Webber sound like he's a pretty average driver and I can't understand why he would make such comments whilst Webber is still driving for them. Webber is a very good solid driver and deserves a lot more respect than Marko gives him here. He may be right on certain things but its unprofessional to offer explanations of weakness about your own driver IMO.

#29 wj_gibson

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:50

I think his comments about Webber are appalling, quite frankly. At least Ferrari always gave public backing to Massa during his low period.

Anyway, Alonso scored more points than Vettel did over the final three races and it wasn't Alosno sweeping across the track into another opponent to come within a whisker of crashing out of the title decider (and only really remaining in it through remarkably good fortune). Just saying.

Edited by wj_gibson, 08 January 2013 - 12:52.


#30 aditya-now

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:54

Also a guiding principle of the Sith Lords.


Darth Bane knew that the true power of the dark side lies in cunning and perfidy....and so does Dr. Helmut Marko.

#31 mnmracer

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:55

I think his comments about Webber are appalling, quite frankly. At least Ferrari always gave public backing to Massa during his low period.

Anyway, Alonso scored more points than Vettel did over the final three races and it wasn't Alosno sweeping across the track into another opponent to come within a whisker of crashing out of the title decider (and only really remaining in it through remarkably good fortune). Just saying.

Alonso did that in Monaco and Suzuka, on opponents that actually were clearly visible in his mirrors.
Not to mention that it was remarkably good fortune for Alonso even to remain in it himself, as he need Hülkenberg to even get to the podium.

Just saying.

Edited by mnmracer, 08 January 2013 - 12:57.


#32 Kingshark

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:19

In 2012, Vettel made more mistakes than Alonso and Hamilton did combined, despite driving in a car as fast as the Mclaren and quite a bit more reliable. The RB8 had the best traits of the MP4-27 and F2012 in one.


The Red Bull was the most complete and best car to win the WDC, and his wonderchild nearly threw it away. Hence why I have no idea what Marko is smoking, probably some burned Pirelli rubber.

What he said about Webber however, was 100% spot on.

Edited by Kingshark, 08 January 2013 - 13:21.


#33 mnmracer

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:27

In 2012, Vettel made more mistakes than Alonso and Hamilton did combined, despite driving in a car as fast as the Mclaren and quite a bit more reliable. The RB8 had the best traits of the MP4-27 and F2012 in one.


The Red Bull was the most complete and best car to win the WDC, and his wonderchild nearly threw it away. Hence why I have no idea what Marko is smoking, probably some burned Pirelli rubber.

What he said about Webber however, was 100% spot on.

Still haven't gotten to actually watch back the season, have you?

#34 Rinehart

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:28

Marko can say what he likes about the opposition, they all do.

But his comments about Webber are disgraceful. They maybe entirely accurate, but that is not the point. The point is his senior role is to help RBR win 2 titles next year and attacking one of your own drivers publicly is unbelievably idiotic. I get the impression that Marko was against the idea that Weber would be retained for 2013. I expect DM to put Marko firmly back in his box over this. Its not helpful to the RedBull brand, let alone their racing.

#35 Skinnyguy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:31

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.


:up: :up:

Sums up my thoughts. All he said it´s true and all his comments are fair, but he was too open and honest talking about Webber.

#36 OneAndOnly

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:35

Alonso's approach is too political, but don't worry, I will do that also on Vettel's behalf. This guy is full of BS. I just wonder when he will stop acting like Vettel is retarded child, and he's protecting him? This guy is ruining image both of RBR and Sebastian Vettel.

#37 ali_M

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:38

In 2012, Vettel made more mistakes than Alonso and Hamilton did combined, despite driving in a car as fast as the Mclaren and quite a bit more reliable. The RB8 had the best traits of the MP4-27 and F2012 in one.


The Red Bull was the most complete and best car to win the WDC, and his wonderchild nearly threw it away. Hence why I have no idea what Marko is smoking, probably some burned Pirelli rubber.

What he said about Webber however, was 100% spot on.


I don't see where he 'slammed' Webber. The sensitivity level here, especially, in that context is very high. He left room for doubt in all his comments. He has nothing really to lose at this point with regard to Webber. It's a public declaration of doubt in Webber delivering under pressure and clearly a challenge for Webber. It's similar to Montezemolo's comments about Massa when he was under-performing. These guys are professionals, not sissies. If there's anyone who will step up to the critical views on his championship efforts, it's Webber.

As to the comments about Vettel. Fabulously refreshing.

I also love his comments about Alonso's politicking.... spot on too. :) Call a spade a spade I say. I have no issue personally with the politicking. It's part of the competition. It's not my personal style. I prefer Vettel's quiet way.

#38 ali_M

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:39

Alonso's approach is too political, but don't worry, I will do that also on Vettel's behalf. This guy is full of BS. I just wonder when he will stop acting like Vettel is retarded child, and he's protecting him? This guy is ruining image both of RBR and Sebastian Vettel.


I wouldn't hold my breath on that. :rolleyes:

#39 ayali

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 13:58

I expect DM to put Marko firmly back in his box over this. Its not helpful to the RedBull brand, let alone their racing.

I don't expect that to happen at all.

This is not some off-the-cuff interview given to a random journo but an interview in Red Bulletin, "the official magazine from the world of Red Bull".
The interview surely has been read before publication by plenty of Red Bull PR types and they saw (like me) nothing wrong with it.

I agree it's not particularly helpful (other than maybe to motivate Webber to prove Marko wrong) but it's not a big deal really.
Dr Marko says it how he sees things and doesn't really beat around the bush, I quite like that and I have an idea that Mateschitz does so too :)




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#40 2ms

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:06

I don't see anything wrong with any of what Marko said. In fact, I find its honesty very refreshing. Wish there was more of it in F1. Additionally, I essentially agree with everything he wrote. As far as the people feeling pity for Webber, I simply think that is the relationship Webber has with his team -- when he feels he is being treated as a second driver, he doesn't hide it from the press -- when the team feels he isn't their top driver, they don't hide it from the press. Surely Webber doesn't desire being babied just as he doesn't baby his team, and at least everyone's being honest.

#41 BenettonB192

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:21

Can't say i disagree with him. Only thing that is factualy incorrect is his comment about Jackie Stewart. He actualy won a championship in a Mantra too.

Edited by BenettonB192, 08 January 2013 - 14:21.


#42 LiJu914

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:26

Can't say i disagree with him. Only thing that is factualy incorrect is his comment about Jackie Stewart. He actualy won a championship in a Mantra too.


They bought the chassis from Matra at that time, but it was basically already the Tyrrell team.

#43 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:34

He's being rather inconsistent, moaning about Alonso, but saying 'we just ignore him'...well not to the extent that you'll talk about it in an interview. (and isn't what he's doing just as political?


I don't think Dr Marko is "moaning" about Nando.

Dr Marko is, basically, criticizing Nando for being way too involved in media/internet musings and in the politics of 'bigging' himself up and not focusing enough on driving.

Vettel, in comparison, shut up and drove the wheels off the Red Bull, crushing Webber after the break and pulling back the huge 40+ point lead Nando had on him.

Vettel put his head down and drove.

Nando, meanwhile, was bigging himself up, bigging Hamilton up, bigging up Newey/i.e. trashing Vettel (...and trashing his own engineers) and got involved in disagreements with Pat Fry who suggested he (Nando) wasn't getting enough out of qualifying ... as proven by Massa in the final races.

I don't see how Marko has said anything new.

We never herd a peep from Vettel on Twitter.

Hamilton and Nando could learn a thing or two from the young Triple World Champion:

1...Shut The F*** Up And Drive!!!

2...Stop tweeting like a bloody idiot!!!

Is it any wonder why Vettel's got 3 Championships whilst Nando and Lewis don't - and with more seasons under their belts (especially Nando)?

Edited by RayInTorontoCanada, 08 January 2013 - 14:49.


#44 motorhead

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:39

At least Ferrari always gave public backing to Massa during his low period.


That "public backing" just part of the Ferrari politics. Webber is allowed to win, has Massa had the same priviledge in real life?

#45 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:43

Can't say i disagree with him. Only thing that is factualy incorrect is his comment about Jackie Stewart. He actualy won a championship in a Mantra too.


Matra. But Marko is still correct. It was Ken Tyrrell's team. All 3 of Stewarts titles were for Ken Tyrrell.

#46 femi

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:44

Marko made some really good points there and I am in no way not a Vettel fan. He was spot on with regards to his comments about Jackie Stewart. Very much reminds me of the stands of those that accrues to JB talents, skills and speeds he doesn't have and never had.

#47 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:45

That "public backing" just part of the Ferrari politics. Webber is allowed to win, has Massa had the same priviledge in real life?


100% correct!

:up:

Webber was allowed to go flat out for wins right up to Round 18.

Massa, meanwhile was told to back off (Korea), grid-dropped (Austin) and had to go slower at Interlagos when he might have even won the damn race or, at least, pressured Button more following the SC.

:down:

#48 wj_gibson

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 14:50

100% correct!

:up:

Webber was allowed to go flat out for wins right up to Round 18.

Massa, meanwhile was told to back off (Korea), grid-dropped (Austin) and had to go slower at Interlagos when he might have even won the damn race or, at least, pressured Button more following the SC.

:down:


Still pushing all that, eh?

#49 schuey100

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 15:27

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.


Maybe he's fed up of Webber criticising the team and this is a shot across the bow? Who knows but I have little sympathy for Webber when he's been the one pushing his own agenda and playing team politics.



#50 F1matt

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 15:38

There might be a little reverse psychology here, Helmut Marko isn’t daft, nobody within red Bull is you can’t win the amount of titles in that amount of time by luck, Mark Webber clearly isn’t a driver who needs a friendly arm round his shoulder, he is more likely to be spurred on by someone questioning him from within the team, and maybe the senior management at red Bull use him to motivate Webber with this sort of interview, and wouldn’t be surprised if the bulk of what he is going to say is already set in stone.
Loved his comments about Enzo Ferrari, the season is months away but already he is putting the pressure on Stefano Dominicali and the Ferrari engineering staff.