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Marko hits out at Vettel Critics [split]


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#51 David1976

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 15:40

Marko comes across as a complete idiot.

And I concur with Stewart in that Vettel needs to prove his worth in a non-Newey car before he is considered a great - or even at the same ultimate performance level of Alonso and Hamilton.

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#52 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 15:52

Yet again, Marko just sounds like some Vettel fanboy to me, honestly. If you were to just read his comments(any of them) and not know who he was, I dont think anyone would guess he has some sort of professional role within the sport.

I really wont go into the criticism of his invidivual comments much. There's little point. Its just as much a waste of time giving his comments the time of day as it is some forum fanboy. I doubt people within the sport even take him seriously anymore.

Edited by Seanspeed, 08 January 2013 - 15:54.


#53 pRy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 15:54

And I concur with Stewart in that Vettel needs to prove his worth in a non-Newey car before he is considered a great - or even at the same ultimate performance level of Alonso and Hamilton.


Was Schumacher's talent questioned because he had such a long relationship with a winning combination of Bryne, Todt and Brawn? End of the day drivers can only use the tools they have. Vettel has won with two teams (Toro Rosso, Redbull) and won three titles with the most successful of those team relationships. I'd say he's doing pretty well for himself. Yes there is the Newey factor and one day perhaps we'll find out how he does with another team, but I see nothing that Hamilton achieved at McLaren which eclipses what Vettel has achieved at Redbull.

Edited by pRy, 08 January 2013 - 15:55.


#54 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:11

And I concur with Stewart in that Vettel needs to prove his worth in a non-Newey car before he is considered a great - or even at the same ultimate performance level of Alonso and Hamilton.


A bit rubbish.

Stewart himself only won titles with Ken Tyrrell.

Clark only drove Chapman's Lotuses.

Schumacher only ever won using Byrne/Brawn cars.

And what about Senna? All three titles using Honda engines at McLaren over four seasons!

Hamilton barely won his one and only title in the year in which he drove into the back of Kimi's stationary Ferrari at a red light in the Montreal pit lane. His mind management skills were utterly abysmal in 2011.

Vettel's taken a hammer to the Alonso-Hamilton Axis and bashed them in...and their fans don't like it.

I rate Vettel as the best and he'll be around for another 10 years. Can't say that about Nando, for instance.

#55 03011969

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:16

Red Bull must be among the most disingenuous of teams in F1, if not the most.

I have respect for their achievements, but the way they cry foul at everybody else whilst pretending to be holier-than-thou leaves a rather unpleasant taste.

#56 Sakae

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:22

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.

I would not be surprised to learn, that in final phases of 2012 season it was made clear by management to both drivers what the expectations and hopes for finale are. From later comments I came to believe, that Webber didn't get that message, thus today I am not completely uncomfortable with Dr. Marko"s comments. As for the Webber, I would say, mate, you think you can dish it out, now in return you have to be strong enough to dish it in. That's life in a fast lane.

#57 goingthedistance

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:24

Maybe he's fed up of Webber criticising the team and this is a shot across the bow? Who knows but I have little sympathy for Webber when he's been the one pushing his own agenda and playing team politics.


When did Webber criticise the team? Seems to be all one way traffic to me.

#58 ayali

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:29

I doubt people within the sport even take him seriously anymore.

I bet the smart ones do, if only for the fact that he effectively controls 2 teams in the paddock.

What did Niki Lauda say last week about Dr Marko?

Wasn't it that he sees Helmut Marko as a role model and that "if all worked as Red Bull do in formula 1, then they would all be much more successful".
:lol:


#59 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:42

I bet the smart ones do, if only for the fact that he effectively controls 2 teams in the paddock.

I dont see how that matters.

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#60 PretentiousBread

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:55

I don't think Dr Marko is "moaning" about Nando.

Dr Marko is, basically, criticizing Nando for being way too involved in media/internet musings and in the politics of 'bigging' himself up and not focusing enough on driving.

Vettel, in comparison, shut up and drove the wheels off the Red Bull, crushing Webber after the break and pulling back the huge 40+ point lead Nando had on him.

Vettel put his head down and drove.

Nando, meanwhile, was bigging himself up, bigging Hamilton up, bigging up Newey/i.e. trashing Vettel (...and trashing his own engineers) and got involved in disagreements with Pat Fry who suggested he (Nando) wasn't getting enough out of qualifying ... as proven by Massa in the final races.

I don't see how Marko has said anything new.

We never herd a peep from Vettel on Twitter.

Hamilton and Nando could learn a thing or two from the young Triple World Champion:

1...Shut The F*** Up And Drive!!!

2...Stop tweeting like a bloody idiot!!!

Is it any wonder why Vettel's got 3 Championships whilst Nando and Lewis don't - and with more seasons under their belts (especially Nando)?


Yes I agree, Hamilton and Alonso's occasionally questionable usage of social media must be the reason why they haven't won more championships. Circumstances and machinery also had a small impact I admit, but more importantly they shouldn't be tweeting like bloody idiots! :mad: :mad: :mad:

#61 pRy

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:57

Red Bull must be among the most disingenuous of teams in F1, if not the most.

I have respect for their achievements, but the way they cry foul at everybody else whilst pretending to be holier-than-thou leaves a rather unpleasant taste.


I can understand why they (Marko in particular) gets upset. They're constantly accused of cheating in whispers, when in reality they just employ a very smart aero guy. Their entire success is pinned on Newey, when it's a larger team effort. Their success is viewed as almost unwanted in the sport, which is crazy when you consider where the team came from and what they've achieved. They won the title yet people still pointed fingers at Vettel and tried desperately to find a reason to strip him of it. There are constant rumours Vettel is leaving the team which you do have to admit seem to crop up just when it suits Ferrari.

I don't enjoy one team dominating in the way Redbull does but I can still see why they feel unhappy with some of the things that go on. They're the team a lot of people seem to enjoy kicking and I think most of that is just because of the good job they're doing. I'm not a huge Marko fan but I can understand the things he says.


#62 goingthedistance

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 16:58

Nando tweets back:

Fernando Alonso ‏@alo_oficial
I enjoy reading that redbull still think we will be the strongest rival for next year! And this even before start testing!! Flattered..;)

#63 noikeee

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:16

Nando tweets back:

Fernando Alonso ‏@alo_oficial
I enjoy reading that redbull still think we will be the strongest rival for next year! And this even before start testing!! Flattered..;)


That's refreshing actually, a bit of banter between the 2 camps. I like this.

#64 fabr68

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:22

Flawless drives do not involve making mistakes, earning several penalties and crashing with backmarkers.

Seriously, lets talk about being political while at the same time trashtalk one of your own drivers. Whatever Alonso did worked on the psychological level because Marko sounds indeed quite rattled by what others say.

Edited by fabr68, 08 January 2013 - 17:24.


#65 Group B

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:26

I can understand why they (Marko in particular) gets upset. They're constantly accused of cheating in whispers, when in reality they just employ a very smart aero guy. Their entire success is pinned on Newey, when it's a larger team effort. Their success is viewed as almost unwanted in the sport, which is crazy when you consider where the team came from and what they've achieved. They won the title yet people still pointed fingers at Vettel and tried desperately to find a reason to strip him of it. There are constant rumours Vettel is leaving the team which you do have to admit seem to crop up just when it suits Ferrari.

I don't enjoy one team dominating in the way Redbull does but I can still see why they feel unhappy with some of the things that go on. They're the team a lot of people seem to enjoy kicking and I think most of that is just because of the good job they're doing. I'm not a huge Marko fan but I can understand the things he says.

The price of success. If you win over extended period resentment builds and the accusations follow. Little things that would otherwise barely raise an eyebrow are leapt upon and clung to like a hungry dog with it's last bone as certain elements of other teams and their supporters try to convince the world (and themselves) that they can't be getting such a prolonged beating fairly.

#66 H2H

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:35

That's refreshing actually, a bit of banter between the 2 camps. I like this.


Note what I said before. Marko plays this game mostly for RBR. Alonso mostly for Ferrari. And Vettel stays pretty much out of it and focuses on his job and winning.

Brilliant task and role division by RBR with Mr. Bad Guy aka Dr. Marko. So far it worked very well indeed.

BTW: Now Autosport runs the story. Marko certainly helps our dear press, as I wrote earlier. How predictable the world sometimes is...

Edited by H2H, 08 January 2013 - 17:41.


#67 bub

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:39

Yet again, Marko just sounds like some Vettel fanboy to me, honestly. If you were to just read his comments(any of them) and not know who he was, I dont think anyone would guess he has some sort of professional role within the sport.

I really wont go into the criticism of his invidivual comments much. There's little point. Its just as much a waste of time giving his comments the time of day as it is some forum fanboy. I doubt people within the sport even take him seriously anymore.


Pretty much read my mind. I don't agree with much of what Marko said and I think the comments about Webber were uncalled for and not constructive.


#68 prty

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:39

Note what I said before. Marko plays this game mostly for RBR. Alonso mostly for Ferrari. And Vettel stays mostly out of it and focuses on his job and wins.


Having a Newey car might have more to do with it. Wait, no, it must be because he doesn't tweet :blush:

#69 P123

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:46

This is just Marko being Vettel's little yappy attack dog. Vettel's championship rival, his teammate and his critics all getting a verbal volley. Marko's Red Bull junior programme has found one gem, and he'll defend that to the end. Meanwhile, Horner gets on with running the team.

#70 H2H

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 17:47

Having a Newey car might have more to do with it. Wait, no, it must be because he doesn't tweet :blush:


I will repeat it again for you:

Note what I said before. Marko plays this game mostly for RBR. Alonso mostly for Ferrari. And Vettel stays pretty much out of it and focuses on his job and winning.


The bit about the focus is the key part. Mental and political games and a celebrity life style don't help in this regard.

It is just a part of the many ingredients, but in F1 every single element counts.

All in all Marko does a fine job at playing the game for RBR.

Edited by H2H, 08 January 2013 - 17:48.


#71 bub

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:09

The bit about the focus is the key part. Mental and political games and a celebrity life style don't help in this regard.


Every professional has time off. If they spend this time tweeting or living a celebrity lifestyle, I dont see how it would effect their on track performance. If they are playing mental and political games it may actually distract their rivals, thereby helping them. It may not work but I think what's the harm in trying?


#72 Kingshark

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:18

Still haven't gotten to actually watch back the season, have you?

Yes I have, very thoroughly too. :stoned:

All I saw was Vettel, in a Red Bull which was equal to Mclaren on pace, and only slightly behind Ferrari in reliability, very nearly throwing the championship away.

Funny thing is that even in your own thread, you confess that Hamilton would've beaten Vettel if it wasn't for the misfortunes. :lol:

Regarding his mental focus, Vettel's mentality is so unmatched that this season, he choked more often than Alonso and Hamilton combined. :rolleyes:

Edited by Kingshark, 08 January 2013 - 18:23.


#73 LiJu914

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:27

All I saw was Vettel, in a Red Bull which was equal to Mclaren on pace, and only slightly behind Ferrari in reliability, very nearly throwing the championship away.

Regarding his mental focus, Vettel's mentality is so unmatched that this season, he choked more often than Alonso and Hamilton combined. :rolleyes:


Button and Webber must be two of the poorest drivers of the grid...finishing almost 100 points behind, despite having the same chances as Vettel to win the WDC, who himself was oh so unconvincing and error prone.

#74 prty

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:29

I will repeat it again for you:



The bit about the focus is the key part. Mental and political games and a celebrity life style don't help in this regard.

It is just a part of the many ingredients, but in F1 every single element counts.

All in all Marko does a fine job at playing the game for RBR.


Still I don't see how Vettel is more focused than other drivers.

Also I don't see how he is less political. "It's stupid how easy it is to overtake with DRS these days" - If that's not politics nothing is. Or overcooking the pushing out of Alonso in Monza, because of what happened the year before. The attempts at politics don't have to be good...

Edited by prty, 08 January 2013 - 18:35.


#75 Kingshark

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:40

Button and Webber must be two of the poorest drivers of the grid...finishing almost 100 points behind, despite having the same chances as Vettel to win the WDC, who himself was oh so unconvincing and error prone.

First of all, I didn't say Vettel was error prone, I merely pointed out that Vettel made more mistakes than Alonso and Hamilton combined, which is not necessarily that much.

Also, both Webber and Button did under perform their cars for a certain period of time. Button from Bahrain to Britain, Webber from Germany to the end of the season, really.

Marko's comment about Vettel having superior mental focus, just like most of his other rants, is horsecrap. :rolleyes:

Edited by Kingshark, 08 January 2013 - 18:41.


#76 LiJu914

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:44

^^
Fair enough.

My post was mainly based on that remark of yours:

..very nearly throwing the championship away.

..which "sounded" quite negative.

Edited by LiJu914, 08 January 2013 - 18:45.


#77 TigersWood

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:58

Marko comes across as a complete idiot.

And I concur with Stewart in that Vettel needs to prove his worth in a non-Newey car before he is considered a great - or even at the same ultimate performance level of Alonso and Hamilton.



Couldn't agree more.

#78 handel

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 18:58

Maybe he's fed up of Webber criticising the team and this is a shot across the bow? Who knows but I have little sympathy for Webber when he's been the one pushing his own agenda and playing team politics.



Someone has already mentioned it, but can we get quotes on that?

I think it's disgraceful and somewhat inaccurate to say that Webber tailed off due to mechanical issues etc in the middle of last season. It's well documented that RBR made a step change that allowed Vettel to 'do more of what he wanted' with the car. He needs HUGE rear DF to do his thing wheras Webber is from an era that did not have that. That's not a criticism, but it is interesting.

#79 LiJu914

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:06

He needs HUGE rear DF to do his thing wheras Webber is from an era that did not have that. That's not a criticism, but it is interesting.


Why did Vettel then prefer the exhaust configuration in China, which had less nominal downforce than the one, Webber used? In fact it wasn´t even an EBD, which is allegedly his key to success...
It has become kind of a small myth that Vettel needs a very planted rear. In fact he can live with a looser rear than Webber, as far as it behaves consistent and predictable (which seemed to be the main issue for him, not the total downforce level in general).

Edited by LiJu914, 08 January 2013 - 19:12.


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#80 mnmracer

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:13

Yes I have, very thoroughly too. :stoned:

All I saw was Vettel, in a Red Bull which was equal to Mclaren on pace, and only slightly behind Ferrari in reliability, very nearly throwing the championship away.

Funny thing is that even in your own thread, you confess that Hamilton would've beaten Vettel if it wasn't for the misfortunes. :lol:

Regarding his mental focus, Vettel's mentality is so unmatched that this season, he choked more often than Alonso and Hamilton combined. :rolleyes:

Now if you could back up those statements with anything substantial, you might actually seem knowledgeable.
I can also go around claiming silly things like "Ferrari was actually the fastest car all year", but it's just stupid talk unless I back it up.

#81 prty

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:15

Why did Vettel then prefer the exhaust configuration in China, which had less nominal downforce than the one, Webber used? In fact it wasn´t even an EBD, which is allegedly his key to success...
It has become kind of a small myth that Vettel needs a very planted rear. In fact he can live with a looser rear than Webber, as far as it behaves consistent and predictable (which seemed to be the main issue for him, not the total downforce level in general).


What? Even he himself says that:

Vettel on the RB8:

It was important we kept believing and since the start of season we were fighting with our car, a car that wasn't similar to last year. I couldn't use my tricks or my style to make it work and manipulate it, I didn't have enough rear stability to work with the brakes and get car to corner/apex – we tried everything and I think at some stage we did a step that was big enough and in the right direction that allowed me to do more that I like.
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104593



#82 LiJu914

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:22

What? Even he himself says that:


No he doesn´t. Stability doesn´t necessarily mean more downforce.
Again: Why did he opt for the non-EBD version in China, which had less nominal downforce? Answer: He regarded it to be more predictable and gave him more confidence in the car (or "stable" if used for a subjective p.o.v.).
In 2011 there were plenty of reports regarding the performance gaps between Webber and Vettel, in which it was explained the way i did.
Vettel doesn´t like the on/off-effect of a pure EBD. The engine-overrun prevented that last year, but that has little to do with the particular downforce levels in general.

Edited by LiJu914, 08 January 2013 - 19:25.


#83 prty

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:30

No he doesn´t. Stability doesn´t necessarily mean more downforce.
Again: Why did he opt for the non-EBD version in China, which had less nominal downforce? Answer: He regarded it to be more predictable and gave him more confidence in the car. (or "stable" if used for a subjective p.o.v.).
In 2011 there were plenty of reports regarding the performance gaps between Webber and Vettel, in which it was explained the way i did.
Vettel doesn´t like the on/off-effect of a pure EBD. The engine-overrun prevented that last year, but that has little to do with the particular downforce levels in general.


He opted for the 2011 layout in hope of being able to drive like in 2011, because he couldn't drive the 2012 one as quick as Webber. All this while the 2012 solution was quicker, and time tells that they stuck with that one. This tells all you need to know...

Vettel does like the on/off effect of a pure EBD. It was explained (cba to look for it) that what he does is do a tremendously quick corner entry, and while a normal race car would show huge oversteer doing that, he kills it because the EBD/coanda/whatever you want to call it. When he can't do that, Webber starts beating him, or at the very least, match him.

#84 Sakae

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:30

Vettel I think become Marko's protégé when he did not have proper representation during his own contract negotiations, and basically tried to come with terms of the contract on his own (in his age). It was actually good of Mr. Marko when he ensured that Seb doesn't get shafted and kudos for what he has done for him. Webber, on the other hand is like a Trojan horse after having Briatore praising him for being the only one who has helped Ferrari (or tried), that has hardly helped to build trust. Webber made his own bed. Next, please…

Edited by Sakae, 08 January 2013 - 19:31.


#85 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:40

Marko's just trying to motivate Mark.And give Vettel his due.
Brazil must've really pissed him off.

Edited by InSearchOfThe, 08 January 2013 - 19:40.


#86 handel

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:43

Marko's just trying to motivate Mark.And give Vettel his due.
Brazil must've really pissed him off.


Dunno what motivates you at work, but someone winding you up and spreading mistruths about your performance doesn't work for me.

#87 Kingshark

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:48

Now if you could back up those statements with anything substantial, you might actually seem knowledgeable.
I can also go around claiming silly things like "Ferrari was actually the fastest car all year", but it's just stupid talk unless I back it up.

From a spectators point of view, reliability can easily be measured, pace is more difficult to judge but certainly not impossible.

However, since we've changed subject from Vettel's focus to the pecking order, I suggest you go here;

http://forums.autosp...w...0&start=240

#88 LiJu914

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 19:51

He opted for the 2011 layout in hope of being able to drive like in 2011, because he couldn't drive the 2012 one as quick as Webber. All this while the 2012 solution was quicker, and time tells that they stuck with that one. This tells all you need to know...


He didn´t opt for a 2011-version. He chose the winter-test version, which blew only the beam-wing (which has basically no exhaust blown downforce-effect) instead of the diffuser and never meant to be used for the actual season.

Vettel does like the on/off effect of a pure EBD. It was explained (cba to look for it) that what he does is do a tremendously quick corner entry, and while a normal race car would show huge oversteer doing that, he kills it because the EBD/coanda/whatever you want to call it. When he can't do that, Webber starts beating him, or at the very least, match him.


Again. This is inaccurate.
Yes, his style is based on a fast corner entry - but that has little to do with the general downforce level.
A "pure EBD" leads to a quite abrupt loss of downforce under braking, which can only be counterbalanced to a certain degree. Vettel prefers a more consistent/predictable downforce level to let the car slide a little into the corner. He has less confidence to do that, if the car changes balance too quickly - the engine overrun in 2011 prevented that. And btw. a car with no EBD at all does that too, which is why he preferred a non-EBD-version over the - for his taste - too aggressive Mk.1-EBD of 2012.

btw. Webber still beat him - performancewise - in only 3 races of the first half of 2012.

Edited by LiJu914, 08 January 2013 - 19:57.


#89 2ms

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 20:05

A lot of panties in knots here. Webber's a big boy. He knows his team can handle when he states his mind about them. I'm sure they know he can handle it when they state their's. There's nothing new here. If he was too sensitive for this kind of honesty, then he would have left the team years ago.

#90 joshb

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 20:26

Marko was spot on with pretty much everytohng, but whether he could have waited to say that about Webber is debatable

#91 plumtree

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 20:48

http://www.pitpass.c...200-Marko-talks A longer version. No idea if the original interview is any longer.

Some interesting bits that haven't been quoted.

Asked if it is better to have arch rivals or good buddies on the same team, Marko replies: "The important thing is that both are somewhere close in speed so that they push each other, and that the technical crews understand each car's limits. Almost all drivers have track preferences: better on one, less so on another. The better the driver, the smaller the variation. If you have two equally strong drivers, then you know where you stand with the car. For harmony within the team it is of course easier if the two get along. So in the meantime, we have found a modus vivendi.

"Sebastian and Mark work constructively together in tuning the cars: all information is freely available. They are not likely to go to dinner together, but that is how it is in most teams, and it's totally OK. Two alpha males can never really understand each other."

Asked about Mateschitz' role, Marko, who reports directly to the Red Bull boss, reveals: "If I tell him that it would be helpful if he showed up occasionally, then he does. A visit to the factory, or a racetrack, can work wonders for motivation. He is the greatest when it comes to motivation, he's knows exactly what to do.

"He came to two races in 2012: Barcelona and Monza. Afterwards, he thought it would be better if he didn't come any more, because those were precisely the two races that yielded the worst results. I wouldn't go so far as to say he is superstitious; let's just say he is more of a spiritual man. I know that Didi gets very excited and jittery when he watches a race on television, and he also knows very well the difference between bad luck and an error - how a performance looks over three races, and suchlike. If things are not going so well for us, he inspires us. Instead of venting, he says, "Don't worry!" not, "You must…" He'd rather say something uplifting and encouraging."



Edit: Presumably this is the printed version. "The Doctor is in session" http://en.espnf1.com...tory/98376.html

Edited by plumtree, 09 January 2013 - 20:28.


#92 rijole1

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 22:23

Darth Bane knew that the true power of the dark side lies in cunning and perfidy....and so does Dr. Helmut Marko.

:D Indeed, he knows Mr Marko.
Wonder what's the real name of the game this time? Hmm...

#93 Ian G

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 23:39

I think he's just making it clear,as far as he's concerned,that Mark won't be going around in 2014 for RB.Mark's close relationship with Horner & DM may mean that doesn't happen IF he has a good year.Another possible motive is that Marko is hoping another Team such as Lotus/Renault will make another play for him to drive in 2014 knowing he's on the outer so he can get rid of him.

#94 fer312t

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 23:56

A bit rubbish.

Stewart himself only won titles with Ken Tyrrell.

Clark only drove Chapman's Lotuses.

Schumacher only ever won using Byrne/Brawn cars.

And what about Senna? All three titles using Honda engines at McLaren over four seasons!

Hamilton barely won his one and only title in the year in which he drove into the back of Kimi's stationary Ferrari at a red light in the Montreal pit lane. His mind management skills were utterly abysmal in 2011.

Vettel's taken a hammer to the Alonso-Hamilton Axis and bashed them in...and their fans don't like it.

I rate Vettel as the best and he'll be around for another 10 years. Can't say that about Nando, for instance.


Actually your post is rubbish...Whatever one may say of Vettel, positive or negative, it is pretty much beyond question that nearly all those race wins have come in Adrian Newey machinery that are very much part of a unified line of cars (evolutionary designs within a relatively stable rules period.)

Stewart won races in BRMs, Marchs, Tyrrell in an very turblent era as far as design/aero development year to year...
Clark won races in all manner vehicles, and Chapman's designs often took radical design turns from previous models (comparing the Lotus 25 to the Lotus43, is quite a bit different than say,comparing the RB6 to the RB8)
Senna made waves in the Toleman, and had dominant poles and race wins with Lotus, and McLaren victories with customer Ford engines...

#95 Winter98

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 00:15

..., it is pretty much beyond question that nearly all those race wins have come in Adrian Newey machinery that are very much part of a unified line of cars (evolutionary designs within a relatively stable rules period.)


True, and it is beyond question that Vettel accomplished what only two other drivers in the history of F1 have accomplished: three WDCs on the trot.

Stewart won races in BRMs, Marchs, Tyrrell in an very turblent era as far as design/aero development year to year...
Clark won races in all manner vehicles, and Chapman's designs often took radical design turns from previous models (comparing the Lotus 25 to the Lotus43, is quite a bit different than say,comparing the RB6 to the RB8)
Senna made waves in the Toleman, and had dominant poles and race wins with Lotus, and McLaren victories with customer Ford engines...


And Vettel also won in a Toro Rosso.

It's hardly his fault he has won 3 WDCs in such short order, and hasn't been around long enough to have driven for a variety of teams.

#96 aditya-now

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 00:17

I don't expect that to happen at all.

This is not some off-the-cuff interview given to a random journo but an interview in Red Bulletin, "the official magazine from the world of Red Bull".
The interview surely has been read before publication by plenty of Red Bull PR types and they saw (like me) nothing wrong with it.

I agree it's not particularly helpful (other than maybe to motivate Webber to prove Marko wrong) but it's not a big deal really.
Dr Marko says it how he sees things and doesn't really beat around the bush, I quite like that and I have an idea that Mateschitz does so too :)


Having been published in Red Bull's court-magazine it surely is representative of Mateschitz's views as well. I admire Webbo for keeping a straight face and doing his craft so well. Let's not forget how instrumental he (and before him DC) was in bringing RBR on course.

#97 aditya-now

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 00:20

Nando tweets back:

Fernando Alonso ‏@alo_oficial
I enjoy reading that redbull still think we will be the strongest rival for next year! And this even before start testing!! Flattered..;)


Fernando taking it all in good humor!

Ace :up:

#98 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:06

Dunno what motivates you at work, but someone winding you up and spreading mistruths about your performance doesn't work for me.

What mistruths are you implying? HM merely stated things as he see's them. He gave Webber some due saying 2 races a year he's RBRs best driver,and needs to bring his game closer to Vettels level. Consistency is what he craves. He's right is some respect, Red Bull has been for 3 years the car to have and the team to beat. Putting a shot across MWs bow is to only let him know that others are ready to take that seat if he's not more of a team player. I call that cold, hard, truthful motivation that has to go on in the cut throat, what have you done for me lately world that is Formula1.

What motivates me is money.nookie, and song.

Edited by InSearchOfThe, 09 January 2013 - 01:08.


#99 genespleen

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:33

It's hard to disagree much, but I think it was inappropriate to discuss Webber in those terms while he still drives for them. Not that I think he is wrong in fact, but I would expect my bosses to defend me to the press and third parties and give me a solid kicking behind closed doors. What he's done here is poor management.


Yes, very much agree.

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#100 ViMaMo

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:39

Hulkenberg should avoid Red Bull if Vettel decides to stick around. Hitting out at Mark who did his best to aid Vettel is a bad sign.

Edited by ViMaMo, 09 January 2013 - 01:40.